But I still don't know what's going on with these rear wheels (alloy).
The car is a 9 years- old Honda Jazz, and I've never had a problem with
the wheels or tyres. Recently, though, the tyre deflation warning light
has been coming on once a week or so. However, the tyre pressures have
Just over a week ago I went into the garage and found the nearside rear
tyre flat. A few minutes with the electric tyre pump and it was back to normal, and has stayed inflated. An hour ago I was parked in town and
another driver pointed out the offside rear tyre was flat! No spare
wheel, even a space-saver, but I had an aerosol can of Holts Tyreweld in
the boot. I was amazed when it worked, and I was able to drive a couple
of miles home without problem. I'll get another one as a spare.
But I still don't know what's going on with these rear wheels (alloy).
The car is a 9 years- old Honda Jazz, and I've never had a problem with
the wheels or tyres. Recently, though, the tyre deflation warning light
has been coming on once a week or so. However, the tyre pressures have
always been fine when checked (the deflation warning light has come on several times over the years and it has always been a false alarm). The
tyres are decent (Michelin - Energy I think), and have only done 3000
miles (that's about my annual mileage!). Tread is 5mm.
I'll leave the car overnight to see if the tyre stays inflated. Then I'm
not sure if I should take it to a tyre fitters (National is close) and
have them check the tyres and perhaps wheels, or take it to the Honda
dealers to check if the alloys are still ok. Any comments?
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 16:02:35 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
But I still don't know what's going on with these rear wheels (alloy).
The car is a 9 years- old Honda Jazz, and I've never had a problem with
the wheels or tyres. Recently, though, the tyre deflation warning light
has been coming on once a week or so. However, the tyre pressures have
9 years ... batteries going in the sensors would explain the false alarm
with the pressure warning, but not the actual deflation.
Be prepared for cost as the batteries are not replaceable!
Avpx
I'll leave the car overnight to see if the tyre stays inflated. Then I'm
not sure if I should take it to a tyre fitters (National is close) and have them check the tyres and perhaps wheels, or take it to the Honda dealers to check if the alloys are still ok. Any comments?
Just over a week ago I went into the garage and found the nearside rear
tyre flat. A few minutes with the electric tyre pump and it was back to normal, and has stayed inflated. An hour ago I was parked in town and
another driver pointed out the offside rear tyre was flat! No spare
wheel, even a space-saver, but I had an aerosol can of Holts Tyreweld in
the boot. I was amazed when it worked, and I was able to drive a couple
of miles home without problem. I'll get another one as a spare.
But I still don't know what's going on with these rear wheels (alloy).
The car is a 9 years- old Honda Jazz, and I've never had a problem with
the wheels or tyres. Recently, though, the tyre deflation warning light
has been coming on once a week or so. However, the tyre pressures have
always been fine when checked (the deflation warning light has come on several times over the years and it has always been a false alarm). The
tyres are decent (Michelin - Energy I think), and have only done 3000
miles (that's about my annual mileage!). Tread is 5mm.
I'll leave the car overnight to see if the tyre stays inflated. Then I'm
not sure if I should take it to a tyre fitters (National is close) and
have them check the tyres and perhaps wheels, or take it to the Honda
dealers to check if the alloys are still ok. Any comments?
On 2025-06-06 16:09, The Nomad wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 16:02:35 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
But I still don't know what's going on with these rear wheels (alloy).
The car is a 9 years- old Honda Jazz, and I've never had a problem with
the wheels or tyres. Recently, though, the tyre deflation warning light
has been coming on once a week or so. However, the tyre pressures have
9 years ... batteries going in the sensors would explain the false alarm
with the pressure warning, but not the actual deflation.
Be prepared for cost as the batteries are not replaceable!
Avpx
That's only true for the type that have pressure measuring gadgets in
each tyre! Most (or lots anyway) cars just use differential rotation
speeds from the ABS sensors to look for possible deflation.
But I still don't know what's going on with these rear wheels (alloy).
On 06/06/2025 16:02, Jeff Layman wrote:
Just over a week ago I went into the garage and found the nearside
rear tyre flat. A few minutes with the electric tyre pump and it
was back to normal, and has stayed inflated. An hour ago I was
parked in town and another driver pointed out the offside rear tyre
was flat! No spare wheel, even a space-saver, but I had an aerosol
can of Holts Tyreweld in the boot. I was amazed when it worked, and
I was able to drive a couple of miles home without problem. I'll
get another one as a spare.
But I still don't know what's going on with these rear wheels
(alloy). The car is a 9 years- old Honda Jazz, and I've never had a
problem with the wheels or tyres. Recently, though, the tyre
deflation warning light has been coming on once a week or so.
However, the tyre pressures have always been fine when checked (the deflation warning light has come on several times over the years
and it has always been a false alarm). The tyres are decent
(Michelin - Energy I think), and have only done 3000 miles (that's
about my annual mileage!). Tread is 5mm.
I'll leave the car overnight to see if the tyre stays inflated.
Then I'm not sure if I should take it to a tyre fitters (National
is close) and have them check the tyres and perhaps wheels, or take
it to the Honda dealers to check if the alloys are still ok. Any
comments?
Recently on my car (Ford) it was a dodgy valve. I could go 200 miles
without problems and then overnight 32 psi down to 16 psi. This was indicated by the TPMS (Tyre Pressure Monitoring System). My local
back street tyre shop had the valves with the attachment to take the
type of monitor Ford use in stock.
Because of TPMS concerns/costs tyre shops tend not to replace the
values these days when you get new tyres.
Tyre pressures can change with temperature and driving. If your
monitor is calibrated for the tyre pressure set during the summer and
now it is winter and one or more of the tyres is marginal then you
may get a warning that goes away after a short drive of the daytime temperature rises.
On my car it is a user calibration. Inflate tyres to specification
and I can select the TPMS reset via a button on the steering wheel
selecting a menu that comes up on my dash.
Each of the sensors will have a "10 year" lithium battery cell and
after 9 years coming to the end of their life.
