https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/05/zodiac_maritime_electric_car_fire/
US Coast Guard and civilian vessels have rescued 22 sailors off the coast
of Alaska after some of the electric cars they were transporting caught
fire.
The good ship Morning Midas - a roll-on, roll-off ferry that was
delivering 3,000 vehicles from Yantai, China, to Lazaro Cardenas, Mexico
- is currently around 304 miles south of Adak, Alaska, the US Coast Guard tells us. The sailors on the vessel, operated by UK-based Zodiac
Maritime, noticed the fire at around midnight UTC on 3 June and were
unable to stop the conflagration.
On 05/06/2025 15:26, Jethro_uk wrote:zodiac_maritime_electric_car_fire/
https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/05/
US Coast Guard and civilian vessels have rescued 22 sailors off the
coast of Alaska after some of the electric cars they were transporting
caught fire.
The good ship Morning Midas - a roll-on, roll-off ferry that was
delivering 3,000 vehicles from Yantai, China, to Lazaro Cardenas,
Mexico - is currently around 304 miles south of Adak, Alaska, the US
Coast Guard tells us. The sailors on the vessel, operated by UK-based
Zodiac Maritime, noticed the fire at around midnight UTC on 3 June and
were unable to stop the conflagration.
The article also says:
As Hurricane Milton approached Florida last fall, Florida State Fire
Marshal Jimmy Patronis warned electric cars and other battery-powered
kit " are ticking time bombs.”
"In the aftermath of Hurricane Helene, we have seen nearly 50 fires
caused by lithium-ion batteries with 11 of those fires being caused by
EVs."
So, in Florida, they had 3 to 4 times as many fires caused by Lithium batteries not in EVs than by EVs. That got me starting to count. At the moment we have in the house:
A couple of dozen rechargeable lithium batteries lying around Several
phones.
Half a dozen computers with lithium batteries.
Several multipacks of CR2032 batteries, and the like.
Digital watches Rechargeable torches Drills Vacuum cleaners ...
Maybe, the watch batteries aren't a huge risk, but there's a lot of
power stored in the power tool battery packs, for example.
On 05/06/2025 15:26, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/05/zodiac_maritime_electric_car_fire/
US Coast Guard and civilian vessels have rescued 22 sailors off the
coast of Alaska after some of the electric cars they were
transporting caught fire.
The good ship Morning Midas - a roll-on, roll-off ferry that was
delivering 3,000 vehicles from Yantai, China, to Lazaro Cardenas,
Mexico
- is currently around 304 miles south of Adak, Alaska, the US Coast
Guard tells us. The sailors on the vessel, operated by UK-based
Zodiac Maritime, noticed the fire at around midnight UTC on 3 June
and were unable to stop the conflagration.
The article also says:
As Hurricane Milton approached Florida last fall, Florida State Fire
Marshal Jimmy Patronis warned electric cars and other battery-powered
kit " are ticking time bombs.”
"In the aftermath of Hurricane Helene, we have seen nearly 50 fires
caused by lithium-ion batteries with 11 of those fires being caused
by EVs."
So, in Florida, they had 3 to 4 times as many fires caused by Lithium batteries not in EVs than by EVs. That got me starting to count. At
the moment we have in the house:
A couple of dozen rechargeable lithium batteries lying around
Several phones.
Half a dozen computers with lithium batteries.
Several multipacks of CR2032 batteries, and the like.
Digital watches
Rechargeable torches
Drills
Vacuum cleaners
...
Maybe, the watch batteries aren't a huge risk, but there's a lot of
power stored in the power tool battery packs, for example.
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 18:53:33 +0100
GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
On 05/06/2025 15:26, Jethro_uk wrote:But do we hear frequent accounts of these items combusting, either spontaneously or during charging? I believe the coin cells use a quite different battery technology, much older than the problem kind. They
https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/05/zodiac_maritime_electric_car_fire/ >>>
US Coast Guard and civilian vessels have rescued 22 sailors off the
coast of Alaska after some of the electric cars they were
transporting caught fire.
The good ship Morning Midas - a roll-on, roll-off ferry that was
delivering 3,000 vehicles from Yantai, China, to Lazaro Cardenas,
Mexico
- is currently around 304 miles south of Adak, Alaska, the US Coast
Guard tells us. The sailors on the vessel, operated by UK-based
Zodiac Maritime, noticed the fire at around midnight UTC on 3 June
and were unable to stop the conflagration.
The article also says:
As Hurricane Milton approached Florida last fall, Florida State Fire
Marshal Jimmy Patronis warned electric cars and other battery-powered
kit " are ticking time bombs.”
"In the aftermath of Hurricane Helene, we have seen nearly 50 fires
caused by lithium-ion batteries with 11 of those fires being caused
by EVs."
So, in Florida, they had 3 to 4 times as many fires caused by Lithium
batteries not in EVs than by EVs. That got me starting to count. At
the moment we have in the house:
A couple of dozen rechargeable lithium batteries lying around
Several phones.
Half a dozen computers with lithium batteries.
Several multipacks of CR2032 batteries, and the like.
Digital watches
Rechargeable torches
Drills
Vacuum cleaners
...
Maybe, the watch batteries aren't a huge risk, but there's a lot of
power stored in the power tool battery packs, for example.
are not rechargeable and produce around 3V when manufactured, compared
to the 4.2 volts of the rechargeable cell.
Most watches, I think, will use silver oxide or other button cells. My
watch uses a CR2025, but no others for which I have replaced the
batteries used lithium.
Presumably the larger modern batteries of power tools and the like are
at risk of problems, but they must exist in hundreds of millions and yet never make the headlines. Phones, Kindles etc. must exist in billions at least, but only Israeli pagers seem to have difficulties.
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 18:53:33 +0100
GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
On 05/06/2025 15:26, Jethro_uk wrote:But do we hear frequent accounts of these items combusting, either spontaneously or during charging? I believe the coin cells use a quite different battery technology, much older than the problem kind. They
https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/05/zodiac_maritime_electric_car_fire/ >>>
US Coast Guard and civilian vessels have rescued 22 sailors off the
coast of Alaska after some of the electric cars they were
transporting caught fire.
The good ship Morning Midas - a roll-on, roll-off ferry that was
delivering 3,000 vehicles from Yantai, China, to Lazaro Cardenas,
Mexico
- is currently around 304 miles south of Adak, Alaska, the US Coast
Guard tells us. The sailors on the vessel, operated by UK-based
Zodiac Maritime, noticed the fire at around midnight UTC on 3 June
and were unable to stop the conflagration.
The article also says:
As Hurricane Milton approached Florida last fall, Florida State Fire
Marshal Jimmy Patronis warned electric cars and other battery-powered
kit " are ticking time bombs.”
"In the aftermath of Hurricane Helene, we have seen nearly 50 fires
caused by lithium-ion batteries with 11 of those fires being caused
by EVs."
