• Portable jump start pack - recommendations please.

    From David@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 30 15:00:33 2025
    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two weeks
    ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand new
    battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by something.

    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that it
    could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a reliable
    jump start pack.

    Thanks



    Dave R


    --
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to David on Wed Apr 30 16:09:48 2025
    On 30/04/2025 16:00, David wrote:
    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two weeks
    ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand new battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by something.

    Bad battery connection or failed alternator


    I assume it wont crank.

    On charge battery voltage should be around 13.5-14V .

    Make sure the terminals are screwed down tight as starting current is a
    couple of hundred amps and it doesn't take much to block that completely


    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that it
    could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a reliable
    jump start pack.

    Well the motor home will have a leisure battery built in.

    If you really must get something with good reevews from Amazon


    --
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    can avoid it; the new culture tells us you should always take offence if
    you can. There are now experts in the art of taking offence, indeed
    whole academic subjects, such as 'gender studies', devoted to it.

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to David on Wed Apr 30 16:49:34 2025
    David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two weeks
    ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand new battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by something.

    What's the no-load voltage? Perhaps it had sat around and didn't have very much charge in it when supplied. Have you tried charging with an external charger?

    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that it
    could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a reliable
    jump start pack.

    I have a lithium pack from CPC which is ok, but the problem is that if the battery is feeling very sad (let's say at 8V or below) the lithium pack may discharge into the battery without being able to hold up enough current to
    also start the car. If the battery is at say 11.5V then it may do.

    (before anyone says, I've run lead acid batteries down to zero and then
    managed to charge them up enough to be usable again. Obviously don't do
    this as it's very bad for the battery, but eg if you left the lights on you
    can run it down to nothing and then might need to start the engine to get
    home)

    I don't think this is such a problem with jumping with a lead acid, as
    there's a lot more energy in there than a lithium pack and you can
    potentially run the car from the jump pack without the original battery.

    Theo

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  • From tony sayer@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 30 16:52:25 2025
    In article <m7es8hFe9nuU3@mid.individual.net>, David
    <wibble@btinternet.com> scribeth thus
    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two weeks
    ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand new >battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by something.

    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that it
    could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a reliable
    jump start pack.

    Thanks


    A 2016 batt would be well past it, but check the fan belt or whichever
    belt drives the alternator to see if its properly tensioned and
    therefore charging as well as it ought!..




    Dave R


    --
    AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 10 x64


    --
    Tony Sayer


    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

    Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

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  • From David@21:1/5 to John R Walliker on Thu May 1 08:43:19 2025
    On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 17:20:20 +0100, John R Walliker wrote:

    On 30/04/2025 16:52, tony sayer wrote:
    In article <m7es8hFe9nuU3@mid.individual.net>, David
    <wibble@btinternet.com> scribeth thus
    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two
    weeks ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand new
    battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by
    something.

    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that it
    could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be
    sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a
    reliable jump start pack.

    Thanks


    A 2016 batt would be well past it, but check the fan belt or whichever
    belt drives the alternator to see if its properly tensioned and
    therefore charging as well as it ought!..




    Dave R


    --
    AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 10 x64


    I bought one of these from Amazon about 6 years ago in a flash sale at a large discount.
    It still works well and has started various cars and diesel vans.
    The largest car engine was a 6.3l Ferrari FF with a totally sulphated battery. It did struggle with that but eventually started it.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B016UG6PWE

    NOCO Boost HD GB70 2000A UltraSafe Car Jump Starter, Jump Starter Power
    Pack, 12V Battery Booster, Portable Powerbank Charger, and Jump Leads
    for up to 8.0-Liter Petrol and 6.0-Liter Diesel Engines

    John

    Thanks.
    NOCO seems to be highly rated on various sites.

    Cheers



    Dave R


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  • From David@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu May 1 08:51:04 2025
    On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 16:09:48 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 30/04/2025 16:00, David wrote:
    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two weeks
    ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand new
    battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by
    something.

    Bad battery connection or failed alternator


    I assume it wont crank.

    On charge battery voltage should be around 13.5-14V .

    Make sure the terminals are screwed down tight as starting current is a couple of hundred amps and it doesn't take much to block that completely


    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that it
    could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be
    sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a reliable
    jump start pack.

    Well the motor home will have a leisure battery built in.

