Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I have a 'Smart' meter on my water supply. I have a softener for the
house supply that regenerates based on the amount of water used. The
only unsoftened outlets are the kitchen drinking water cold tap, and
the outdoor tap, both of which come from the same pipe.
Recently, in the last month, the softener's salt consumption has
gone up, considerably. I looked at the water meter readings, and
they agree. But I cannot think of any change in my water use.
The obvious thought is that there is a leak, but where? I can find absolutely no sign of any. The outside tap does not leak, and is
shut off indoors anyway. None of the taps are dripping. None of the overflows are showing any discharge. The drains for the washing
machine and the dishwasher need power to run water to the drain.
There is a cellar in the middle of the house, where I would expect
any water that leaked out to gravitate to, but it is dry. The box
where the outside pipe enters the house is dry, so no leaks there,
and the underground space outside which houses the meter is
similarly dry. There is no sound of running water in the softener
box, which is right above the entry box.
The recorded meter readings give little help, they are sporadic and interrupted enough that trying to correlate high water use with a
known event in the house is very difficult indeed. But on a day
when I did a clothes wash, and therefore used maybe 80-100 litres
more than a 'normal' day, the readings show that I had minimal use!
The water company online query system says that it could take up to
10 days to respond to questions.
As much as the reported readings are of little help, they do confirm
that the theoretical leak is of softened water, and all but 1 run of
that is in the house, so would be discovered. Only one run, to the
kitchen, is underground, in concrete. I hope that there is no leak
there, it would be messy to fix that. And how do I check?
I am trying to think of experiments using selective shut-offs to
try to isolate any leak, but the random meter readings reported by
the water company do not help detailed analysis. Luckily, as we are
in summer, I can leave the supply turned off without worrying about anything running dry and burning out.
Any helpful ideas would be welcome.
Doesn’t the water meter have a conventional display as well as its
data link?
I have a 'Smart' meter on my water supply. I have a softener for the
house supply that regenerates based on the amount of water used. The
only unsoftened outlets are the kitchen drinking water cold tap, and
the outdoor tap, both of which come from the same pipe.
Recently, in the last month, the softener's salt consumption has
gone up, considerably. I looked at the water meter readings, and they
agree. But I cannot think of any change in my water use.
The obvious thought is that there is a leak, but where? I can find
absolutely no sign of any. The outside tap does not leak, and is shut
off indoors anyway. None of the taps are dripping. None of the
overflows are showing any discharge. The drains for the washing machine
and the dishwasher need power to run water to the drain. There is a
cellar in the middle of the house, where I would expect any water that
leaked out to gravitate to, but it is dry. The box where the outside
pipe enters the house is dry, so no leaks there, and the underground
space outside which houses the meter is similarly dry. There is no sound
of running water in the softener box, which is right above the entry
box.
The recorded meter readings give little help, they are sporadic and interrupted enough that trying to correlate high water use with a known
event in the house is very difficult indeed. But on a day when I did a clothes wash, and therefore used maybe 80-100 litres more than a
'normal' day, the readings show that I had minimal use! The water
company online query system says that it could take up to 10 days to
respond to questions.
As much as the reported readings are of little help, they do confirm
that the theoretical leak is of softened water, and all but 1 run of
that is in the house, so would be discovered. Only one run, to the
kitchen, is underground, in concrete. I hope that there is no leak
there, it would be messy to fix that. And how do I check?
I am trying to think of experiments using selective shut-offs to try to isolate any leak, but the random meter readings reported by the water
company do not help detailed analysis. Luckily, as we are in summer, I
can leave the supply turned off without worrying about anything running
dry and burning out.
Any helpful ideas would be welcome.
I have a 'Smart' meter on my water supply. I have a softener for the
house supply that regenerates based on the amount of water used. The
only unsoftened outlets are the kitchen drinking water cold tap, and
the outdoor tap, both of which come from the same pipe.
Recently, in the last month, the softener's salt consumption has
gone up, considerably. I looked at the water meter readings, and they
agree. But I cannot think of any change in my water use.