So, in Florida, they had 3 to 4 times as many fires caused by Lithium
batteries not in EVs than by EVs. That got me starting to count. At
the moment we have in the house:
A couple of dozen rechargeable lithium batteries lying around
Several phones.
Half a dozen computers with lithium batteries.
Several multipacks of CR2032 batteries, and the like.
Digital watches
Rechargeable torches
Drills
Vacuum cleaners
...
Maybe, the watch batteries aren't a huge risk, but there's a lot of
power stored in the power tool battery packs, for example.
are not rechargeable and produce around 3V when manufactured, compared
to the 4.2 volts of the rechargeable cell.
Most watches, I think, will use silver oxide or other button cells. My
watch uses a CR2025, but no others for which I have replaced the
batteries used lithium.
Presumably the larger modern batteries of power tools and the like are
at risk of problems, but they must exist in hundreds of millions and yet never make the headlines. Phones, Kindles etc. must exist in billions at least, but only Israeli pagers seem to have difficulties.
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 18:53:33 +0100
GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
On 05/06/2025 15:26, Jethro_uk wrote:But do we hear frequent accounts of these items combusting, either spontaneously or during charging? I believe the coin cells use a quite different battery technology, much older than the problem kind. They
https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/05/zodiac_maritime_electric_car_fire/ >> >
US Coast Guard and civilian vessels have rescued 22 sailors off the
coast of Alaska after some of the electric cars they were
transporting caught fire.
The good ship Morning Midas - a roll-on, roll-off ferry that was
delivering 3,000 vehicles from Yantai, China, to Lazaro Cardenas,
Mexico
- is currently around 304 miles south of Adak, Alaska, the US Coast
Guard tells us. The sailors on the vessel, operated by UK-based
Zodiac Maritime, noticed the fire at around midnight UTC on 3 June
and were unable to stop the conflagration.
The article also says:
As Hurricane Milton approached Florida last fall, Florida State Fire
Marshal Jimmy Patronis warned electric cars and other battery-powered
kit " are ticking time bombs.”
"In the aftermath of Hurricane Helene, we have seen nearly 50 fires
caused by lithium-ion batteries with 11 of those fires being caused
by EVs."
So, in Florida, they had 3 to 4 times as many fires caused by Lithium
batteries not in EVs than by EVs. That got me starting to count. At
the moment we have in the house:
A couple of dozen rechargeable lithium batteries lying around
Several phones.
Half a dozen computers with lithium batteries.
Several multipacks of CR2032 batteries, and the like.
Digital watches
Rechargeable torches
Drills
Vacuum cleaners
...
Maybe, the watch batteries aren't a huge risk, but there's a lot of
power stored in the power tool battery packs, for example.
are not rechargeable and produce around 3V when manufactured, compared
to the 4.2 volts of the rechargeable cell.
Most watches, I think, will use silver oxide or other button cells. My
watch uses a CR2025, but no others for which I have replaced the
batteries used lithium.
Presumably the larger modern batteries of power tools and the like are
at risk of problems, but they must exist in hundreds of millions and yet never make the headlines. Phones, Kindles etc. must exist in billions at least, but only Israeli pagers seem to have difficulties.
Presumably the larger modern batteries of power tools and the like are
at risk of problems, but they must exist in hundreds of millions and yet never make the headlines. Phones, Kindles etc. must exist in billions at least, but only Israeli pagers seem to have difficulties.
If you have a good surface to volume ratio, small battery it can dispose of all the excess heat without breaking into a fire.
On 05/06/2025 19:40, Joe wrote:
Presumably the larger modern batteries of power tools and the like are
at risk of problems, but they must exist in hundreds of millions and yet
never make the headlines. Phones, Kindles etc. must exist in billions at
least, but only Israeli pagers seem to have difficulties.
Well all power lithium polymer are capable of doing Bad Things.
The model aircraft community were the early adopters and I have seen several packs go up in flames.
One photo documented story was of a guy who left his powerpack on the car seat in a california car park while he went to work
The car was completely destroyed. Not by a battery capable of powering a car, but by one capable of flying a small model plane.
Not by a pack on charge. Just a pack left in the sun
That was back in the noughties.
The problem is that a number of fires appear to be spontaneous. There is no identifiable external cause.
And if you are relying on headlines in the MSM for your understanding of the world, I have a bridge to sell you
Of course modern build quality is better and packs come with protection circuits to avoid over charge or over discharge,m but even so,.
My little mobile phone had a swollen battery from being in a car at over 30°C. The original battery as it happens. The replacement is much better...
There are also single crystal electrodes under research, that
have been charging and discharging for five years, without
detectable wear and tear on the electrode. This is the
equivalent of driving 5 million miles in the car.
What I can't find, is any predictions on flammability
for the novel batteries.
On Fri, 6/6/2025 7:08 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/06/2025 19:40, Joe wrote:
Presumably the larger modern batteries of power tools and the like are
at risk of problems, but they must exist in hundreds of millions and yet >>> never make the headlines. Phones, Kindles etc. must exist in billions at >>> least, but only Israeli pagers seem to have difficulties.
Well all power lithium polymer are capable of doing Bad Things.
The model aircraft community were the early adopters and I have seen several packs go up in flames.
One photo documented story was of a guy who left his powerpack on the car seat in a california car park while he went to work
The car was completely destroyed. Not by a battery capable of powering a car, but by one capable of flying a small model plane.
Not by a pack on charge. Just a pack left in the sun
That was back in the noughties.
The problem is that a number of fires appear to be spontaneous. There is no identifiable external cause.
And if you are relying on headlines in the MSM for your understanding of the world, I have a bridge to sell you
Of course modern build quality is better and packs come with protection circuits to avoid over charge or over discharge,m but even so,.
My little mobile phone had a swollen battery from being in a car at over 30°C. The original battery as it happens. The replacement is much better...
But there are batteries in the pipe, that will change this.
https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/05/zodiac_maritime_electric_car_fire/
US Coast Guard and civilian vessels have rescued 22 sailors off the
coast of Alaska after some of the electric cars they were
transporting caught fire.
The good ship Morning Midas - a roll-on, roll-off ferry that was
delivering 3,000 vehicles from Yantai, China, to Lazaro Cardenas,
Mexico
- is currently around 304 miles south of Adak, Alaska, the US Coast
Guard tells us. The sailors on the vessel, operated by UK-based
Zodiac Maritime, noticed the fire at around midnight UTC on 3 June
and were unable to stop the conflagration.
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 14:26:51 -0000 (UTC)
Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/05/zodiac_maritime_electric_car_fire/
US Coast Guard and civilian vessels have rescued 22 sailors off the
coast of Alaska after some of the electric cars they were
transporting caught fire.
The good ship Morning Midas - a roll-on, roll-off ferry that was
delivering 3,000 vehicles from Yantai, China, to Lazaro Cardenas,
Mexico
- is currently around 304 miles south of Adak, Alaska, the US Coast
Guard tells us. The sailors on the vessel, operated by UK-based
Zodiac Maritime, noticed the fire at around midnight UTC on 3 June
and were unable to stop the conflagration.