    If you really must get something with good reevews from Amazon



    It cranks, but the displayed voltage on the voltmeter rapidly drops below
    12V and the cranking stops.
    Presumably a safety measure.
    The voltmeter shows it charging at 14V when driving.

    The car is in the garage for other work, and fortunately (?) showed the
    failure when they tried to move it.
    So under investigation.

    The interesting thing is that this failure was diagnosed as an old battery
    so there is now a brand new battery in the car, fitted by the garage.

    I am wondering if the alternator is not running at full output, but
    wondering how that would generally manifest.
    It is delivering 14V.

    The battery (as shown via the voltmeter) has less charge now than when it
    was fitted.

    Testing across the battery terminals is difficult because the battery is
    under the passenger seat and you have to remove the seat to get at it.

    Cheers



    Dave R



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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to David on Thu May 1 09:56:34 2025
    David wrote:

    it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by something.

    To track down which fuse the parasitic load is on, a set of these
    multimeter leads can be handy (beware the miniature size fuses).

    <https://cpc.farnell.com/gunson/77068/automotive-fuse-adaptor-test-leads/dp/IN06332>

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  • From John Rumm@21:1/5 to David on Thu May 1 13:01:25 2025
    On 01/05/2025 09:43, David wrote:

    Thanks.
    NOCO seems to be highly rated on various sites.

    FWIW, I ordered one last week as it had been on my mid to do for a
    while, and was finally prompted by a flat battery in the lawn mower!
    (and I could not be arsed you jump start it from the car).


    --
    Cheers,

    John.

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  • From John Rumm@21:1/5 to David on Thu May 1 12:59:16 2025
    On 01/05/2025 09:51, David wrote:
    On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 16:09:48 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 30/04/2025 16:00, David wrote:
    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two weeks
    ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand new
    battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by
    something.

    Bad battery connection or failed alternator


    I assume it wont crank.

    On charge battery voltage should be around 13.5-14V .

    Make sure the terminals are screwed down tight as starting current is a
    couple of hundred amps and it doesn't take much to block that completely


    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that it
    could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be
    sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a reliable
    jump start pack.

    Well the motor home will have a leisure battery built in.

    If you really must get something with good reevews from Amazon



    It cranks, but the displayed voltage on the voltmeter rapidly drops below
    12V and the cranking stops.
    Presumably a safety measure.
    The voltmeter shows it charging at 14V when driving.

    The car is in the garage for other work, and fortunately (?) showed the failure when they tried to move it.
    So under investigation.

    The interesting thing is that this failure was diagnosed as an old battery
    so there is now a brand new battery in the car, fitted by the garage.

    I got the battery replaced in my previous car when it started showing
    signs of failure in cold weather. Turns out it still had the OEM battery
    in from when the car was new. It was 18 years old when replaced!


    --
    Cheers,

    John.

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  • From Sam Plusnet@21:1/5 to David on Thu May 1 20:29:34 2025
    On 01/05/2025 09:51, David wrote:
    On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 16:09:48 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 30/04/2025 16:00, David wrote:
    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two weeks
    ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand new
    battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by
    something.

    Bad battery connection or failed alternator


    I assume it wont crank.

    On charge battery voltage should be around 13.5-14V .

    Make sure the terminals are screwed down tight as starting current is a
    couple of hundred amps and it doesn't take much to block that completely


    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that it
    could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be
    sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a reliable
    jump start pack.

    Well the motor home will have a leisure battery built in.

    If you really must get something with good reevews from Amazon



    It cranks, but the displayed voltage on the voltmeter rapidly drops below
    12V and the cranking stops.
    Presumably a safety measure.
    The voltmeter shows it charging at 14V when driving.

    The car is in the garage for other work, and fortunately (?) showed the failure when they tried to move it.
    So under investigation.

    The interesting thing is that this failure was diagnosed as an old battery
    so there is now a brand new battery in the car, fitted by the garage.

    I am wondering if the alternator is not running at full output, but
    wondering how that would generally manifest.
    It is delivering 14V.

    The battery (as shown via the voltmeter) has less charge now than when it
    was fitted.

    Testing across the battery terminals is difficult because the battery is under the passenger seat and you have to remove the seat to get at it.


    Probably not relevant here, but when I had a similar problem many years
    back - I replaced the battery but that didn't solve the problem - I
    eventually discovered that the earth strap between the engine and the
    car body had degraded to the point where there was only a tiny number of strands left intact.

