I submitted the accounts to Companies House and HMRC last month throughIt's happening in many forms of tax submissions. Anyone self employed,
the Companies House web site. HMRC say that they will not allow use of
that system from next March and that all accounts have to be sent using commercial software in XRBL format. Is anyone else in a similar
position? Is there some free or very cheap software that will do the
job?
Kit Jackson wrote:
HMRC say that they will not allow use of that system from next March
and that all accounts have to be sent using commercial software in
XRBL format.
I'm hoping they have an alternative for dormant companies.
HMRC say that they will not allow use of that system from next March
and that all accounts have to be sent using commercial software in
XRBL format.
I submitted the accounts to Companies House and HMRC last month through
the Companies House web site. HMRC say that they will not allow use of
that system from next March and that all accounts have to be sent using commercial software in XRBL format. Is anyone else in a similar
position? Is there some free or very cheap software that will do the
job?
Kit Jackson <notme@nowhere.com> wrote:
I submitted the accounts to Companies House and HMRC last month through
the Companies House web site. HMRC say that they will not allow use of that system from next March and that all accounts have to be sent using commercial software in XRBL format. Is anyone else in a similar
position? Is there some free or very cheap software that will do the
job?
I thought 'software submission' was becoming compulsory in February
2027 so we have a fair time to get sorted.
I'm director of two tiny companies one of which has been 'not trading'
for a few years. I asked Companies House if I had to submit a load of
zeroes using software and they said that I would have to.
I think we should demand something open source at least, the
government demands it of others now.
Kit Jackson wrote:
HMRC say that they will not allow use of that system from next March
and that all accounts have to be sent using commercial software in
XRBL format.
I'm hoping they have an alternative for dormant companies.
Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
Kit Jackson <notme@nowhere.com> wrote:
I submitted the accounts to Companies House and HMRC last month through
the Companies House web site. HMRC say that they will not allow use of
that system from next March and that all accounts have to be sent using
commercial software in XRBL format. Is anyone else in a similar
position? Is there some free or very cheap software that will do the
job?
I thought 'software submission' was becoming compulsory in February
2027 so we have a fair time to get sorted.
I'm director of two tiny companies one of which has been 'not trading'
for a few years. I asked Companies House if I had to submit a load of
zeroes using software and they said that I would have to.
I think we should demand something open source at least, the
government demands it of others now.
From what I can see XRBL is an open standard: https://www.xbrl.org/the-standard/what/how-the-xbrl-standard-works/
iXRBL is viewable HTML with embedded metadata so you can submit human-readable
reports which the systems can also parse: https://www.xbrl.org/the-standard/what/ixbrl/
- eg in their example https://www.xbrl.org/ixbrl-samples/gleif-annual-report-2017/gleif-annual-report-2017.html
there are HTML tags like:
<ix:nonfraction
name="gleif:SocialContributionsAndExpensesForPensionsAndCare"
contextref="c1" unitref="u1" id="f9" format="ixt:numdotdecimal" decimals="0">456,337</ix:nonfraction>
So to generate iXRBL it's just a report in HTML plus some extra
tags to annotate particular fields.
I think the idea is that companies do their accounts in their normal
software and press a button to report to the tax authorities via XRBL.
That means there's no 'preparation' of accounts necessary as the data is already captured in their software, you just inspect the final report and press send. Or they can produce their regular shareholder report with embedded iXRBL and submit that.
There's no reason why open source solutions can't exist. eg: https://www.openfiling.info/
Perhaps a way to start is to look at whatever software you use for calculating your accounts and see if there's an XRBL plugin.
According to the HMRC guide: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/xbrl-guide-for-uk-businesses/xbrl-guide-for-uk-businesses#xbrl---the-basics
"Many larger organisations produce their accounts and tax computations using a word processor or spreadsheet programme; they don’t use FAP software. They can continue to do this, if they choose, but they’ll need to insert XBRL tags and convert the documents/spreadsheets into an iXBRL file using conversion software and file as part of their Company Tax Return."
