I'm considering replacing our alarm but really don't want to have to go
up a couple of ladders to the soon-to-be-redundant bell box.
What do I need to do to remove the alarm panel and PIRs without having
the bell box sounding either during the removal process or afterwards
please?
And more: I have discovered that the alarm panel, which is located downstairs, is powered from a room upstairs which has had a large built-Is it going to be used again, if not, you'd have a live cable terminated
in wardrobe installed in front of the fused(?) spur(?). Is there
anything I could do to the cabling behind the panel once the panel is removed? Would terminating it with a Wago connector be acceptable? The
new panel would be installed over it but not connected to it
Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> wrote:
On 18/06/2025 18:15, Frank wrote:
I'm considering replacing our alarm but really don't want to have to go
up a couple of ladders to the soon-to-be-redundant bell box.
What do I need to do to remove the alarm panel and PIRs without having
the bell box sounding either during the removal process or afterwards
please?
Input the Engineer Code. But, once the old unit is removed, the bell box
will sound, thats if the battery in it still holds charge.
They can go for quite some time! I believe the old house-breakers trick was to fill the external sounder with spray foam.
Of course it may not, but best to warn neighbours and don’t disconnect in the evening. ;-)
Tim
On 18/06/2025 18:15, Frank wrote:
I'm considering replacing our alarm but really don't want to have to go
up a couple of ladders to the soon-to-be-redundant bell box.
What do I need to do to remove the alarm panel and PIRs without having
the bell box sounding either during the removal process or afterwards
please?
Input the Engineer Code. But, once the old unit is removed, the bell box
will sound, thats if the battery in it still holds charge.
On 18/06/2025 18:15, Frank wrote:
I'm considering replacing our alarm but really don't want to have to go
up a couple of ladders to the soon-to-be-redundant bell box.
What do I need to do to remove the alarm panel and PIRs without having
the bell box sounding either during the removal process or afterwards
please?
Input the Engineer Code. But, once the old unit is removed, the bell box
will sound, thats if the battery in it still holds charge.
And more: I have discovered that the alarm panel, which is locatedIs it going to be used again, if not, you'd have a live cable terminated behind the new panel, so it would be far better to get it isolated
downstairs, is powered from a room upstairs which has had a large built-
in wardrobe installed in front of the fused(?) spur(?). Is there
anything I could do to the cabling behind the panel once the panel is
removed? Would terminating it with a Wago connector be acceptable? The
new panel would be installed over it but not connected to it
correctly by removing the old cable, or at least disconnecting it at the fused spur end.
Thanks, but I can't get to the spur end: it's behind some seriously
heavy and expensive built-in wardrobes.
I was looking for the safest way to terminate it behind what will be a
new battery powered keypad. The Wago was the only option I could think of...
Frank <news@nowherexxx.net> wrote:
Thanks, but I can't get to the spur end: it's behind some seriously
heavy and expensive built-in wardrobes.
I'd not want a live cable lurking there, even with wagos on the end. Too many surprises for somebody who thinks the panel is safe to work on but is actually live. Or who drills into the wall not expecting the cable to be there.
I was looking for the safest way to terminate it behind what will be a
new battery powered keypad. The Wago was the only option I could think of...
Could you pull it out from behind the panel and put a socket on it? Then at least it's obviously doing something. It also means it's easy to confirm
its live status with a socket tester, and means power is still available there in case somebody wants to use it for something later.
Theo
On 19/06/2025 09:10, Theo wrote:
Frank <news@nowherexxx.net> wrote:
Thanks, but I can't get to the spur end: it's behind some seriously
heavy and expensive built-in wardrobes.
I'd not want a live cable lurking there, even with wagos on the end. Too many surprises for somebody who thinks the panel is safe to work on but is actually live. Or who drills into the wall not expecting the cable to be there.
I was looking for the safest way to terminate it behind what will be a
new battery powered keypad. The Wago was the only option I could think of...
Could you pull it out from behind the panel and put a socket on it? Then at
least it's obviously doing something. It also means it's easy to confirm its live status with a socket tester, and means power is still available there in case somebody wants to use it for something later.
Theo
I shall do just that. It'll need a surface box but at least it'll be
safe. Thank you.
On 19/06/2025 09:10, Theo wrote:
Frank <news@nowherexxx.net> wrote:
Thanks, but I can't get to the spur end: it's behind some seriously
heavy and expensive built-in wardrobes.
I'd not want a live cable lurking there, even with wagos on the end. Too >> many surprises for somebody who thinks the panel is safe to work on
but is
actually live. Or who drills into the wall not expecting the cable to be >> there.
I was looking for the safest way to terminate it behind what will be
a new battery powered keypad. The Wago was the only option I could
think of...
Could you pull it out from behind the panel and put a socket on it?
Then at
least it's obviously doing something. It also means it's easy to confirm >> its live status with a socket tester, and means power is still available
there in case somebody wants to use it for something later.
Theo
I shall do just that. It'll need a surface box but at least it'll be
safe. Thank you.