The obvious thought is that there is a leak, but where? I can find
absolutely no sign of any. The outside tap does not leak, and is shut
off indoors anyway. None of the taps are dripping. None of the
overflows are showing any discharge. The drains for the washing machine
and the dishwasher need power to run water to the drain. There is a
cellar in the middle of the house, where I would expect any water that
leaked out to gravitate to, but it is dry. The box where the outside
pipe enters the house is dry, so no leaks there, and the underground
space outside which houses the meter is similarly dry. There is no sound
of running water in the softener box, which is right above the entry
box.
The recorded meter readings give little help, they are sporadic and interrupted enough that trying to correlate high water use with a known
event in the house is very difficult indeed. But on a day when I did a clothes wash, and therefore used maybe 80-100 litres more than a
'normal' day, the readings show that I had minimal use! The water
company online query system says that it could take up to 10 days to
respond to questions.
As much as the reported readings are of little help, they do confirm
that the theoretical leak is of softened water, and all but 1 run of
that is in the house, so would be discovered. Only one run, to the
kitchen, is underground, in concrete. I hope that there is no leak
there, it would be messy to fix that. And how do I check?
I am trying to think of experiments using selective shut-offs to try to isolate any leak, but the random meter readings reported by the water
company do not help detailed analysis. Luckily, as we are in summer, I
can leave the supply turned off without worrying about anything running
dry and burning out.
Any helpful ideas would be welcome.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I have a 'Smart' meter on my water supply. I have a softener for the
house supply that regenerates based on the amount of water used. The
only unsoftened outlets are the kitchen drinking water cold tap, and
the outdoor tap, both of which come from the same pipe.
Recently, in the last month, the softener's salt consumption has
gone up, considerably. I looked at the water meter readings, and
they agree. But I cannot think of any change in my water use.
The obvious thought is that there is a leak, but where? I can find absolutely no sign of any. The outside tap does not leak, and is
shut off indoors anyway. None of the taps are dripping. None of the overflows are showing any discharge. The drains for the washing
machine and the dishwasher need power to run water to the drain.
There is a cellar in the middle of the house, where I would expect
any water that leaked out to gravitate to, but it is dry. The box
where the outside pipe enters the house is dry, so no leaks there,
and the underground space outside which houses the meter is
similarly dry. There is no sound of running water in the softener
box, which is right above the entry box.
The recorded meter readings give little help, they are sporadic and interrupted enough that trying to correlate high water use with a
known event in the house is very difficult indeed. But on a day
when I did a clothes wash, and therefore used maybe 80-100 litres
more than a 'normal' day, the readings show that I had minimal use!
The water company online query system says that it could take up to
10 days to respond to questions.
As much as the reported readings are of little help, they do confirm
that the theoretical leak is of softened water, and all but 1 run of
that is in the house, so would be discovered. Only one run, to the
kitchen, is underground, in concrete. I hope that there is no leak
there, it would be messy to fix that. And how do I check?
I am trying to think of experiments using selective shut-offs to
try to isolate any leak, but the random meter readings reported by
the water company do not help detailed analysis. Luckily, as we are
in summer, I can leave the supply turned off without worrying about anything running dry and burning out.
Any helpful ideas would be welcome.
Have a *very* close look in your toilet pan/s and see if the flush
valve is leaking down the back of the pan. It can be almost
invisible without laying a sheet of toilet paper on it.
Tim
On 08/07/2025 12:24, Davey wrote:
I have a 'Smart' meter on my water supply. I have a softener for the
house supply that regenerates based on the amount of water used. The
only unsoftened outlets are the kitchen drinking water cold tap, and
the outdoor tap, both of which come from the same pipe.
Recently, in the last month, the softener's salt consumption has
gone up, considerably. I looked at the water meter readings, and
they agree. But I cannot think of any change in my water use.
The obvious thought is that there is a leak, but where? I can find absolutely no sign of any. The outside tap does not leak, and is
shut off indoors anyway. None of the taps are dripping. None of the overflows are showing any discharge. The drains for the washing
machine and the dishwasher need power to run water to the drain.