The battery is probably non-replaceable BUT.... https://youtu.be/EtZWndK1gE8?t=196
Alloy wheels might be much lighter and not need hubcaps, but they have brought their own problems. And as for TPMS, it has certainly caused me
very much more trouble than it's worth, as I can't think of a single
occasion in more than half a century of driving where I would have
benefited from it. And that's starting in the days when I got a real
puncture maybe every month, the road seemed to be littered with nails
and screws. I can't remember when I last had a puncture, and it must
have been more than eight years ago.
The battery is probably non-replaceable BUT....
https://youtu.be/EtZWndK1gE8?t=196
Just over a week ago I went into the garage and found the nearside rear
tyre flat. A few minutes with the electric tyre pump and it was back to >normal, and has stayed inflated. An hour ago I was parked in town and
another driver pointed out the offside rear tyre was flat! No spare
wheel, even a space-saver, but I had an aerosol can of Holts Tyreweld
in the boot. I was amazed when it worked, and I was able to drive a
couple of miles home without problem. I'll get another one as a spare.
But I still don't know what's going on with these rear wheels (alloy).
The car is a 9 years- old Honda Jazz, and I've never had a problem with
the wheels or tyres. Recently, though, the tyre deflation warning light
has been coming on once a week or so. However, the tyre pressures have
always been fine when checked (the deflation warning light has come on >several times over the years and it has always been a false alarm). The
tyres are decent (Michelin - Energy I think), and have only done 3000
miles (that's about my annual mileage!). Tread is 5mm.
I'll leave the car overnight to see if the tyre stays inflated. Then
I'm not sure if I should take it to a tyre fitters (National is close)
and have them check the tyres and perhaps wheels, or take it to the
Honda dealers to check if the alloys are still ok. Any comments?
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 17:45:17 +0100
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On 06/06/2025 16:02, Jeff Layman wrote:
Just over a week ago I went into the garage and found the nearside
rear tyre flat. A few minutes with the electric tyre pump and it
was back to normal, and has stayed inflated. An hour ago I was
parked in town and another driver pointed out the offside rear tyre
was flat! No spare wheel, even a space-saver, but I had an aerosol
can of Holts Tyreweld in the boot. I was amazed when it worked, and
I was able to drive a couple of miles home without problem. I'll
get another one as a spare.
But I still don't know what's going on with these rear wheels
(alloy). The car is a 9 years- old Honda Jazz, and I've never had a
problem with the wheels or tyres. Recently, though, the tyre
deflation warning light has been coming on once a week or so.
However, the tyre pressures have always been fine when checked (the
deflation warning light has come on several times over the years
and it has always been a false alarm). The tyres are decent
(Michelin - Energy I think), and have only done 3000 miles (that's
about my annual mileage!). Tread is 5mm.
I'll leave the car overnight to see if the tyre stays inflated.
Then I'm not sure if I should take it to a tyre fitters (National
is close) and have them check the tyres and perhaps wheels, or take
it to the Honda dealers to check if the alloys are still ok. Any
comments?
Recently on my car (Ford) it was a dodgy valve. I could go 200 miles
without problems and then overnight 32 psi down to 16 psi. This was
indicated by the TPMS (Tyre Pressure Monitoring System). My local
back street tyre shop had the valves with the attachment to take the
type of monitor Ford use in stock.
Because of TPMS concerns/costs tyre shops tend not to replace the
values these days when you get new tyres.
Tyre pressures can change with temperature and driving. If your
monitor is calibrated for the tyre pressure set during the summer and
now it is winter and one or more of the tyres is marginal then you
may get a warning that goes away after a short drive of the daytime
temperature rises.
On my car it is a user calibration. Inflate tyres to specification
and I can select the TPMS reset via a button on the steering wheel
selecting a menu that comes up on my dash.
Each of the sensors will have a "10 year" lithium battery cell and
after 9 years coming to the end of their life.
The battery is probably non-replaceable BUT....
https://youtu.be/EtZWndK1gE8?t=196
I can't account for sudden deflation, but there are problems with alloy wheels. They don't hold air as well as steel wheels because, as
mentioned earlier, corrosion makes the rim rough and irregular. It also occurs around the valve seat, and valves with TPMS sensors hanging on
the back suffer more vibration than those without. So I suppose it's
barely plausible than a pothole caused a larger movement than usual in
the valve base and left it in a position that leaks more. Certainly my
local tyre fitter reckons it's only valves with TPMS sensors which get
much leakage trouble.
I've had increasing trouble with tyre leakage over a few years, and
finally became willing to spend a bit of money. I've had a 'tyre
sensors not found' message on journeys of more than about five miles
for a while, but the system is not clever enough to tell me which
one(s). I've noticed the 'pressure low' warning comes on only after
about 40% loss of pressure, which is almost useless.
My local small tyre fitter doesn't do TPMS pairing, or whatever they
need. I finally went to a larger tyre business (not a chain) and they replaced one sensor and removed corrosion from all four valve seats and fitted new valves. Problem solved, and at a not utterly appalling
£122. It turned out, of course, that the one wheel which wasn't losing
air was the one with the duff sensor.
By the way, a year or so ago I replaced (eventually) the front pads,
which is probably about as far as I want to go these days. I could not
remove the wheel nuts, properly called lugs. I have metric, imperial
and Whitworth sockets, and none of them fitted, nor the four ends of a wheelbrace. It turns out that rather than chrome-plated steel lugs, Ford
fits chrome-plated aluminium covers to steel lugs, presumably to save a
few pence per lug. Two dissimilar metals, moisture... After quite a lot
of effort, I bought proper chromed steel lugs on ebay and took them to
my local tyre fitter to change, which they did with no trouble. Well,
with a bit of hammering.
Next hurdle: I couldn't get the wheels off. Aluminium and steel again. Slacken all the lugs, lower the wheel to the ground and drive the car
gently forward and back, hit the brakes, not the slightest movement. Eventually, after consulting Google, I used progressively larger chunks
of wood to bang the wheel on alternate sides, and finally it came loose.
