My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger that
meets the requirements of PD 3. I have ordered a "UGREEN" one that is on
its way (I have other UGREEN stuff that has been OK).

It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that small
but we will see.

As a test of my memory of Ohm's law I think I can use this to charge other items as they will only draw the current they need. Does that sound right?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Have you ever noticed that all the instruments searching for intelligent
life are pointing away from Earth?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 17/06/2025 10:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:

My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger that
meets the requirements of PD 3. I have ordered a "UGREEN" one that is on
its way (I have other UGREEN stuff that has been OK).

It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that
small but we will see.

Advances in semiconductors mean that the iron 50Hz transformers of
yesteryear are now replaced by high frequency switching circuits running
at mains voltages that can use much smaller ferrite transformers.
Broadly speaking the power that can be put through a transformer is the
mass of iron(like) material times the frequency it's driven at.. So
whereas at 50Hz a 60W transformer would be a mug sized lump of iron, at
100kHz it might be a matchbox sized lump of ferrite.

Also the modern switching FETS have such a low on resistance that they
don't get hot so the need for large heatsinks goes away

As a test of my memory of Ohm's law I think I can use this to charge
other items as they will only draw the current they need. Does that
sound right?

Yes and no. Batteries are not especially ohmic, but if they are inside something with a USB charge port some electronics will take care of
everything


--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 17/06/2025 10:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:

My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger that
meets the requirements of PD 3. I have ordered a "UGREEN" one that is on
its way (I have other UGREEN stuff that has been OK).

It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that
small but we will see.

Made substantially easier by the ability of USB devices with power
delivery compatibility to negotiate higher voltages than the original
5V. So at 20V, 60W is a much more manageable 3A

As a test of my memory of Ohm's law I think I can use this to charge
other items as they will only draw the current they need. Does that
sound right?

Yup. If the device has the smarts it will negotiate what it needs (and
if it is not, it will get a basic 5V supply). Anything with modern
batteries will have its own internal charge control electronics.


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 6/17/25 11:45, John Rumm wrote:

On 17/06/2025 10:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:

My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger that
meets the requirements of PD 3. I have ordered a "UGREEN" one that is
on its way (I have other UGREEN stuff that has been OK).

It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that
small but we will see.

Made substantially easier by the ability of USB devices with power
delivery compatibility to negotiate higher voltages than the original
5V. So at 20V, 60W is a much more manageable 3A

Yes, I found that out with the Raspberry Pi 5. It requires a 27W USB
charger, so I assumed any USB charger with a similar wattage would do.
But the Raspberry Pi requires 27W at 5V, rather than the modern USB PD
devices that up the voltage.

Hopefully the next version of Raspberry Pi and similar will use USB PD
with a higher voltage.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Jeff Gaines wrote:

My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger [...]
It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that
small but we will see.

Latest PD is 240 Watts (5A at 48V) over the same type-C cable

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 17/06/2025 10:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:

As a test of my memory of Ohm's law I think I can use this to charge
other items as they will only draw the current they need. Does that
sound right?

Nowt to do with Ohms Law - the charger, and the device to charge, will negotiate between them what charge rate each can use.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 17 Jun 2025 at 11:45:36 BST, John Rumm wrote:

On 17/06/2025 10:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:

My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger that
meets the requirements of PD 3. I have ordered a "UGREEN" one that is on
its way (I have other UGREEN stuff that has been OK).

It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that
small but we will see.

Made substantially easier by the ability of USB devices with power
delivery compatibility to negotiate higher voltages than the original
5V. So at 20V, 60W is a much more manageable 3A

As a test of my memory of Ohm's law I think I can use this to charge
other items as they will only draw the current they need. Does that
sound right?

Yup. If the device has the smarts it will negotiate what it needs (and
if it is not, it will get a basic 5V supply). Anything with modern
batteries will have its own internal charge control electronics.

