In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask this here.
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has
announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against air/space
attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up exploding on
the ground?
On 21/05/2025 09:06, Jeff Gaines wrote:
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask this here.
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has
announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against air/space >>attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up exploding on the >>ground?
As both Russia and the Ukraine has found recently, you are unlikely to
knock out everything when the airspace is saturated with relatively cheap >drones along with the munitions that do the serious damage.
It will be something like the full air coverage against attack in the USA
in the 1960s but still the UK nuked America (twice). >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wx6npt421c
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask this here.
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has
announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against air/space
attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up exploding on
the ground?
On 21/05/2025 09:06, Jeff Gaines wrote:
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask this
here.
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has
announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against air/space
attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up exploding on
the ground?
Well no, they will normally explode in the air, or not explode at all.
As a 'controlled explosion' destroys a bomb by disassembling it before
it can go bang.
Of course until El Donaldo canme to power, no one actually *wanted* to
attack the USA.
Oh well..
On 21/05/2025 10:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/05/2025 09:06, Jeff Gaines wrote:
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask this
here.
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has
announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against air/space
attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up exploding on
the ground?
Well no, they will normally explode in the air, or not explode at all.
As a 'controlled explosion' destroys a bomb by disassembling it before
it can go bang.
Of course until El Donaldo canme to power, no one actually *wanted* to
attack the USA.
Oh well..
Build a system to knock everything out of the sky and the sneaky
bastards will just cyber attack space x and knock out all the
satellites. With Trump now giving all US contracts to Musk for their security he creates an easy target. :)
Of course until El Donaldo canme to power, no one actually *wanted* to
attack the USA.
On 21 May 2025 at 10:33:48 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Of course until El Donaldo canme to power, no one actually *wanted* to
attack the USA.
HaHaHaHa! Nice one!
On 21/05/2025 in message <m95hg5Fl1nlU1@mid.individual.net> alan_m wrote:
On 21/05/2025 09:06, Jeff Gaines wrote:
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask this here. >>
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has >>announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against air/space >>attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up exploding on the >>ground?
As both Russia and the Ukraine has found recently, you are unlikely to >knock out everything when the airspace is saturated with relatively cheap >drones along with the munitions that do the serious damage.
It will be something like the full air coverage against attack in the USA >in the 1960s but still the UK nuked America (twice). >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wx6npt421c
Thank you for that, I hadn't seen it before :-)
Those were the days our technology led the world. I remember being on
holiday in Malta when a flight of 4 Vulcans (from memory painted white)
flew over the Golden Sands hotel, awesome!
On 21/05/2025 in message <m95hg5Fl1nlU1@mid.individual.net> alan_m wrote:
On 21/05/2025 09:06, Jeff Gaines wrote:
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask this here. >>>
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has
announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against air/space
attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up exploding on the >>> ground?
As both Russia and the Ukraine has found recently, you are unlikely to
knock out everything when the airspace is saturated with relatively cheap
drones along with the munitions that do the serious damage.
It will be something like the full air coverage against attack in the USA
in the 1960s but still the UK nuked America (twice).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wx6npt421c
Thank you for that, I hadn't seen it before :-)
Those were the days our technology led the world. I remember being on
holiday in Malta when a flight of 4 Vulcans (from memory painted white)
flew over the Golden Sands hotel, awesome!
On 21/05/2025 11:00, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/05/2025 in message <m95hg5Fl1nlU1@mid.individual.net> alan_m wrote:
On 21/05/2025 09:06, Jeff Gaines wrote:
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask this
here.
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has
announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against air/space
attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up exploding
on the
ground?
As both Russia and the Ukraine has found recently, you are unlikely to
knock out everything when the airspace is saturated with relatively
cheap
drones along with the munitions that do the serious damage.
It will be something like the full air coverage against attack in the
USA
in the 1960s but still the UK nuked America (twice).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wx6npt421c
Thank you for that, I hadn't seen it before :-)
Those were the days our technology led the world. I remember being on
holiday in Malta when a flight of 4 Vulcans (from memory painted white)
flew over the Golden Sands hotel, awesome!