Lazaro Cardenas is at about about Lat. 18 deg. N, Yantai is at about
37.5 deg. N. Why does a ship go near Adak, Alaska, 52 deg. N, when it is travelling from one to the other? Surely you would keep South of the
most Northerly of the two points? Unless Adak is a short cut to the
Panama Canal. Some Great Circle route?
Hmm. Ok. I looked at it on Google Earth, and it still seemed a long
way. But then, I'm not a navigator.
Once, my sailing brother-in-law delivered a new sailing yacht, as
opposed to a gin palace yacht, from Hong Kong to somewhere on the West
coast of Mexico, and he also went via Alaska. but we reckoned that was
for something a little bit illegal. Maybe he was innocent after all.
Having delivered the boat, and any cargo, he then caught a train
right across Mexico to the US border at Brownsville, then
rode the Greyhound Bus to meet us in Kansas City, Missouri.
On 08/06/2025 10:24, Davey wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 14:26:51 -0000 (UTC)
Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/05/zodiac_maritime_electric_car_fire/ >>
US Coast Guard and civilian vessels have rescued 22 sailors off the
coast of Alaska after some of the electric cars they were
transporting caught fire.
The good ship Morning Midas - a roll-on, roll-off ferry that was
delivering 3,000 vehicles from Yantai, China, to Lazaro Cardenas,
Mexico
- is currently around 304 miles south of Adak, Alaska, the US Coast
Guard tells us. The sailors on the vessel, operated by UK-based
Zodiac Maritime, noticed the fire at around midnight UTC on 3 June
and were unable to stop the conflagration.
Lazaro Cardenas is at about about Lat. 18 deg. N, Yantai is at about
37.5 deg. N. Why does a ship go near Adak, Alaska, 52 deg. N, when
it is travelling from one to the other? Surely you would keep South
of the most Northerly of the two points? Unless Adak is a short cut
to the Panama Canal. Some Great Circle route?
" Surely you would keep South of the most Northerly of the two
points?"
That's not how great circle routes work. For example, London to Los
Angeles planes fly near the N Pole, which is obviously north of both
start and end points.
That explanation's probably not very convincing, because we are so
used to seeing map projections that map the globe's surface onto flat
paper.
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 14:26:51 -0000 (UTC)
Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/05/zodiac_maritime_electric_car_fire/
US Coast Guard and civilian vessels have rescued 22 sailors off the
coast of Alaska after some of the electric cars they were
transporting caught fire.
The good ship Morning Midas - a roll-on, roll-off ferry that was
delivering 3,000 vehicles from Yantai, China, to Lazaro Cardenas,
Mexico
- is currently around 304 miles south of Adak, Alaska, the US Coast
Guard tells us. The sailors on the vessel, operated by UK-based
Zodiac Maritime, noticed the fire at around midnight UTC on 3 June
and were unable to stop the conflagration.
Lazaro Cardenas is at about about Lat. 18 deg. N, Yantai is at about
37.5 deg. N. Why does a ship go near Adak, Alaska, 52 deg. N, when it is travelling from one to the other? Surely you would keep South of the
most Northerly of the two points? Unless Adak is a short cut to the
Panama Canal. Some Great Circle route?
On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 11:56:46 +0100 GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid>US Coast Guard and civilian vessels have rescued 22 sailors off the
wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:24, Davey wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 14:26:51 -0000 (UTC) Jethro_uk
<jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/05/zodiac_maritime_electric_car_fire/ >>>>
There are reasons people keep to established shipping lanes. Could becoast of Alaska after some of the electric cars they were
transporting caught fire.
The good ship Morning Midas - a roll-on, roll-off ferry that
was delivering 3,000 vehicles from Yantai, China, to Lazaro
Cardenas, Mexico - is currently around 304 miles south of Adak,
Alaska, the US Coast Guard tells us. The sailors on the vessel,
operated by UK-based Zodiac Maritime, noticed the fire at
around midnight UTC on 3 June and were unable to stop the
conflagration.
Lazaro Cardenas is at about about Lat. 18 deg. N, Yantai is at
about 37.5 deg. N. Why does a ship go near Adak, Alaska, 52 deg.
N, when it is travelling from one to the other? Surely you would
keep South of the most Northerly of the two points? Unless Adak
is a short cut to the Panama Canal. Some Great Circle route?
" Surely you would keep South of the most Northerly of the two
points?"
That's not how great circle routes work. For example, London to
Los Angeles planes fly near the N Pole, which is obviously north of
both start and end points.
That explanation's probably not very convincing, because we are so
used to seeing map projections that map the globe's surface onto
flat paper.
Hmm. Ok. I looked at it on Google Earth, and it still seemed a long
way. But then, I'm not a navigator. Once, my sailing brother-in-law
delivered a new sailing yacht, as opposed to a gin palace yacht, from
Hong Kong to somewhere on the West coast of Mexico, and he also went
via Alaska.
Lazaro Cardenas is at about about Lat. 18 deg. N, Yantai is at aboutYes.
37.5 deg. N. Why does a ship go near Adak, Alaska, 52 deg. N, when it is
travelling from one to the other? Surely you would keep South of the
most Northerly of the two points? Unless Adak is a short cut to the
Panama Canal. Some Great Circle route?
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ynt-lzc%0D%0A%0D%0A&MS=wls&DU=mi
On 08/06/2025 13:34, Davey wrote:
Hmm. Ok. I looked at it on Google Earth, and it still seemed a long
way. But then, I'm not a navigator.
Once, my sailing brother-in-law delivered a new sailing yacht, as
opposed to a gin palace yacht, from Hong Kong to somewhere on the
West coast of Mexico, and he also went via Alaska. but we reckoned
that was for something a little bit illegal. Maybe he was innocent
after all. Having delivered the boat, and any cargo, he then caught
a train right across Mexico to the US border at Brownsville, then
rode the Greyhound Bus to meet us in Kansas City, Missouri.
Depending where he dropped the boat off, that's more or less a
straight line through Brownsville to KC.
Am 08.06.2025 um 11:24 schrieb Davey:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 14:26:51 -0000 (UTC)
Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/05/zodiac_maritime_electric_car_fire/ >>
US Coast Guard and civilian vessels have rescued 22 sailors off the
coast of Alaska after some of the electric cars they were
transporting caught fire.
The good ship Morning Midas - a roll-on, roll-off ferry that was
delivering 3,000 vehicles from Yantai, China, to Lazaro Cardenas,
Mexico
- is currently around 304 miles south of Adak, Alaska, the US Coast
Guard tells us. The sailors on the vessel, operated by UK-based
Zodiac Maritime, noticed the fire at around midnight UTC on 3 June
and were unable to stop the conflagration.