At what point does the USB C cable become important? I've a variety that've been bundled with various gadgets. Some of them look very lightweight.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:

On 6/17/25 11:45, John Rumm wrote:

On 17/06/2025 10:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:

My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger that
meets the requirements of PD 3. I have ordered a "UGREEN" one that is
on its way (I have other UGREEN stuff that has been OK).

It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that
small but we will see.

Made substantially easier by the ability of USB devices with power
delivery compatibility to negotiate higher voltages than the original
5V. So at 20V, 60W is a much more manageable 3A

Yes, I found that out with the Raspberry Pi 5. It requires a 27W USB
charger, so I assumed any USB charger with a similar wattage would do.
But the Raspberry Pi requires 27W at 5V, rather than the modern USB PD devices that up the voltage.

It only needs that if you're going to hang a lot of things off it. The
actual current for the board itself is more like 2A at 5V, which a standard 10-15W charger will handle (assuming it didn't lie).

Hopefully the next version of Raspberry Pi and similar will use USB PD
with a higher voltage.

That circuit costs money and takes up extra space, so they cut that corner
with the reasoning that most users won't need the extra power.

Theo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 17/06/2025 13:33, Pancho wrote:

On 6/17/25 11:45, John Rumm wrote:

On 17/06/2025 10:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:

My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger that
meets the requirements of PD 3. I have ordered a "UGREEN" one that is
on its way (I have other UGREEN stuff that has been OK).

It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that
small but we will see.

Made substantially easier by the ability of USB devices with power
delivery compatibility to negotiate higher voltages than the original
5V. So at 20V, 60W is a much more manageable 3A

Yes, I found that out with the Raspberry Pi 5. It requires a 27W USB
charger, so I assumed any USB charger with a  similar wattage would do.
But the Raspberry Pi requires 27W at 5V, rather than the modern USB PD devices that up the voltage.

Some of the pi chargers stick out a bit over 5V to help compensate...

Hopefully the next version of Raspberry Pi and similar will use USB PD
with a higher voltage.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 17/06/2025 17:32, Theo wrote:

Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:

On 6/17/25 11:45, John Rumm wrote:

On 17/06/2025 10:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:

My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger that
meets the requirements of PD 3. I have ordered a "UGREEN" one that is
on its way (I have other UGREEN stuff that has been OK).

It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that
small but we will see.

Made substantially easier by the ability of USB devices with power
delivery compatibility to negotiate higher voltages than the original
5V. So at 20V, 60W is a much more manageable 3A

Yes, I found that out with the Raspberry Pi 5. It requires a 27W USB
charger, so I assumed any USB charger with a similar wattage would do.
But the Raspberry Pi requires 27W at 5V, rather than the modern USB PD
devices that up the voltage.

It only needs that if you're going to hang a lot of things off it. The actual current for the board itself is more like 2A at 5V, which a standard 10-15W charger will handle (assuming it didn't lie).

Moment you start using USB there's another 2.5A that may be needed

Hopefully the next version of Raspberry Pi and similar will use USB PD
with a higher voltage.

That circuit costs money and takes up extra space, so they cut that corner with the reasoning that most users won't need the extra power.

5V 5A is IIRC the standard spec

Theo

--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 6/17/25 18:08, John Rumm wrote:

On 17/06/2025 13:33, Pancho wrote:

On 6/17/25 11:45, John Rumm wrote:

On 17/06/2025 10:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:

My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger
that meets the requirements of PD 3. I have ordered a "UGREEN" one
that is on its way (I have other UGREEN stuff that has been OK).

It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that
small but we will see.

Made substantially easier by the ability of USB devices with power
delivery compatibility to negotiate higher voltages than the original
5V. So at 20V, 60W is a much more manageable 3A

Yes, I found that out with the Raspberry Pi 5. It requires a 27W USB
charger, so I assumed any USB charger with a  similar wattage would
do. But the Raspberry Pi requires 27W at 5V, rather than the modern
USB PD devices that up the voltage.