There is a Vulcan at the Newark Air Museum. I visited there around 9
years ago and was fortunate enough to take the cockpit tour (carried out
by the squadron commander who landed it there many years earlier). It
was an amazing experience but I'm not sure if those tours are done any
more. If they are, and you're in the area, it's worth seeing. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWwG22HgaHU>
On 21/05/2025 22:39, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 21/05/2025 11:00, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/05/2025 in message <m95hg5Fl1nlU1@mid.individual.net> alan_m wrote: >>
On 21/05/2025 09:06, Jeff Gaines wrote:
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask this >>>> here.
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has
announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against air/space >>>> attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up exploding
on the
ground?
As both Russia and the Ukraine has found recently, you are unlikely to >>> knock out everything when the airspace is saturated with relatively
cheap
drones along with the munitions that do the serious damage.
It will be something like the full air coverage against attack in the
USA
in the 1960s but still the UK nuked America (twice).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wx6npt421c
Thank you for that, I hadn't seen it before :-)
Those were the days our technology led the world. I remember being on
holiday in Malta when a flight of 4 Vulcans (from memory painted white)
flew over the Golden Sands hotel, awesome!
There is a Vulcan at the Newark Air Museum. I visited there around 9
years ago and was fortunate enough to take the cockpit tour (carried out
by the squadron commander who landed it there many years earlier). It
was an amazing experience but I'm not sure if those tours are done any more. If they are, and you're in the area, it's worth seeing. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWwG22HgaHU>
They are advertising a tour of a vulcan cockpit (for a fee) at Southend
on Sea airport on 15th June 2025 / 17 August 2025 / 28 September 2025 /
-
On 21/05/2025 11:00, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/05/2025 in message <m95hg5Fl1nlU1@mid.individual.net> alan_m wrote:
On 21/05/2025 09:06, Jeff Gaines wrote:
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask this >>>>here.
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has >>>>announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against air/space >>>>attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up exploding on >>>>the
ground?
As both Russia and the Ukraine has found recently, you are unlikely to >>>knock out everything when the airspace is saturated with relatively cheap >>>drones along with the munitions that do the serious damage.
It will be something like the full air coverage against attack in the USA >>>in the 1960s but still the UK nuked America (twice). >>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wx6npt421c
Thank you for that, I hadn't seen it before :-)
Those were the days our technology led the world. I remember being on >>holiday in Malta when a flight of 4 Vulcans (from memory painted white) >>flew over the Golden Sands hotel, awesome!
There is a Vulcan at the Newark Air Museum. I visited there around 9 years >ago and was fortunate enough to take the cockpit tour (carried out by the >squadron commander who landed it there many years earlier). It was an
amazing experience but I'm not sure if those tours are done any more. If
they are, and you're in the area, it's worth seeing. ><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWwG22HgaHU>
On 21/05/2025 11:00, Jeff Gaines wrote:
Those were the days our technology led the world. I remember being on
holiday in Malta when a flight of 4 Vulcans (from memory painted white)
flew over the Golden Sands hotel, awesome!
There is a Vulcan at the Newark Air Museum. I visited there around 9
years ago and was fortunate enough to take the cockpit tour (carried out
by the squadron commander who landed it there many years earlier). It
was an amazing experience but I'm not sure if those tours are done any
more. If they are, and you're in the area, it's worth seeing. ><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWwG22HgaHU>
In article <xn0p626mx9bpebs00j@news.individual.net>,
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 21/05/2025 in message <m95hg5Fl1nlU1@mid.individual.net> alan_m
wrote:
On 21/05/2025 09:06, Jeff Gaines wrote:
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask
this here.
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has >>announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against
air/space attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the
air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up
exploding on the ground?
As both Russia and the Ukraine has found recently, you are
unlikely to knock out everything when the airspace is saturated
with relatively cheap drones along with the munitions that do the
serious damage.
It will be something like the full air coverage against attack in
the USA in the 1960s but still the UK nuked America (twice). >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wx6npt421c
Thank you for that, I hadn't seen it before :-)
Those were the days our technology led the world. I remember being
on holiday in Malta when a flight of 4 Vulcans (from memory painted
white) flew over the Golden Sands hotel, awesome!
I can remember being right undeneath a Vulcan which was
"hedgehopping" in the west of Scotland. It even had to bank to avoid
hitting a Decca Navigator mast. It was noisy!
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask this here.
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has
announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against air/space
attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up exploding on
the ground?
