A master class by Jaguar cars and learning nothing from the Bud Light campaign
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ0lEO2uaKY
(Note: it's a biased video in favour of ICE vehicles but highlights
the reason why Jaguar sales have fallen by 98%)
A master class by Jaguar cars and learning nothing from the Bud Light campaignI though they halted all vehicle production?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ0lEO2uaKY
(Note: it's a biased video in favour of ICE vehicles but highlights the reason why Jaguar sales have fallen by 98%)
A master class by Jaguar cars and learning nothing from the Bud Light campaign
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ0lEO2uaKY
(Note: it's a biased video in favour of ICE vehicles but highlights the reason why Jaguar sales have fallen by 98%)
Jaguar sales:
FY 2018/19: 180198
FY 2019/20: 140193
FY 2020/21: 97669
FY 2021/22: 77381
FY 2022/23: 62521
FY 2023/24: 66866
FY 2024/25: 48445
So no matter what old guys on the internet may say, they weren't buying the cars. When your sales have already fallen off a cliff and you're (maybe) making a loss on every sale, better to turn off the factory and retool for something new. It remains to be seen whether the new something is
profitable, but it doesn't matter if people who would never buy the cars don't like it. Nothing to do with 'woke'.
On 02/07/2025 20:25, Theo wrote:
Jaguar sales:
FY 2018/19: 180198
FY 2019/20: 140193
FY 2020/21: 97669
FY 2021/22: 77381
FY 2022/23: 62521
FY 2023/24: 66866
FY 2024/25: 48445
So no matter what old guys on the internet may say, they weren't buying the cars. When your sales have already fallen off a cliff and you're (maybe) making a loss on every sale, better to turn off the factory and retool for something new. It remains to be seen whether the new something is profitable, but it doesn't matter if people who would never buy the cars don't like it. Nothing to do with 'woke'.
If you look carefully, that was the time when Jaguars image of a manufacturer of fast luxury saloons and coupes was being bent by the introduction of fairly poor hybrids and battery models and things that
looked like a hatchback on steroids.
That was pure essence of 'woke'.
The latest offerings are an insult to Jaguars heritage. And its loyal customer base.
They urinated on their existing customers and failed to attract any new
ones.
Because they thought their market gave a fuck about 'eco' issues. Or
that that would sell indifferent cars
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 02/07/2025 20:25, Theo wrote:
Jaguar sales:
FY 2018/19: 180198
FY 2019/20: 140193
FY 2020/21: 97669
FY 2021/22: 77381
FY 2022/23: 62521
FY 2023/24: 66866
FY 2024/25: 48445
So no matter what old guys on the internet may say, they weren't buying the >>> cars. When your sales have already fallen off a cliff and you're (maybe) >>> making a loss on every sale, better to turn off the factory and retool for >>> something new. It remains to be seen whether the new something is
profitable, but it doesn't matter if people who would never buy the cars >>> don't like it. Nothing to do with 'woke'.
If you look carefully, that was the time when Jaguars image of a
manufacturer of fast luxury saloons and coupes was being bent by the
introduction of fairly poor hybrids and battery models and things that
looked like a hatchback on steroids.
That was pure essence of 'woke'.
They may be a crap product, but can you explain how hatchbacks on steroids are woke? Hybrids and EVs are being pushed by regulators - they have no choice but to comply otherwise they get big fines. Every other manufacturer is doing the same. The market isn't buying saloons because they want SUVs and crossovers but Jaguar can't move into that territory without stepping on Range Rover's toes. RR sales are doing fine.
Or is 'woke' a synonym for 'things I don't like'?You assert that, but it simply isn't true
The latest offerings are an insult to Jaguars heritage. And its loyal
customer base.
They urinated on their existing customers and failed to attract any new
ones.
Their existing customers are now old and not buying new cars any more. The lack of new ones is the problem. It isn't a given that doing the same formula all over again is going work - they'd need to attract younger customers away from BMW etc. Seems they've decided they just can't compete in that segment.
It seems like they instead want to attract wealthier foreign customers from Lamborghini, Bentley etc, which is... an approach. No idea whether it'll work, but I'm not in the target market for either so I don't matter.
Because they thought their market gave a fuck about 'eco' issues. Or
that that would sell indifferent cars
'Woke' is neither here nor there, it's matching cars to the market that's
the problem. The market is completely different from 10 years ago - BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche have changed. Jaguar needs to, and fast.
Theo
I think the numbers above speak for themselves. Nobody is buying saloons,
so there's no point trying to make them in volume. If even BMW can't sell them in quantity compared with SUVs then Jaguar certainly can't.
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
I think the numbers above speak for themselves. Nobody is buying saloons, >> so there's no point trying to make them in volume. If even BMW can't sell >> them in quantity compared with SUVs then Jaguar certainly can't.
When it comes to EVs, I’m not sure if the predominance of SUVs is down to buyer preference for a big car or manufacturers trying to meet the needs of
a people who think that they need a 250 mile range minimum.
Getting that kind of range with current battery tech means a big, heavy battery and it’s easier to fit it into an SUV style car than a more ordinary sized saloon.
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250 mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes but “range anxiety” still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging network improves (and charging speed)and folk start to realise that range isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars.
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250 >mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes but “range anxiety” >still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging >network improves (and charging speed)and folk start to realise that range >isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars.
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250 mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes
but “range anxiety”
still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging network improves (and charging speed) and folk start to realise that range isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars.
Tim
On 03/07/2025 in message <899997949.773270564.451833.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net> Tim+ wrote:
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250 >> mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes but “range anxiety” >> still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging
network improves (and charging speed)and folk start to realise that range
isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars.
Nobody has “range anxiety” with ICE cars because you can refuel
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's
people's views will change.
My Zoe is Fiesta-sized (4 metres, B segment) with 240-mile quoted range
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 03/07/2025 in message
<899997949.773270564.451833.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net> >> Tim+ wrote:
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250 >>> mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes but “range anxiety” >>> still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging >>> network improves (and charging speed)and folk start to realise that range >>> isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars. >>Nobody has “range anxiety” with ICE cars because you can refuel
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's
people's views will change.