So if you do accounts in Excel there may be a way to tag fields in the spreadsheet so you can generate XRBL. I would not be surprised if somebody has done a template spreadsheet with the right tags and a flow to export
XRBL - then all you need to do is edit it with the data for your company.
Theo
There is also only one 'approved' SW that runs under Linux, and that ('stansoft') looks ... pretty hard work.
I have recently formed a small company and was hoping to use a PTA
(plain Text Accounting - https://plaintextaccounting.org/) program for
the accounts. But it looks like this is not going to work out ;-(
On 17/07/2025 16:51, Kit Jackson wrote:
I submitted the accounts to Companies House and HMRC last month throughIt's happening in many forms of tax submissions. Anyone self employed,
the Companies House web site. HMRC say that they will not allow use of
that system from next March and that all accounts have to be sent using
commercial software in XRBL format. Is anyone else in a similar
position? Is there some free or very cheap software that will do the
job?
with a turnover of £50k+ is in the same boat, it reduces, iirc, to £30k next year, bringing the vast majority of full time self employed people
into the bracket of needing software, compatible with HMRCs system, to
submit their tax forms, rather than being able to just input the figures
as what happens now.
jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> wrote:Well, reading that, I'm not a dunce with computers, but setting up an
There is also only one 'approved' SW that runs under Linux, and that
('stansoft') looks ... pretty hard work.
I have recently formed a small company and was hoping to use a PTA
(plain Text Accounting - https://plaintextaccounting.org/) program for
the accounts. But it looks like this is not going to work out ;-(
Does it need to be approved? Or can you use your own tools, just that they haven't tested them and bugs are your problem?
I know nothing about accounting but it seems somebody has made PTA software do it: http://xbrl.squarespace.com/journal/2020/5/5/plain-text-accounting.html
Perhaps a way to start is to look at whatever software you use for calculating your accounts and see if there's an XRBL plugin.
On 17/07/2025 23:12, Theo wrote:
jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> wrote:
There is also only one 'approved' SW that runs under Linux, and that
('stansoft') looks ... pretty hard work.
I have recently formed a small company and was hoping to use a PTA
(plain Text Accounting - https://plaintextaccounting.org/) program for
the accounts. But it looks like this is not going to work out ;-(
Does it need to be approved? Or can you use your own tools, just that they haven't tested them and bugs are your problem?
I know nothing about accounting but it seems somebody has made PTA software do it: http://xbrl.squarespace.com/journal/2020/5/5/plain-text-accounting.htmlWell, reading that, I'm not a dunce with computers, but setting up an
account package and doing what they say is beyond me, what the majority
of people need is a simple package where you input turnover, expenses
and other fields, and output it to the HMRC template [1]. Just like when filling in the inline tax return now. Simple. But this is HMRC, and they
dont do simple, so will now be asking most of the self employed to be
paying £200+ for new accouting software, when the current system works perfectly well. Add on the 3 monthly returns soon, and you can see its
just a cash generator, so they dont have to wait a year for the tax to
be paid, its due every 3 months.
[1] I currently input a list of expenses, income etc in a spreadsheet,
add them up, then just input those figures into the online tax return.
All simple stuff which is do-able by the vast majority of people at no expense to them.
It's happening in many forms of tax submissions. Anyone self employed,
with a turnover of £50k+ is in the same boat
My accounts are so trivially simple (one in particular
simply consists of columns of zeroes in all sections, year after year)
Chris Green wrote:
My accounts are so trivially simple (one in particular simply consists
of columns of zeroes in all sections, year after year)
Hopefully it's acceptable to manually craft an XRBL file with the
company name and number plus lots of zeroes?
On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 18:02:11 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
Kit Jackson wrote:
HMRC say that they will not allow use of that system from next March
and that all accounts have to be sent using commercial software in
XRBL format.
I'm hoping they have an alternative for dormant companies.
I'm hoping that they have an alternative for pensioners who get sucked
into tax paying because of unchanged tax thresholds. I'm almost
certain to become a suckee next year.