    That meant the alternator couldn't put any charge into the battery due
    to the high resistance path.
    A nice problem to have, on Christmas day, when travelling 200 miles to
    get home.


    --
    Sam Plusnet

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  • From David@21:1/5 to Sam Plusnet on Fri May 2 11:05:01 2025
    On Thu, 01 May 2025 20:29:34 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:

    On 01/05/2025 09:51, David wrote:
    On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 16:09:48 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 30/04/2025 16:00, David wrote:
    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two
    weeks ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand
    new battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by
    something.

    Bad battery connection or failed alternator


    I assume it wont crank.

    On charge battery voltage should be around 13.5-14V .

    Make sure the terminals are screwed down tight as starting current is
    a couple of hundred amps and it doesn't take much to block that
    completely


    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that
    it could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be
    sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a
    reliable jump start pack.

    Well the motor home will have a leisure battery built in.

    If you really must get something with good reevews from Amazon



    It cranks, but the displayed voltage on the voltmeter rapidly drops
    below 12V and the cranking stops.
    Presumably a safety measure.
    The voltmeter shows it charging at 14V when driving.

    The car is in the garage for other work, and fortunately (?) showed the
    failure when they tried to move it.
    So under investigation.

    The interesting thing is that this failure was diagnosed as an old
    battery so there is now a brand new battery in the car, fitted by the
    garage.

    I am wondering if the alternator is not running at full output, but
    wondering how that would generally manifest.
    It is delivering 14V.

    The battery (as shown via the voltmeter) has less charge now than when
    it was fitted.

    Testing across the battery terminals is difficult because the battery
    is under the passenger seat and you have to remove the seat to get at
    it.


    Probably not relevant here, but when I had a similar problem many years
    back - I replaced the battery but that didn't solve the problem - I eventually discovered that the earth strap between the engine and the
    car body had degraded to the point where there was only a tiny number of strands left intact.

    That meant the alternator couldn't put any charge into the battery due
    to the high resistance path.
    A nice problem to have, on Christmas day, when travelling 200 miles to
    get home.

    Garage diagnosed a faulty crank sensor, which they think could have
    stopped it cranking over before it could get going.
    We shall see.

    Now on long term charge in the drive with a smart(?) charger.
    I don't think it chucks out a vast amount of charge, but is very good for maintaining battery condition.

    I will have to dig around in the store of motoring related things to see
    if there is a more powerful charger to get it up near fully charged in a shorter time.

    I am still not 100% sure that there isn't another fault hanging around in
    there somewhere.

    How do you diagnose an under performing earth strap apart from by
    inspection?

    Cheers



    Dave R



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  • From David@21:1/5 to David on Fri May 2 11:38:08 2025
    On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 15:00:33 +0000, David wrote:

    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two weeks
    ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand new battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by
    something.

    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that it
    could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be
    sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a reliable
    jump start pack.

    Bought a NOCO GBX45 off Amazon.
    Interesting looking bit of kit.
    It came mostly charged.
    It doesn't come with a charger.
    I haven't read the manual yet, but the picture on the front says 10W USB A
    out, and 60W USB C in.

    It looks as though it needs a USB C charger capable of chucking out 60W if
    you want to be able to use it twice without waiting a long time for it to charge.

    I do have one fast charger, but as it is for a Realme Pro phone I don't
    think it uses the ususal fast charging protocol.

    No manual - need to look on line.

    Interesting times ahead, as usual.

    Hopefully I can find a fast charger which is compatible with my Samsung
    Galaxy Tab A8 and the NOCO.
    NOCO uses Power Delivery 3.0.

    Cheers




    Dave R


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  • From Adrian Caspersz@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Fri May 2 12:26:23 2025
    On 01/05/2025 09:56, Andy Burns wrote:
    David wrote:

    it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by something.

    To track down which fuse the parasitic load is on, a set of these
    multimeter leads can be handy (beware the miniature size fuses).

    <https://cpc.farnell.com/gunson/77068/automotive-fuse-adaptor-test- leads/dp/IN06332>


    On a VW Polo that was draining its battery unattended, I found something
    was constantly energising the windscreen wiper motor to move over to the
    rest position.

    To chase that parasitic load, I put a DMM in series with a fully charged battery, and then promptly burnt myself touching the meter leads, such
    was the high current it was then pulling.

    Bought a clamp meter that did DC current (hall sensor) soon after.