The only snag with that is…
…charge at home = really cheap
…charge at a network charger…up to 90p/kWh
It’s like paying £13:50 per litre of petrol.
nib wrote:
My Zoe is Fiesta-sized (4 metres, B segment) with 240-mile quoted range
Weren't we told that when the WLTP came in (for hydrocarbon and EV cars)
that consumption and range figures would be realistic? Seems they're basically still lies, and you need to knock 1/3 off ...
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 03/07/2025 in message
<899997949.773270564.451833.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net> >> Tim+ wrote:
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250 >>> mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes but “range anxiety” >>> still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging >>> network improves (and charging speed)and folk start to realise that range >>> isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars. >>Nobody has “range anxiety” with ICE cars because you can refuel
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's
people's views will change.
The only snag with that is…
…charge at home = really cheap
…charge at a network charger…up to 90p/kWh
It’s like paying £13:50 per litre of petrol.
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 03/07/2025 in message
<899997949.773270564.451833.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net> >> Tim+ wrote:
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250 >>> mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes but “range anxiety” >>> still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging >>> network improves (and charging speed)and folk start to realise that range >>> isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars. >>Nobody has “range anxiety” with ICE cars because you can refuel
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's
people's views will change.
The only snag with that is…
…charge at home = really cheap
…charge at a network charger…up to 90p/kWh
It’s like paying £13:50 per litre.
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 03/07/2025 in message
<899997949.773270564.451833.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>
Tim+ wrote:
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250 >>>> mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes but “range anxiety”Nobody has “range anxiety” with ICE cars because you can refuel
still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging >>>> network improves (and charging speed)and folk start to realise that range >>>> isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars. >>>
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's
people's views will change.
The only snag with that is…
…charge at home = really cheap
…charge at a network charger…up to 90p/kWh
Indeed, “up to…”. A Firstbus depot in Glasgow is now open to the public
@39p/kWh.
It’s like paying £13:50 per litre.
No it’s not.
Tim
On 4 Jul 2025 at 09:10:25 BST, Spike wrote:
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 03/07/2025 in message
<899997949.773270564.451833.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>
Tim+ wrote:
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250 >>>> mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes but “range anxiety”Nobody has “range anxiety” with ICE cars because you can refuel
still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging >>>> network improves (and charging speed)and folk start to realise that range >>>> isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars. >>>
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's
people's views will change.
The only snag with that is…
…charge at home = really cheap
…charge at a network charger…up to 90p/kWh
It’s like paying £13:50 per litre of petrol.
Gallon?
Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 03/07/2025 in message
<899997949.773270564.451833.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>
Tim+ wrote:
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250
mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes but “range anxiety”
still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging >>>>> network improves (and charging speed)and folk start to realise that range >>>>> isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars.
Nobody has “range anxiety” with ICE cars because you can refuel
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's
people's views will change.
The only snag with that is…
…charge at home = really cheap
…charge at a network charger…up to 90p/kWh
Indeed, “up to…”. A Firstbus depot in Glasgow is now open to the public
@39p/kWh.
It’s like paying £13:50 per litre.
No it’s not.
Tim
The nearest charger to me is 88p/kWh. The next nearest is 86p/kWh. One a
few miles away was 7p/kWh but has disappeared off the network.
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 03/07/2025 in message
<899997949.773270564.451833.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>
Tim+ wrote:
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250
mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes but “range anxiety”
still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging
network improves (and charging speed)and folk start to realise that range
isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars.
Nobody has “range anxiety” with ICE cars because you can refuel
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's >>>>> people's views will change.
The only snag with that is…
…charge at home = really cheap
…charge at a network charger…up to 90p/kWh
Indeed, “up to…”. A Firstbus depot in Glasgow is now open to the public
@39p/kWh.
It’s like paying £13:50 per litre.
No it’s not.
Tim
The nearest charger to me is 88p/kWh. The next nearest is 86p/kWh. One a
few miles away was 7p/kWh but has disappeared off the network.
I would certainly agree that it’s a big issue for anyone who can’t charge at home at present. If the government really want to encourage uptake they have to find a way of providing lower cost public charging. I wouldn’t own an EV without access to home charging.
The 52kWh Renault 5 is >250 miles claimed, and quite a few over 200 - Peugeot 205/Astra for example. Wouldn't fancy putting that to the test on a winter's motorway run, mind.
I'm one of those people who used to achieve the booked MPG from ICE cars
as well! My wife and I could drive the same car on the same journey in
the same time and I would get approx 60 mi/gal against her 50. She just dumped the extra fuel straight into the brakes.
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
I think the numbers above speak for themselves. Nobody is buying saloons, >> so there's no point trying to make them in volume. If even BMW can't sell >> them in quantity compared with SUVs then Jaguar certainly can't.
When it comes to EVs, I’m not sure if the predominance of SUVs is down to buyer preference for a big car or manufacturers trying to meet the needs of
a people who think that they need a 250 mile range minimum.
Getting that kind of range with current battery tech means a big, heavy battery and it’s easier to fit it into an SUV style car than a more ordinary sized saloon.
UK Power Networks (or other regional body) will install a home charging
point for you. Next door are having it done at the moment.
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 4 Jul 2025 at 09:10:25 BST, Spike wrote:
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 03/07/2025 in message
<899997949.773270564.451833.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>
Tim+ wrote:
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250
mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes but “range anxiety”
still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging >>>>> network improves (and charging speed)and folk start to realise that range >>>>> isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars.
Nobody has “range anxiety” with ICE cars because you can refuel
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's
people's views will change.
The only snag with that is…
…charge at home = really cheap
…charge at a network charger…up to 90p/kWh
It’s like paying £13:50 per litre of petrol.
Gallon?
Charge car at home, say 15p/kWh, get 5miles/kWh =3p/mile.
Petrol car = 9mile/£1:35litre, = 15p/mile
Public charger up to 90p/kWh = 18p/mile
Not as bad as I first thought, but does show the real cost of public charging, say 6x that of home charging. Those on EV tariffs will have a
much greater gain.
On 2025-07-04 09:13, Andy Burns wrote:
nib wrote:
My Zoe is Fiesta-sized (4 metres, B segment) with 240-mile quoted range
Weren't we told that when the WLTP came in (for hydrocarbon and EV
cars) that consumption and range figures would be realistic? Seems
they're basically still lies, and you need to knock 1/3 off ...
