Close-coupled toilet c2005 and the syphon is not raising the water.
It's a Jetflow syphon though not sure if that makes any difference.
If I'm very careful I can depress the handle, somewhat gently, release
and do it again and it seems to manage to tip the water into the
syphon tube.
With visitors due tomorrow I'm reluctant to try and take everything
apart (to be honest I'm reluctant anyway) but wondering if there is
any magic fix?
AnthonyL <nospam@please.invalid> wrote:
Close-coupled toilet c2005 and the syphon is not raising the water.
It's a Jetflow syphon though not sure if that makes any difference.
If I'm very careful I can depress the handle, somewhat gently, release
and do it again and it seems to manage to tip the water into the
syphon tube.
With visitors due tomorrow I'm reluctant to try and take everything
apart (to be honest I'm reluctant anyway) but wondering if there is
any magic fix?
Tell them to pump the handle until you can get around to replacing the
flush mechanism.
Tim
On 11/07/2025 21:31, Tim+ wrote:
AnthonyL <nospam@please.invalid> wrote:
Close-coupled toilet c2005 and the syphon is not raising the water.
It's a Jetflow syphon though not sure if that makes any difference.
If I'm very careful I can depress the handle, somewhat gently, release
and do it again and it seems to manage to tip the water into the
syphon tube.
With visitors due tomorrow I'm reluctant to try and take everything
apart (to be honest I'm reluctant anyway) but wondering if there is
any magic fix?
Tell them to pump the handle until you can get around to replacing the
flush mechanism.
Tim
Provide a bucket of water for flushing purposes?
On 11/07/2025 23:37, GB wrote:
On 11/07/2025 21:31, Tim+ wrote:
AnthonyL <nospam@please.invalid> wrote:
Close-coupled toilet c2005 and the syphon is not raising the water.
It's a Jetflow syphon though not sure if that makes any difference.
If I'm very careful I can depress the handle, somewhat gently, release >>>> and do it again and it seems to manage to tip the water into the
syphon tube.
With visitors due tomorrow I'm reluctant to try and take everything
apart (to be honest I'm reluctant anyway) but wondering if there is
any magic fix?
Tell them to pump the handle until you can get around to replacing the
flush mechanism.
Tim
Provide a bucket of water for flushing purposes?
Or provide the bucket for other uses:) You don't want them to use a
toilet that doesn't flush properly.
Close-coupled toilet c2005 and the syphon is not raising the water.
It's a Jetflow syphon though not sure if that makes any difference.
If I'm very careful I can depress the handle, somewhat gently, release
and do it again and it seems to manage to tip the water into the
syphon tube.
With visitors due tomorrow I'm reluctant to try and take everything
apart (to be honest I'm reluctant anyway) but wondering if there is
any magic fix?
It was useless on the hot Saturday but now has started working again.
Seems as if there is a plastic flap as the base of the piston and this
gets tears or loses its structure. A gentle depress then another
steady one and it works. YouTube fixes look easy providing everything unscrews well and the right doughnut fitting is used.
On 14/07/2025 19:55, AnthonyL wrote:
It was useless on the hot Saturday but now has started working again.
Seems as if there is a plastic flap as the base of the piston and this
gets tears or loses its structure. A gentle depress then another
steady one and it works. YouTube fixes look easy providing everything
unscrews well and the right doughnut fitting is used.
The last toilet I fixed for non-flushing was a complete PITA.
It was a close coupled unit using this type of fixing >https://www.screwfix.com/p/fluidmaster-cistern-close-coupling-kit/346jm
Over the years, liquid cleaning materials or more likely urine had got >between the pan and cistern and rusted both the plate and bolts. To
remove required levering up the cistern a tiny bit to get a junior
hacksaw blade (minus the little fixing pip on the blade) in to saw
through the bolts. An hour of fun with little space to work.
Changing the flushing mechanism was straight forward BUT the cistern was >quite small and made worse by very rounded sides - a sort of half oval
cross sectional area. I'm beginning to hate anything now described as >"designer". A suitable smaller dimension universal fitting flushing
mechanism had to be found but luckily found in Screwfix/Toolstation.
If the toilet is close coupled and has been fitted any length of time I >highly recommend getting a new fixing kit including doughnut, fixing
bolts and rubber seals before starting, and discarding the old fixing
kit. There is more than one type of fixing between pan and cistern but >Screwfix/Toolstation tend to stock them all.