    --
    Adrian C

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to David on Fri May 2 13:03:16 2025
    On 02/05/2025 12:05, David wrote:
    On Thu, 01 May 2025 20:29:34 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:

    On 01/05/2025 09:51, David wrote:
    On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 16:09:48 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 30/04/2025 16:00, David wrote:
    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two
    weeks ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand
    new battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by
    something.

    Bad battery connection or failed alternator


    I assume it wont crank.

    On charge battery voltage should be around 13.5-14V .

    Make sure the terminals are screwed down tight as starting current is
    a couple of hundred amps and it doesn't take much to block that
    completely


    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that
    it could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be
    sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a
    reliable jump start pack.

    Well the motor home will have a leisure battery built in.

    If you really must get something with good reevews from Amazon



    It cranks, but the displayed voltage on the voltmeter rapidly drops
    below 12V and the cranking stops.
    Presumably a safety measure.
    The voltmeter shows it charging at 14V when driving.

    The car is in the garage for other work, and fortunately (?) showed the
    failure when they tried to move it.
    So under investigation.

    The interesting thing is that this failure was diagnosed as an old
    battery so there is now a brand new battery in the car, fitted by the
    garage.

    I am wondering if the alternator is not running at full output, but
    wondering how that would generally manifest.
    It is delivering 14V.

    The battery (as shown via the voltmeter) has less charge now than when
    it was fitted.

    Testing across the battery terminals is difficult because the battery
    is under the passenger seat and you have to remove the seat to get at
    it.


    Probably not relevant here, but when I had a similar problem many years
    back - I replaced the battery but that didn't solve the problem - I
    eventually discovered that the earth strap between the engine and the
    car body had degraded to the point where there was only a tiny number of
    strands left intact.

    That meant the alternator couldn't put any charge into the battery due
    to the high resistance path.
    A nice problem to have, on Christmas day, when travelling 200 miles to
    get home.

    Garage diagnosed a faulty crank sensor, which they think could have
    stopped it cranking over before it could get going.
    We shall see.

    Crank sensors is equivalent to removing the distributor from an old
    fashioned engine

    Definitte crank, no start.

    Now on long term charge in the drive with a smart(?) charger.
    I don't think it chucks out a vast amount of charge, but is very good for maintaining battery condition.

    I will have to dig around in the store of motoring related things to see
    if there is a more powerful charger to get it up near fully charged in a shorter time.

    I am still not 100% sure that there isn't another fault hanging around in there somewhere.

    Crank sensor shouldnt flatten battery

    How do you diagnose an under performing earth strap apart from by
    inspection?

    Measure voltage between the battery negative and earth with the engine
    running

    Cheers



    Dave R




    --
    There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
    that sound good.

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to David on Fri May 2 13:49:54 2025
    David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
    I haven't read the manual yet, but the picture on the front says 10W USB A out, and 60W USB C in.

    It looks as though it needs a USB C charger capable of chucking out 60W if you want to be able to use it twice without waiting a long time for it to charge.

    I do have one fast charger, but as it is for a Realme Pro phone I don't
    think it uses the ususal fast charging protocol.

    It's possible it wants to charge from 20V (60W = 20V @ 3A) which might mean
    it won't charge at all from a phone charger. Depends whether the internal charging circuit can step up the voltage or just step down.

    Theo

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  • From David@21:1/5 to Theo on Fri May 2 13:18:33 2025
    On Fri, 02 May 2025 13:49:54 +0100, Theo wrote:

    David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
    I haven't read the manual yet, but the picture on the front says 10W
    USB A out, and 60W USB C in.

    It looks as though it needs a USB C charger capable of chucking out 60W
    if you want to be able to use it twice without waiting a long time for
    it to charge.

    I do have one fast charger, but as it is for a Realme Pro phone I don't
    think it uses the ususal fast charging protocol.

    It's possible it wants to charge from 20V (60W = 20V @ 3A) which might
    mean it won't charge at all from a phone charger. Depends whether the internal charging circuit can step up the voltage or just step down.

    Theo

    Charged OK from whatever is in the 13A + USB A sockets installed 12-13
    years ago.

    I am currently in a minefield trying to establish which of my many devices
    are compatible.

    I have Anker and uGreen cigar lighter socket chargers which claim to be
    fast chargers.
    A bit coy on which variants of signalling they support.
    Mention compatible cables - but my raft of USB cables don't seem to have
    that information on them.