They are not lies! They are measured under a standard set of conditions,
so you can fairly compare cars.
It depends so much on the driver and the type of journey. My car's rated
at 239 miles IIRC and I can achieve roughly that in normal, gentle, thoughtful driving on open A roads. Like I can start at 100%, drive from
MK to Bricket Wood on the A5 and a bit of the M1, and home again, a
total of 72 miles and end up with 71% battery remaining, estimated
another 158 miles.
By thoughtful I mean things like anticipating braking to maximise regeneration, not over-accelerating only to have to brake shortly after, smooth constant speed (so lane 1 type driving not lane 3).
I'm one of those people who used to achieve the booked MPG from ICE cars
as well! My wife and I could drive the same car on the same journey in
the same time and I would get approx 60 mi/gal against her 50. She just dumped the extra fuel straight into the brakes.
So not lies, just showing what the car can achieve.
On 03/07/2025 in messageyahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>
<899997949.773270564.451833.timdownieuk-
Tim+ wrote:
[quoted text muted]
Nobody has “range anxiety” with ICE cars because you can refuel anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's people's
views will change.
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 4 Jul 2025 at 09:10:25 BST, Spike wrote:
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 03/07/2025 in message
<899997949.773270564.451833.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>
Tim+ wrote:
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250
mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes but “range anxiety”
still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging >>>>> network improves (and charging speed)and folk start to realise that range >>>>> isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars.
Nobody has “range anxiety” with ICE cars because you can refuel
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's
people's views will change.
The only snag with that is…
…charge at home = really cheap
…charge at a network charger…up to 90p/kWh
It’s like paying £13:50 per litre of petrol.
Gallon?
Charge car at home, say 15p/kWh, get 5miles/kWh =3p/mile.
Petrol car = 9mile/£1:35litre, = 15p/mile
Public charger up to 90p/kWh = 18p/mile
Not as bad as I first thought, but does show the real cost of public charging, say 6x that of home charging. Those on EV tariffs will have a
much greater gain.
On 04/07/2025 10:46, JNugent wrote:
UK Power Networks (or other regional body) will install a home
charging point for you. Next door are having it done at the moment.
OK if you have your own off road parking
Where I live there are areas (square miles) where it's all on street
parking both sides of narrow roads in front of properties where there is
no space for an off street parking bay. More than half the housing
stock in the UK was built before mass car ownership was considered to be possible.
Just watch a 1950s Britsh B movie shown of Talking Picture TV channel to
see how few cars were parked in a typical urban street.
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
[quoted text muted]I would certainly agree that it’s a big issue for anyone who can’t
charge at home at present. If the government really want to encourage
uptake they have to find a way of providing lower cost public charging.
I wouldn’t own an EV without access to home charging.
On 04/07/2025 09:42, nib wrote:
On 2025-07-04 09:13, Andy Burns wrote:
nib wrote:
My Zoe is Fiesta-sized (4 metres, B segment) with 240-mile quoted range >>>Weren't we told that when the WLTP came in (for hydrocarbon and EV
cars) that consumption and range figures would be realistic? Seems
they're basically still lies, and you need to knock 1/3 off ...
They are not lies! They are measured under a standard set of
conditions, so you can fairly compare cars.
It depends so much on the driver and the type of journey. My car's
rated at 239 miles IIRC and I can achieve roughly that in normal,
gentle, thoughtful driving on open A roads. Like I can start at 100%,
drive from MK to Bricket Wood on the A5 and a bit of the M1, and home
again, a total of 72 miles and end up with 71% battery remaining,
estimated another 158 miles.
By thoughtful I mean things like anticipating braking to maximise
regeneration, not over-accelerating only to have to brake shortly
after, smooth constant speed (so lane 1 type driving not lane 3).
I'm one of those people who used to achieve the booked MPG from ICE
cars as well! My wife and I could drive the same car on the same
journey in the same time and I would get approx 60 mi/gal against her
50. She just dumped the extra fuel straight into the brakes.
So not lies, just showing what the car can achieve.
Didn't the ICE car manufactures once achieve their mileage figures by
closely controlling the speed of the car, removing excess weight such as
the spare wheel, having driver only and taping up all the cracks in the
body panels to make the exterior more aerodynamic. Hardly real world
driving.
I would argue that your driving style in not the average. Yes it proves
that stated ranges are possible with an ideal driving style, ideal road conditions, and an ideal ambient temperature. However to you get the
same consistent results in different weather and traffic conditions, for
the same route?
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 4 Jul 2025 at 09:10:25 BST, Spike wrote:
Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 03/07/2025 in message
<899997949.773270564.451833.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>
Tim+ wrote:
I’m sure that if a Ford Focus or Fiesta sized EV was produced with a 250
mile range was produced it would sell like hotcakes but “range anxiety”
still has a strong influence over buyers decision making. As the charging >>>>> network improves (and charging speed)and folk start to realise that range >>>>> isn’t such a big issue then maybe we’ll start to see more saloon cars.
Nobody has “range anxiety” with ICE cars because you can refuel
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's
people's views will change.
The only snag with that is…
…charge at home = really cheap
…charge at a network charger…up to 90p/kWh
It’s like paying £13:50 per litre of petrol.
Gallon?
Charge car at home, say 15p/kWh, get 5miles/kWh =3p/mile.
Petrol car = 9mile/£1:35litre, = 15p/mile
Public charger up to 90p/kWh = 18p/mile
Not as bad as I first thought, but does show the real cost of public charging, say 6x that of home charging. Those on EV tariffs will have a
much greater gain.
On 2025-07-04 11:42, alan_m wrote:
On 04/07/2025 10:46, JNugent wrote:
UK Power Networks (or other regional body) will install a home
charging point for you. Next door are having it done at the moment.
OK if you have your own off road parking
Where I live there are areas (square miles) where it's all on street
parking both sides of narrow roads in front of properties where there
is no space for an off street parking bay. More than half the housing
stock in the UK was built before mass car ownership was considered to
be possible.
Just watch a 1950s Britsh B movie shown of Talking Picture TV channel
to see how few cars were parked in a typical urban street.