On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 11:25:14 +0100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:
On 14/07/2025 19:55, AnthonyL wrote:
It was useless on the hot Saturday but now has started working again.
Seems as if there is a plastic flap as the base of the piston and this
gets tears or loses its structure. A gentle depress then another
steady one and it works. YouTube fixes look easy providing everything
unscrews well and the right doughnut fitting is used.
The last toilet I fixed for non-flushing was a complete PITA.
It was a close coupled unit using this type of fixing >>https://www.screwfix.com/p/fluidmaster-cistern-close-coupling-kit/346jm
Over the years, liquid cleaning materials or more likely urine had got >>between the pan and cistern and rusted both the plate and bolts. To
remove required levering up the cistern a tiny bit to get a junior
hacksaw blade (minus the little fixing pip on the blade) in to saw
through the bolts. An hour of fun with little space to work.
Changing the flushing mechanism was straight forward BUT the cistern was >>quite small and made worse by very rounded sides - a sort of half oval >>cross sectional area. I'm beginning to hate anything now described as >>"designer". A suitable smaller dimension universal fitting flushing >>mechanism had to be found but luckily found in Screwfix/Toolstation.
If the toilet is close coupled and has been fitted any length of time I >>highly recommend getting a new fixing kit including doughnut, fixing
bolts and rubber seals before starting, and discarding the old fixing
kit. There is more than one type of fixing between pan and cistern but >>Screwfix/Toolstation tend to stock them all.
Thanks for the tips. My flush doesn't need to be replaced.. ...yet
(crosses fingers, touches wood and everything else) but after at least
12 years in operation it's starting to make a sort of scraping noise
when the button is pressed and water occasionally continues to trickle >through to the pan after a flush although the next flush generally
cures it. Nevertheless, I fear it's only a matter of time...
This https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286490647781 seems to be the likely
cause of my poor flushing.
We've been looking at new bathroom suites etc for a couple of months
and before this issue. Everything seems to be designed to be
invisible and inaccessible. Pipes have to be hidden, no recessed
tiles for the toilet roll holder etc etc.
On 15/07/2025 21:06, AnthonyL wrote:
We've been looking at new bathroom suites etc for a couple of months
and before this issue. Everything seems to be designed to be
invisible and inaccessible. Pipes have to be hidden, no recessed
tiles for the toilet roll holder etc etc.
I have some T shirts. I fitted a toilet and then a few years later I
took it out and fitted a different design. Toilets that friends of mine
have are crap :)
My advice with toilets, especially if DIY
Avoid the "continental" style with a flat(ish) shelf in front. Urine >splashback and having to use a brush on every poo.
Avoid square shaped toilets. You have to stand further back as you
cannot straddle the bowl easily. Seats tend to be unique to the
brand/model and you will require a second mortgage if you want a
replacement.
Avoid toilets that enclose the pipework at the back. They may look neat
but unless the waste pipe exactly aligns with the outlet of the toilet
you may find that it takes half a life time to get them connected
correctly. Maybe more of a problem in older houses.
Check where the fill value has to be located. On many close coupled
cisterns the fill value can be fitted either side but on some toilets I >looked at only on one side.
Check the reviews for poor flushing. One of the fully working toilets in
a friends house doesn't put any water to the top half of the front of
the pan. It appears to be a design limitation as there are no holes in
the front of the rim. Some reviews I look at when buying a toilet
mentioned poor flushing.
Avoid toilets with blind seat fixing holes. In my experience most fixing
that go down these holes don't keep the toilet seat firmly in place over >time. I would always go with the type with a through hole where the bolt
goes through and you tighten a wing nut underneath. I apply a smear of
grease to both the bolt and wing nut. Tip: The hole to fit the seat is
often much larger than the bolt and the underside of the pan may not be
flat. I've used the tapered rubber washer from this >https://www.screwfix.com/p/fluidmaster-22106-close-coupled-cistern-bolt-set-18-pieces/517jm
between the underside of the pan and the washer and wing nut. It centres
the bolt and allows for any unevenness of the pan surface.