On Wed, 21 May 25 19:45:01 UTC
charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
In article <xn0p626mx9bpebs00j@news.individual.net>,
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 21/05/2025 in message <m95hg5Fl1nlU1@mid.individual.net> alan_m
wrote:
On 21/05/2025 09:06, Jeff Gaines wrote:
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask
this here.
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has
announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against
air/space attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the
air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up
exploding on the ground?
As both Russia and the Ukraine has found recently, you are
unlikely to knock out everything when the airspace is saturated
with relatively cheap drones along with the munitions that do the
serious damage.
It will be something like the full air coverage against attack in
the USA in the 1960s but still the UK nuked America (twice).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wx6npt421c
Thank you for that, I hadn't seen it before :-)
Those were the days our technology led the world. I remember being
on holiday in Malta when a flight of 4 Vulcans (from memory painted
white) flew over the Golden Sands hotel, awesome!
I can remember being right undeneath a Vulcan which was
"hedgehopping" in the west of Scotland. It even had to bank to avoid
hitting a Decca Navigator mast. It was noisy!
We went to watch the Last Flight as it passed near us in East Anglia,
and due to a local storm, it diverted from about a mile away to directly overhead. Perfect!
On 22/05/2025 08:50, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 25 19:45:01 UTC
charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
In article <xn0p626mx9bpebs00j@news.individual.net>,
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 21/05/2025 in message <m95hg5Fl1nlU1@mid.individual.net> alan_m
wrote:
On 21/05/2025 09:06, Jeff Gaines wrote:
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask
this here.
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has
announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against
air/space attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the
air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up
exploding on the ground?
As both Russia and the Ukraine has found recently, you are
unlikely to knock out everything when the airspace is saturated
with relatively cheap drones along with the munitions that do the
serious damage.
It will be something like the full air coverage against attack in
the USA in the 1960s but still the UK nuked America (twice).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wx6npt421c
Thank you for that, I hadn't seen it before :-)
Those were the days our technology led the world. I remember being
on holiday in Malta when a flight of 4 Vulcans (from memory painted
white) flew over the Golden Sands hotel, awesome!
I can remember being right undeneath a Vulcan which was
"hedgehopping" in the west of Scotland. It even had to bank to avoid
hitting a Decca Navigator mast. It was noisy!
We went to watch the Last Flight as it passed near us in East Anglia,
and due to a local storm, it diverted from about a mile away to directly
overhead. Perfect!
The last flight of one stopped at Southend airport (28th June 2015) - I
went out in the car to try and get to a good vantage point - but it was gridlock. In the end I went home, only to catch a glimpse of its
approach and realise it was going to fry overhead. So I was able to stop
at the side of the road and get a short video of it directly above.
The irony was that it flew straight up our road and over our house, so I would have got a better view just by waiting in the garden!
https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Vulcan-Southend-Flypast.jpg
Jeff Layman wrote:
On 21/05/2025 11:00, Jeff Gaines wrote:
Those were the days our technology led the world. I remember being on
holiday in Malta when a flight of 4 Vulcans (from memory painted white)
flew over the Golden Sands hotel, awesome!
There is a Vulcan at the Newark Air Museum. I visited there around 9
years ago and was fortunate enough to take the cockpit tour (carried out
by the squadron commander who landed it there many years earlier). It
was an amazing experience but I'm not sure if those tours are done any
more. If they are, and you're in the area, it's worth seeing.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWwG22HgaHU>
I recall a flying display at Finningley in the 60s, featuring a
scramble of 3 Vulcans, and that sound really shook your body.
The Lightning doing a low pass and rapid climb was another
highlight.
I have been inside the Vulcan at Newark, and certainly wouldn't
fancy 16 hours travelling backwards in those cramped conditions.
This is a great story, even if you know the ending:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vulcan-607-Rowland-White/dp/0552152293
In view of the technical expertise in here I though I would ask this here.
Trump, who seems to be our new leader as he is always on TV, has announced a "Golden Dome" defence system to protect against air/space attack and said "All of them will be knocked out of the air."
Will they then fly away or is it likely they will end up exploding on the ground?
What I found most memorable was something I hadn't thought about - the special window blinds to protect the crew from the nuclear flash of the
bomb they'd dropped. I was also told that Lancaster pilots would have
found much of the Vulcan familiar!