Lazaro Cardenas is at about about Lat. 18 deg. N, Yantai is at about
37.5 deg. N. Why does a ship go near Adak, Alaska, 52 deg. N, when
it is travelling from one to the other? Surely you would keep South
of the most Northerly of the two points? Unless Adak is a short cut
to the Panama Canal. Some Great Circle route?
Yes.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ynt-lzc%0D%0A%0D%0A&MS=wls&DU=mi
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and capacity/ >>
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a single charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing battery technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand value of
the EV close to zero.
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and capacity/ >>
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a single charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing battery technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand value of
the EV close to zero.
On 09/06/2025 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:If false why would anyone buy an EV now...either
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and
capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a
single charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing
battery technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand
value of the EV close to zero.
On 09/06/2025 08:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/06/2025 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:If false why would anyone buy an EV now...either
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and
capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a
single charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing
battery technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand
value of the EV close to zero.
They are quiet and comfortable. If you can charge at home,
they are
cheap to run.
For many people, range isn't critical. The furthest I have driven in one >journey in the last 10 years is 130 miles.
If you can charge at home, there are no end of locations where you can't
do that without running cables across the public footpath..
On 09/06/2025 08:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/06/2025 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:If false why would anyone buy an EV now...either
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and
capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a
single charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing
battery technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand
value of the EV close to zero.
They are quiet and comfortable. If you can charge at home, they are
cheap to run.
For many people, range isn't critical. The furthest I have driven in one journey in the last 10 years is 130 miles.
In article <1026blv$fjvp$2@dont-email.me>, GB
<NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> scribeth thus
On 09/06/2025 08:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/06/2025 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:If false why would anyone buy an EV now...either
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and
capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a
single charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing
battery technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand
value of the EV close to zero.
They are quiet and comfortable. If you can charge at home,
they are
cheap to run.
For many people, range isn't critical. The furthest I have driven in one
journey in the last 10 years is 130 miles.
If you can charge at home, there are no end of locations where you can't
do that without running cables across the public footpath..
"nib" <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote in message news:maoejoF9991U1@mid.individual.net...
On 2025-06-09 11:50, tony sayer wrote:
So... if that's you, stick with engines for now. Everyone can't change
at once.
It's not so much "change at once"; it's "change at all, ever" for some
people - unless they move house to one that has driveway parking where
they can charge a car at household rates rather than at a rate which
includes a profit for the operator of a public charger.
On 2025-06-09 11:50, tony sayer wrote:
So... if that's you, stick with engines for now. Everyone can't change at once.
On 09/06/2025 08:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/06/2025 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:If false why would anyone buy an EV now...either
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and
capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a single
charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing battery >>> technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand value of
the EV close to zero.
They are quiet and comfortable. If you can charge at home, they are cheap
to run.
For many people, range isn't critical. The furthest I have driven in one journey in the last 10 years is 130 miles.
On 2025-06-09 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and
capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a single
charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing battery
technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand value of the
EV close to zero.
Possibly because:
Most people buy new cars on a contract such as PCP where they are
insulated from future falls in residual value, and
Many people who have driven an EV would prefer not to switch back to
driving a car with an engine?
"nib" <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote in message news:mangveF4bsrU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2025-06-09 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and
capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a
single charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing
battery technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand
value of the EV close to zero.
Possibly because:
Most people buy new cars on a contract such as PCP where they are
insulated from future falls in residual value, and
Many people who have driven an EV would prefer not to switch back to driving a car with an engine?
If EVs didn't have the huge problem (at present) of taking dramatically longer to charge than it takes to fill up a tank of petrol or diesel and
then get more range that with the EV, and if they weren't eye-wateringly expensive, I'd buy one tomorrow - or at least when my elderly but still perfectly good diesel car finally expires.
I'm sure EVs are a joy to drive, because you don't have to change gear manually or to endure an automatic which changes at a time other than
when you would want it to if you were driving a manual. I have always
found accelerating smoothly out of a roundabout difficult in an
automatic - whether a 1980s Ford Sierra or a much more recent car
because you either don't accelerate enough and the remains in the
present gear but doesn't get a move on or else with a minute amount more accelerator transmission changes down to a silly gear which allows the
engine to rev because it has less load on it and the car lurches
forwards: there isn't a way of saying "I'm in third as I approach, stay
in third as I negotiate and accelerate out, and then change up as I ease
off the power having finished accelerating; don't go down into second
and give me kick-in-the-back acceleration". It's something which is so
much easier in a manual where you the driver can choose when or if you
change gear and by how much, and can coordinate that with the timing of
the acceleration that you've planned. Automatics are great at achieving
a smooth gearchange but still, even in the 2020s, lousy about doing it
at the same places in the acceleration as a manual driver would choose
to do it. I always laugh when people say "automatics are so easy to
drive" because I find them a lot more difficult because I'm "fighting"
to remain in control. All that is a non-issue with an EV.
Once they solve the recharging-time problem (and ideally increase the
range, although an extra stop for a couple of minutes (equivalent to
filling up with diesel) is no great hardship; it's the fact that ever
stop is for a lot longer than you would otherwise stop.
There is the little social problem. Suppose you have friends come to
visit you. You need a social protocol for "can I charge my car on your
drive and reimburse you for the cost of the electricity" because it
seems mean to force your visitors to go out and find a public charger (on-street or car-park) for their return journey - and make them wait
with the car until it's charged because they want to move it as soon as
it's full so as not to hog the charger.
On 09/06/2025 11:50, tony sayer wrote:
If you can charge at home, there are no end of locations where you can't
do that without running cables across the public footpath..
Agreed. It's quite a problem.
We are thinking of down sizing, and most of the smaller houses don't
have off street parking.
"nib" <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote in message news:maoejoF9991U1@mid.individual.net...
On 2025-06-09 11:50, tony sayer wrote:
So... if that's you, stick with engines for now. Everyone can't change
at once.
It's not so much "change at once"; it's "change at all, ever" for some
people - unless they move house to one that has driveway parking where
they can charge a car at household rates rather than at a rate which
includes a profit for the operator of a public charger.
"nib" <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote in message news:mangveF4bsrU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2025-06-09 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and
capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a single
charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing battery >>> technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand value of the >>> EV close to zero.
Possibly because:
Most people buy new cars on a contract such as PCP where they are
insulated from future falls in residual value, and
Many people who have driven an EV would prefer not to switch back to
driving a car with an engine?
If EVs didn't have the huge problem (at present) of taking dramatically longer to charge than it takes to fill up a tank of petrol or diesel and
then get more range that with the EV, and if they weren't eye-wateringly expensive, I'd buy one tomorrow - or at least when my elderly but still perfectly good diesel car finally expires.
Once they solve the recharging-time problem (and ideally increase the
range, although an extra stop for a couple of minutes (equivalent to
filling up with diesel) is no great hardship; it's the fact that ever
stop is for a lot longer than you would otherwise stop.