    Now looking at a Dell Laptop which has a USB C port which accepts charging
    from a Power Delivery charger, but doesn.t say if the supplied charger
    supports Power Delivery.

    I am hoping that most/all charger support the basic Power Delivery
    standards and I just need to make sure I have the correct USB cable.
    Then label it clearly.

    Ho hum.


    Dave R


    --
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  • From Joe@21:1/5 to David on Fri May 2 16:58:08 2025
    On 2 May 2025 11:05:01 GMT
    David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 01 May 2025 20:29:34 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:

    On 01/05/2025 09:51, David wrote:
    On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 16:09:48 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 30/04/2025 16:00, David wrote:
    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two
    weeks ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a
    brand new battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by
    something.

    Bad battery connection or failed alternator


    I assume it wont crank.

    On charge battery voltage should be around 13.5-14V .

    Make sure the terminals are screwed down tight as starting
    current is a couple of hundred amps and it doesn't take much to
    block that completely


    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests
    that it could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be
    sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a
    reliable jump start pack.

    Well the motor home will have a leisure battery built in.

    If you really must get something with good reevews from Amazon



    It cranks, but the displayed voltage on the voltmeter rapidly drops
    below 12V and the cranking stops.
    Presumably a safety measure.
    The voltmeter shows it charging at 14V when driving.

    The car is in the garage for other work, and fortunately (?)
    showed the failure when they tried to move it.
    So under investigation.

    The interesting thing is that this failure was diagnosed as an old
    battery so there is now a brand new battery in the car, fitted by
    the garage.

    I am wondering if the alternator is not running at full output, but
    wondering how that would generally manifest.
    It is delivering 14V.

    The battery (as shown via the voltmeter) has less charge now than
    when it was fitted.

    Testing across the battery terminals is difficult because the
    battery is under the passenger seat and you have to remove the
    seat to get at it.


    Probably not relevant here, but when I had a similar problem many
    years back - I replaced the battery but that didn't solve the
    problem - I eventually discovered that the earth strap between the
    engine and the car body had degraded to the point where there was
    only a tiny number of strands left intact.

    That meant the alternator couldn't put any charge into the battery
    due to the high resistance path.
    A nice problem to have, on Christmas day, when travelling 200 miles
    to get home.

    Garage diagnosed a faulty crank sensor, which they think could have
    stopped it cranking over before it could get going.
    We shall see.

    Now on long term charge in the drive with a smart(?) charger.
    I don't think it chucks out a vast amount of charge, but is very good
    for maintaining battery condition.

    I will have to dig around in the store of motoring related things to
    see if there is a more powerful charger to get it up near fully
    charged in a shorter time.

    I am still not 100% sure that there isn't another fault hanging
    around in there somewhere.

    How do you diagnose an under performing earth strap apart from by
    inspection?


    I had one completely broken between engine and body. It wasn't in the
    battery path so there were no easy clues, it just caused the
    speedometer to swing around wildly and intermittently. It turned out
    that ignition pulses were crosstalking into the speed pulses. I found
    that out with the car on axle stands, the wheels turning, the dashboard
    pulled out and an oscilloscope on the passenger seat. I got some funny
    looks from passers-by.

    Crosstalk? Start looking for earth trouble. It had broken because it
    had been too short and was under strain. Fortunately, I had a chunk of
    earth braid from previous car adventures, as well as the two 140W Weller soldering guns necessary to solder the stuff.

    --
    Joe

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  • From David@21:1/5 to David on Fri May 2 16:16:21 2025
    On Fri, 02 May 2025 11:05:01 +0000, David wrote:

    On Thu, 01 May 2025 20:29:34 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:

    On 01/05/2025 09:51, David wrote:
    On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 16:09:48 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 30/04/2025 16:00, David wrote:
    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two
    weeks ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand
    new battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by
    something.

    Bad battery connection or failed alternator


    I assume it wont crank.

    On charge battery voltage should be around 13.5-14V .

    Make sure the terminals are screwed down tight as starting current is
    a couple of hundred amps and it doesn't take much to block that
    completely


    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that
    it could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be
    sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a
    reliable jump start pack.

    Well the motor home will have a leisure battery built in.

    If you really must get something with good reevews from Amazon



    It cranks, but the displayed voltage on the voltmeter rapidly drops
    below 12V and the cranking stops.
    Presumably a safety measure.
    The voltmeter shows it charging at 14V when driving.