Frank
That really isn't what I wanted to hear. And it won't be what the
Of course it may not, but best to warn neighbours and don’t disconnect in
the evening. ;-)
Tim
neighbours want to hear either! Sounds like a job for a 12-bore. Perhaps >not...
Should be fine for a
gadget like a USB charger or a wifi repeater, but will blow if somebody
tries to use a hairdryer on it.
On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 21:11:04 +0100, Frank <news@nowherexxx.net> wrote:
That really isn't what I wanted to hear. And it won't be what the
Of course it may not, but best to warn neighbours and don’t disconnect in >>> the evening. ;-)
Tim
neighbours want to hear either! Sounds like a job for a 12-bore. Perhaps
not...
Don't worry about it. Modern alarms aren't that loud. Mine's been
subject to random triggering in the night for a few months and I've
been the only person who was woken by it. or no one complained if I
wasn't. It only ran for 5 or 10 minutes. The installer's been round
this morning.
And a few years ago, when a house not far away was burgled one
evening, the alarm was triggered but no one heard it going. All inside watching TV I guess.
On 19/06/2025 15:24, Peter Johnson wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 21:11:04 +0100, Frank <news@nowherexxx.net> wrote:
That really isn't what I wanted to hear. And it won't be what the
Of course it may not, but best to warn neighbours and don't
disconnect in the evening. ;-)
Tim
neighbours want to hear either! Sounds like a job for a 12-bore.
Perhaps not...
Don't worry about it. Modern alarms aren't that loud. Mine's been
subject to random triggering in the night for a few months and I've
been the only person who was woken by it. or no one complained if I
wasn't. It only ran for 5 or 10 minutes. The installer's been round
this morning. And a few years ago, when a house not far away was
burgled one evening, the alarm was triggered but no one heard it going.
All inside watching TV I guess.
Alarms (car and house) go off so often that no-one takes any notice of
them anymore unless they go off every day and then they just get annoyed.
Do you get lots of very short power losses (less than a second)
If so the cause could be the backup battery in the control box if it's a sealed lead acid type of battery and it's around 5 or more years old. https://www.screwfix.com/p/sealed-lead-acid-battery-12v-1-2ah/63554
Your alarm trickle charges this battery for years and although the
terminal voltage remains at a nominal 12V the battery cannot provide the instantaneous backup when the mains to the control panel fails. This
glitch in the supply voltage triggers the alarm. If the mains remains
off the old battery can still maintain the alarm sounding (plus there si
a battery in a bell box to operate the sounder if the supply fails.
A new battery cures this type of problem. They should be replaced approx every 5 years.
You can quickly test the battery by turning of the mains to your house
at the consumer unit. The alarm should not sound on the mains failure.
--
According to the company who service my alarm (an insurance requirement) external alarm batteries are not replaceable. The whole unit needs to be replaced. Mine must be 15 years old at a minimum.
You can quickly test the battery by turning of the mains to your house
at the consumer unit. The alarm should not sound on the mains failure.
On 19/06/2025 20:30, charles wrote:
According to the company who service my alarm (an insurance requirement)
external alarm batteries are not replaceable. The whole unit needs to be
replaced. Mine must be 15 years old at a minimum.
You can quickly test the battery by turning of the mains to your house
at the consumer unit. The alarm should not sound on the mains failure.
Depending on the type of alarm there can be two batteries. I have a
wired alarm with a bell-box connected by wire to the control box.
There is a rechargeable battery in the bell-box. The aim of that battery
is to sound the bell-box alarm if it's power supply is disconnected. On
the bell-boxes I've had it's been a ni-cad battery with tabs that has
been soldered to the printed circuit board. It can be replaced but
possibly for the purposes of maintenance considered a non-replaceable
part because its not in a battery holder. The bell-box may independently sound the alarm because the tamper switch may be in series with the
power supply line. Remove the bell box from a wall and the tamper switch becomes open circuit removing power from the bell-box.
In my alarm the power to the bell-box is supplied by the control panel
box usually from 12V derived from the mains. In the event of a mains
power loss the power is supplied from a backup 12V rechargeable battery.
It's this battery that can cause false triggering on a 220V power loss
if it is 5 or more years old. The mains loss could be the type where it
is less than a second long.
How much do you save on your house/contents insurance by declaring an
alarm?
When I've checked in the past it's been less than £10 with the
stipulation that it must have yearly maintenance by an approved third
party contractor (and not DIY) and/or it must be an externally monitored system thus at a cost a lot more than you are saving on the premium.
On 19/06/2025 22:22, alan_m wrote:
On 19/06/2025 20:30, charles wrote:
According to the company who service my alarm (an insurance
requirement) external alarm batteries are not replaceable. The whole
unit needs to be replaced. Mine must be 15 years old at a minimum.
You can quickly test the battery by turning of the mains to your
house at the consumer unit. The alarm should not sound on the mains
failure.
Depending on the type of alarm there can be two batteries. I have a
wired alarm with a bell-box connected by wire to the control box.