There is a cellar in the middle of the house, where I would expect
any water that leaked out to gravitate to, but it is dry. The box
where the outside pipe enters the house is dry, so no leaks there,
and the underground space outside which houses the meter is
similarly dry. There is no sound of running water in the softener
box, which is right above the entry box.
The recorded meter readings give little help, they are sporadic and interrupted enough that trying to correlate high water use with a
known event in the house is very difficult indeed. But on a day
when I did a clothes wash, and therefore used maybe 80-100 litres
more than a 'normal' day, the readings show that I had minimal use!
The water company online query system says that it could take up to
10 days to respond to questions.
As much as the reported readings are of little help, they do confirm
that the theoretical leak is of softened water, and all but 1 run of
that is in the house, so would be discovered. Only one run, to the
kitchen, is underground, in concrete. I hope that there is no leak
there, it would be messy to fix that. And how do I check?
I am trying to think of experiments using selective shut-offs to
try to isolate any leak, but the random meter readings reported by
the water company do not help detailed analysis. Luckily, as we are
in summer, I can leave the supply turned off without worrying about anything running dry and burning out.
Any helpful ideas would be welcome.
A listening stick is useful in such circumstances. Still used by
water coys when fancy electroic gizmos are available. A large wooden
drawer knob fitted to a long metal rod.
Ear to the wood and far end on any pipe. With experience you can
zero-in on a leak as the noise goes from rumble at a distance to
hissy when nearby.
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 12:47:11 +0100
N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/07/2025 12:24, Davey wrote:
I have a 'Smart' meter on my water supply. I have a softener for the
house supply that regenerates based on the amount of water used. The
only unsoftened outlets are the kitchen drinking water cold tap, and
the outdoor tap, both of which come from the same pipe.
Recently, in the last month, the softener's salt consumption has
gone up, considerably. I looked at the water meter readings, and
they agree. But I cannot think of any change in my water use.
The obvious thought is that there is a leak, but where? I can find
absolutely no sign of any. The outside tap does not leak, and is
shut off indoors anyway. None of the taps are dripping. None of the
overflows are showing any discharge. The drains for the washing
machine and the dishwasher need power to run water to the drain.
There is a cellar in the middle of the house, where I would expect
any water that leaked out to gravitate to, but it is dry. The box
where the outside pipe enters the house is dry, so no leaks there,
and the underground space outside which houses the meter is
similarly dry. There is no sound of running water in the softener
box, which is right above the entry box.
The recorded meter readings give little help, they are sporadic and
interrupted enough that trying to correlate high water use with a
known event in the house is very difficult indeed. But on a day
when I did a clothes wash, and therefore used maybe 80-100 litres
more than a 'normal' day, the readings show that I had minimal use!
The water company online query system says that it could take up to
10 days to respond to questions.
As much as the reported readings are of little help, they do confirm
that the theoretical leak is of softened water, and all but 1 run of
that is in the house, so would be discovered. Only one run, to the
kitchen, is underground, in concrete. I hope that there is no leak
there, it would be messy to fix that. And how do I check?
I am trying to think of experiments using selective shut-offs to
try to isolate any leak, but the random meter readings reported by
the water company do not help detailed analysis. Luckily, as we are
in summer, I can leave the supply turned off without worrying about
anything running dry and burning out.
Any helpful ideas would be welcome.
A listening stick is useful in such circumstances. Still used by
water coys when fancy electroic gizmos are available. A large wooden
drawer knob fitted to a long metal rod.
Ear to the wood and far end on any pipe. With experience you can
zero-in on a leak as the noise goes from rumble at a distance to
hissy when nearby.
Thanks. I can only try it, and the science is good.
On 8 Jul 2025 11:46:53 GMT
Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I have a 'Smart' meter on my water supply. I have a softener for the
house supply that regenerates based on the amount of water used. The
only unsoftened outlets are the kitchen drinking water cold tap, and
the outdoor tap, both of which come from the same pipe.
Recently, in the last month, the softener's salt consumption has
gone up, considerably. I looked at the water meter readings, and
they agree. But I cannot think of any change in my water use.