Alloy wheels might be much lighter and not need hubcaps, but they have brought their own problems. And as for TPMS, it has certainly caused me
very much more trouble than it's worth, as I can't think of a single
occasion in more than half a century of driving where I would have
benefited from it. And that's starting in the days when I got a real
puncture maybe every month, the road seemed to be littered with nails
and screws. I can't remember when I last had a puncture, and it must
have been more than eight years ago.
Just over a week ago I went into the garage and found the nearside rear
tyre flat. A few minutes with the electric tyre pump and it was back to normal, and has stayed inflated. An hour ago I was parked in town and
another driver pointed out the offside rear tyre was flat! No spare
wheel, even a space-saver, but I had an aerosol can of Holts Tyreweld in
the boot. I was amazed when it worked, and I was able to drive a couple
of miles home without problem. I'll get another one as a spare.
But I still don't know what's going on with these rear wheels (alloy).
The car is a 9 years- old Honda Jazz, and I've never had a problem with
the wheels or tyres. Recently, though, the tyre deflation warning light
has been coming on once a week or so. However, the tyre pressures have
always been fine when checked (the deflation warning light has come on several times over the years and it has always been a false alarm). The
tyres are decent (Michelin - Energy I think), and have only done 3000
miles (that's about my annual mileage!). Tread is 5mm.
Just over a week ago I went into the garage and found the nearside rear
tyre flat. A few minutes with the electric tyre pump and it was back to normal, and has stayed inflated. An hour ago I was parked in town and
another driver pointed out the offside rear tyre was flat! No spare
wheel, even a space-saver, but I had an aerosol can of Holts Tyreweld in
the boot. I was amazed when it worked, and I was able to drive a couple
of miles home without problem. I'll get another one as a spare.
But I still don't know what's going on with these rear wheels (alloy).
The car is a 9 years- old Honda Jazz, and I've never had a problem with
the wheels or tyres. Recently, though, the tyre deflation warning light
has been coming on once a week or so. However, the tyre pressures have
always been fine when checked (the deflation warning light has come on several times over the years and it has always been a false alarm). The
tyres are decent (Michelin - Energy I think), and have only done 3000
miles (that's about my annual mileage!). Tread is 5mm.
I'll leave the car overnight to see if the tyre stays inflated. Then I'm
not sure if I should take it to a tyre fitters (National is close) and
have them check the tyres and perhaps wheels, or take it to the Honda
dealers to check if the alloys are still ok. Any comments?
Not the same problem as you, but I had a tyre which deflated over time,
many days. The tyre fitters didn't find any leak. I asked them to try a >little harder and they then found a very slow leak on the valve. That
fixed, it's been fine since.
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 15:46:25 +0100, nib <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk>
wrote:
Not the same problem as you, but I had a tyre which deflated over
time, many days. The tyre fitters didn't find any leak. I asked them
to try a little harder and they then found a very slow leak on the
valve. That fixed, it's been fine since.
That one's easy: spit rubbed over the end of the valve...
More thoroughly and less ad-hoc: soapy water on the valve end and
stem, possibly on the rim where rubber and allow meet.
Lots of
dishwashing liquid, not much water, so it's bit thick and stays.
Not much trouble, and might find a leak.
Just over a week ago I went into the garage and found the nearside rear
tyre flat. A few minutes with the electric tyre pump and it was back to normal, and has stayed inflated. An hour ago I was parked in town and
another driver pointed out the offside rear tyre was flat! No spare
wheel, even a space-saver, but I had an aerosol can of Holts Tyreweld in
the boot. I was amazed when it worked, and I was able to drive a couple
of miles home without problem. I'll get another one as a spare.
But I still don't know what's going on with these rear wheels (alloy).
The car is a 9 years- old Honda Jazz, and I've never had a problem with
the wheels or tyres. Recently, though, the tyre deflation warning light
has been coming on once a week or so. However, the tyre pressures have
always been fine when checked (the deflation warning light has come on several times over the years and it has always been a false alarm). The
tyres are decent (Michelin - Energy I think), and have only done 3000
miles (that's about my annual mileage!). Tread is 5mm.
I'll leave the car overnight to see if the tyre stays inflated. Then I'm
not sure if I should take it to a tyre fitters (National is close) and
have them check the tyres and perhaps wheels, or take it to the Honda
dealers to check if the alloys are still ok. Any comments?
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:102728n$hc1j$1@dont-email.me:
I took the car into National (Halfords) for a free check. They said
that the tyres were just old and the rubber was at the end of its
life, and so the air was leaking.
They are full of shit!
Look to the other replies in this thread for the true answer.
Yes, if you buy new tyres from fear-is-the-key.com they will likely wire brush loose lacquer and corrosion from the rim before fitting which will cover the problem but you do not need to shell out on a set of new tyres to resolve the original issue.
I took the car into National (Halfords) for a free check. They said
that the tyres were just old and the rubber was at the end of its
life, and so the air was leaking.
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:102728n$hc1j$1@dont-email.me:
I took the car into National (Halfords) for a free check. They said
that the tyres were just old and the rubber was at the end of its
life, and so the air was leaking.
They are full of shit!
fred <not@for.mail> wrote:
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:102728n$hc1j$1@dont-email.me:
I took the car into National (Halfords) for a free check. They said
that the tyres were just old and the rubber was at the end of its
life, and so the air was leaking.
They are full of shit!
You missed the bit about the tyres being 10 years old?
https://blog.greenflag.com/2025/old-tyres/
Tim
On 10/06/2025 09:11, Tim+ wrote:
fred <not@for.mail> wrote:
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:102728n$hc1j$1@dont-email.me:
I took the car into National (Halfords) for a free check. They said
that the tyres were just old and the rubber was at the end of its
life, and so the air was leaking.
They are full of shit!