Don't forget to factor in against the few times a year you might need an in-journey charge with the time saved in the whole of the rest of the
year when you never have to go near a petrol station!
nib wrote:
Don't forget to factor in against the few times a year you might need
an in-journey charge with the time saved in the whole of the rest of
the year when you never have to go near a petrol station!
Yesbut ... the time saved will generally go unnoticed, however the time
lost will likely occur at the worst possible occasion ...
On 2025-06-09 11:50, tony sayer wrote:
In article <1026blv$fjvp$2@dont-email.me>, GB
<NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> scribeth thus
On 09/06/2025 08:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/06/2025 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:If false why would anyone buy an EV now...either
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and
capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a
single charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing
battery technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand >>>>> value of the EV close to zero.
They are quiet and comfortable. If you can charge at home,
they are
cheap to run.
For many people, range isn't critical. The furthest I have driven in one >>> journey in the last 10 years is 130 miles.
If you can charge at home, there are no end of locations where you can't
do that without running cables across the public footpath..
So... if that's you, stick with engines for now. Everyone can't change at once.
nib
"nib" <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote in message news:mangveF4bsrU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2025-06-09 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and
capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a
single charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing
battery technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand
value of the EV close to zero.
Possibly because:
Most people buy new cars on a contract such as PCP where they are
insulated from future falls in residual value, and
Many people who have driven an EV would prefer not to switch back to
driving a car with an engine?
If EVs didn't have the huge problem (at present) of taking dramatically longer to charge than it takes to fill up a tank of petrol or diesel and
then get more range that with the EV, and if they weren't eye-wateringly expensive, I'd buy one tomorrow - or at least when my elderly but still perfectly good diesel car finally expires.
I'm sure EVs are a joy to drive, because you don't have to change gear manually or to endure an automatic which changes at a time other than
when you would want it to if you were driving a manual. I have always
found accelerating smoothly out of a roundabout difficult in an
automatic - whether a 1980s Ford Sierra or a much more recent car
because you either don't accelerate enough and the remains in the
present gear but doesn't get a move on or else with a minute amount more accelerator transmission changes down to a silly gear which allows the
engine to rev because it has less load on it and the car lurches
forwards: there isn't a way of saying "I'm in third as I approach, stay
in third as I negotiate and accelerate out, and then change up as I ease
off the power having finished accelerating; don't go down into second
and give me kick-in-the-back acceleration". It's something which is so
much easier in a manual where you the driver can choose when or if you
change gear and by how much, and can coordinate that with the timing of
the acceleration that you've planned. Automatics are great at achieving
a smooth gearchange but still, even in the 2020s, lousy about doing it
at the same places in the acceleration as a manual driver would choose
to do it. I always laugh when people say "automatics are so easy to
drive" because I find them a lot more difficult because I'm "fighting"
to remain in control. All that is a non-issue with an EV.
Once they solve the recharging-time problem (and ideally increase the
range, although an extra stop for a couple of minutes (equivalent to
filling up with diesel) is no great hardship; it's the fact that ever
stop is for a lot longer than you would otherwise stop.
There is the little social problem. Suppose you have friends come to
visit you. You need a social protocol for "can I charge my car on your
drive and reimburse you for the cost of the electricity" because it
seems mean to force your visitors to go out and find a public charger (on-street or car-park) for their return journey - and make them wait
with the car until it's charged because they want to move it as soon as
it's full so as not to hog the charger.
On Mon, 6/9/2025 11:57 AM, nib wrote:
On 2025-06-09 11:50, tony sayer wrote:
In article <1026blv$fjvp$2@dont-email.me>, GB
<NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> scribeth thus
On 09/06/2025 08:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/06/2025 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:If false why would anyone buy an EV now...either
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and >>>>>> capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with
new battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles
on a single charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge
them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing
battery technology will be obsolete very soon making the second
hand value of the EV close to zero.
They are quiet and comfortable. If you can charge at home,
they are
cheap to run.
For many people, range isn't critical. The furthest I have driven
in one journey in the last 10 years is 130 miles.
If you can charge at home, there are no end of locations where you
can't do that without running cables across the public footpath..
So... if that's you, stick with engines for now. Everyone can't
change at once.
nib
"By end of 2024, more than 27 percent of registered cars in Norway
were battery electric (BEV). 88.9 percent of all new passenger cars
sold were fully electric in 2024. The speed of the transition is
closely related to policy instruments and a wide range of incentives."
*******
In the forums where some of the participants are BEV owners, there is
an admission there that "most people buy used cars, not new cars".
And the reason is the price, the length of the loan and payback
period, and so on.
The new car buyers, are selecting the "stock" the used car buyers
will pick through.
*******
How will it all end ?
We'll be taking lessons from Norwegians...
Paul
On 2025-06-10 08:03, Andy Burns wrote:
nib wrote:
Don't forget to factor in against the few times a year you might need
an in-journey charge with the time saved in the whole of the rest of
the year when you never have to go near a petrol station!
Yesbut ... the time saved will generally go unnoticed, however the
time lost will likely occur at the worst possible occasion ...
Or possibly not! There is a tendency to imagine the worst, which rarely happens.
nib wrote:
Don't forget to factor in against the few times a year you might need an
in-journey charge with the time saved in the whole of the rest of the
year when you never have to go near a petrol station!
Yesbut ... the time saved will generally go unnoticed, however the time
lost will likely occur at the worst possible occasion ...
On 2025-06-09 21:15, NY wrote:
"nib" <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mangveF4bsrU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2025-06-09 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and
capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a
single charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing
battery technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand
value of the EV close to zero.
Possibly because:
Most people buy new cars on a contract such as PCP where they are
insulated from future falls in residual value, and
Many people who have driven an EV would prefer not to switch back to
driving a car with an engine?
If EVs didn't have the huge problem (at present) of taking
dramatically longer to charge than it takes to fill up a tank of
petrol or diesel and then get more range that with the EV, and if they
weren't eye-wateringly expensive, I'd buy one tomorrow - or at least
when my elderly but still perfectly good diesel car finally expires.
I'm sure EVs are a joy to drive, because you don't have to change gear
manually or to endure an automatic which changes at a time other than
when you would want it to if you were driving a manual. I have always
found accelerating smoothly out of a roundabout difficult in an
automatic - whether a 1980s Ford Sierra or a much more recent car
because you either don't accelerate enough and the remains in the
present gear but doesn't get a move on or else with a minute amount
more accelerator transmission changes down to a silly gear which
allows the engine to rev because it has less load on it and the car
lurches forwards: there isn't a way of saying "I'm in third as I
approach, stay in third as I negotiate and accelerate out, and then
change up as I ease off the power having finished accelerating; don't
go down into second and give me kick-in-the-back acceleration". It's
something which is so much easier in a manual where you the driver can
choose when or if you change gear and by how much, and can coordinate
that with the timing of the acceleration that you've planned.