I see the council in the area adjacent to me (Central Beds) have an
offer on a system for charging on the road: "Kerbo Charge", an approved channel across the footpath. They are offering a discount for early
adopters but it's still eye-wateringly expensive!
nib
On 2025-07-04 11:42, alan_m wrote:
On 04/07/2025 10:46, JNugent wrote:
UK Power Networks (or other regional body) will install a home
charging point for you. Next door are having it done at the moment.
OK if you have your own off road parking
Where I live there are areas (square miles) where it's all on street
parking both sides of narrow roads in front of properties where there
is no space for an off street parking bay. More than half the
housing stock in the UK was built before mass car ownership was
considered to be possible.
Just watch a 1950s Britsh B movie shown of Talking Picture TV channel
to see how few cars were parked in a typical urban street.
I see the council in the area adjacent to me (Central Beds) have an
offer on a system for charging on the road: "Kerbo Charge", an
approved channel across the footpath. They are offering a discount for
early adopters but it's still eye-wateringly expensive!
On Fri, 04 Jul 2025 09:40:39 +0000, Tim+ wrote:
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
[quoted text muted]I would certainly agree that it’s a big issue for anyone who can’t
charge at home at present. If the government really want to encourage
uptake they have to find a way of providing lower cost public charging.
I wouldn’t own an EV without access to home charging.
That won't happen.
When the intersection of autonomous cars meets sky high energy prices
meets EVS, then you'll end up with EVs toddling off to charge when you
are sleeping.
And some genius will say "hey, while it's doing that, it can carry fares".
Especially if you have groups of chums all chipping in to buy an EV with
the sole intention of doing that.
It's quite amazing how much automobiles cost compared to how long they
are used for in a day ...
I would argue that your driving style in not the average. Yes it proves
that stated ranges are possible with an ideal driving style, ideal road conditions, and an ideal ambient temperature. However to you get the
same consistent results in different weather and traffic conditions, for
the same route?
On 04/07/2025 11:28, alan_m wrote:
I would argue that your driving style in not the average. Yes it
proves that stated ranges are possible with an ideal driving style,
ideal road conditions, and an ideal ambient temperature. However to
you get the same consistent results in different weather and traffic
conditions, for the same route?
My XF is supposed to do 42mpg at 100Kmh
In reality on a long run, I can see 40mpg anyway. So long as I dont
stop or touch the brakes
In reality I am happy to get 35mpg and its usually nearer 32mpg.
In town, 28 mpg is optimistic. In a traffic jam, make that 5mpg
You need to understand what burns fuel and avoid it.
On 04/07/2025 04:08, RJH wrote:
maybe a problem if the delay is when the battery is getting low.
The 52kWh Renault 5 is >250 miles claimed, and quite a few over 200 - Peugeot
205/Astra for example. Wouldn't fancy putting that to the test on a winter's >> motorway run, mind.
Range simulator for megane-electric https://www.renault.co.uk/electric-vehicles/megane-electric/range-charge-simulator.html
Gives some idea of range under certain conditions
The default setting is 100% charge which may be appropriate for a long journey (the charge can be changed).
At an ambient temperature of 20C, eco mode = on, 100% charge
Town driving = 290 miles
Motorway driving = 200 miles
At an ambient temperature of 5C, eco mode = on, 100% charge, heater on
Town driving = 170 miles
Motorway driving = 175 miles (yes more miles than town driving)
They claim 30 minutes on a motorway charger will give 160 miles (rapid charger 130kW DC, 350A) but with a 11kW charger 4 hours for 160 miles.
They do mention the simulated figures would change based on how the vehicle is loaded*, weather conditions and driving style.
There is no mention of how low the battery charge has become at those ranges.
My concern with range and battery usage is that I regularly do 250 mile journeys and more than once I have been stuck on motorways for 2+ hours more than my normal journey times. Not a problem in a ICE car with a full tank giving me 400+ miles but
Playing around it seems the heater in winter takes a fair bit of the battery in town driving, 280 miles with the heater off, 170 miles with the heater on. Much less difference for motorway driving as I assume that that the range is being covered in amuch shorter time at 70mph and therefor the heater is only on for a couple of hours. I wouldn't want to to be stuck on a motorway crawling along at 10mph with the heater on for a couple of hours :(
*On holiday recently the driver mentioned how sluggish the car felt with 3 adults, a dog, a boot full of luggage, and a streamlined roof box :)
On 04/07/2025 12:16, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2025 09:40:39 +0000, Tim+ wrote:
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
[quoted text muted]I would certainly agree that it’s a big issue for anyone who can’t
charge at home at present. If the government really want to encourage
uptake they have to find a way of providing lower cost public
charging.
I wouldn’t own an EV without access to home charging.
That won't happen.
When the intersection of autonomous cars meets sky high energy prices
meets EVS, then you'll end up with EVs toddling off to charge when you
are sleeping.
And some genius will say "hey, while it's doing that, it can carry
fares".
Especially if you have groups of chums all chipping in to buy an EV
with the sole intention of doing that.
It's quite amazing how much automobiles cost compared to how long they
are used for in a day ...
I wonder how an autonomous taxi knows the someone has thrown up in the
back of the vehicle?
nib <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote in news:mcprcbFbnj9U1@mid.individual.net:
On 2025-07-04 11:42, alan_m wrote:
On 04/07/2025 10:46, JNugent wrote:
UK Power Networks (or other regional body) will install a home
charging point for you. Next door are having it done at the moment.
OK if you have your own off road parking
Where I live there are areas (square miles) where it's all on street
parking both sides of narrow roads in front of properties where there
is no space for an off street parking bay. More than half the
housing stock in the UK was built before mass car ownership was
considered to be possible.
Just watch a 1950s Britsh B movie shown of Talking Picture TV channel
to see how few cars were parked in a typical urban street.
I see the council in the area adjacent to me (Central Beds) have an
offer on a system for charging on the road: "Kerbo Charge", an
approved channel across the footpath. They are offering a discount for
early adopters but it's still eye-wateringly expensive!
Providing a reserved parking space for the subscriber? That should make for
a fun enforcement situation.
You would put a roof box on a Cybertruck.
Nobody has range anxiety with ICE cars because you can refuel
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's
people's views will change.
Jeff Gaines wrote:
Nobody has “range anxiety” with ICE cars because you can refuel
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's
people's views will change.
Indeed. On a recent journey we had some difficulty in finding a
working town centre charge point at our destination, despite
downloading even more Apps than we already had. We eventually
called at a motorway services, which had its own problems.