You missed the bit about the tyres being 10 years old?
https://blog.greenflag.com/2025/old-tyres/
Tim
I'd also been sceptical until I did an internet search and found it was
a real problem. It's better to be safe than sorry. Even if it was "only"
the rims/lacquer how much would a garage charge to remove the tyres, rub
down and relacquer the wheels, refit the original tyres (new valves?),
and rebalance? My guess is that I wouldn't get much change from £100. A
pair of new tyres will all that will cost only £80 more or so, and I'll /feel/ safe - which means a lot.
And I won't have to keep worrying about the tyres going flat every few days...
fred <not@for.mail> wrote:
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:102728n$hc1j$1@dont-email.me:
I took the car into National (Halfords) for a free check. They said
that the tyres were just old and the rubber was at the end of its
life, and so the air was leaking.
They are full of shit!
You missed the bit about the tyres being 10 years old?
https://blog.greenflag.com/2025/old-tyres/
Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote in news:711851013.771231306.801252.timdownieuk- yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net:
fred <not@for.mail> wrote:
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:102728n$hc1j$1@dont-email.me:
I took the car into National (Halfords) for a free check. They said
that the tyres were just old and the rubber was at the end of its
life, and so the air was leaking.
They are full of shit!
You missed the bit about the tyres being 10 years old?
Not at all . . .
https://blog.greenflag.com/2025/old-tyres/
Gosh, another party with a vested interest and talking specifically about heavily loaded HGV tyres.
And:
"There are currently no plans to ban car tyres older than 10 years from regular cars."
In short, older tyres not found to be in poor condition remain air tight
and safe to use outside the specifics of heavily loaded HGV and PSV applications.
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front wheels
every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
On 10/06/2025 11:31, fred wrote:
Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote in
news:711851013.771231306.801252.timdownieuk-
yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net:
fred <not@for.mail> wrote:
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:102728n$hc1j$1@dont-email.me:
I took the car into National (Halfords) for a free check. They
said that the tyres were just old and the rubber was at the end of
its life, and so the air was leaking.
They are full of shit!
You missed the bit about the tyres being 10 years old?
Not at all . . .
https://blog.greenflag.com/2025/old-tyres/
Gosh, another party with a vested interest and talking specifically
about heavily loaded HGV tyres.
And:
"There are currently no plans to ban car tyres older than 10 years
from regular cars."
In short, older tyres not found to be in poor condition remain air
tight and safe to use outside the specifics of heavily loaded HGV and
PSV applications.
Where do you get the "heavily loaded HGV" from? The Highway Code
states:
-------------------------------------------------------
Tyre age. Tyres over 10 years old MUST NOT be used on the front axles
of:
- goods vehicles with a maximum gross weight of more than 3.5
tonnes - passenger vehicles with more than 8 passenger seats
Additionally, they MUST NOT be used on the rear axles of passenger
vehicles with 9 to 16 passenger seats, unless equipped with twin
wheels. -------------------------------------------------------
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front wheels
every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre tread)
rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should go
on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a car for any
length of time is get two new tyres when the fronts wear out but put
these on the back.
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front wheels
every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre tread)
rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should go
on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a car for any
length of time is get two new tyres when the fronts wear out but put
these on the back.
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front wheels
every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre tread)
rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should go
on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a car for any
length of time is get two new tyres when the fronts wear out but put
these on the back.
On 10/06/2025 19:30, alan_m wrote:
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front wheels
every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre tread)
rather than just two.
Not if you check the tread depths - which is done for an MOT anyway.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should go
on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a car for any
length of time is get two new tyres when the fronts wear out but put
these on the back.
On a front wheel drive car the back tyres just don't wear. Mine have
done 38000 miles and the tread depth is 5mm.
On 10/06/2025 21:54, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 10/06/2025 19:30, alan_m wrote:On my Defender, bought from new, all tyres were sill legal at 50,000 miles
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front wheels
every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre tread)
rather than just two.
Not if you check the tread depths - which is done for an MOT anyway.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should go >>> on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a car for any
length of time is get two new tyres when the fronts wear out but put
these on the back.
On a front wheel drive car the back tyres just don't wear. Mine have
done 38000 miles and the tread depth is 5mm.
On 10/06/2025 19:30, alan_m wrote:
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front wheels
every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre tread)
rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should
go on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a car for any
length of time is get two new tyres when the fronts wear out but put
these on the back.
It is recommended that new tyres go onto the rear of a vehicle,
regardless of whether it's front or rear wheel drive. The idea is that
the rear wheels losing grip, on heavy braking, can mean the rear end
passing the front!
sill legal at 50,000 milesTry low profile Y rated tyres with 630NM of torque. 15000 miles from a
My recent tyre change was carried out at a main dealer rather than a
tyre specialist.
When I asked to have the new tyres on the rear & the rear tyres placed
on the front they asked why.
My reply was that it was some thing I read in a motoring magazine years
ago & confirmed by 2 local tyre shops over the years. The logic being
that they are not going to make themselves extra unpaid work if it
wasn't the correct thing to do.
The main dealer sevice manager said that for a front wheel drive car you
need the maximum tread on the front for grip & steering.
On 10/06/2025 23:21, SteveW wrote:
On 10/06/2025 19:30, alan_m wrote:
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front wheels
every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre tread)
rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should
go on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a car for
any length of time is get two new tyres when the fronts wear out but
put these on the back.
It is recommended that new tyres go onto the rear of a vehicle,
regardless of whether it's front or rear wheel drive. The idea is that
the rear wheels losing grip, on heavy braking, can mean the rear end
passing the front!
My recent tyre change was carried out at a main dealer rather than a
tyre specialist.
When I asked to have the new tyres on the rear & the rear tyres placed
on the front they asked why.
My reply was that it was some thing I read in a motoring magazine years
ago & confirmed by 2 local tyre shops over the years. The logic being
that they are not going to make themselves extra unpaid work if it
wasn't the correct thing to do.
The main dealer sevice manager said that for a front wheel drive car you
need the maximum tread on the front for grip & steering.