Automatics are great at achieving a smooth gearchange but still, even
in the 2020s, lousy about doing it at the same places in the
acceleration as a manual driver would choose to do it. I always laugh
when people say "automatics are so easy to drive" because I find them
a lot more difficult because I'm "fighting" to remain in control. All
that is a non-issue with an EV.
Once they solve the recharging-time problem (and ideally increase the
range, although an extra stop for a couple of minutes (equivalent to
filling up with diesel) is no great hardship; it's the fact that ever
stop is for a lot longer than you would otherwise stop.
There is the little social problem. Suppose you have friends come to
visit you. You need a social protocol for "can I charge my car on your
drive and reimburse you for the cost of the electricity" because it
seems mean to force your visitors to go out and find a public charger
(on-street or car-park) for their return journey - and make them wait
with the car until it's charged because they want to move it as soon
as it's full so as not to hog the charger.
We haven't mentioned that other benefit that EVs (and some hybrids) have
from making the heating/cooling independent of the engine. That is being
able to go out to your car on a cold winter morning to find the windows de-frosted and dry and the inside nice and warm. Works best with at-home
or on-street charging but also available with charging elsewhere (in
which case it will use up a bit of range). Mine will run the air-con in advance too on a hot day. You can also trigger heating/cooling from the
app, say if you're coming home on the train and your car is waiting in
the station car park.
On 2025-06-10 08:03, Andy Burns wrote:
nib wrote:
Don't forget to factor in against the few times a year you might need
an in-journey charge with the time saved in the whole of the rest of
the year when you never have to go near a petrol station!
Yesbut ... the time saved will generally go unnoticed, however the
time lost will likely occur at the worst possible occasion ...
Or possibly not! There is a tendency to imagine the worst, which rarely happens.
nib
On 10/06/2025 08:55, nib wrote:
On 2025-06-09 21:15, NY wrote:
"nib" <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mangveF4bsrU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2025-06-09 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and
capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a
single charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing
battery technology will be obsolete very soon making the second
hand value of the EV close to zero.
Possibly because:
Most people buy new cars on a contract such as PCP where they are
insulated from future falls in residual value, and
Many people who have driven an EV would prefer not to switch back to
driving a car with an engine?
If EVs didn't have the huge problem (at present) of taking
dramatically longer to charge than it takes to fill up a tank of
petrol or diesel and then get more range that with the EV, and if
they weren't eye-wateringly expensive, I'd buy one tomorrow - or at
least when my elderly but still perfectly good diesel car finally
expires.
I'm sure EVs are a joy to drive, because you don't have to change
gear manually or to endure an automatic which changes at a time other
than when you would want it to if you were driving a manual. I have
always found accelerating smoothly out of a roundabout difficult in
an automatic - whether a 1980s Ford Sierra or a much more recent car
because you either don't accelerate enough and the remains in the
present gear but doesn't get a move on or else with a minute amount
more accelerator transmission changes down to a silly gear which
allows the engine to rev because it has less load on it and the car
lurches forwards: there isn't a way of saying "I'm in third as I
approach, stay in third as I negotiate and accelerate out, and then
change up as I ease off the power having finished accelerating; don't
go down into second and give me kick-in-the-back acceleration". It's
something which is so much easier in a manual where you the driver
can choose when or if you change gear and by how much, and can
coordinate that with the timing of the acceleration that you've
planned. Automatics are great at achieving a smooth gearchange but
still, even in the 2020s, lousy about doing it at the same places in
the acceleration as a manual driver would choose to do it. I always
laugh when people say "automatics are so easy to drive" because I
find them a lot more difficult because I'm "fighting" to remain in
control. All that is a non-issue with an EV.
Once they solve the recharging-time problem (and ideally increase the
range, although an extra stop for a couple of minutes (equivalent to
filling up with diesel) is no great hardship; it's the fact that ever
stop is for a lot longer than you would otherwise stop.
There is the little social problem. Suppose you have friends come to
visit you. You need a social protocol for "can I charge my car on
your drive and reimburse you for the cost of the electricity" because
it seems mean to force your visitors to go out and find a public
charger (on-street or car-park) for their return journey - and make
them wait with the car until it's charged because they want to move
it as soon as it's full so as not to hog the charger.
We haven't mentioned that other benefit that EVs (and some hybrids)
have from making the heating/cooling independent of the engine. That
is being able to go out to your car on a cold winter morning to find
the windows de-frosted and dry and the inside nice and warm. Works
best with at-home or on-street charging but also available with
charging elsewhere (in which case it will use up a bit of range). Mine
will run the air-con in advance too on a hot day. You can also trigger
heating/cooling from the app, say if you're coming home on the train
and your car is waiting in the station car park.
Some diesel vehicles can pre-heat the car with a timed or remotely
controlled diesel heater.
Our EV has a stupid design. We can pre-heat it in winter, but there is
no way to prevent the head and tail-lights coming on while it is
heating, making it look like we are just about to pull out of our
driveway, worrying passing drivers, cyclists and pedestrians ...
particularly the latter, as until they pass the tree at the corner of
our drive and are already right in front of the car, they cannot see
into it.
On 10/06/2025 08:47, nib wrote:
On 2025-06-10 08:03, Andy Burns wrote:Spoken like a true Gren.
nib wrote:
Don't forget to factor in against the few times a year you might need
an in-journey charge with the time saved in the whole of the rest of
the year when you never have to go near a petrol station!
Yesbut ... the time saved will generally go unnoticed, however the
time lost will likely occur at the worst possible occasion ...
Or possibly not! There is a tendency to imagine the worst, which rarely
happens.
'Its incredibly unlikely that the wind across all the UK will fall to
zero on a dark winters night'
On 10 Jun 2025 at 09:54:52 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2025 08:47, nib wrote:
On 2025-06-10 08:03, Andy Burns wrote:Spoken like a true Gren.
nib wrote:
Don't forget to factor in against the few times a year you might need >>>>> an in-journey charge with the time saved in the whole of the rest of >>>>> the year when you never have to go near a petrol station!
Yesbut ... the time saved will generally go unnoticed, however the
time lost will likely occur at the worst possible occasion ...
Or possibly not! There is a tendency to imagine the worst, which rarely
happens.
'Its incredibly unlikely that the wind across all the UK will fall to
zero on a dark winters night'
Yet when it does the UK has a properly designed energy system that can draw from alternative sources.
Spoken like a 'true green'.
Once they solve the [EV] recharging-time problem (and ideally increase the range,
although an extra stop for a couple of minutes (equivalent to filling up
with diesel) is no great hardship; it's the fact that ever stop is for a lot longer than you would otherwise stop.
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
Once they solve the [EV] recharging-time problem (and ideally increase the range,
although an extra stop for a couple of minutes (equivalent to filling up
with diesel) is no great hardship; it's the fact that ever stop is for a lot >> longer than you would otherwise stop.