For another T shirt that I own :) If going for a toilet with a lever
flush make sure that the lever and collars are on a flat surface of the >cistern. Another designer piece of crap I had to fix was a broken lever >assembly where the lever was mounted on a rounded corner of the cistern
and the collars, outside and inside, were both shaped for this curve. A >replacement was made out of unobtainium and the kits available cheaply
from almost anywhere couldn't be made to fit. In the end I had to fix
the broken plastic collars but it did involve inserting a strengthening
ring of wire by melting it into the plastic bits with a soldering iron.
In general I would recommend traditionally shaped toilets/pan, they
mainly got it right 100 years ago and it doesn't need a "designer" to
come up with something different.
Perhaps go with something fairly plain as some fancy moulding on the
cistern may mean that the crappy sink that comes with a good toilet may
be on the purchase list. I've seen some really badly designed sinks,
mainly installed in office block type environments. Shallow curved
sinks that when the tap is tuned on and the pressure is too high either >immediately directs the water out to the user or onto a work surface.
Consider the size and positioning of the taps in a bathroom sink. If in
the habit,say, of washing your hair in a sink with a centrally located
mixer type tap means that you cannot get your head down far enough to
rinse efficiently without hitting the tap :(
In general I would recommend traditionally shaped toilets/pan, they
mainly got it right 100 years ago and it doesn't need a "designer" to
come up with something different.
On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 10:24:13 +0100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:
On 15/07/2025 21:06, AnthonyL wrote:
We've been looking at new bathroom suites etc for a couple of months
and before this issue. Everything seems to be designed to be
invisible and inaccessible. Pipes have to be hidden, no recessed
tiles for the toilet roll holder etc etc.
I have some T shirts. I fitted a toilet and then a few years later I
took it out and fitted a different design. Toilets that friends of mine
have are crap :)
My advice with toilets, especially if DIY
Avoid the "continental" style with a flat(ish) shelf in front. Urine
splashback and having to use a brush on every poo.
Avoid square shaped toilets. You have to stand further back as you
cannot straddle the bowl easily. Seats tend to be unique to the
brand/model and you will require a second mortgage if you want a
replacement.
Avoid toilets that enclose the pipework at the back. They may look neat
but unless the waste pipe exactly aligns with the outlet of the toilet
you may find that it takes half a life time to get them connected
correctly. Maybe more of a problem in older houses.
Check where the fill value has to be located. On many close coupled
cisterns the fill value can be fitted either side but on some toilets I
looked at only on one side.
Check the reviews for poor flushing. One of the fully working toilets in
a friends house doesn't put any water to the top half of the front of
the pan. It appears to be a design limitation as there are no holes in
the front of the rim. Some reviews I look at when buying a toilet
mentioned poor flushing.
Avoid toilets with blind seat fixing holes. In my experience most fixing
that go down these holes don't keep the toilet seat firmly in place over
time. I would always go with the type with a through hole where the bolt
goes through and you tighten a wing nut underneath. I apply a smear of
grease to both the bolt and wing nut. Tip: The hole to fit the seat is
often much larger than the bolt and the underside of the pan may not be
flat. I've used the tapered rubber washer from this
https://www.screwfix.com/p/fluidmaster-22106-close-coupled-cistern-bolt-set-18-pieces/517jm
between the underside of the pan and the washer and wing nut. It centres
the bolt and allows for any unevenness of the pan surface.
For another T shirt that I own :) If going for a toilet with a lever
flush make sure that the lever and collars are on a flat surface of the
cistern. Another designer piece of crap I had to fix was a broken lever
assembly where the lever was mounted on a rounded corner of the cistern
and the collars, outside and inside, were both shaped for this curve. A
replacement was made out of unobtainium and the kits available cheaply >>from almost anywhere couldn't be made to fit. In the end I had to fix
the broken plastic collars but it did involve inserting a strengthening
ring of wire by melting it into the plastic bits with a soldering iron.
In general I would recommend traditionally shaped toilets/pan, they
mainly got it right 100 years ago and it doesn't need a "designer" to
come up with something different.
Perhaps go with something fairly plain as some fancy moulding on the
cistern may mean that the crappy sink that comes with a good toilet may
be on the purchase list. I've seen some really badly designed sinks,
mainly installed in office block type environments. Shallow curved
sinks that when the tap is tuned on and the pressure is too high either
immediately directs the water out to the user or onto a work surface.
Consider the size and positioning of the taps in a bathroom sink. If in
the habit,say, of washing your hair in a sink with a centrally located
mixer type tap means that you cannot get your head down far enough to
rinse efficiently without hitting the tap :(
Some good pointers there, style over substance.