The obvious thought is that there is a leak, but where? I can find
absolutely no sign of any. The outside tap does not leak, and is
shut off indoors anyway. None of the taps are dripping. None of the
overflows are showing any discharge. The drains for the washing
machine and the dishwasher need power to run water to the drain.
There is a cellar in the middle of the house, where I would expect
any water that leaked out to gravitate to, but it is dry. The box
where the outside pipe enters the house is dry, so no leaks there,
and the underground space outside which houses the meter is
similarly dry. There is no sound of running water in the softener
box, which is right above the entry box.
The recorded meter readings give little help, they are sporadic and
interrupted enough that trying to correlate high water use with a
known event in the house is very difficult indeed. But on a day
when I did a clothes wash, and therefore used maybe 80-100 litres
more than a 'normal' day, the readings show that I had minimal use!
The water company online query system says that it could take up to
10 days to respond to questions.
As much as the reported readings are of little help, they do confirm
that the theoretical leak is of softened water, and all but 1 run of
that is in the house, so would be discovered. Only one run, to the
kitchen, is underground, in concrete. I hope that there is no leak
there, it would be messy to fix that. And how do I check?
I am trying to think of experiments using selective shut-offs to
try to isolate any leak, but the random meter readings reported by
the water company do not help detailed analysis. Luckily, as we are
in summer, I can leave the supply turned off without worrying about
anything running dry and burning out.
Any helpful ideas would be welcome.
Have a *very* close look in your toilet pan/s and see if the flush
valve is leaking down the back of the pan. It can be almost
invisible without laying a sheet of toilet paper on it.
Tim
I thought that the syphonic flush system eliminated that? We had that
fault several times in the US, but they always had a single rubber flap
under full cistern pressure, that seemed to be designed to leak if at
all possible.
And if it is that small a leak, it wouldn't add up to the volume that I
seem to be losing somewhere.
I have to be out for medical reasons this afternoon, but I will keep
thinking about this, it is really puzzling.
And expensive.
On 2025-07-08 13:48, Davey wrote:
On 8 Jul 2025 11:46:53 GMT
Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I have a 'Smart' meter on my water supply. I have a softener for
the house supply that regenerates based on the amount of water
used. The only unsoftened outlets are the kitchen drinking water
cold tap, and the outdoor tap, both of which come from the same
pipe. Recently, in the last month, the softener's salt
consumption has gone up, considerably. I looked at the water
meter readings, and they agree. But I cannot think of any change
in my water use. The obvious thought is that there is a leak, but
where? I can find absolutely no sign of any. The outside tap does
not leak, and is shut off indoors anyway. None of the taps are
dripping. None of the overflows are showing any discharge. The
drains for the washing machine and the dishwasher need power to
run water to the drain. There is a cellar in the middle of the
house, where I would expect any water that leaked out to
gravitate to, but it is dry. The box where the outside pipe
enters the house is dry, so no leaks there, and the underground
space outside which houses the meter is similarly dry. There is
no sound of running water in the softener box, which is right
above the entry box. The recorded meter readings give little
help, they are sporadic and interrupted enough that trying to
correlate high water use with a known event in the house is very
difficult indeed. But on a day when I did a clothes wash, and
therefore used maybe 80-100 litres more than a 'normal' day, the
readings show that I had minimal use! The water company online
query system says that it could take up to 10 days to respond to
questions. As much as the reported readings are of little help,
they do confirm that the theoretical leak is of softened water,
and all but 1 run of that is in the house, so would be
discovered. Only one run, to the kitchen, is underground, in
concrete. I hope that there is no leak there, it would be messy
to fix that. And how do I check?
I am trying to think of experiments using selective shut-offs to
try to isolate any leak, but the random meter readings reported by
the water company do not help detailed analysis. Luckily, as we
are in summer, I can leave the supply turned off without worrying
about anything running dry and burning out.
Any helpful ideas would be welcome.
Have a *very* close look in your toilet pan/s and see if the flush
valve is leaking down the back of the pan. It can be almost
invisible without laying a sheet of toilet paper on it.
Tim
I thought that the syphonic flush system eliminated that? We had
that fault several times in the US, but they always had a single
rubber flap under full cistern pressure, that seemed to be designed
to leak if at all possible.