It's eight years since I've had to submit business tax returns of any
sort and however tiresome it might be, I can see that obtaining
specific software is just one of the (many) costs of doing business if
in fact you are doing business. But unless the revenue are going to
magically put pensioners on a PAYE-alike system it seems grossly
unfair that they/we should have to shell out extra money to comply.
Not to mention that there are still elderly people amongst the
digitally excluded.
On 17/07/2025 23:12, Theo wrote:
jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> wrote:
There is also only one 'approved' SW that runs under Linux, and that
('stansoft') looks ... pretty hard work.
I have recently formed a small company and was hoping to use a PTA
(plain Text Accounting - https://plaintextaccounting.org/) program for
the accounts. But it looks like this is not going to work out ;-(
Does it need to be approved? Or can you use your own tools, just that they haven't tested them and bugs are your problem?
I know nothing about accounting but it seems somebody has made PTA software do it: http://xbrl.squarespace.com/journal/2020/5/5/plain-text-accounting.htmlWell, reading that, I'm not a dunce with computers, but setting up an
account package and doing what they say is beyond me, what the majority
of people need is a simple package where you input turnover, expenses
and other fields, and output it to the HMRC template [1]. Just like when filling in the inline tax return now. Simple. But this is HMRC, and they
dont do simple, so will now be asking most of the self employed to be
paying £200+ for new accouting software, when the current system works perfectly well. Add on the 3 monthly returns soon, and you can see its
just a cash generator, so they dont have to wait a year for the tax to
be paid, its due every 3 months.
[1] I currently input a list of expenses, income etc in a spreadsheet,
add them up, then just input those figures into the online tax return.
All simple stuff which is do-able by the vast majority of people at no expense to them.
I've seen no signs XRBL will apply to personal taxes, just company
ones.
Theo wrote:
I've seen no signs XRBL will apply to personal taxes, just company
ones.
My self-assessment return includes self-employment, and in some previous years has also included employment
jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> wrote:Thanks for the link, I was going to do a search but you beat me to it.
There is also only one 'approved' SW that runs under Linux, and that
('stansoft') looks ... pretty hard work.
I have recently formed a small company and was hoping to use a PTA
(plain Text Accounting - https://plaintextaccounting.org/) program for
the accounts. But it looks like this is not going to work out ;-(
Does it need to be approved? Or can you use your own tools, just that they haven't tested them and bugs are your problem?
I know nothing about accounting but it seems somebody has made PTA software do it: http://xbrl.squarespace.com/journal/2020/5/5/plain-text-accounting.html
Theo
Andy Burns wrote:
My self-assessment return includes self-employment, and in some previous
years has also included employment
But if you are self employed you aren't doing company taxes, I think?
You're just a sole trader declaring income on your personal tax return.
If you are an employee of a personal service company of which you happen to be the sole staff member and director then those are company taxes, but it's your choice to do it that way and file company accounts, rather than just be self-employed.
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Theo wrote:
I've seen no signs XRBL will apply to personal taxes, just company
ones.
My self-assessment return includes self-employment, and in some
previous years has also included employment
But if you are self employed you aren't doing company taxes, I think?
You're just a sole trader declaring income on your personal tax return.
If you are an employee of a personal service company of which you happen
to be the sole staff member and director then those are company taxes,
but it's your choice to do it that way and file company accounts, rather
than just be self-employed.
Theo
On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 18:02:11 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
Kit Jackson wrote:
HMRC say that they will not allow use of that system from next March
and that all accounts have to be sent using commercial software in
XRBL format.
I'm hoping they have an alternative for dormant companies.
I'm hoping that they have an alternative for pensioners who get sucked
into tax paying because of unchanged tax thresholds. I'm almost
certain to become a suckee next year.
It's eight years since I've had to submit business tax returns of any
sort and however tiresome it might be, I can see that obtaining
specific software is just one of the (many) costs of doing business if
in fact you are doing business. But unless the revenue are going to
magically put pensioners on a PAYE-alike system it seems grossly
unfair that they/we should have to shell out extra money to comply.