On 11/06/2025 08:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
sill legal at 50,000 milesTry low profile Y rated tyres with 630NM of torque. 15000 miles from a
set of rears is absolute luxury.
On 11/06/2025 09:54, wasbit wrote:
On 10/06/2025 23:21, SteveW wrote:There is logic in that. In FWD the rear wheels are simply there to stop
On 10/06/2025 19:30, alan_m wrote:
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front wheels
every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre tread)
rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should
go on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a car for
any length of time is get two new tyres when the fronts wear out but
put these on the back.
It is recommended that new tyres go onto the rear of a vehicle,
regardless of whether it's front or rear wheel drive. The idea is that
the rear wheels losing grip, on heavy braking, can mean the rear end
passing the front!
My recent tyre change was carried out at a main dealer rather than a
tyre specialist.
When I asked to have the new tyres on the rear & the rear tyres placed
on the front they asked why.
My reply was that it was some thing I read in a motoring magazine years
ago & confirmed by 2 local tyre shops over the years. The logic being
that they are not going to make themselves extra unpaid work if it
wasn't the correct thing to do.
The main dealer sevice manager said that for a front wheel drive car you
need the maximum tread on the front for grip & steering.
the car dragging its arse along the ground...
..I have vivid memories of Jan Lammers launching his Volvo Estate Toting
Car into Stowe corner at Silverstone race track at around 110mph with
the rear wheel cocked so high that the commentator said 'And his car
learnt that from its usual Labrador passenger'
https://www.footmanjames.co.uk/blog/the-volvo-850s-unexpected-btcc-racing-debut
On 11/06/2025 10:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/06/2025 09:54, wasbit wrote:
On 10/06/2025 23:21, SteveW wrote:There is logic in that. In FWD the rear wheels are simply there to stop
On 10/06/2025 19:30, alan_m wrote:
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front wheels >>>>>> every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre tread) >>>>> rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should >>>>> go on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a car for
any length of time is get two new tyres when the fronts wear out but >>>>> put these on the back.
It is recommended that new tyres go onto the rear of a vehicle,
regardless of whether it's front or rear wheel drive. The idea is that >>>> the rear wheels losing grip, on heavy braking, can mean the rear end
passing the front!
My recent tyre change was carried out at a main dealer rather than a
tyre specialist.
When I asked to have the new tyres on the rear & the rear tyres placed
on the front they asked why.
My reply was that it was some thing I read in a motoring magazine years
ago & confirmed by 2 local tyre shops over the years. The logic being
that they are not going to make themselves extra unpaid work if it
wasn't the correct thing to do.
The main dealer sevice manager said that for a front wheel drive car you >>> need the maximum tread on the front for grip & steering.
the car dragging its arse along the ground...
Absolutely correct. With front-wheel drive the car is effectively pulled along. If the rear tyres lose grip, gentle acceleration is what is
required to straighten it out. It doesn't really matter how much grip
the rears have - if the fronts lose grip you really *are* in trouble! No traction to pull the car and no traction to steer... :-(
On 11/06/2025 18:41, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 11/06/2025 10:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/06/2025 09:54, wasbit wrote:
On 10/06/2025 23:21, SteveW wrote:There is logic in that. In FWD the rear wheels are simply there to stop
On 10/06/2025 19:30, alan_m wrote:
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front wheels >>>>>>> every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre tread) >>>>>> rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should >>>>>> go on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a car for >>>>>> any length of time is get two new tyres when the fronts wear out but >>>>>> put these on the back.
It is recommended that new tyres go onto the rear of a vehicle,
regardless of whether it's front or rear wheel drive. The idea is that >>>>> the rear wheels losing grip, on heavy braking, can mean the rear end >>>>> passing the front!
My recent tyre change was carried out at a main dealer rather than a
tyre specialist.
When I asked to have the new tyres on the rear & the rear tyres placed >>>> on the front they asked why.
My reply was that it was some thing I read in a motoring magazine years >>>> ago & confirmed by 2 local tyre shops over the years. The logic being
that they are not going to make themselves extra unpaid work if it
wasn't the correct thing to do.
The main dealer sevice manager said that for a front wheel drive car
you
need the maximum tread on the front for grip & steering.
the car dragging its arse along the ground...
Absolutely correct. With front-wheel drive the car is effectively
pulled along. If the rear tyres lose grip, gentle acceleration is what
is required to straighten it out. It doesn't really matter how much
grip the rears have - if the fronts lose grip you really *are* in
trouble! No traction to pull the car and no traction to steer... :-(
Michelin's Technical Manager advised to always put the new tyres on the
rear. According to him, if the fronts begin to lose grip, the car will
gently understeer and backing off the throttle will bring it back under control, while if the rear lose grip, the car is likely to snap into
severe oversteer.
Tests by Auto Express confirmed the recommendation.
On 11/06/2025 09:54, wasbit wrote:
My recent tyre change was carried out at a main dealer rather than a
tyre specialist.
When I asked to have the new tyres on the rear & the rear tyres placed
on the front they asked why.
My reply was that it was some thing I read in a motoring magazine
years ago & confirmed by 2 local tyre shops over the years. The logic
being that they are not going to make themselves extra unpaid work if
it wasn't the correct thing to do.
The main dealer sevice manager said that for a front wheel drive car
you need the maximum tread on the front for grip & steering.
So you ignored the advice from 3 different sources in favour of the
advice given by a service manager who's skill is in admin. :)
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should go
on the rear […]
What’s the thinking behind that?
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should go
on the rear […]
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should go
on the rear […]
What’s the thinking behind that?
On 11/06/2025 23:58, SteveW wrote:
On 11/06/2025 18:41, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 11/06/2025 10:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/06/2025 09:54, wasbit wrote:
On 10/06/2025 23:21, SteveW wrote:There is logic in that. In FWD the rear wheels are simply there to stop >>>> the car dragging its arse along the ground...