And if it is that small a leak, it wouldn't add up to the volume
that I seem to be losing somewhere.
I have to be out for medical reasons this afternoon, but I will keep thinking about this, it is really puzzling.
And expensive.
It's not the flush that dribbles. If the ball valve leaks and the
cistern overfills, modern loos have the overflow invisibly going into
the pan, not as before obviously dripping from an overflow pipe
outside.
It's not the flush that dribbles. If the ball valve leaks and the
cistern overfills, modern loos have the overflow invisibly going into
the pan, not as before obviously dripping from an overflow pipe outside.
On 8 Jul 2025 11:46:53 GMT
Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I have a 'Smart' meter on my water supply. I have a softener for the
house supply that regenerates based on the amount of water used. The
only unsoftened outlets are the kitchen drinking water cold tap, and
the outdoor tap, both of which come from the same pipe.
Recently, in the last month, the softener's salt consumption has
gone up, considerably. I looked at the water meter readings, and
they agree. But I cannot think of any change in my water use.
The obvious thought is that there is a leak, but where? I can find
absolutely no sign of any. The outside tap does not leak, and is
shut off indoors anyway. None of the taps are dripping. None of the
overflows are showing any discharge. The drains for the washing
machine and the dishwasher need power to run water to the drain.
There is a cellar in the middle of the house, where I would expect
any water that leaked out to gravitate to, but it is dry. The box
where the outside pipe enters the house is dry, so no leaks there,
and the underground space outside which houses the meter is
similarly dry. There is no sound of running water in the softener
box, which is right above the entry box.
The recorded meter readings give little help, they are sporadic and
interrupted enough that trying to correlate high water use with a
known event in the house is very difficult indeed. But on a day
when I did a clothes wash, and therefore used maybe 80-100 litres
more than a 'normal' day, the readings show that I had minimal use!
The water company online query system says that it could take up to
10 days to respond to questions.
As much as the reported readings are of little help, they do confirm
that the theoretical leak is of softened water, and all but 1 run of
that is in the house, so would be discovered. Only one run, to the
kitchen, is underground, in concrete. I hope that there is no leak
there, it would be messy to fix that. And how do I check?
I am trying to think of experiments using selective shut-offs to
try to isolate any leak, but the random meter readings reported by
the water company do not help detailed analysis. Luckily, as we are
in summer, I can leave the supply turned off without worrying about
anything running dry and burning out.
Any helpful ideas would be welcome.
Have a *very* close look in your toilet pan/s and see if the flush
valve is leaking down the back of the pan. It can be almost
invisible without laying a sheet of toilet paper on it.
Tim
I thought that the syphonic flush system eliminated that? We had that
fault several times in the US, but they always had a single rubber flap
under full cistern pressure, that seemed to be designed to leak if at
all possible.
On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 15:55:39 +0100
nib <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote:
On 2025-07-08 13:48, Davey wrote:
On 8 Jul 2025 11:46:53 GMT
Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I have a 'Smart' meter on my water supply. I have a softener for
the house supply that regenerates based on the amount of water
used. The only unsoftened outlets are the kitchen drinking water
cold tap, and the outdoor tap, both of which come from the same
pipe. Recently, in the last month, the softener's salt
consumption has gone up, considerably. I looked at the water
meter readings, and they agree. But I cannot think of any change
in my water use. The obvious thought is that there is a leak,
but where? I can find absolutely no sign of any. The outside
tap does not leak, and is shut off indoors anyway. None of the
taps are dripping. None of the overflows are showing any
discharge. The drains for the washing machine and the
dishwasher need power to run water to the drain. There is a
cellar in the middle of the house, where I would expect any
water that leaked out to gravitate to, but it is dry. The box
where the outside pipe enters the house is dry, so no leaks
there, and the underground space outside which houses the meter
is similarly dry. There is no sound of running water in the
softener box, which is right above the entry box. The recorded
meter readings give little help, they are sporadic and
interrupted enough that trying to correlate high water use with
a known event in the house is very difficult indeed. But on a
day when I did a clothes wash, and therefore used maybe 80-100
litres more than a 'normal' day, the readings show that I had
minimal use! The water company online query system says that it
could take up to 10 days to respond to questions. As much as
the reported readings are of little help, they do confirm that
the theoretical leak is of softened water, and all but 1 run of
that is in the house, so would be discovered. Only one run, to
the kitchen, is underground, in concrete. I hope that there is
no leak there, it would be messy to fix that. And how do I
check?