Not to mention that there are still elderly people amongst the
digitally excluded.
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Theo wrote:
I've seen no signs XRBL will apply to personal taxes, just company
ones.
My self-assessment return includes self-employment, and in some
previous years has also included employment
But if you are self employed you aren't doing company taxes, I think?
You're just a sole trader declaring income on your personal tax return.
If you are an employee of a personal service company of which you happen
to be the sole staff member and director then those are company taxes,
but it's your choice to do it that way and file company accounts, rather
than just be self-employed.
On 18 Jul 2025 15:28:15 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Theo wrote:
I've seen no signs XRBL will apply to personal taxes, just company
ones.
My self-assessment return includes self-employment, and in some
previous years has also included employment
But if you are self employed you aren't doing company taxes, I think? You're just a sole trader declaring income on your personal tax return.
If you are an employee of a personal service company of which you happen
to be the sole staff member and director then those are company taxes,
but it's your choice to do it that way and file company accounts, rather than just be self-employed.
Self-employed sole traders are also going to have to use proprietary
software to submit quarterly accounts to HMRC from next year, under the Making Tax Digital for Income Tax system.
On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 22:43:33 +0100, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 18:02:11 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>Coincidentally, less than 24hrs after I asked the question, The Daily Telegraph seems to have answered it for me: <https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/state-pensions/how-state-pension-taxed/>
wrote:
Kit Jackson wrote:
HMRC say that they will not allow use of that system from next March
and that all accounts have to be sent using commercial software in
XRBL format.
I'm hoping they have an alternative for dormant companies.
I'm hoping that they have an alternative for pensioners who get sucked
into tax paying because of unchanged tax thresholds. I'm almost
certain to become a suckee next year.
It's eight years since I've had to submit business tax returns of any
sort and however tiresome it might be, I can see that obtaining
specific software is just one of the (many) costs of doing business if
in fact you are doing business. But unless the revenue are going to
magically put pensioners on a PAYE-alike system it seems grossly
unfair that they/we should have to shell out extra money to comply.
Not to mention that there are still elderly people amongst the
digitally excluded.
Archived here - https://archive.ph/aw51z
Nick
On 19/07/2025 00:54, Nick Odell wrote:<snip>
On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 22:43:33 +0100, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 18:02:11 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>Coincidentally, less than 24hrs after I asked the question, The Daily
wrote:
Kit Jackson wrote:
HMRC say that they will not allow use of that system from next March >>>>> and that all accounts have to be sent using commercial software in
XRBL format.
I'm hoping they have an alternative for dormant companies.
I'm hoping that they have an alternative for pensioners who get sucked
into tax paying because of unchanged tax thresholds. I'm almost
certain to become a suckee next year.
It's eight years since I've had to submit business tax returns of any
sort and however tiresome it might be, I can see that obtaining
specific software is just one of the (many) costs of doing business if
in fact you are doing business. But unless the revenue are going to
magically put pensioners on a PAYE-alike system it seems grossly
unfair that they/we should have to shell out extra money to comply.
Not to mention that there are still elderly people amongst the
digitally excluded.
Telegraph seems to have answered it for me:
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/state-pensions/how-state-pension-taxed/>
Archived here - https://archive.ph/aw51z
Nick
Gosh, that is a poorly-written article.
On 17/07/2025 16:51, Kit Jackson wrote:
HMRC accounts
I own a leasehold flat in Wales which is let out. It is one of 4
flats in
the block. I am also a part owner of the freehold and a director and
shareholder of the freeholding and managing company. The company's only
income is from the service charges and ground rent for the flats. The
company's expenditure is for insurance, cleaning and maintaining the
common areas and any repairs to the building. The company has never made >> a profit.
I submitted the accounts to Companies House and HMRC last month through
the Companies House web site. HMRC say that they will not allow use of
that system from next March and that all accounts have to be sent using
commercial software in XRBL format. Is anyone else in a similar
position? Is there some free or very cheap software that will do the
job?