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
[re Avro Vulcan in war mode…]
What I found most memorable was something I hadn't thought about - the
special window blinds to protect the crew from the nuclear flash of the
bomb they'd dropped. I was also told that Lancaster pilots would have
found much of the Vulcan familiar!
It wasn’t only their own nuclear bomb flash that they had to be aware of. They would be flying into an active war zone, with other bombers dropping their weapons on their own targets, missile warheads detonating, nuclear air-defence missiles going off, etc etc. The idea was that they would use
the anti flash curtains to protect the rest of the crew, but the pilot had
to be aware of what was going on outside and so his curtain would be pulled back far enough for this. However, he was also issued with an eye patch, so that if blinded in his uncovered eye he would still have a working one. If that was blinded in turn, he would hand over to the co-pilot, who also had
an eye-patch…so there would have been a total of four eyes available to fly the mission.
One other thing of importance is the EMP from the nuclear explosion frying >the electronics. But how much of the Vulcan was transistorised?
After seeing the Vulcan I bought an Air Indicator Unit which was part of a >"Green Satin" Doppler radar unit at Birkett's in Lincoln. When I opened it
I was amazed to find no transistors at all, just valves. These were of the >subminiature type - CV465, 468, 469, and 4501. I assume these would have
been much less likely to suffer from an EMP. If the rest of the Vulcan's >electronics were mainly valves, then it would probably have had good >resistance to an EMP.
The Air Indicator Unit weighed 10kg, so it's no wonder that the Vulcan >weighed over 100 tons!
On 22/05/2025 17:13, Spike wrote:
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
[re Avro Vulcan in war mode…]
What I found most memorable was something I hadn't thought about - the
special window blinds to protect the crew from the nuclear flash of the
bomb they'd dropped. I was also told that Lancaster pilots would have
found much of the Vulcan familiar!
It wasn’t only their own nuclear bomb flash that they had to be aware of. >> They would be flying into an active war zone, with other bombers dropping
their weapons on their own targets, missile warheads detonating, nuclear
air-defence missiles going off, etc etc. The idea was that they would use
the anti flash curtains to protect the rest of the crew, but the pilot had >> to be aware of what was going on outside and so his curtain would be pulled >> back far enough for this. However, he was also issued with an eye patch, so >> that if blinded in his uncovered eye he would still have a working one. If >> that was blinded in turn, he would hand over to the co-pilot, who also had >> an eye-patch…so there would have been a total of four eyes available to fly
the mission.
One other thing of importance is the EMP from the nuclear explosion
frying the electronics. But how much of the Vulcan was transistorised?
After seeing the Vulcan I bought an Air Indicator Unit which was part of
a "Green Satin" Doppler radar unit at Birkett's in Lincoln. When I
opened it I was amazed to find no transistors at all, just valves. These
were of the subminiature type - CV465, 468, 469, and 4501. I assume
these would have been much less likely to suffer from an EMP. If the
rest of the Vulcan's electronics were mainly valves, then it would
probably have had good resistance to an EMP.
The Air Indicator Unit weighed 10kg, so it's no wonder that the Vulcan weighed over 100 tons!
On 23/05/2025 in message <100p9ce$3vmfc$1@dont-email.me> Jeff Layman wrote:
After seeing the Vulcan I bought an Air Indicator Unit which was part of a >> "Green Satin" Doppler radar unit at Birkett's in Lincoln. When I opened it >> I was amazed to find no transistors at all, just valves. These were of the >> subminiature type - CV465, 468, 469, and 4501. I assume these would have
been much less likely to suffer from an EMP. If the rest of the Vulcan's
electronics were mainly valves, then it would probably have had good
resistance to an EMP.
The Vulcan did have some sophisticated electronics presumably because the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wx6npt421c
(link courtesy of alan_m)
shows that 3 ran interference while the 4th bombed New York.
However, I imagine that could have been valve driven, certainly a lot of
the communication receivers of the era were excellent and they used valves
- as well as 300V PSUs with bare cables underneath as I discovered when I picked one up :-(
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
[re Avro Vulcan in war mode…]
What I found most memorable was something I hadn't thought about - the
special window blinds to protect the crew from the nuclear flash of the
bomb they'd dropped. I was also told that Lancaster pilots would have
found much of the Vulcan familiar!