I am trying to think of experiments using selective shut-offs to
try to isolate any leak, but the random meter readings reported
by the water company do not help detailed analysis. Luckily, as
we are in summer, I can leave the supply turned off without
worrying about anything running dry and burning out.
Any helpful ideas would be welcome.
Have a *very* close look in your toilet pan/s and see if the
flush valve is leaking down the back of the pan. It can be
almost invisible without laying a sheet of toilet paper on it.
Tim
I thought that the syphonic flush system eliminated that? We had
that fault several times in the US, but they always had a single
rubber flap under full cistern pressure, that seemed to be
designed to leak if at all possible.
And if it is that small a leak, it wouldn't add up to the volume
that I seem to be losing somewhere.
I have to be out for medical reasons this afternoon, but I will
keep thinking about this, it is really puzzling.
And expensive.
It's not the flush that dribbles. If the ball valve leaks and the
cistern overfills, modern loos have the overflow invisibly going
into the pan, not as before obviously dripping from an overflow pipe outside.
Limescale on the diaphragm of the filling valve, or possibly a crack
or tear. It's usually some complicated plastic mechanism rather than
just a float. If you know what model the mechanism is, spares are
normally easy to find.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
On 8 Jul 2025 11:46:53 GMT
Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I have a 'Smart' meter on my water supply. I have a softener for
the house supply that regenerates based on the amount of water
used. The only unsoftened outlets are the kitchen drinking water
cold tap, and the outdoor tap, both of which come from the same
pipe. Recently, in the last month, the softener's salt
consumption has gone up, considerably. I looked at the water
meter readings, and they agree. But I cannot think of any change
in my water use. The obvious thought is that there is a leak, but
where? I can find absolutely no sign of any. The outside tap does
not leak, and is shut off indoors anyway. None of the taps are
dripping. None of the overflows are showing any discharge. The
drains for the washing machine and the dishwasher need power to
run water to the drain. There is a cellar in the middle of the
house, where I would expect any water that leaked out to
gravitate to, but it is dry. The box where the outside pipe
enters the house is dry, so no leaks there, and the underground
space outside which houses the meter is similarly dry. There is
no sound of running water in the softener box, which is right
above the entry box. The recorded meter readings give little
help, they are sporadic and interrupted enough that trying to
correlate high water use with a known event in the house is very
difficult indeed. But on a day when I did a clothes wash, and
therefore used maybe 80-100 litres more than a 'normal' day, the
readings show that I had minimal use! The water company online
query system says that it could take up to 10 days to respond to
questions. As much as the reported readings are of little help,
they do confirm that the theoretical leak is of softened water,
and all but 1 run of that is in the house, so would be
discovered. Only one run, to the kitchen, is underground, in
concrete. I hope that there is no leak there, it would be messy
to fix that. And how do I check?
I am trying to think of experiments using selective shut-offs to
try to isolate any leak, but the random meter readings reported by
the water company do not help detailed analysis. Luckily, as we
are in summer, I can leave the supply turned off without worrying
about anything running dry and burning out.
Any helpful ideas would be welcome.
Have a *very* close look in your toilet pan/s and see if the flush
valve is leaking down the back of the pan. It can be almost
invisible without laying a sheet of toilet paper on it.
Tim
I thought that the syphonic flush system eliminated that? We had
that fault several times in the US, but they always had a single
rubber flap under full cistern pressure, that seemed to be designed
to leak if at all possible.
Do you have a syphonic flush? All newer ones are flapper valves of
one sort or another.