I’m not sure that belting down a motorway, with all those amps heating the battery, then plugging in to a 300kW charger that will also heat the
battery, is a really good way of preserving battery life.
I’m not sure that belting down a motorway, with all those amps heating the battery, then plugging in to a 300kW charger that will also heat theI though Teslas deliberately heat their battery pack when they know
battery, is a really good way of preserving battery life.
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
Once they solve the [EV] recharging-time problem (and ideally increase
the range, although an extra stop for a couple of minutes (equivalent
to filling up with diesel) is no great hardship; it's the fact that
ever stop is for a lot longer than you would otherwise stop.
Im not sure that belting down a motorway, with all those amps heating
the battery, then plugging in to a 300kW charger that will also heat the battery, is a really good way of preserving battery life.
--
Just because it has kept its coal and nuclear and gas going at great'Its incredibly unlikely that the wind across all the UK will fall to
zero on a dark winters night'
Yet when it does the UK has a properly designed energy system that can draw >> from alternative sources.
expense up till now is no guarantee that it always will
Spike wrote:
I’m not sure that belting down a motorway, with all those amps heatingI though Teslas deliberately heat their battery pack when they know
the
battery, then plugging in to a 300kW charger that will also heat the
battery, is a really good way of preserving battery life.
they're en-route to a fast charger?
On 10 Jun 2025 at 11:35:07 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Just because it has kept its coal and nuclear and gas going at great'Its incredibly unlikely that the wind across all the UK will fall to
zero on a dark winters night'
Yet when it does the UK has a properly designed energy system that can draw >>> from alternative sources.
expense up till now is no guarantee that it always will
Coal is no longer:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/09/30/1104591/uk-coal-global-shutdown/
Nuclear at great expense - yep. Hinkley C has just been (re)announced at eye-watering expense. SMRs in the pipeline. None of which will be online until
2035 at the very earliest. Which means more expensive gas, with all its problems. And biomass - amazingly, still supported.
Until such time as a decent storage solution comes about, and/or the state takes ownership of nuclear, that's what we're stuck with.
Spike wrote:
I’m not sure that belting down a motorway, with all those amps heating the >> battery, then plugging in to a 300kW charger that will also heat theI though Teslas deliberately heat their battery pack when they know they're en-route to a fast charger?
battery, is a really good way of preserving battery life.
On 10 Jun 2025 at 11:35:07 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Just because it has kept its coal and nuclear and gas going at great'Its incredibly unlikely that the wind across all the UK will fall to
zero on a dark winters night'
Yet when it does the UK has a properly designed energy system that can draw >>> from alternative sources.
expense up till now is no guarantee that it always will
Coal is no longer:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/09/30/1104591/uk-coal-global-shutdown/
Nuclear at great expense - yep. Hinkley C has just been (re)announced at eye-watering expense. SMRs in the pipeline. None of which will be online until
2035 at the very earliest. Which means more expensive gas, with all its problems. And biomass - amazingly, still supported.
Until such time as a decent storage solution comes about, and/or the state takes ownership of nuclear, that's what we're stuck with.
On 9 Jun 2025 at 21:15:14 BST, "NY" wrote:
"nib" <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mangveF4bsrU1@mid.individual.net...
On 2025-06-09 07:44, alan_m wrote:
On 08/06/2025 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The battery battle is between weight, charge speed, safety and
capacity/
You can always optimise one at the expense of the others
According to Facebook all these problems have been solved with new
battery technology that can give an EV a range of 600 miles on a single >>>> charge and it only takes 3 minutes to fully charge them :)
If true, :) :) why would anyone buy an EV now when the existing battery >>>> technology will be obsolete very soon making the second hand value of the >>>> EV close to zero.
Possibly because:
Most people buy new cars on a contract such as PCP where they are
insulated from future falls in residual value, and
Many people who have driven an EV would prefer not to switch back to
driving a car with an engine?
If EVs didn't have the huge problem (at present) of taking dramatically
longer to charge than it takes to fill up a tank of petrol or diesel and
then get more range that with the EV, and if they weren't eye-wateringly
expensive, I'd buy one tomorrow - or at least when my elderly but still
perfectly good diesel car finally expires.
If you can charge at home, keeping the car topped up shouldn't be a problem for journeys within its range. So it won't take longer, and will be considerably cheaper. Charging off-site takes the cost of fueling well beyond petrol/diesel - I think 70p/unit isn't untypical. 45p is the average point at which EVs are more expensive (I've read - not done the sums).
But as you've set out, for your use - long journeys with short and infrequent breaks - an EV isn't likely to work. For many it will, though.
Cost of vehicle - agreed. I'll be looking second hand come the time. As I always have - never bought a car new. And EVs do seem to depreciate quite quickly.
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 10 Jun 2025 at 11:35:07 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Just because it has kept its coal and nuclear and gas going at great'Its incredibly unlikely that the wind across all the UK will fall to >>>>> zero on a dark winters night'
Yet when it does the UK has a properly designed energy system that can draw
from alternative sources.
expense up till now is no guarantee that it always will
Coal is no longer:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/09/30/1104591/uk-coal-global-shutdown/ >>
Nuclear at great expense - yep. Hinkley C has just been (re)announced at
eye-watering expense. SMRs in the pipeline. None of which will be online until
2035 at the very earliest. Which means more expensive gas, with all its
problems. And biomass - amazingly, still supported.
Until such time as a decent storage solution comes about, and/or the state >> takes ownership of nuclear, that's what we're stuck with.
Just as a matter of interest, what has the renewables programme cost to
date? This would need to include the subsidies, the cost of upgrading the balancing grid we had with a (much bigger) supply grid, the expensive maintenance of the renewables generators, and the cost of the backup
systems for those periods when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine.
On 10 Jun 2025 at 11:35:07 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Just because it has kept its coal and nuclear and gas going at great'Its incredibly unlikely that the wind across all the UK will fall to
zero on a dark winters night'
Yet when it does the UK has a properly designed energy system that can draw >>> from alternative sources.
expense up till now is no guarantee that it always will
Coal is no longer:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/09/30/1104591/uk-coal-global-shutdown/
Nuclear at great expense - yep. Hinkley C has just been (re)announced at eye-watering expense. SMRs in the pipeline. None of which will be online until
2035 at the very earliest.
problems. And biomass - amazingly, still supported.
Until such time as a decent storage solution comes about, and/or the state takes ownership of nuclear, that's what we're stuck with.
On 10/06/2025 19:56, Spike wrote:
Just as a matter of interest, what has the renewables programme cost to
date? This would need to include the subsidies, the cost of upgrading the
balancing grid we had with a (much bigger) supply grid, the expensive
maintenance of the renewables generators, and the cost of the backup
systems for those periods when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t >> shine.
You only need look at your electricity bill.
I think Kathyrn Porter calculated it.