I recently complained about a "high end" toaster. Form over function:
Only one side of bread toasts
Controls on side and in black so can't see them
Thermostat control easily moves when reaching for the lever
Lever doesn't raise toast high enough when needing to turn the bread
round to toast the other side.
Outside of toaster gets hot.
But hey - it looks pretty.
Where's all the engineers when you need them?
On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 10:24:13 +0100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:
On 15/07/2025 21:06, AnthonyL wrote:
We've been looking at new bathroom suites etc for a couple of months
and before this issue. Everything seems to be designed to be
invisible and inaccessible. Pipes have to be hidden, no recessed
tiles for the toilet roll holder etc etc.
I have some T shirts. I fitted a toilet and then a few years later I
took it out and fitted a different design. Toilets that friends of mine
have are crap :)
My advice with toilets, especially if DIY
Avoid the "continental" style with a flat(ish) shelf in front. Urine
splashback and having to use a brush on every poo.
Avoid square shaped toilets. You have to stand further back as you
cannot straddle the bowl easily. Seats tend to be unique to the
brand/model and you will require a second mortgage if you want a
replacement.
Avoid toilets that enclose the pipework at the back. They may look neat
but unless the waste pipe exactly aligns with the outlet of the toilet
you may find that it takes half a life time to get them connected
correctly. Maybe more of a problem in older houses.
Check where the fill value has to be located. On many close coupled
cisterns the fill value can be fitted either side but on some toilets I
looked at only on one side.
Check the reviews for poor flushing. One of the fully working toilets in
a friends house doesn't put any water to the top half of the front of
the pan. It appears to be a design limitation as there are no holes in
the front of the rim. Some reviews I look at when buying a toilet
mentioned poor flushing.
Avoid toilets with blind seat fixing holes. In my experience most fixing
that go down these holes don't keep the toilet seat firmly in place over
time. I would always go with the type with a through hole where the bolt
goes through and you tighten a wing nut underneath. I apply a smear of
grease to both the bolt and wing nut. Tip: The hole to fit the seat is
often much larger than the bolt and the underside of the pan may not be
flat. I've used the tapered rubber washer from this
https://www.screwfix.com/p/fluidmaster-22106-close-coupled-cistern-bolt-set-18-pieces/517jm
between the underside of the pan and the washer and wing nut. It centres
the bolt and allows for any unevenness of the pan surface.
For another T shirt that I own :) If going for a toilet with a lever
flush make sure that the lever and collars are on a flat surface of the
cistern. Another designer piece of crap I had to fix was a broken lever
assembly where the lever was mounted on a rounded corner of the cistern
and the collars, outside and inside, were both shaped for this curve. A
replacement was made out of unobtainium and the kits available cheaply >>from almost anywhere couldn't be made to fit. In the end I had to fix
the broken plastic collars but it did involve inserting a strengthening
ring of wire by melting it into the plastic bits with a soldering iron.
In general I would recommend traditionally shaped toilets/pan, they
mainly got it right 100 years ago and it doesn't need a "designer" to
come up with something different.
Perhaps go with something fairly plain as some fancy moulding on the
cistern may mean that the crappy sink that comes with a good toilet may
be on the purchase list. I've seen some really badly designed sinks,
mainly installed in office block type environments. Shallow curved
sinks that when the tap is tuned on and the pressure is too high either
immediately directs the water out to the user or onto a work surface.
Consider the size and positioning of the taps in a bathroom sink. If in
the habit,say, of washing your hair in a sink with a centrally located
mixer type tap means that you cannot get your head down far enough to
rinse efficiently without hitting the tap :(
Some good pointers there, style over substance.
I recently complained about a "high end" toaster. Form over function:
Only one side of bread toasts
Controls on side and in black so can't see them
Thermostat control easily moves when reaching for the lever
Lever doesn't raise toast high enough when needing to turn the bread
round to toast the other side.
Outside of toaster gets hot.
But hey - it looks pretty.
Where's all the engineers when you need them?
They were let go, to make room for more Marketing folk.
On 16/07/2025 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
They were let go, to make room for more Marketing folk.
Some truth in that :)
The company I ended working for had redundancies approx every 2 years.
In general voluntary redundancies with a fairly decent payoff. The first
two rounds were mainly design and production support engineers.