On 10/06/2025 19:30, alan_m wrote:
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front wheels >>>>>>>> every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre
tread)
rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes
should
go on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a car for >>>>>>> any length of time is get two new tyres when the fronts wear out but >>>>>>> put these on the back.
It is recommended that new tyres go onto the rear of a vehicle,
regardless of whether it's front or rear wheel drive. The idea is
that
the rear wheels losing grip, on heavy braking, can mean the rear end >>>>>> passing the front!
My recent tyre change was carried out at a main dealer rather than a >>>>> tyre specialist.
When I asked to have the new tyres on the rear & the rear tyres placed >>>>> on the front they asked why.
My reply was that it was some thing I read in a motoring magazine
years
ago & confirmed by 2 local tyre shops over the years. The logic being >>>>> that they are not going to make themselves extra unpaid work if it
wasn't the correct thing to do.
The main dealer sevice manager said that for a front wheel drive
car you
need the maximum tread on the front for grip & steering.
Absolutely correct. With front-wheel drive the car is effectively
pulled along. If the rear tyres lose grip, gentle acceleration is
what is required to straighten it out. It doesn't really matter how
much grip the rears have - if the fronts lose grip you really *are*
in trouble! No traction to pull the car and no traction to steer... :-(
Michelin's Technical Manager advised to always put the new tyres on
the rear. According to him, if the fronts begin to lose grip, the car
will gently understeer and backing off the throttle will bring it back
under control, while if the rear lose grip, the car is likely to snap
into severe oversteer.
From the Uniroyal web pages
"Do you fit the new tyres at the front or back? Regardless of the drive
type, we recommend not fitting the better tyres at the front, but always fitting them at the back. The reason is simple: The rear axle ensures
the tracking stability of a vehicle."
The above is the recommendation when only replacing two tyres.
In the same page they also recommend rotating tyres (front to back and visa-versa) every six months to even out the wear.
From the Michelin web site
"When replacing just two tyres, Michelin recommends that the new or
least worn tyres are fitted to the rear axle to improve vehicle control
and safety. This advice applies to front and rear wheel drive vehicles
fitted with the same tyre sizes front and rear."
Again, this is on a page that suggests tyre rotation every 8,000km
On 11/06/2025 18:41, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 11/06/2025 10:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/06/2025 09:54, wasbit wrote:
On 10/06/2025 23:21, SteveW wrote:There is logic in that. In FWD the rear wheels are simply there to stop
On 10/06/2025 19:30, alan_m wrote:
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front wheels >>>>>>> every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre tread) >>>>>> rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes should >>>>>> go on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a car for >>>>>> any length of time is get two new tyres when the fronts wear out but >>>>>> put these on the back.
It is recommended that new tyres go onto the rear of a vehicle,
regardless of whether it's front or rear wheel drive. The idea is that >>>>> the rear wheels losing grip, on heavy braking, can mean the rear end >>>>> passing the front!
My recent tyre change was carried out at a main dealer rather than a
tyre specialist.
When I asked to have the new tyres on the rear & the rear tyres placed >>>> on the front they asked why.
My reply was that it was some thing I read in a motoring magazine years >>>> ago & confirmed by 2 local tyre shops over the years. The logic being
that they are not going to make themselves extra unpaid work if it
wasn't the correct thing to do.
The main dealer sevice manager said that for a front wheel drive car
you
need the maximum tread on the front for grip & steering.
the car dragging its arse along the ground...
Absolutely correct. With front-wheel drive the car is effectively
pulled along. If the rear tyres lose grip, gentle acceleration is what
is required to straighten it out. It doesn't really matter how much
grip the rears have - if the fronts lose grip you really *are* in
trouble! No traction to pull the car and no traction to steer... :-(
Michelin's Technical Manager advised to always put the new tyres on the
rear. According to him, if the fronts begin to lose grip, the car will
gently understeer and backing off the throttle will bring it back under control, while if the rear lose grip, the car is likely to snap into
severe oversteer.
All this predicated on the basis that sliding head on into a truck on a
wet motorway is preferable to spinning on a wet roundabout. If indeed
that is possible with an FWD car -
I've only ever done that once as a 1st year driver when I took my foot
off the accelerator in a tightening corner.
In Minis it was nearly impossible to break the back out without using
the handbrake,.
As I said, rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools
AFAIAC its utterly dependent what vehicle it is for me. Ive had
oversteer and understeer moments in everything I have driven - once in
the same car within a second of each other as first the front wheels,
then the rear, hit a small patch of ice.
The *only thing you need tread for is for wet roads*. Race cars drive slicks. in the dry.
And the only time the tread really makes any difference is when the
sipes get overloaded by water and start to aquaplane.
Personally I prefer to keep control of the front. I do not like having
no steering. I can control a rear wheel slide with steering bit I cant control a car that has no steering.
On 11/06/2025 23:58, SteveW wrote:
On 11/06/2025 18:41, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 11/06/2025 10:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/06/2025 09:54, wasbit wrote:
On 10/06/2025 23:21, SteveW wrote:There is logic in that. In FWD the rear wheels are simply there
On 10/06/2025 19:30, alan_m wrote:
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front
wheels every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre
tread) rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes
should go on the rear so possibly the best solution if you
have a car for any length of time is get two new tyres when
the fronts wear out but put these on the back.
It is recommended that new tyres go onto the rear of a vehicle,
regardless of whether it's front or rear wheel drive. The idea
is that the rear wheels losing grip, on heavy braking, can mean
the rear end passing the front!
My recent tyre change was carried out at a main dealer rather
than a tyre specialist.
When I asked to have the new tyres on the rear & the rear tyres
placed on the front they asked why.
My reply was that it was some thing I read in a motoring
magazine years ago & confirmed by 2 local tyre shops over the
years. The logic being that they are not going to make
themselves extra unpaid work if it wasn't the correct thing to
do. The main dealer sevice manager said that for a front wheel
drive car you
need the maximum tread on the front for grip & steering.
to stop the car dragging its arse along the ground...