Some of the pi chargers stick out a bit over 5V to help compensate...

Ah yeah, it is 5,1V 5A = 25.5W for the rPi5. Apparently it does PD too, although I've a vague memory it isn't quite standard. (could be wrong).

My Samsung Tablet circa 2010 used the same 5.1V trick.

Bah! I like standardisation.

Hopefully the next version of Raspberry Pi and similar will use USB PD
with a higher voltage.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 6/17/25 17:32, Theo wrote:

Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:

On 6/17/25 11:45, John Rumm wrote:

On 17/06/2025 10:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:

My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger that
meets the requirements of PD 3. I have ordered a "UGREEN" one that is
on its way (I have other UGREEN stuff that has been OK).

It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that
small but we will see.

Made substantially easier by the ability of USB devices with power
delivery compatibility to negotiate higher voltages than the original
5V. So at 20V, 60W is a much more manageable 3A

Yes, I found that out with the Raspberry Pi 5. It requires a 27W USB
charger, so I assumed any USB charger with a similar wattage would do.
But the Raspberry Pi requires 27W at 5V, rather than the modern USB PD
devices that up the voltage.

It only needs that if you're going to hang a lot of things off it. The actual current for the board itself is more like 2A at 5V, which a standard 10-15W charger will handle (assuming it didn't lie).

Being a cheapskate, I bought a rPi5 without the official charger. The
rPi5 was unusable with any of my other USB chargers, ones I used for a
rPi4 and an oPi5. The rPi5 would run for minutes at most and then crash.
I really wondered if I had a duff one, but I bought the official
charger, and it has been fine since.

Perhaps it would have worked with an official rPi4 charger, but I didn't
have one.

Hopefully the next version of Raspberry Pi and similar will use USB PD
with a higher voltage.

That circuit costs money and takes up extra space, so they cut that corner with the reasoning that most users won't need the extra power.

Given my rPi5, without any extras, was unusable, I don't know what that
means. I don't think it even ran headless, without hdmi.

Theo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tue, 6/17/2025 5:48 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:

My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger that meets the requirements of PD 3. I have ordered a "UGREEN" one that is on its way (I have other UGREEN stuff that has been OK).

It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that small but we will see.

As a test of my memory of Ohm's law I think I can use this to charge other items as they will only draw the current they need. Does that sound right?

They want enough voltage to charge a battery.

A 19V 3A laptop adapter would have sufficed.

The USBPD 3.1 20V @ 3A would also work as sufficient voltage.

Sufficient voltage, means the charging section can be dead
simple as a design. If they started from a 5V source, they
would need a boost converter.

It's charging a pack which is a substitute for a battery.
4SnP. Four cells in series, many cells in parallel (which
gives current sourcing capability).

The ampere hours (the time it can sustain a high current) is
likely a short time. But by having a lot of cells in parallel,
that is how it gets the cranking amps.

Big Clive did a video on this I think, took apart a pack
to see how it was constructed or something.

Lithium foils, they "smoke" if you disturb them. That's why we
let Big Clive do these experiments, so we don't have to.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tue, 6/17/2025 8:56 AM, Andy Burns wrote:

Jeff Gaines wrote:

My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger [...]
It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that small but we will see.

Latest PD is 240 Watts (5A at 48V) over the same type-C cable

I'm still waiting for someone to actually use that.

(Summary at bottom)

https://www.chargerlab.com/eight-pd-3-1-48v-fast-charging-protocol-chip-chargerlab-analysis/

"Although the maximum power of the PD protocol on smart devices is only around 140W,
there is still a long way to go before reaching 240W. However, there are already
power tools that can reach power of 240W. This type of chip is not only widely in
demand in industrial equipment, power tools, and other fields but also with the
development of industrial automation"

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 17/06/2025 19:34, Pancho wrote:

The rPi5 would run for minutes at most and then crash.

Pis are very sensitive to power supplies.