It wasn't until the third round that management discovered that they
probably didn't require some support staff, especially as more engineers
were to go.
A further round of redundancies got rid of more engineers but also a lot
of support staff including many PAs or personal secretaries for senior management. I think this is when senior management found some of the
internal bureaucratic processes they had instigated were a PITA when
they had to use them themselves.
As an design engineer I took voluntary redundancy in a later round with
two years to go until my official state retirement date and with 1.5
years salary as a redundancy settlement. It wasn't until this time the marketing department was hit, and I've been told it was mainly
compulsory redundancies.
On 16/07/2025 12:34, AnthonyL wrote:
Where's all the engineers when you need them?
They were let go, to make room for more Marketing folk.
Over the years, liquid cleaning materials or more likely urine had
got between the pan and cistern and rusted both the plate and bolts.
To remove required levering up the cistern a tiny bit to get a junior
hacksaw blade (minus the little fixing pip on the blade) in to saw
through the bolts. An hour of fun with little space to work.
On 15/07/2025 21:06, AnthonyL wrote:
We've been looking at new bathroom suites etc for a couple of months
and before this issue. Everything seems to be designed to be
invisible and inaccessible. Pipes have to be hidden, no recessed
tiles for the toilet roll holder etc etc.
I have some T shirts. I fitted a toilet and then a few years later I
took it out and fitted a different design. Toilets that friends of mine
have are crap :)
My advice with toilets, especially if DIY
Avoid the "continental" style with a flat(ish) shelf in front. Urine >splashback and having to use a brush on every poo.
Avoid square shaped toilets. You have to stand further back as you
cannot straddle the bowl easily. Seats tend to be unique to the
brand/model and you will require a second mortgage if you want a
replacement.
Avoid toilets that enclose the pipework at the back. They may look neat
but unless the waste pipe exactly aligns with the outlet of the toilet
you may find that it takes half a life time to get them connected
correctly. Maybe more of a problem in older houses.
Check where the fill value has to be located. On many close coupled
cisterns the fill value can be fitted either side but on some toilets I >looked at only on one side.
Check the reviews for poor flushing. One of the fully working toilets in
a friends house doesn't put any water to the top half of the front of
the pan. It appears to be a design limitation as there are no holes in
the front of the rim. Some reviews I look at when buying a toilet
mentioned poor flushing.
Avoid toilets with blind seat fixing holes. In my experience most fixing
that go down these holes don't keep the toilet seat firmly in place over >time. I would always go with the type with a through hole where the bolt
goes through and you tighten a wing nut underneath. I apply a smear of
grease to both the bolt and wing nut. Tip: The hole to fit the seat is
often much larger than the bolt and the underside of the pan may not be
flat. I've used the tapered rubber washer from this >https://www.screwfix.com/p/fluidmaster-22106-close-coupled-cistern-bolt-set-18-pieces/517jm
between the underside of the pan and the washer and wing nut. It centres
the bolt and allows for any unevenness of the pan surface.
For another T shirt that I own :) If going for a toilet with a lever
flush make sure that the lever and collars are on a flat surface of the >cistern. Another designer piece of crap I had to fix was a broken lever >assembly where the lever was mounted on a rounded corner of the cistern
and the collars, outside and inside, were both shaped for this curve. A >replacement was made out of unobtainium and the kits available cheaply
from almost anywhere couldn't be made to fit. In the end I had to fix
the broken plastic collars but it did involve inserting a strengthening
ring of wire by melting it into the plastic bits with a soldering iron.
In general I would recommend traditionally shaped toilets/pan, they
mainly got it right 100 years ago and it doesn't need a "designer" to
come up with something different.
Perhaps go with something fairly plain as some fancy moulding on the
cistern may mean that the crappy sink that comes with a good toilet may
be on the purchase list. I've seen some really badly designed sinks,
mainly installed in office block type environments. Shallow curved
sinks that when the tap is tuned on and the pressure is too high either >immediately directs the water out to the user or onto a work surface.
Consider the size and positioning of the taps in a bathroom sink. If in
the habit,say, of washing your hair in a sink with a centrally located
mixer type tap means that you cannot get your head down far enough to
rinse efficiently without hitting the tap :(
On 2025-07-16 23:20, alan_m wrote:
On 16/07/2025 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
They were let go, to make room for more Marketing folk.