Tim
On 8 Jul 2025 17:29:50 GMT
Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
On 8 Jul 2025 11:46:53 GMT
Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I have a 'Smart' meter on my water supply. I have a softener for
the house supply that regenerates based on the amount of water
used. The only unsoftened outlets are the kitchen drinking water
cold tap, and the outdoor tap, both of which come from the same
pipe. Recently, in the last month, the softener's salt
consumption has gone up, considerably. I looked at the water
meter readings, and they agree. But I cannot think of any change
in my water use. The obvious thought is that there is a leak, but
where? I can find absolutely no sign of any. The outside tap does
not leak, and is shut off indoors anyway. None of the taps are
dripping. None of the overflows are showing any discharge. The
drains for the washing machine and the dishwasher need power to
run water to the drain. There is a cellar in the middle of the
house, where I would expect any water that leaked out to
gravitate to, but it is dry. The box where the outside pipe
enters the house is dry, so no leaks there, and the underground
space outside which houses the meter is similarly dry. There is
no sound of running water in the softener box, which is right
above the entry box. The recorded meter readings give little
help, they are sporadic and interrupted enough that trying to
correlate high water use with a known event in the house is very
difficult indeed. But on a day when I did a clothes wash, and
therefore used maybe 80-100 litres more than a 'normal' day, the
readings show that I had minimal use! The water company online
query system says that it could take up to 10 days to respond to
questions. As much as the reported readings are of little help,
they do confirm that the theoretical leak is of softened water,
and all but 1 run of that is in the house, so would be
discovered. Only one run, to the kitchen, is underground, in
concrete. I hope that there is no leak there, it would be messy
to fix that. And how do I check?
I am trying to think of experiments using selective shut-offs to
try to isolate any leak, but the random meter readings reported by
the water company do not help detailed analysis. Luckily, as we
are in summer, I can leave the supply turned off without worrying
about anything running dry and burning out.
Any helpful ideas would be welcome.
Have a *very* close look in your toilet pan/s and see if the flush
valve is leaking down the back of the pan. It can be almost
invisible without laying a sheet of toilet paper on it.
Tim
I thought that the syphonic flush system eliminated that? We had
that fault several times in the US, but they always had a single
rubber flap under full cistern pressure, that seemed to be designed
to leak if at all possible.
Do you have a syphonic flush? All newer ones are flapper valves of
one sort or another.
Tim
This house is certainly not new, it has a thatched roof, and ceased
being a pub in 1937.
Why have they changed to flapper valves? They leak, as I know to my
cost (literally).
On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 15:55:39 +0100, nib <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk>
wrote:
It's not the flush that dribbles. If the ball valve leaks and the
cistern overfills, modern loos have the overflow invisibly going into
the pan, not as before obviously dripping from an overflow pipe outside.
+1 An issue that I experienced, and I lost more water over six months
than I had used normally in more than 20 years. Fortunately Severn
Trent took pity on me.
On 08/07/2025 16:57, Peter Johnson wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 15:55:39 +0100, nib <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk>
wrote:
It's not the flush that dribbles. If the ball valve leaks and the
cistern overfills, modern loos have the overflow invisibly going
into the pan, not as before obviously dripping from an overflow
pipe outside.
+1 An issue that I experienced, and I lost more water over six
months than I had used normally in more than 20 years. Fortunately
Severn Trent took pity on me.
I believe that water companies allow you to have one leak that they
won't charge you for.
In our previous house our water usage suddenly increased one period
(we were metered). I can't remember the exact amount, but it was
around 20m^3 extra! The water company found a leak on our property a
metre before the pipe went under the wall. It was in a 1" plastic
pipe which had been in position for 30+ years, and apparently had
been laid on a piece of sharp stone which had slowly worked its way
into the plastic.
On 8 Jul 2025, Davey wrote
(in article <104iqbe$3g044$1@dont-email.me>):
Any helpful ideas would be welcome.
My insurance company has given me a “LeakBot” device, which attaches
to the pipe just after the main stop cock. It monitors daily usage,
which I can read on the accompanying app, but it also sends you a
warning if there is a steady flow such as with a leak...
Also, if you have a header tank for the cold water supply in your
house, or one for a central heating system, check the ball cocks have
not stuck open...