Absolutely correct. With front-wheel drive the car is effectively
pulled along. If the rear tyres lose grip, gentle acceleration is
what is required to straighten it out. It doesn't really matter
how much grip the rears have - if the fronts lose grip you really
*are* in trouble! No traction to pull the car and no traction to
steer... :-(
Michelin's Technical Manager advised to always put the new tyres on
the rear. According to him, if the fronts begin to lose grip, the
car will gently understeer and backing off the throttle will bring
it back under control, while if the rear lose grip, the car is
likely to snap into severe oversteer.
From the Uniroyal web pages
"Do you fit the new tyres at the front or back? Regardless of the
drive type, we recommend not fitting the better tyres at the front,
but always fitting them at the back. The reason is simple: The rear
axle ensures the tracking stability of a vehicle."
The above is the recommendation when only replacing two tyres.
In the same page they also recommend rotating tyres (front to back
and visa-versa) every six months to even out the wear.
From the Michelin web site
"When replacing just two tyres, Michelin recommends that the new or
least worn tyres are fitted to the rear axle to improve vehicle
control and safety. This advice applies to front and rear wheel drive vehicles fitted with the same tyre sizes front and rear."
Again, this is on a page that suggests tyre rotation every 8,000km
On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 12:30:32 +0100
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On 11/06/2025 23:58, SteveW wrote:
On 11/06/2025 18:41, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 11/06/2025 10:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/06/2025 09:54, wasbit wrote:
On 10/06/2025 23:21, SteveW wrote:There is logic in that. In FWD the rear wheels are simply there
On 10/06/2025 19:30, alan_m wrote:
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front >>>>>>>>> wheels every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low tyre >>>>>>>> tread) rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best tryes >>>>>>>> should go on the rear so possibly the best solution if you
have a car for any length of time is get two new tyres when
the fronts wear out but put these on the back.
It is recommended that new tyres go onto the rear of a vehicle,
regardless of whether it's front or rear wheel drive. The idea
is that the rear wheels losing grip, on heavy braking, can mean
the rear end passing the front!
My recent tyre change was carried out at a main dealer rather
than a tyre specialist.
When I asked to have the new tyres on the rear & the rear tyres
placed on the front they asked why.
My reply was that it was some thing I read in a motoring
magazine years ago & confirmed by 2 local tyre shops over the
years. The logic being that they are not going to make
themselves extra unpaid work if it wasn't the correct thing to
do. The main dealer sevice manager said that for a front wheel
drive car you
need the maximum tread on the front for grip & steering.
to stop the car dragging its arse along the ground...
Absolutely correct. With front-wheel drive the car is effectively
pulled along. If the rear tyres lose grip, gentle acceleration is
what is required to straighten it out. It doesn't really matter
how much grip the rears have - if the fronts lose grip you really
*are* in trouble! No traction to pull the car and no traction to
steer... :-(
Michelin's Technical Manager advised to always put the new tyres on
the rear. According to him, if the fronts begin to lose grip, the
car will gently understeer and backing off the throttle will bring
it back under control, while if the rear lose grip, the car is
likely to snap into severe oversteer.
From the Uniroyal web pages
"Do you fit the new tyres at the front or back? Regardless of the
drive type, we recommend not fitting the better tyres at the front,
but always fitting them at the back. The reason is simple: The rear
axle ensures the tracking stability of a vehicle."
The above is the recommendation when only replacing two tyres.
In the same page they also recommend rotating tyres (front to back
and visa-versa) every six months to even out the wear.
From the Michelin web site
"When replacing just two tyres, Michelin recommends that the new or
least worn tyres are fitted to the rear axle to improve vehicle
control and safety. This advice applies to front and rear wheel drive
vehicles fitted with the same tyre sizes front and rear."
Again, this is on a page that suggests tyre rotation every 8,000km
Costco will only fit a single pair of tyres to the rear, and move the
rears to the front if it's the front ones you want replaced.
On 12/06/2025 12:30, alan_m wrote:
On 11/06/2025 23:58, SteveW wrote:
On 11/06/2025 18:41, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 11/06/2025 10:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/06/2025 09:54, wasbit wrote:
On 10/06/2025 23:21, SteveW wrote:There is logic in that. In FWD the rear wheels are simply there
On 10/06/2025 19:30, alan_m wrote:
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front >>>>>>>> wheels every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low
tyre tread)
rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best
tryes should
go on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a
car for any length of time is get two new tyres when the
fronts wear out but put these on the back.
It is recommended that new tyres go onto the rear of a vehicle,
regardless of whether it's front or rear wheel drive. The idea
is that
the rear wheels losing grip, on heavy braking, can mean the
rear end passing the front!
My recent tyre change was carried out at a main dealer rather
than a tyre specialist.
When I asked to have the new tyres on the rear & the rear tyres
placed on the front they asked why.
My reply was that it was some thing I read in a motoring
magazine years
ago & confirmed by 2 local tyre shops over the years. The logic
being that they are not going to make themselves extra unpaid
work if it wasn't the correct thing to do.
The main dealer sevice manager said that for a front wheel
drive car you
need the maximum tread on the front for grip & steering.
to stop the car dragging its arse along the ground...
Absolutely correct. With front-wheel drive the car is effectively
pulled along. If the rear tyres lose grip, gentle acceleration is
what is required to straighten it out. It doesn't really matter
how much grip the rears have - if the fronts lose grip you really
*are* in trouble! No traction to pull the car and no traction to
steer... :-(
Michelin's Technical Manager advised to always put the new tyres
on the rear. According to him, if the fronts begin to lose grip,
the car will gently understeer and backing off the throttle will
bring it back under control, while if the rear lose grip, the car
is likely to snap into severe oversteer.
From the Uniroyal web pages
"Do you fit the new tyres at the front or back? Regardless of the
drive type, we recommend not fitting the better tyres at the front,
but always fitting them at the back. The reason is simple: The rear
axle ensures the tracking stability of a vehicle."
The above is the recommendation when only replacing two tyres.