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 10 Jun 2025 at 11:35:07 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Just because it has kept its coal and nuclear and gas going at great'Its incredibly unlikely that the wind across all the UK will fall to >>>>> zero on a dark winters night'
Yet when it does the UK has a properly designed energy system that can draw
from alternative sources.
expense up till now is no guarantee that it always will
Coal is no longer:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/09/30/1104591/uk-coal-global-shutdown/ >>
Nuclear at great expense - yep. Hinkley C has just been (re)announced at
eye-watering expense. SMRs in the pipeline. None of which will be online until
2035 at the very earliest. Which means more expensive gas, with all its
problems. And biomass - amazingly, still supported.
Until such time as a decent storage solution comes about, and/or the state >> takes ownership of nuclear, that's what we're stuck with.
Just as a matter of interest, what has the renewables programme cost to
date? This would need to include the subsidies, the cost of upgrading the balancing grid we had with a (much bigger) supply grid, the expensive maintenance of the renewables generators, and the cost of the backup
systems for those periods when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine.
On 10 Jun 2025 at 19:56:39 BST, Spike wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 10 Jun 2025 at 11:35:07 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Just because it has kept its coal and nuclear and gas going at great'Its incredibly unlikely that the wind across all the UK will fall to >>>>>> zero on a dark winters night'
Yet when it does the UK has a properly designed energy system that can draw
from alternative sources.
expense up till now is no guarantee that it always will
Coal is no longer:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/09/30/1104591/uk-coal-global-shutdown/
Nuclear at great expense - yep. Hinkley C has just been (re)announced at >>> eye-watering expense. SMRs in the pipeline. None of which will be online until
2035 at the very earliest. Which means more expensive gas, with all its
problems. And biomass - amazingly, still supported.
Until such time as a decent storage solution comes about, and/or the state >>> takes ownership of nuclear, that's what we're stuck with.
Just as a matter of interest, what has the renewables programme cost to
date? This would need to include the subsidies, the cost of upgrading the
balancing grid we had with a (much bigger) supply grid, the expensive
maintenance of the renewables generators, and the cost of the backup
systems for those periods when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t >> shine.
I've no ready answer (but AI has - give it a whirl*) - but would you include 'preventables'? Things like insulation and ASHP grants? I ask because subsidies are aften bundled.
* sample:
Wider system costs
- Backup and grid-balancing for intermittent renewables adds roughly 6% to household bills
- Zonal pricing proposals could increase bills by £3 billion/year (~£100 extra
per household)
theguardian.com
- Industry analysis highlights a discrepancy: government estimates (£44/MWh) vs. actual production costs (£100–150/MWh), indicating higher unsubsidised costs
- Backup and grid-balancing for intermittent renewables adds roughly 6% to household bills
On 11/06/2025 19:16, RJH wrote:
- Backup and grid-balancing for intermittent renewables adds roughly 6% to >> household bills
That's surprisingly low. Where can I read more about that?
Andy
On 11/06/2025 19:16, RJH wrote:
- Backup and grid-balancing for intermittent renewables adds roughly
6% to
household bills
That's surprisingly low. Where can I read more about that?
Andy
https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/05/zodiac_maritime_electric_car_fire/
US Coast Guard and civilian vessels have rescued 22 sailors off the coast
of Alaska after some of the electric cars they were transporting caught
fire.
The good ship Morning Midas - a roll-on, roll-off ferry that was
delivering 3,000 vehicles from Yantai, China, to Lazaro Cardenas, Mexico
- is currently around 304 miles south of Adak, Alaska, the US Coast Guard tells us. The sailors on the vessel, operated by UK-based Zodiac
Maritime, noticed the fire at around midnight UTC on 3 June and were
unable to stop the conflagration.
On 10/06/2025 16:37, RJH wrote:
On 10 Jun 2025 at 11:35:07 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Just because it has kept its coal and nuclear and gas going at great'Its incredibly unlikely that the wind across all the UK will fall to >>>>> zero on a dark winters night'
Yet when it does the UK has a properly designed energy system that can draw
from alternative sources.
expense up till now is no guarantee that it always will
Coal is no longer:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/09/30/1104591/uk-coal-global-shutdown/ >>
Nuclear at great expense - yep. Hinkley C has just been (re)announced at
eye-watering expense. SMRs in the pipeline. None of which will be online until
2035 at the very earliest.
Wanna bet?
You can see Argentinas hole in the ground, has "stuff in it".Doesn't look much like the fabled
Waiting for Santa to come down the chimney and put something
in the center of that hole.
https://www.power-technology.com/features/where-will-the-first-small- modular-nuclear-reactors-be/
Paul wrote:
You can see Argentinas hole in the ground, has "stuff in it".Doesn't look much like the fabled
Waiting for Santa to come down the chimney and put something
in the center of that hole.
https://www.power-technology.com/features/where-will-the-first-small-modular-nuclear-reactors-be/
"made in a factory and delivered in a 40ft trailer".
On 13 Jun 2025 at 21:22:02 BST, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 11/06/2025 19:16, RJH wrote:
- Backup and grid-balancing for intermittent renewables adds roughly 6% to >>> household bills
That's surprisingly low. Where can I read more about that?
Andy
As I said in the original post, AI.
Kathyrn Porter
On 14/06/2025 08:33, RJH wrote:
On 13 Jun 2025 at 21:22:02 BST, Vir Campestris wrote:Ah, so it was made up by an AI rather than a human.
On 11/06/2025 19:16, RJH wrote:
- Backup and grid-balancing for intermittent renewables adds roughly 6% to >>>> household bills
That's surprisingly low. Where can I read more about that?
Andy
As I said in the original post, AI.
(note my sig!)
Andy
Paul wrote:
You can see Argentinas hole in the ground, has "stuff in it".Doesn't look much like the fabled
Waiting for Santa to come down the chimney and put something
in the center of that hole.
https://www.power-technology.com/features/where-will-the-first-small-
modular-nuclear-reactors-be/
"made in a factory and delivered in a 40ft trailer".
On Sun, 6/15/2025 3:50 PM, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 14/06/2025 08:33, RJH wrote:
On 13 Jun 2025 at 21:22:02 BST, Vir Campestris wrote:Ah, so it was made up by an AI rather than a human.
On 11/06/2025 19:16, RJH wrote:
- Backup and grid-balancing for intermittent renewables adds roughly 6% to
household bills
That's surprisingly low. Where can I read more about that?
Andy
As I said in the original post, AI.
(note my sig!)
Andy
Normally, at the end of an Ai response, is a handful of links
used to create the answer. When posting an AI answer, you can
also post the links at the bottom as part of the veracity.
Paul
I would feel much more comfortable, if I could see pictures
of a prototype unit, a turbine hall, evidence of power delivery,
to add credibility to the whole thing. I don't think I have
yet seen one picture of an SMR (except AI hallucination).
I find AI useful in a wikipedia way - gets me in the ballpark of something approaching an answer. Anything more is much harder work.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 498 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 42:26:06 |
| Calls: | 9,799 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 13,752 |
| Messages: | 6,189,651 |