As much as the reported readings are of little help, they do confirm
that the theoretical leak is of softened water, and all but 1 run of
that is in the house, so would be discovered. Only one run, to the
kitchen, is underground, in concrete. I hope that there is no leak
there, it would be messy to fix that. And how do I check?
On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 12:24:46 +0100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
wrote:
As much as the reported readings are of little help, they do confirm
that the theoretical leak is of softened water, and all but 1 run of
that is in the house, so would be discovered. Only one run, to the
kitchen, is underground, in concrete. I hope that there is no leak
there, it would be messy to fix that. And how do I check?
There are acoustic leak detectors... contact microphones that amplify
the sound the water makes as it exits under pressure. Some of the
units are thousands -- but Aliexpress will send you a simple unit for
under 10 pounds including shipping.
"Water Leak Detector Multi-functional Sound Detector For Pipe Water
Leak Suitable for leak detection of various construction pipe"
Or possibly you could shut off the suspect bit, drain it, and
pressurize it with air? This to either prove it's not leaking, or
hope that the increased leak rate will make the leak more obvious.
Rig together a tire valve and some sort of fitting, or buy something
like:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gardena-drainage-valve-set-attachments/dp/B09J9375MV
Thomas Prufer
On 08/07/2025 21:21, Davey wrote:
Why have they changed to flapper valves? They leak, as I know to my
cost (literally).
The flapper valve arrangement makes it easy to have a dual volume
flush
- part or full flush depending on the user's choice.
Why have they changed to flapper valves? They leak, as I know to my
cost (literally).
On Wed, 9 Jul 2025 13:18:02 +0100
Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:
On 08/07/2025 21:21, Davey wrote:
Why have they changed to flapper valves? They leak, as I know to myThe flapper valve arrangement makes it easy to have a dual volume
cost (literally).
flush
- part or full flush depending on the user's choice.
Thrills. Many of those that I have used don't appear to work very well.
On 08/07/2025 16:57, Peter Johnson wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 15:55:39 +0100, nib <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk>
wrote:
It's not the flush that dribbles. If the ball valve leaks and the
cistern overfills, modern loos have the overflow invisibly going into
the pan, not as before obviously dripping from an overflow pipe outside. >>>
+1 An issue that I experienced, and I lost more water over six months
than I had used normally in more than 20 years. Fortunately Severn
Trent took pity on me.
I believe that water companies allow you to have one leak that they
won't charge you for.
In our previous house our water usage suddenly increased one period (we
were metered). I can't remember the exact amount, but it was around
20m^3 extra! The water company found a leak on our property a metre
before the pipe went under the wall. It was in a 1" plastic pipe which
had been in position for 30+ years, and apparently had been laid on a
piece of sharp stone which had slowly worked its way into the plastic.
On 08/07/2025 16:57, Peter Johnson wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 15:55:39 +0100, nib <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk>
wrote:
It's not the flush that dribbles. If the ball valve leaks and the
cistern overfills, modern loos have the overflow invisibly going into
the pan, not as before obviously dripping from an overflow pipe outside. >>>
+1 An issue that I experienced, and I lost more water over six months
than I had used normally in more than 20 years. Fortunately Severn
Trent took pity on me.
I believe that water companies allow you to have one leak that they
won't charge you for.
In our previous house our water usage suddenly increased one period (we
Stupid changes in regulations. Probably down to water saving in regular
use, without taking account the potential for waste when they go wrong. >Overflows always used to have to exit outside so that a failing ballcock >overflow was visible. Now it just trickles down the pan, frequently >unnoticed.
On Wed, 9 Jul 2025 08:07:58 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
On 08/07/2025 16:57, Peter Johnson wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 15:55:39 +0100, nib <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk>
wrote:
It's not the flush that dribbles. If the ball valve leaks and the
cistern overfills, modern loos have the overflow invisibly going
into the pan, not as before obviously dripping from an overflow
pipe outside.
+1 An issue that I experienced, and I lost more water over six
months than I had used normally in more than 20 years. Fortunately
Severn Trent took pity on me.
I believe that water companies allow you to have one leak that they
won't charge you for.
In our previous house our water usage suddenly increased one period
(we
Yes. ST did say 'don't do it again.'
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