I contacted them later:
"Arriving last Saturday teatime, in heavy rain, we were initially
delighted to see an impressive array of EV chargers, most of them
available.
Our initial task was to spot a CHAdeMO charger. We were not able,
from inside the car, to identify this. We therefore had to pull
into a space. It became clear that, only by prodding each of the
enormous touchscreens, was the type of socket identified. Having
worked our way along the line, we finally found the single
CHAdeMO on site.
However, the screen showed "Unavailable". We tried various
combinations of unplugging, waving cards and muttering
incantations, to no avail. Thinking it might be a software glitch
that could be remotely reset, more in hope than expectation, we
rang the helpline.
They were able to tell us that the equipment was working as
designed, because only one output at a time is available on that
pillar, and the CCS was in use. Helpfully, they were able to tell
us that the car using the CCS output was nearly fully charged,
and after a short wait we were able to connect.
I accept that CHAdeMO is now not the favoured connector, but I
believe that things could be arranged better.
It ought to be possible to identify the type of connector(s) on
each pillar from within a vehicle, before pulling into a space. I
guess the operator prefers to use their enormous screen to
achieve their chosen look. Indication of the connector type could
easily be shown here instead. Alternatively, separate signage
could be affixed.
The fact that, only on this particular pillar, the two outputs
are not available simultaneously, should be made plain.
"Unavailable" has a number of potential interpretations. Sadly,
the number of charge points nationwide having technical problems
is significant. We were on the verge of heading to another
location.
A CCS user entering the charging area arrives first at the shared
pillar. There is no indication to them that, by using it, instead
of any of the many other pillars, they are inadvertently blocking
use of the only CHAdeMO connector.
I have no idea if the single output limitation would also apply
if both were CHAdeMO, but even if so, this might be an
improvement, as it would stop CCS users blocking CHAdeMO.
I salute your efforts to support the growing community of EV
users, and, I feel sure you would want to address this problem
area."
They replied sympathetically, and promised to pass the comments
on to their contractor. Things need to get a lot better.
Chris
I accept that CHAdeMO is now not the favoured connector
On Fri, 04 Jul 2025 09:40:39 +0000, Tim+ wrote:
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
[quoted text muted]I would certainly agree that it’s a big issue for anyone who can’t
charge at home at present. If the government really want to encourage
uptake they have to find a way of providing lower cost public charging.
I wouldn’t own an EV without access to home charging.
That won't happen.
When the intersection of autonomous cars meets sky high energy prices
meets EVS, then you'll end up with EVs toddling off to charge when you
are sleeping.
And some genius will say "hey, while it's doing that, it can carry fares".
Especially if you have groups of chums all chipping in to buy an EV with
the sole intention of doing that.
It's quite amazing how much automobiles cost compared to how long they
are used for in a day ...
On 04/07/2025 12:16 PM, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2025 09:40:39 +0000, Tim+ wrote:
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
[quoted text muted]I would certainly agree that it’s a big issue for anyone who can’t
charge at home at present. If the government really want to encourage
uptake they have to find a way of providing lower cost public
charging.
I wouldn’t own an EV without access to home charging.
That won't happen.
When the intersection of autonomous cars meets sky high energy prices
meets EVS, then you'll end up with EVs toddling off to charge when you
are sleeping.
And some genius will say "hey, while it's doing that, it can carry
fares".
Especially if you have groups of chums all chipping in to buy an EV
with the sole intention of doing that.
It's quite amazing how much automobiles cost compared to how long they
are used for in a day ...
And it's all good fun until the car comes home with the interior all contaminated with puke.
On 2025-07-04 11:42, alan_m wrote:
On 04/07/2025 10:46, JNugent wrote:
UK Power Networks (or other regional body) will install a home
charging point for you. Next door are having it done at the moment.
OK if you have your own off road parking
Where I live there are areas (square miles) where it's all on street
parking both sides of narrow roads in front of properties where there
is no space for an off street parking bay. More than half the housing
stock in the UK was built before mass car ownership was considered to
be possible.
Just watch a 1950s Britsh B movie shown of Talking Picture TV channel
to see how few cars were parked in a typical urban street.
I see the council in the area adjacent to me (Central Beds) have an
offer on a system for charging on the road: "Kerbo Charge", an approved channel across the footpath. They are offering a discount for early
adopters but it's still eye-wateringly expensive!
On 2025-07-04 13:33, fred wrote:
nib <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote in
news:mcprcbFbnj9U1@mid.individual.net:
On 2025-07-04 11:42, alan_m wrote:
On 04/07/2025 10:46, JNugent wrote:
UK Power Networks (or other regional body) will install a home
charging point for you. Next door are having it done at the moment.
OK if you have your own off road parking
Where I live there are areas (square miles) where it's all on street
parking both sides of narrow roads in front of properties where there
is no space for an off street parking bay. More than half the
housing stock in the UK was built before mass car ownership was
considered to be possible.
Just watch a 1950s Britsh B movie shown of Talking Picture TV channel
to see how few cars were parked in a typical urban street.
I see the council in the area adjacent to me (Central Beds) have an
offer on a system for charging on the road: "Kerbo Charge", an
approved channel across the footpath. They are offering a discount for
early adopters but it's still eye-wateringly expensive!
Providing a reserved parking space for the subscriber? That should
make for
a fun enforcement situation.
Yes, like most of the ideas being tried for those without off-road
parking, it assumes that neighbours get on to some extent.
It's very rare that someone not visiting me parks outside my house, but
I also have off-road parking. And the strip of highway between my
property and the road is actually laid to lawn which I look after so I
could drape across it if necessary.
The row of 7kW chargers near me works by being free-for-all parking
during the day for a school, a health centre and a pharmacy, but
overnight and at weekends it's used by locals charging.
Jeff Gaines wrote:
Nobody has range anxiety with ICE cars because you can refuel
anywhere within a matter of minutes. Once that becomes true for EV's
people's views will change.
Indeed. On a recent journey we had some difficulty in finding a
working town centre charge point at our destination, despite
downloading even more Apps than we already had. We eventually
called at a motorway services, which had its own problems.
I contacted them later:
"Arriving last Saturday teatime, in heavy rain, we were initially
delighted to see an impressive array of EV chargers, most of them
available.