There is a rechargeable battery in the bell-box. The aim of that
battery is to sound the bell-box alarm if it's power supply is disconnected. On the bell-boxes I've had it's been a ni-cad battery
with tabs that has been soldered to the printed circuit board. It can
be replaced but possibly for the purposes of maintenance considered a non-replaceable part because its not in a battery holder. The bell-box
may independently sound the alarm because the tamper switch may be in series with the power supply line. Remove the bell box from a wall and
the tamper switch becomes open circuit removing power from the
bell-box.
In my alarm the power to the bell-box is supplied by the control panel
box usually from 12V derived from the mains. In the event of a mains
power loss the power is supplied from a backup 12V rechargeable
battery. It's this battery that can cause false triggering on a 220V
power loss if it is 5 or more years old. The mains loss could be the
type where it is less than a second long.
How much do you save on your house/contents insurance by declaring an alarm? When I've checked in the past it's been less than £10 with the stipulation that it must have yearly maintenance by an approved third
party contractor (and not DIY) and/or it must be an externally
monitored system thus at a cost a lot more than you are saving on the premium.
And they can refuse a payout or reduce it, if you are burgled and the
alarm was not armed.
I've always made it a point to not tell my insurer that I have an alarm.
On 19/06/2025 20:30, charles wrote:
How much do you save on your house/contents insurance by declaring an alarm? When I've checked in the past it's been less than £10 with the
stipulation that it must have yearly maintenance by an approved third
party contractor (and not DIY) and/or it must be an externally monitored system thus at a cost a lot more than you are saving on the premium.
And they can refuse a payout or reduce it, if you are burgled and the
alarm was not armed.
I've always made it a point to not tell my insurer that I have an alarm.
SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
And they can refuse a payout or reduce it, if you are burgled and the
alarm was not armed.
I've always made it a point to not tell my insurer that I have an alarm.
It's always worth getting quotes with and without the alarm, and
comparing the difference to the annual maintenance charges. I'd guess
the maintenance cost is going to far outweigh any saving on the insurance.
Although if you have a million quid's worth of antiques then I suppose
the calculus may be different...
Theo
In article <Lsg*30ufA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
And they can refuse a payout or reduce it, if you are burgled and the alarm was not armed.
I've always made it a point to not tell my insurer that I have an
alarm.
It's always worth getting quotes with and without the alarm, and
comparing the difference to the annual maintenance charges. I'd guess
the maintenance cost is going to far outweigh any saving on the
insurance.
Although if you have a million quid's worth of antiques then I suppose
the calculus may be different...
I don't think you need that amout. We simply had a pearl necklace that belonged to my mother. Alarm mandatory.
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/06/2025 20:30, charles wrote:
How much do you save on your house/contents insurance by declaring an alarm? >> When I've checked in the past it's been less than £10 with the
stipulation that it must have yearly maintenance by an approved third
party contractor (and not DIY) and/or it must be an externally monitored
system thus at a cost a lot more than you are saving on the premium.
When I decommissioned our alarm on the grounds of cost of maintenance, I
duly informed the insurance company, who recalculated the premium. It went down by 2p.
Perhaps living in a street where the most popular occupation is police officer, two of which are dog handlers, might have had something to do with it.
On 20/06/2025 10:49, Spike wrote:
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/06/2025 20:30, charles wrote:
How much do you save on your house/contents insurance by declaring an alarm?
When I've checked in the past it's been less than £10 with the
stipulation that it must have yearly maintenance by an approved third
party contractor (and not DIY) and/or it must be an externally monitored >>> system thus at a cost a lot more than you are saving on the premium.
When I decommissioned our alarm on the grounds of cost of maintenance, I
duly informed the insurance company, who recalculated the premium. It went >> down by 2p.
Perhaps living in a street where the most popular occupation is police
officer, two of which are dog handlers, might have had something to do with >> it.
Popular with who? Probably not the lads in stripey jumpers with a sack labelled "Swag".
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:Our alarm is for our benefit, not the insurance company's.
On 19/06/2025 20:30, charles wrote:
How much do you save on your house/contents insurance by declaring an alarm? >> When I've checked in the past it's been less than £10 with the
stipulation that it must have yearly maintenance by an approved third
party contractor (and not DIY) and/or it must be an externally monitored
system thus at a cost a lot more than you are saving on the premium.
When I decommissioned our alarm on the grounds of cost of maintenance, I
duly informed the insurance company, who recalculated the premium. It went down by 2p.
On 20/06/2025 10:49, Spike wrote:
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:Our alarm is for our benefit, not the insurance company's.
On 19/06/2025 20:30, charles wrote:
How much do you save on your house/contents insurance by declaring an
alarm?
When I've checked in the past it's been less than £10 with the
stipulation that it must have yearly maintenance by an approved third
party contractor (and not DIY) and/or it must be an externally
monitored system thus at a cost a lot more than you are saving on the
premium.
When I decommissioned our alarm on the grounds of cost of maintenance, I
duly informed the insurance company, who recalculated the premium. It
went
down by 2p.
As you both have observed, tell them you've got one and life becomes complicated, and more than likely expensive, with having to follow their requirements to maintain cover. Annually maintained, set every time you
leave the house as an absolute minimum.
We've never told them we have one and the neighbours around here (well,
most of them!) look after each other.
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