Some truth in that :)
The company I ended working for had redundancies approx every 2 years.
In general voluntary redundancies with a fairly decent payoff. The
first two rounds were mainly design and production support engineers.
It wasn't until the third round that management discovered that they
probably didn't require some support staff, especially as more
engineers were to go.
A further round of redundancies got rid of more engineers but also a
lot of support staff including many PAs or personal secretaries for
senior management. I think this is when senior management found some
of the internal bureaucratic processes they had instigated were a PITA
when they had to use them themselves.
As an design engineer I took voluntary redundancy in a later round
with two years to go until my official state retirement date and with
1.5 years salary as a redundancy settlement. It wasn't until this time
the marketing department was hit, and I've been told it was mainly
compulsory redundancies.
Although there is a view from the other side! This from 1954 for example:
"Because it is its purpose to create a customer, any business enterprise
has two - and only these two - basic functions: marketing and
innovation. They are the entrepreneurial functions."
Drucker (The Practice of Management)
On 17/07/2025 09:23, nib wrote:
On 2025-07-16 23:20, alan_m wrote:
On 16/07/2025 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
They were let go, to make room for more Marketing folk.
Some truth in that :)
The company I ended working for had redundancies approx every 2
years. In general voluntary redundancies with a fairly decent payoff.
The first two rounds were mainly design and production support
engineers.
It wasn't until the third round that management discovered that they
probably didn't require some support staff, especially as more
engineers were to go.
A further round of redundancies got rid of more engineers but also a
lot of support staff including many PAs or personal secretaries for
senior management. I think this is when senior management found some
of the internal bureaucratic processes they had instigated were a
PITA when they had to use them themselves.
As an design engineer I took voluntary redundancy in a later round
with two years to go until my official state retirement date and with
1.5 years salary as a redundancy settlement. It wasn't until this
time the marketing department was hit, and I've been told it was
mainly compulsory redundancies.
Although there is a view from the other side! This from 1954 for example:
"Because it is its purpose to create a customer, any business
enterprise has two - and only these two - basic functions: marketing
and innovation. They are the entrepreneurial functions."
Drucker (The Practice of Management)
Over time, that was taken to mean 'innovative management', not what the author intended.
I.e. Promote a radical change in structure, with redundancies to cut
costs - then move on to a new job sharpish before the fit hits the shan.
On 2025-07-17 20:10, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 17/07/2025 09:23, nib wrote:
On 2025-07-16 23:20, alan_m wrote:
On 16/07/2025 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
They were let go, to make room for more Marketing folk.
Some truth in that :)
The company I ended working for had redundancies approx every 2
years. In general voluntary redundancies with a fairly decent
payoff. The first two rounds were mainly design and production
support engineers.
It wasn't until the third round that management discovered that they
probably didn't require some support staff, especially as more
engineers were to go.
A further round of redundancies got rid of more engineers but also a
lot of support staff including many PAs or personal secretaries for
senior management. I think this is when senior management found some
of the internal bureaucratic processes they had instigated were a
PITA when they had to use them themselves.
As an design engineer I took voluntary redundancy in a later round
with two years to go until my official state retirement date and
with 1.5 years salary as a redundancy settlement. It wasn't until
this time the marketing department was hit, and I've been told it
was mainly compulsory redundancies.
Although there is a view from the other side! This from 1954 for
example:
"Because it is its purpose to create a customer, any business
enterprise has two - and only these two - basic functions: marketing
and innovation. They are the entrepreneurial functions."
Drucker (The Practice of Management)
Over time, that was taken to mean 'innovative management', not what
the author intended.
I.e. Promote a radical change in structure, with redundancies to cut
costs - then move on to a new job sharpish before the fit hits the shan.
I suppose it could be, if it were really innovative and worked!
However, switching from functional organisation to matrix organisation
and back again over a ten year cycle, not so much!
nib
On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 10:24:13 +0100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:
On 15/07/2025 21:06, AnthonyL wrote:
We've been looking at new bathroom suites etc for a couple of months
and before this issue. Everything seems to be designed to be
invisible and inaccessible. Pipes have to be hidden, no recessed
tiles for the toilet roll holder etc etc.
I have some T shirts. I fitted a toilet and then a few years later I
took it out and fitted a different design. Toilets that friends of mine
have are crap :)
My advice with toilets, especially if DIY
Avoid the "continental" style with a flat(ish) shelf in front. Urine
splashback and having to use a brush on every poo.
