On Thu, 5 Dec 2024 11:57:56 +0000, BrritSki <rtilbury@gmail.com> wrote:

I recently received a PCN for parking in a restricted area outside a school.

I appealed on the basis that I believed that I was within the school
boundary when I stopped and so I didn't think that the road markings
were applicable.

Their reply was that the school have agreed to the markings on their
land and also to restrictions, so I asked "but does that give you the
legal right to do so ?"

Their simple reply was "Yes it does.". Is there any legal justification
for that claim ? Could any private land owner grant that approval and
would it then be legally enforceable ?

Yes, yes, and yes.

Under the Local Authority Parking Enforcement (LAPE) scheme - which covers pretty much the whole of the country, now - on-street and council-operated off-street parking are enforced under the same laws and using the same
powers and, usually, by the same enforcement officers. So, effectively, the school have handed over responsibility for managing parking on their
premises (or, at least, part of their premises) to the local authority. Legally, this is no different to the council leasing a plot of land and operating it as a council-run car park. And they can therefore enforce it accordingly.

The only caveat to your final question is that the council won't, generally,
be interested in taking over the parking management of private land unless there's something in it for them (eg, the opportunity to install P&D
machines and earn revenue from it), so a private land owner can't
unilaterally dump enforcement responsibility on the council. But schools
tend to be the exception, they generate a lot of parking issues and councils are often receptive to being asked to take over enforcement of parking on school-owned land.

Mark

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On 05/12/2024 18:01, Mark Goodge wrote:

On Thu, 5 Dec 2024 11:57:56 +0000, BrritSki <rtilbury@gmail.com> wrote:

I recently received a PCN for parking in a restricted area outside a school. >>
I appealed on the basis that I believed that I was within the school
boundary when I stopped and so I didn't think that the road markings
were applicable.

Their reply was that the school have agreed to the markings on their
land and also to restrictions, so I asked "but does that give you the
legal right to do so ?"

Their simple reply was "Yes it does.". Is there any legal justification
for that claim ? Could any private land owner grant that approval and
would it then be legally enforceable ?

Yes, yes, and yes.

Under the Local Authority Parking Enforcement (LAPE) scheme - which covers pretty much the whole of the country, now - on-street and council-operated off-street parking are enforced under the same laws and using the same
powers and, usually, by the same enforcement officers. So, effectively, the school have handed over responsibility for managing parking on their
premises (or, at least, part of their premises) to the local authority. Legally, this is no different to the council leasing a plot of land and operating it as a council-run car park. And they can therefore enforce it accordingly.

The only caveat to your final question is that the council won't, generally, be interested in taking over the parking management of private land unless there's something in it for them (eg, the opportunity to install P&D
machines and earn revenue from it), so a private land owner can't unilaterally dump enforcement responsibility on the council. But schools
tend to be the exception, they generate a lot of parking issues and councils are often receptive to being asked to take over enforcement of parking on school-owned land.

Mark

The only possible get out that I can see is if the parking was not on
the highway but rather on private (council) property then terms and
conditions would need to be displayed, as in council car parks, 'normal'
road markings and TROs would not apply.

Jeff

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On 06/12/2024 09:45, Jeff wrote:

The only possible get out that I can see is if the parking was not on
the highway but rather on private (council) property then terms and conditions would need to be displayed, as in council car parks, 'normal'
road markings and TROs would not apply.

Are you sure? I thought on a road "accessible to the public" that they
had full control. Certainly, back in 2012, I know that a private
cul-de-sac in Windsor suddenly needed council permits to park in. And it
was, it seems, legal. (Curiously, they were introduced to control
Olympic parking. But they remained long after......)


--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England

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On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 09:45:33 +0000, Jeff <jeff@ukra.com> wrote:

The only possible get out that I can see is if the parking was not on
the highway but rather on private (council) property then terms and >conditions would need to be displayed, as in council car parks, 'normal'
road markings and TROs would not apply.

You'd need a sign and Ts&Cs if it's actually being used as a car park, yes.
But if the intention is simply to prevent parking (eg, on an access road),
then that can be indicated simply by the use of double yellow lines. There's
no legal requirement[1] for there to be yellow plates giving details of the restriction if it's applicable 24/7/365 - you only need information plates
if the restriction is time limited (eg, no parking between 8am and 6pm, or
only on working days).

[1] There used to be, but this was changed some years ago.

Mark

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