I have a Pi Zero W that was unstable till I switched to a better power
supply.

The wifi takes a LOT of current when connecting or re-establsihing
connections

My Pi 4 occasionally dumps on me on a allegedly compatible PSU


--
“But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an hypothesis!”

Mary Wollstonecraft

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:

On 6/17/25 17:32, Theo wrote:

Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:

On 6/17/25 11:45, John Rumm wrote:

On 17/06/2025 10:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:

My new NOCO power pack can take a charge from a 60 W USB charger that >>>> meets the requirements of PD 3. I have ordered a "UGREEN" one that is >>>> on its way (I have other UGREEN stuff that has been OK).

It seems quite a lot of power to put our from something that is that >>>> small but we will see.

Made substantially easier by the ability of USB devices with power
delivery compatibility to negotiate higher voltages than the original
5V. So at 20V, 60W is a much more manageable 3A

Yes, I found that out with the Raspberry Pi 5. It requires a 27W USB
charger, so I assumed any USB charger with a similar wattage would do.
But the Raspberry Pi requires 27W at 5V, rather than the modern USB PD
devices that up the voltage.

It only needs that if you're going to hang a lot of things off it. The actual current for the board itself is more like 2A at 5V, which a standard 10-15W charger will handle (assuming it didn't lie).

Being a cheapskate, I bought a rPi5 without the official charger. The
rPi5 was unusable with any of my other USB chargers, ones I used for a
rPi4 and an oPi5. The rPi5 would run for minutes at most and then crash.
I really wondered if I had a duff one, but I bought the official
charger, and it has been fine since.

Perhaps it would have worked with an official rPi4 charger, but I didn't
have one.

Hopefully the next version of Raspberry Pi and similar will use USB PD
with a higher voltage.

That circuit costs money and takes up extra space, so they cut that corner with the reasoning that most users won't need the extra power.

Given my rPi5, without any extras, was unusable, I don't know what that means. I don't think it even ran headless, without hdmi.

Remember that the cable connecting the charger is important too. I
have found that changing the cable used to connect a 'generic' 5v
supply will change things from unusable to perfectly OK.



--
Chris Green
·

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 17 Jun 2025 at 15:29:33 BST, RJH wrote:

Yup. If the device has the smarts it will negotiate what it needs (and
if it is not, it will get a basic 5V supply). Anything with modern
batteries will have its own internal charge control electronics.

At what point does the USB C cable become important? I've a variety that've been bundled with various gadgets. Some of them look very lightweight.

What a palaver. It seems that the cable has smarts too:

https://www.macworld.com/article/234030/how-to-tell-whether-a-usb-c-cable-can-carry-high-wattage-power-and-thunderbolt-3-data.html

Usually with no way of physically identifying cable capacity.
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

"If all the economists in the world were laid end-to-end, they would still not reach a conclusion." -- unknown

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 18/06/2025 12:30, RJH wrote:

What a palaver. It seems that the cable has smarts too:

https://www.macworld.com/article/234030/how-to-tell-whether-a-usb-c- cable-can-carry-high-wattage-power-and-thunderbolt-3-data.html

Usually with no way of physically identifying cable capacity.

I'm not sure that's smarts, or just not enough copper.

Andy

--
Do not listen to rumour, but, if you do, do not believe it.
Ghandi.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 17/06/2025 13:33, Pancho wrote:

Yes, I found that out with the Raspberry Pi 5. It requires a 27W USB
charger, so I assumed any USB charger with a  similar wattage would do.
But the Raspberry Pi requires 27W at 5V, rather than the modern USB PD devices that up the voltage.

Hopefully the next version of Raspberry Pi and similar will use USB PD
with a higher voltage.

I asked some people I know. They tell me the Pi will run fine on a 15W
charger, unless you are using a lot of USB power for external devices.
That's when you need the 27W device.

Andy

--
Do not listen to rumour, but, if you do, do not believe it.
Ghandi.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)