    The car is in the garage for other work, and fortunately (?) showed
    the failure when they tried to move it.
    So under investigation.

    The interesting thing is that this failure was diagnosed as an old
    battery so there is now a brand new battery in the car, fitted by the
    garage.

    I am wondering if the alternator is not running at full output, but
    wondering how that would generally manifest.
    It is delivering 14V.

    The battery (as shown via the voltmeter) has less charge now than when
    it was fitted.

    Testing across the battery terminals is difficult because the battery
    is under the passenger seat and you have to remove the seat to get at
    it.


    Probably not relevant here, but when I had a similar problem many years
    back - I replaced the battery but that didn't solve the problem - I
    eventually discovered that the earth strap between the engine and the
    car body had degraded to the point where there was only a tiny number
    of strands left intact.

    That meant the alternator couldn't put any charge into the battery due
    to the high resistance path.
    A nice problem to have, on Christmas day, when travelling 200 miles to
    get home.

    Garage diagnosed a faulty crank sensor, which they think could have
    stopped it cranking over before it could get going.
    We shall see.

    Now on long term charge in the drive with a smart(?) charger.
    I don't think it chucks out a vast amount of charge, but is very good
    for maintaining battery condition.

    I will have to dig around in the store of motoring related things to see
    if there is a more powerful charger to get it up near fully charged in a shorter time.

    I am still not 100% sure that there isn't another fault hanging around
    in there somewhere.

    How do you diagnose an under performing earth strap apart from by
    inspection?

    Dug out my old (allegedly) 8A charger (old is well pre metrication, AFAIK).
    It still works, but is only reporting 4A charging.

    My dodgy arithmetic suggests that at 4A per hour it is putting in 4 Amp
    Hours of charge.

    That doesn't sound a lot for a large battery that cranks a 3 litre diesel.

    Unreliable lookup suggests around 77 Ah capacity for the battery.
    Call it 80 Ah just to simplify the arithmetic.

    Assuming 80% charge it would need 80 - (80X.8) = 16 Ah to fully charge.
    That doesn't look too bad.
    Charged from 80% in 4 hours, I think.

    However: <https://www.screwfix.com/c/auto-cleaning/car-battery-chargers/cat12010001? sort_by=price>
    seems to offer much more powerful chargers.

    There is also a very confusing maximum engine size, where for example a 6A charger shows maximum size 1.6l.
    The same reported charging rate (such as 6A) also shows as 1.6l, 3l, etc.

    So I am wondering if my ancient charger is suitable, or if I need
    something beefier.


    Compared to Screwfix, Amazon is very cheap <https://www.amazon.co.uk/Automatic-Temperature-Compensation-Motorcycle- Batteries-Red/dp/B094VQ88X2/>
    However I don't recognise the brand.

    Bottom line, is it time to invest in a new charger?


    After not needing one for a long, long time (decades) I am suddenly in a
    world of pain.

    Cheers



    Dave R


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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to David on Fri May 2 17:52:44 2025
    David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
    Dug out my old (allegedly) 8A charger (old is well pre metrication, AFAIK). It still works, but is only reporting 4A charging.

    My dodgy arithmetic suggests that at 4A per hour it is putting in 4 Amp
    Hours of charge.

    That doesn't sound a lot for a large battery that cranks a 3 litre diesel.

    Unreliable lookup suggests around 77 Ah capacity for the battery.
    Call it 80 Ah just to simplify the arithmetic.

    Assuming 80% charge it would need 80 - (80X.8) = 16 Ah to fully charge.
    That doesn't look too bad.
    Charged from 80% in 4 hours, I think.

    However: <https://www.screwfix.com/c/auto-cleaning/car-battery-chargers/cat12010001? sort_by=price>
    seems to offer much more powerful chargers.

    There is also a very confusing maximum engine size, where for example a 6A charger shows maximum size 1.6l.
    The same reported charging rate (such as 6A) also shows as 1.6l, 3l, etc.

    So I am wondering if my ancient charger is suitable, or if I need
    something beefier.

    Is your old charger the kind with analogue volt/ammeters?

    I have one of those ('Unipart' branded). There are two problems. The first
    is that it's a pretty crude lump where the charging current is limited by
    the iron transformer they put in it. If the battery is flat then the
    current goes up to maximum, but if the battery has some charge it in the current tails off quite rapidly.