Our initial task was to spot a CHAdeMO charger. We were not able,
from inside the car, to identify this. We therefore had to pull
into a space. It became clear that, only by prodding each of the
enormous touchscreens, was the type of socket identified. Having
worked our way along the line, we finally found the single
CHAdeMO on site.
However, the screen showed "Unavailable". We tried various
combinations of unplugging, waving cards and muttering
incantations, to no avail. Thinking it might be a software glitch
that could be remotely reset, more in hope than expectation, we
rang the helpline.
They were able to tell us that the equipment was working as
designed, because only one output at a time is available on that
pillar, and the CCS was in use. Helpfully, they were able to tell
us that the car using the CCS output was nearly fully charged,
and after a short wait we were able to connect.
I accept that CHAdeMO is now not the favoured connector, but I
believe that things could be arranged better.
It ought to be possible to identify the type of connector(s) on
each pillar from within a vehicle, before pulling into a space. I
guess the operator prefers to use their enormous screen to
achieve their chosen look. Indication of the connector type could
easily be shown here instead. Alternatively, separate signage
could be affixed.
The fact that, only on this particular pillar, the two outputs
are not available simultaneously, should be made plain.
"Unavailable" has a number of potential interpretations. Sadly,
the number of charge points nationwide having technical problems
is significant. We were on the verge of heading to another
location.
A CCS user entering the charging area arrives first at the shared
pillar. There is no indication to them that, by using it, instead
of any of the many other pillars, they are inadvertently blocking
use of the only CHAdeMO connector.
I have no idea if the single output limitation would also apply
if both were CHAdeMO, but even if so, this might be an
improvement, as it would stop CCS users blocking CHAdeMO.
I salute your efforts to support the growing community of EV
users, and, I feel sure you would want to address this problem
area."
They replied sympathetically, and promised to pass the comments
on to their contractor. Things need to get a lot better.
Chris
Raises the question , would it be permissible for those on such a tariff
who don’t need to charge their own vehicle frequently and have suitable access to allow others to use their charger at a cost to be agreed , higher than what they pay the supplier but cheaper than an actual public charger. Probably would break all sorts of T+C but who would know. Could be a
little earner in some circumstances
A little think like that isn't going to stop someone making megabucks
from the idea.
Just think, if a development like that meant that peoples commute is less
of a factor on where they have to live, then there is a huge pool of run
down areas that can be gentrified and exploited. Trebles all round !
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Raises the question , would it be permissible for those on such a tariff
who don’t need to charge their own vehicle frequently and have suitable
access to allow others to use their charger at a cost to be agreed , higher >> than what they pay the supplier but cheaper than an actual public charger. >> Probably would break all sorts of T+C but who would know. Could be a
little earner in some circumstances
That's fairly straightforward. You may need to swap your charger box for a slightly fancier one that's enrolled in a payment network, but that's more
or less it - when you sign up with the network they know where it is and makes its status appear on charging maps etc. You can set the rate you want to charge.
The more awkward thing is it occupies a parking space, which means potentially you have nowhere to park when you get home. But if space isn't
a problem and you don't mind strangers hanging around then why not?
Theo
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Raises the question , would it be permissible for those on such a tariff >>> who don’t need to charge their own vehicle frequently and have suitable >>> access to allow others to use their charger at a cost to be agreed , higher >>> than what they pay the supplier but cheaper than an actual public charger. >>> Probably would break all sorts of T+C but who would know. Could be a
little earner in some circumstances
That's fairly straightforward. You may need to swap your charger box for a >> slightly fancier one that's enrolled in a payment network, but that's more >> or less it - when you sign up with the network they know where it is and
makes its status appear on charging maps etc. You can set the rate you want >> to charge.
The more awkward thing is it occupies a parking space, which means
potentially you have nowhere to park when you get home. But if space isn't >> a problem and you don't mind strangers hanging around then why not?
Theo
Thanks, I was thinking of something a little less formal , eg someone has enough room to park their car to one side and lets trusted neighbours they know who don’t have an off road area and they pay by cash or bank transfer rather than an app.
My neighbours have been running two EV’s for some years now , they have got used to shuffling them around to reach the charger.*It would not be too different if the second car was actually someone else’s.
*
When they got their first it was quite funny, he is a bit of a
scatterbrain and always in a rush.
Took him a few months to remember to plug it in on arriving home, there
were several mornings he did not have enough power to do the round trip to the office and back located in a town that then had no public charger. Fortunately he owns the business so only has to answer to himself.
GH
Thanks, I was thinking of something a little less formal , eg someone has enough room to park their car to one side and lets trusted neighbours they know who don’t have an off road area and they pay by cash or bank transfer rather than an app.
My neighbours have been running two EV’s for some years now , they have got used to shuffling them around to reach the charger.*It would not be too different if the second car was actually someone else’s.
On 04/07/2025 10:00 PM, Marland wrote:
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Raises the question , would it be permissible for those on such a tariff >>>> who don’t need to charge their own vehicle frequently and have suitable >>>> access to allow others to use their charger at a cost to be agreed , higher
than what they pay the supplier but cheaper than an actual public charger. >>>> Probably would break all sorts of T+C but who would know. Could be a
little earner in some circumstances
That's fairly straightforward. You may need to swap your charger box for a >>> slightly fancier one that's enrolled in a payment network, but that's more >>> or less it - when you sign up with the network they know where it is and >>> makes its status appear on charging maps etc. You can set the rate you want
to charge.
The more awkward thing is it occupies a parking space, which means
potentially you have nowhere to park when you get home. But if space isn't >>> a problem and you don't mind strangers hanging around then why not?
Theo
Thanks, I was thinking of something a little less formal , eg someone has
enough room to park their car to one side and lets trusted neighbours they >> know who don’t have an off road area and they pay by cash or bank
transfer rather than an app.
My neighbours have been running two EV’s for some years now , they have got
used to shuffling them around to reach the charger.*It would not be too
different if the second car was actually someone else’s.
Wait until the call comes at 03:00.
On 04/07/2025 14:37, Paul wrote:custom cars etc.
You would put a roof box on a Cybertruck.
It may be BS but I saw something the other day indicating the Cybertruck may no longer be legal on USA roads, or at least not legal on the roads in some states.