Thanks.
There has been a similar situation for VAT for some time. In that
case there is free software around that can read specific cells
from a spreadsheet and send them to HMRC in the approved way.
There may well be something similar for company accounts. It may
also be that low-cost software can be bought to do the job. Have
a look at Taxcalc to see whether they offer anything suitable.
Oh come on now, it is the Telegraph after all. Nobody who can actuallyThat is simply not true.
write works there any more.
On Sat, 19 Jul 2025 11:52:18 +0100, Peter Able <stuck@home.com> wrote:
On 19/07/2025 00:54, Nick Odell wrote:<snip>
On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 22:43:33 +0100, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 18:02:11 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>Coincidentally, less than 24hrs after I asked the question, The Daily
wrote:
Kit Jackson wrote:
HMRC say that they will not allow use of that system from next March >>>>>> and that all accounts have to be sent using commercial software in >>>>>> XRBL format.
I'm hoping they have an alternative for dormant companies.
I'm hoping that they have an alternative for pensioners who get sucked >>>> into tax paying because of unchanged tax thresholds. I'm almost
certain to become a suckee next year.
It's eight years since I've had to submit business tax returns of any
sort and however tiresome it might be, I can see that obtaining
specific software is just one of the (many) costs of doing business if >>>> in fact you are doing business. But unless the revenue are going to
magically put pensioners on a PAYE-alike system it seems grossly
unfair that they/we should have to shell out extra money to comply.
Not to mention that there are still elderly people amongst the
digitally excluded.
Telegraph seems to have answered it for me:
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/state-pensions/how-state-pension-taxed/>
Archived here - https://archive.ph/aw51z
Nick
Gosh, that is a poorly-written article.
Oh come on now, it is the Telegraph after all. Nobody who can actually
write works there any more. I suppose a bit like someone who claims to
read Playboy magazine for the editorials, I will say that I only read
the Telegraph because there are sometimes news stories that other
papers don't cover at all or don't cover well but secretly I'm
addicted to the car-crash journalism.
Nick
Also sole traderness is kind of fuzzy. If I do some odd jobs and get paid for them, is that self employed income or a sole trader? It seems the threshold will be £50k falling to £20k by 2028, so I suppose doers of odd jobs won't be covered - for now anyway.
On 19/07/2025 11:25, Theo wrote:
Also sole traderness is kind of fuzzy. If I do some odd jobs and get paid for them, is that self employed income or a sole trader? It seems the threshold will be £50k falling to £20k by 2028, so I suppose doers of odd jobs won't be covered - for now anyway.
I agree. Since I retired almost 2 years ago, I've been working on a
'Sole Trader' basis doing odd jobs. The 50k threshold won't bother me,
but the 20k one possibly might (though by 2028 I think Mrs C will have
had enough of me working !)
If it's going to be a low as 20k, it's getting into the same ball park
(for some !) of savings interest, so will that need 'software' too ?
Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:Apropos of nothing, Russian tax authorities can now drain their citizens
On 19/07/2025 11:25, Theo wrote:
Also sole traderness is kind of fuzzy. If I do some odd jobs and get paid >>> for them, is that self employed income or a sole trader? It seems the
threshold will be £50k falling to £20k by 2028, so I suppose doers of odd >>> jobs won't be covered - for now anyway.
I agree. Since I retired almost 2 years ago, I've been working on a
'Sole Trader' basis doing odd jobs. The 50k threshold won't bother me,
but the 20k one possibly might (though by 2028 I think Mrs C will have
had enough of me working !)
If it's going to be a low as 20k, it's getting into the same ball park
(for some !) of savings interest, so will that need 'software' too ?
Banks already report savings interest directly to HMRC, so I don't think it needs anything on the customer end.
For the sole trader I suppose it's another reason to use one of those platforms that take care of quotes, invoices, payments etc like Xero or Tradify. For which they'll take their sweet monthly fee.
Theo
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