It wasn’t only their own nuclear bomb flash that they had to be aware of. >They would be flying into an active war zone, with other bombers dropping >their weapons on their own targets, missile warheads detonating, nuclear >air-defence missiles going off, etc etc. The idea was that they would use
the anti flash curtains to protect the rest of the crew, but the pilot had
to be aware of what was going on outside and so his curtain would be pulled >back far enough for this. However, he was also issued with an eye patch, so >that if blinded in his uncovered eye he would still have a working one. If >that was blinded in turn, he would hand over to the co-pilot, who also had
an eye-patch…so there would have been a total of four eyes available to fly >the mission.
Rumour has it that when they had dropped their bomb, and realising that the >UK would by this time essentially be a pile of smoking ash, they would fly >east until the fuel ran out, at which point the crew would bale out, and >individually settle down to a nomadic life with an accommodating Mongolian >woman.
On 23/05/2025 in message <100p9ce$3vmfc$1@dont-email.me> Jeff Layman wrote:
One other thing of importance is the EMP from the nuclear explosion frying >>the electronics. But how much of the Vulcan was transistorised?
After seeing the Vulcan I bought an Air Indicator Unit which was part of a >>"Green Satin" Doppler radar unit at Birkett's in Lincoln. When I opened it >>I was amazed to find no transistors at all, just valves. These were of the >>subminiature type - CV465, 468, 469, and 4501. I assume these would have >>been much less likely to suffer from an EMP. If the rest of the Vulcan's >>electronics were mainly valves, then it would probably have had good >>resistance to an EMP.
The Air Indicator Unit weighed 10kg, so it's no wonder that the Vulcan >>weighed over 100 tons!
The Vulcan did have some sophisticated electronics presumably because the >video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wx6npt421c
(link courtesy of alan_m)
shows that 3 ran interference while the 4th bombed New York.
However, I imagine that could have been valve driven, certainly a lot of
the communication receivers of the era were excellent and they used valves
- as well as 300V PSUs with bare cables underneath as I discovered when I >picked one up :-(
Looking up, I saw the aircraft I was hoping to see at Lakenheath
practising its flight - the SR-71 Blackbird! I was able to watch it for around 10 minutes, just flying around. It was a remarkable sight which
more than made up for the bad start to the day.
I recall a flying display at Finningley in the 60s, featuring a
scramble of 3 Vulcans, and that sound really shook your body.
On 22/05/2025 13:35, Jeff Layman wrote:
Looking up, I saw the aircraft I was hoping to see at Lakenheath
practising its flight - the SR-71 Blackbird! I was able to watch it
for around 10 minutes, just flying around. It was a remarkable sight
which more than made up for the bad start to the day.
When, roughly, might that have been?
I fancy I might have seen it, very low at the time, taking off or
landing, around the Lakenheath area. I was driving at the time, between hedges, so my view was so brief, I wasn't sure what I had actually seen.
On 26/05/2025 17:55, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
On 22/05/2025 13:35, Jeff Layman wrote:
Looking up, I saw the aircraft I was hoping to see at Lakenheath
practising its flight - the SR-71 Blackbird! I was able to watch
it for around 10 minutes, just flying around. It was a remarkable
sight which more than made up for the bad start to the day.
When, roughly, might that have been?
I fancy I might have seen it, very low at the time, taking off or
landing, around the Lakenheath area. I was driving at the time,
between hedges, so my view was so brief, I wasn't sure what I had
actually seen.
They used to be reasonably commonplace a few years back.
Once the Russian knew they existed and where they flew from
The same Barksdale base in Shreveport, Louisiana, that I mentioned had a Vulcan was also taking delivery of an SR-71 when I was leaving the
area.
I think there might be one at Duxford.
On 22/05/2025 13:35, Jeff Layman wrote:
Looking up, I saw the aircraft I was hoping to see at Lakenheath
practising its flight - the SR-71 Blackbird! I was able to watch it for
around 10 minutes, just flying around. It was a remarkable sight which
more than made up for the bad start to the day.
When, roughly, might that have been?
I fancy I might have seen it, very low at the time, taking off or
landing, around the Lakenheath area. I was driving at the time, between hedges, so my view was so brief, I wasn't sure what I had actually seen.
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