From memory some loophole allowed the design to be exempt from some regulatory requirements including perhaps pedestrian safety in the event of an accident etc. The loopholes only apply to a limited number of prototype cars, usually aimed at one off
The reason that the regulations now apply is because the Cybertruck isn't the prototype and it isn't a limited production.
The Cybertruck would be illegal for road use in the UK and EU because it fails to meet many safety standards
On Fri, 04 Jul 2025 09:40:39 +0000, Tim+ wrote:
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
[quoted text muted]I would certainly agree that it’s a big issue for anyone who can’t
charge at home at present. If the government really want to encourage
uptake they have to find a way of providing lower cost public charging.
I wouldn’t own an EV without access to home charging.
That won't happen.
When the intersection of autonomous cars meets sky high energy prices
meets EVS, then you'll end up with EVs toddling off to charge when you
are sleeping.
And some genius will say "hey, while it's doing that, it can carry
fares".
Especially if you have groups of chums all chipping in to buy an EV with
the sole intention of doing that.
It's quite amazing how much automobiles cost compared to how long they
are used for in a day ...
A master class by Jaguar cars and learning nothing from the Bud Light campaign
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ0lEO2uaKY
(Note: it's a biased video in favour of ICE vehicles but highlights the reason why Jaguar sales have fallen by 98%)
It's quite amazing how much automobiles cost compared to how long they
are used for in a day ...
nib wrote:
My Zoe is Fiesta-sized (4 metres, B segment) with 240-mile quoted range
Weren't we told that when the WLTP came in (for hydrocarbon and EV cars)
that consumption and range figures would be realistic? Seems they're basically still lies, and you need to knock 1/3 off ...
On 04/07/2025 12:16, Jethro_uk wrote:
It's quite amazing how much automobiles cost compared to how long they
are used for in a day ...
There are exceptions. Back in the 1970s I bought a 12-year old ex-taxi
- a 3-litre Rover. It had a quarter of a million miles on the clock
because it was used continuously in 8-hour shifts by three drivers,
mostly on long journeys like carrying holiday makers between ports like
Dover or Portsmouth to or from London. I used it for commuting between >London and various places in Wiltshire and by the time I sold it on
because I had stopped doing long journeys, it had a third of a million
miles on the clock.
On 04/07/2025 09:13, Andy Burns wrote:
nib wrote:Most mileage figures are based on constant speed in ideal conditions,
My Zoe is Fiesta-sized (4 metres, B segment) with 240-mile quoted range
Weren't we told that when the WLTP came in (for hydrocarbon and EV
cars) that consumption and range figures would be realistic? Seems
they're basically still lies, and you need to knock 1/3 off ...
and real driving isn't like that. The Which? magazine did an article on
it earlier this year.
Many years ago, I had a Hillman Imp and I had a 240 mile each way
journey, mostly along motorways. It was a sunny morning when I started out. At the end of the day it was pouring with rain when I started
back. Just sweeping water away from the tyres at motorway speeds on the return journey used a gallon and a half more petrol than I had used on
the dry roads earlier in the day.
On 12/07/2025 01:01, Indy Jess John wrote:
On 04/07/2025 09:13, Andy Burns wrote:
nib wrote:Most mileage figures are based on constant speed in ideal conditions,
My Zoe is Fiesta-sized (4 metres, B segment) with 240-mile quoted range >>Weren't we told that when the WLTP came in (for hydrocarbon and EV
cars) that consumption and range figures would be realistic? Seems
they're basically still lies, and you need to knock 1/3 off ...
and real driving isn't like that. The Which? magazine did an article on
it earlier this year.
Many years ago, I had a Hillman Imp and I had a 240 mile each way
journey, mostly along motorways. It was a sunny morning when I started out. At the end of the day it was pouring with rain when I started
back. Just sweeping water away from the tyres at motorway speeds on the return journey used a gallon and a half more petrol than I had used on
the dry roads earlier in the day.
One leg may have been downhill and the other up hill :)
I regularly do journeys of that mileage (to/from the same location) in
an ICE vehicle and see around a 10% variation in fuel consumption
depending on weather and traffic conditions. These days I tend to use
cruise control for most of my journey which is on motorways. The dreaded mobile speed camera did register 85mph on the motorway so I'm a tiny bit
more cautious these days.
It is my understanding that with an EV the range changes much more with ambient temperature and the range figures are possibly quoted for at
nominal 20C temperature. There is also the small print - range can
change with loading and driving style.
On 04/07/2025 09:13, Andy Burns wrote:
nib wrote:Most mileage figures are based on constant speed in ideal conditions,
My Zoe is Fiesta-sized (4 metres, B segment) with 240-mile quoted range
Weren't we told that when the WLTP came in (for hydrocarbon and EV
cars) that consumption and range figures would be realistic? Seems
they're basically still lies, and you need to knock 1/3 off ...
and real driving isn't like that. The Which? magazine did an article on
it earlier this year.
Many years ago, I had a Hillman Imp and I had a 240 mile each way
journey, mostly along motorways. It was a sunny morning when I started out. At the end of the day it was pouring with rain when I started
back. Just sweeping water away from the tyres at motorway speeds on the return journey used a gallon and a half more petrol than I had used on
the dry roads earlier in the day.
On 12/07/2025 01:01, Indy Jess John wrote:
On 04/07/2025 09:13, Andy Burns wrote:
nib wrote:Most mileage figures are based on constant speed in ideal
My Zoe is Fiesta-sized (4 metres, B segment) with 240-mile quoted
range
Weren't we told that when the WLTP came in (for hydrocarbon and EV
cars) that consumption and range figures would be realistic?
Seems they're basically still lies, and you need to knock 1/3 off
...
conditions, and real driving isn't like that. The Which? magazine
did an article on it earlier this year.
Many years ago, I had a Hillman Imp and I had a 240 mile each way
journey, mostly along motorways. It was a sunny morning when I
started out. At the end of the day it was pouring with rain when I started back. Just sweeping water away from the tyres at motorway
speeds on the return journey used a gallon and a half more petrol
than I had used on the dry roads earlier in the day.
Many years ago I had a triumph spitfire 1300. I used to get around
38-42mpg out of it.
One new years day the road was covered in a couple of inches of snow. Anything over 45mph was almost impossible as was any major use of
engine power. Also no other cars were on the road, so I made my 90
mile journey in three hours anyway.