In the same page they also recommend rotating tyres (front to back
and visa-versa) every six months to even out the wear.
From the Michelin web site
"When replacing just two tyres, Michelin recommends that the new or
least worn tyres are fitted to the rear axle to improve vehicle
control and safety. This advice applies to front and rear wheel
drive vehicles fitted with the same tyre sizes front and rear."
Again, this is on a page that suggests tyre rotation every 8,000km
All this predicated on the basis that sliding head on into a truck on
a wet motorway is preferable to spinning on a wet roundabout. If
indeed that is possible with an FWD car -
I've only ever done that once as a 1st year driver when I took my
foot off the accelerator in a tightening corner.
In Minis it was nearly impossible to break the back out without using
the handbrake,.
As I said, rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience
of fools
AFAIAC its utterly dependent what vehicle it is for me. Ive had
oversteer and understeer moments in everything I have driven - once
in the same car within a second of each other as first the front
wheels, then the rear, hit a small patch of ice.
The *only thing you need tread for is for wet roads*. Race cars
drive slicks. in the dry.
And the only time the tread really makes any difference is when the
sipes get overloaded by water and start to aquaplane.
Personally I prefer to keep control of the front. I do not like
having no steering. I can control a rear wheel slide with steering
bit I cant control a car that has no steering.
On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 12:44:54 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 12/06/2025 12:30, alan_m wrote:Something I wasn't able to explain was that one night, when pulling
On 11/06/2025 23:58, SteveW wrote:All this predicated on the basis that sliding head on into a truck on
On 11/06/2025 18:41, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 11/06/2025 10:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/06/2025 09:54, wasbit wrote:
On 10/06/2025 23:21, SteveW wrote:There is logic in that. In FWD the rear wheels are simply there
On 10/06/2025 19:30, alan_m wrote:
On 10/06/2025 15:42, Jeff Layman wrote:
Perhaps in future it would make sense to swap rear and front >>>>>>>>>> wheels every couple of years to even out the tyre wear.
Don't you then have the risk of having 4 dodgy tyres (low
tyre tread)
rather than just two.
On front wheel drive cars it's recommended that the best
tryes should
go on the rear so possibly the best solution if you have a
car for any length of time is get two new tyres when the
fronts wear out but put these on the back.
It is recommended that new tyres go onto the rear of a vehicle, >>>>>>>> regardless of whether it's front or rear wheel drive. The idea >>>>>>>> is that
the rear wheels losing grip, on heavy braking, can mean the
rear end passing the front!
My recent tyre change was carried out at a main dealer rather
than a tyre specialist.
When I asked to have the new tyres on the rear & the rear tyres
placed on the front they asked why.
My reply was that it was some thing I read in a motoring
magazine years
ago & confirmed by 2 local tyre shops over the years. The logic
being that they are not going to make themselves extra unpaid
work if it wasn't the correct thing to do.
The main dealer sevice manager said that for a front wheel
drive car you
need the maximum tread on the front for grip & steering.
to stop the car dragging its arse along the ground...
Absolutely correct. With front-wheel drive the car is effectively
pulled along. If the rear tyres lose grip, gentle acceleration is
what is required to straighten it out. It doesn't really matter
how much grip the rears have - if the fronts lose grip you really
*are* in trouble! No traction to pull the car and no traction to
steer... :-(
Michelin's Technical Manager advised to always put the new tyres
on the rear. According to him, if the fronts begin to lose grip,
the car will gently understeer and backing off the throttle will
bring it back under control, while if the rear lose grip, the car
is likely to snap into severe oversteer.
From the Uniroyal web pages
"Do you fit the new tyres at the front or back? Regardless of the
drive type, we recommend not fitting the better tyres at the front,
but always fitting them at the back. The reason is simple: The rear
axle ensures the tracking stability of a vehicle."
The above is the recommendation when only replacing two tyres.
In the same page they also recommend rotating tyres (front to back
and visa-versa) every six months to even out the wear.
From the Michelin web site
"When replacing just two tyres, Michelin recommends that the new or
least worn tyres are fitted to the rear axle to improve vehicle
control and safety. This advice applies to front and rear wheel
drive vehicles fitted with the same tyre sizes front and rear."
Again, this is on a page that suggests tyre rotation every 8,000km
a wet motorway is preferable to spinning on a wet roundabout. If
indeed that is possible with an FWD car -
I've only ever done that once as a 1st year driver when I took my
foot off the accelerator in a tightening corner.
In Minis it was nearly impossible to break the back out without using
the handbrake,.
As I said, rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience
of fools
AFAIAC its utterly dependent what vehicle it is for me. Ive had
oversteer and understeer moments in everything I have driven - once
in the same car within a second of each other as first the front
wheels, then the rear, hit a small patch of ice.
The *only thing you need tread for is for wet roads*. Race cars
drive slicks. in the dry.
And the only time the tread really makes any difference is when the
sipes get overloaded by water and start to aquaplane.
Personally I prefer to keep control of the front. I do not like
having no steering. I can control a rear wheel slide with steering
bit I cant control a car that has no steering.
onto a roundabout, the car did not straighten afterwards, but continued
to turn. I spun the wheel left, and after a few moments delay, the car
spun to the left, ran up a kerb and stopped a yard short of a lamppost.
There was no problem arriving at the roundabout, but when the car went
up the kerb, the offside rear tyre was flat. I know that because there
was a great notch in the wheel. In those days, cars had spares and
steel wheels, so I was soon able to continue, though with a wobble on braking.
OK, this was an extreme case, but it was the loss of one *rear* wheel's traction that left me with no steering. Rear wheel drive, of course,
just about only Minis had front wheel drive then. I had to replace the bearing and half-shaft also.
I bought a new (breaker's yard) wheel, of course, and didn't dare re-use
the tyre. But the valve was OK, and the most careful inspection of the
inside of the tyre showed no sign of tear or puncture. The wheel looked
OK, apart from the big dent. The tyre had gone flat in seconds, but I
still have no idea why.
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