    The other is that there's no end of charge termination (aside from the
    current dropping off) so it's possible to overcharge batteries if you leave
    it on too long.

    I switched to a modern charger (Lidl's 'Ultimate Speed' 4A, about £15) and it's much better - I can select a setting for AGM and leave it, eventually it'll complete and end up in float charge. Looks like this (this one's 5A):

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/267229577307

    It's not very quick - needs leaving on about 24h to charge from empty to
    full (~50Ah battery) but you pay a lot more money for a much faster charger.

    Keep the old charger in case you have a battery that goes to zero, at which point the smart chargers won't touch it. The dumb charger gives it just
    enough charge to get it going. It's very bad for the battery to zero it,
    but I've recovered from it a few times and got the battery to limp on for a
    bit longer.

    Compared to Screwfix, Amazon is very cheap <https://www.amazon.co.uk/Automatic-Temperature-Compensation-Motorcycle- Batteries-Red/dp/B094VQ88X2/>
    However I don't recognise the brand.

    Can't speak for that one, but when I looked at teardown videos a lot of the no-brand Chinesium chargers had poor power supplies - insufficient isolation between the mains and 12V sides.

    I went for the Lidl because their stuff tends to be fairly dependable.

    Bottom line, is it time to invest in a new charger?

    Yes.

    Theo

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  • From David@21:1/5 to David on Sat May 3 13:31:33 2025
    On Fri, 02 May 2025 13:18:33 +0000, David wrote:

    On Fri, 02 May 2025 13:49:54 +0100, Theo wrote:

    David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
    I haven't read the manual yet, but the picture on the front says 10W
    USB A out, and 60W USB C in.

    It looks as though it needs a USB C charger capable of chucking out
    60W if you want to be able to use it twice without waiting a long time
    for it to charge.

    I do have one fast charger, but as it is for a Realme Pro phone I
    don't think it uses the ususal fast charging protocol.

    It's possible it wants to charge from 20V (60W = 20V @ 3A) which might
    mean it won't charge at all from a phone charger. Depends whether the
    internal charging circuit can step up the voltage or just step down.

    Theo

    Charged OK from whatever is in the 13A + USB A sockets installed 12-13
    years ago.

    I am currently in a minefield trying to establish which of my many
    devices are compatible.

    I have Anker and uGreen cigar lighter socket chargers which claim to be
    fast chargers.
    A bit coy on which variants of signalling they support.
    Mention compatible cables - but my raft of USB cables don't seem to have
    that information on them.

    Now looking at a Dell Laptop which has a USB C port which accepts
    charging from a Power Delivery charger, but doesn.t say if the supplied charger supports Power Delivery.

    I am hoping that most/all charger support the basic Power Delivery
    standards and I just need to make sure I have the correct USB cable.
    Then label it clearly.

    Unable to resist investigation, I have bought a new USB charger which
    allegedly goes up to 100W, which comes with its own cable, and a USB C
    tester gizzmo.

    The plan is to establish a baseline of a device which accepts fast
    charging and then work my way through my USB cables to find which ones are compatible.

    Then I test the cigar lighter cables to see which of those deliver what
    they claim.

    Then I should have a small pool of technology suitable for fast charging.

    I have already established that my Samsung Galaxy Tab A will recognise the
    fast charger.

    Onwards and upwards!

    Although I am noting that most of my cables are USB A -> USB C which won't support fast charging.

    Cheers



    Dave R



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  • From David@21:1/5 to Theo on Sat May 3 13:41:27 2025
    On Fri, 02 May 2025 17:52:44 +0100, Theo wrote:

    David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
    <snip>

    I switched to a modern charger (Lidl's 'Ultimate Speed' 4A, about £15)
    and it's much better - I can select a setting for AGM and leave it, eventually it'll complete and end up in float charge. Looks like this
    (this one's 5A):

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/267229577307

    It's not very quick - needs leaving on about 24h to charge from empty to
    full (~50Ah battery) but you pay a lot more money for a much faster
    charger.
    <snip>

    Very useful thanks.

    I have a smart(er) charger but that only delivers about 1.9A (the label is pretty much indecipherable).
    So if I want to step up in the charging stakes I would aim for more than
    4A.

    Returning to my question about charging rate, in crude terms your 4A
    charger (assuming 4A over an hour = 4Ah) takes around 24 hours to fully
    charge a 50 Ah battery.
    This would map to 36 hours for a 75 Ah battery.