I got 55 mpg out of that trip..
On 12/07/2025 01:01, Indy Jess John wrote:journeyA
On 04/07/2025 09:13, Andy Burns wrote:
nib wrote:Most mileage figures are based on constant speed in ideal conditions,
My Zoe is Fiesta-sized (4 metres, B segment) with 240-mile quoted
range
Weren't we told that when the WLTP came in (for hydrocarbon and EV
cars) that consumption and range figures would be realistic? Seems
they're basically still lies, and you need to knock 1/3 off ...
and real driving isn't like that. The Which? magazine did an article on
it earlier this year.
Many years ago, I had a Hillman Imp and I had a 240 mile each way
journey, mostly along motorways. It was a sunny morning when I started
out. At the end of the day it was pouring with rain when I started
back. Just sweeping water away from the tyres at motorway speeds on
the return journey used a gallon and a half more petrol than I had used
on the dry roads earlier in the day.
Many years ago I had a triumph spitfire 1300. I used to get around
38-42mpg out of it.As
One new years day the road was covered in a couple of inches of snow. Anything over 45mph was almost impossible as was any major use of engine power. Also no other cars were on the road, so I made my 90 mile
in three hours anyway.
I got 55 mpg out of that trip..
On Sat, 12 Jul 2025 10:50:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/07/2025 01:01, Indy Jess John wrote:journeyA
On 04/07/2025 09:13, Andy Burns wrote:
nib wrote:Most mileage figures are based on constant speed in ideal conditions,
My Zoe is Fiesta-sized (4 metres, B segment) with 240-mile quoted
range
Weren't we told that when the WLTP came in (for hydrocarbon and EV
cars) that consumption and range figures would be realistic? Seems
they're basically still lies, and you need to knock 1/3 off ...
and real driving isn't like that. The Which? magazine did an article on
it earlier this year.
Many years ago, I had a Hillman Imp and I had a 240 mile each way
journey, mostly along motorways. It was a sunny morning when I started >>> out. At the end of the day it was pouring with rain when I started
back. Just sweeping water away from the tyres at motorway speeds on
the return journey used a gallon and a half more petrol than I had used
on the dry roads earlier in the day.
Many years ago I had a triumph spitfire 1300. I used to get around
38-42mpg out of it.As
One new years day the road was covered in a couple of inches of snow.
Anything over 45mph was almost impossible as was any major use of engine
power. Also no other cars were on the road, so I made my 90 mile
in three hours anyway.
I got 55 mpg out of that trip..
I used to visit a friend in Wiltshire in the 90s. M4 from Heathrow to
Bath. Left with a full tank (about 6 gallon) . Used to do it at c. 90 and
it would cost £10 to fiAsll up when I got there.
One Easter for no reason, the motorway was rammed and it wasn't possible
to go over 55 all the way.
When I filled up, it was £7
The maths is trivial. Unlike the message ...
(Again, if the UK was really concerned about eco matters, it would be
trivial to enforce a 55mph speed limit, and see the money wasted on fuel
go elsewhere ....)
(Again, if the UK was really concerned about eco matters, it would be
trivial to enforce a 55mph speed limit, and see the money wasted on fuel
go elsewhere ....)
On 2025-07-12 12:15, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2025 10:50:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/07/2025 01:01, Indy Jess John wrote:journeyA
On 04/07/2025 09:13, Andy Burns wrote:
nib wrote:Most mileage figures are based on constant speed in ideal conditions,
My Zoe is Fiesta-sized (4 metres, B segment) with 240-mile quoted
range
Weren't we told that when the WLTP came in (for hydrocarbon and EV
cars) that consumption and range figures would be realistic? Seems >>>>> they're basically still lies, and you need to knock 1/3 off ...
and real driving isn't like that. The Which? magazine did an article on >>>> it earlier this year.
Many years ago, I had a Hillman Imp and I had a 240 mile each way
journey, mostly along motorways. It was a sunny morning when I started >>>> out. At the end of the day it was pouring with rain when I started
back. Just sweeping water away from the tyres at motorway speeds on
the return journey used a gallon and a half more petrol than I had used >>>> on the dry roads earlier in the day.
Many years ago I had a triumph spitfire 1300. I used to get around
38-42mpg out of it.As
One new years day the road was covered in a couple of inches of snow.
Anything over 45mph was almost impossible as was any major use of engine >>> power. Also no other cars were on the road, so I made my 90 mile
in three hours anyway.
I got 55 mpg out of that trip..
I used to visit a friend in Wiltshire in the 90s. M4 from Heathrow to
Bath. Left with a full tank (about 6 gallon) . Used to do it at c. 90 and
it would cost £10 to fiAsll up when I got there.
One Easter for no reason, the motorway was rammed and it wasn't possible
to go over 55 all the way.
When I filled up, it was £7
The maths is trivial. Unlike the message ...
(Again, if the UK was really concerned about eco matters, it would be
trivial to enforce a 55mph speed limit, and see the money wasted on fuel
go elsewhere ....)
And also to watch people who complain about the price of fuel driving so
as to maximise their use of it!
nib
The miles I do fuel cost is no longer a major issue.
Beer is more expensive than diesel these days
On Sat, 12 Jul 2025 13:20:43 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
The miles I do fuel cost is no longer a major issue.
Beer is more expensive than diesel these days
Always was, despite the fact that it's over 90% water. Possibly if we
all drank beer by the gallon, it would be a little cheaper.
Last time I looked, the inflation of beer price was higher than almost anything else except houses.
On Fri, 04 Jul 2025 09:40:39 +0000, Tim+ wrote:
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
[quoted text muted]I would certainly agree that it’s a big issue for anyone who can’t
charge at home at present. If the government really want to encourage
uptake they have to find a way of providing lower cost public charging.
I wouldn’t own an EV without access to home charging.
That won't happen.
When the intersection of autonomous cars meets sky high energy prices
meets EVS, then you'll end up with EVs toddling off to charge when you
are sleeping.
And some genius will say "hey, while it's doing that, it can carry
fares".
Especially if you have groups of chums all chipping in to buy an EV with
the sole intention of doing that.
It's quite amazing how much automobiles cost compared to how long they
are used for in a day ...
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