Avoid square shaped toilets. You have to stand further back as you
cannot straddle the bowl easily. Seats tend to be unique to the
brand/model and you will require a second mortgage if you want a
replacement.
Avoid toilets that enclose the pipework at the back. They may look neat
but unless the waste pipe exactly aligns with the outlet of the toilet
you may find that it takes half a life time to get them connected
correctly. Maybe more of a problem in older houses.
Check where the fill value has to be located. On many close coupled
cisterns the fill value can be fitted either side but on some toilets I
looked at only on one side.
Check the reviews for poor flushing. One of the fully working toilets in
a friends house doesn't put any water to the top half of the front of
the pan. It appears to be a design limitation as there are no holes in
the front of the rim. Some reviews I look at when buying a toilet
mentioned poor flushing.
Avoid toilets with blind seat fixing holes. In my experience most fixing
that go down these holes don't keep the toilet seat firmly in place over
time. I would always go with the type with a through hole where the bolt
goes through and you tighten a wing nut underneath. I apply a smear of
grease to both the bolt and wing nut. Tip: The hole to fit the seat is
often much larger than the bolt and the underside of the pan may not be
flat. I've used the tapered rubber washer from this
https://www.screwfix.com/p/fluidmaster-22106-close-coupled-cistern-bolt-set-18-pieces/517jm
between the underside of the pan and the washer and wing nut. It centres
the bolt and allows for any unevenness of the pan surface.
For another T shirt that I own :) If going for a toilet with a lever
flush make sure that the lever and collars are on a flat surface of the
cistern. Another designer piece of crap I had to fix was a broken lever
assembly where the lever was mounted on a rounded corner of the cistern
and the collars, outside and inside, were both shaped for this curve. A
replacement was made out of unobtainium and the kits available cheaply >>from almost anywhere couldn't be made to fit. In the end I had to fix
the broken plastic collars but it did involve inserting a strengthening
ring of wire by melting it into the plastic bits with a soldering iron.
In general I would recommend traditionally shaped toilets/pan, they
mainly got it right 100 years ago and it doesn't need a "designer" to
come up with something different.
Perhaps go with something fairly plain as some fancy moulding on the
cistern may mean that the crappy sink that comes with a good toilet may
be on the purchase list. I've seen some really badly designed sinks,
mainly installed in office block type environments. Shallow curved
sinks that when the tap is tuned on and the pressure is too high either
immediately directs the water out to the user or onto a work surface.
Consider the size and positioning of the taps in a bathroom sink. If in
the habit,say, of washing your hair in a sink with a centrally located
mixer type tap means that you cannot get your head down far enough to
rinse efficiently without hitting the tap :(
That is so clear and comprehensive, Alan, that it gets my vote for
being cut'n'pasted wholesale into the DIY Wiki.
I only used the fittings that were supplied, working on the principalBless!
that the manufacturer would get it right to avoid customer complaints &
bad reviews.
I only used the fittings that were supplied, working on the principal
that the manufacturer would get it right to avoid customer complaints &
bad reviews. So far so good.
On 18/07/2025 09:39, wasbit wrote:
I only used the fittings that were supplied, working on the principalBless!
that the manufacturer would get it right to avoid customer complaints
& bad reviews.
In almost all case - and i installed 4 in this house alone - I found
that the supplied gubbins was cheap shit and replaced it with better
quality products.
I am glad yours worked for you
Although there is a view from the other side! This from 1954 for example:
"Because it is its purpose to create a customer, any business enterprise
has two - and only these two - basic functions: marketing and
innovation. They are the entrepreneurial functions."
Drucker (The Practice of Management)
I went on so many management courses that explained to me why I should
do exactly what I had been doing anyway, and was always interpreted by
half the other attendees to do what they wanted, and the other half as bollocks.
Mostly Bloody Arseholes. MBA.
On 17/07/2025 09:23, nib wrote:
Although there is a view from the other side! This from 1954 for example:
"Because it is its purpose to create a customer, any business
enterprise has two - and only these two - basic functions: marketing
and innovation. They are the entrepreneurial functions."
Drucker (The Practice of Management)
Ah yes, Mr Rolls and Mr Royce. Although the general public calls it a
Roller, AIUI the owner's club refer to a Royce...
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