    4A over 24 hours should theoretically provide 96 Ah.
    Although a smart charger should charge fast for the main part, then taper
    off a lot for the final part of the charge.
    Much like fast charging on a mobile phone, I assume.

    This moves the question slightly to "what peak rate should I aim for" in
    an intelligent charger.

    All interesting (and possibly expensive) stuff.

    Cheers



    Dave R

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  • From David@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Sat May 3 15:10:43 2025
    On Thu, 01 May 2025 09:56:34 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

    David wrote:

    it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by something.

    To track down which fuse the parasitic load is on, a set of these
    multimeter leads can be handy (beware the miniature size fuses).

    <https://cpc.farnell.com/gunson/77068/automotive-fuse-adaptor-test-leads/
    dp/IN06332>

    Thanks.
    That looks to be a generally useful tool.

    Cheers





    Dave R

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  • From David@21:1/5 to David on Sat May 3 15:23:38 2025
    On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 15:00:33 +0000, David wrote:

    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two weeks
    ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand new battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by
    something.

    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that it
    could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be
    sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a reliable
    jump start pack.

    This thread has prompted another thought.

    I have a motor home with 2 lead acid leisure batteries, an on board
    charger, and a solar panel on the roof.

    Assume that I want to charge my car battery fully, not jump start it,
    would connecting jump leads between the car battery and the leisure
    battery bring the car battery up and the leisure batteries down?
    Seems as if it should.
    Then I could use the mains hook up and the solar power to charge the motor
    home leisure batteries and the car battery at the same time.

    Assuming that would not overload the motor home charging circuits.

    Thoughts?

    Cheers



    Dave R



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  • From David@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat May 3 15:17:29 2025
    On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 16:09:48 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    <snip>

    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that it
    could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be
    sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a reliable
    jump start pack.

    Well the motor home will have a leisure battery built in.
    <snip>

    One potential issue is that the leisure batteries are at the far end from
    the starter battery.

    I need to check how long my jump leads are, but probably need 5 or 6 metre.

    This has prompted another thought, which I will post upstream.

    Cheers




    Dave R


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  • From John Rumm@21:1/5 to David on Tue May 6 00:31:44 2025
    On 02/05/2025 12:38, David wrote:
    On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 15:00:33 +0000, David wrote:

    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two weeks
    ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand new
    battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by
    something.

    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that it
    could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be
    sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a reliable
    jump start pack.

    Bought a NOCO GBX45 off Amazon.

    as it happens, so did I :-)

    Interesting looking bit of kit.
    It came mostly charged.
    It doesn't come with a charger.
    I haven't read the manual yet, but the picture on the front says 10W USB A out, and 60W USB C in.

    It looks as though it needs a USB C charger capable of chucking out 60W if you want to be able to use it twice without waiting a long time for it to charge.

    I will charge from any USB - but can take advantage of faster charging
    if available.


    No manual - need to look on line.

    https://no.co/downloads




    --
    Cheers,

    John.

    /=================================================================\
    | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
    | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/

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  • From wasbit@21:1/5 to David on Tue May 6 09:38:40 2025
    On 30/04/2025 16:00, David wrote:
    After behaving faultlessly for years, our car failed to start two weeks
    ago.
    Away from home in a car park.
    RAC called, and after about a 2 hour wait they turned up.
    At which point the bl**dy thing started.

    Anyway, battery was well old (bought car late 2016) so had a brand new battery fitted.
    Today, it started fine.
    Drove for about 45 minutes.
    Stood for a couple of hours.
    Started fine.
    Drove back for 45 minutes.
    Now it won't start any I can see the 12V being dragged down by something.

    Until this is resolved it seems risky to use the car.
    It is on charge, but the random nature of the failure suggests that it
    could happen at any time.

    For safety and lack of worry, I think a jump start pack would be sensible.

    We have 2 vehicles; 3.0l diesel car and 2.3l diesel motor home.
    I am now looking for suggestions (borne from experience) for a reliable
    jump start pack.


    Mine is a Greenkeeper, I think the 2000A model GK-J1202 which is
    suitable for up to a 6.5L diesel. They also do a 1000A & a 3000A model.
    I carry one because short journeys in winter often isn't enough to keep
    the battery fully charged.
    I always try to make each journey at least 5 miles.



    --
    Regards
    wasbit

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