"How do I find my reserved parking space?
When booking online you are not allocated a specific parking space, unfortunately we cannot guarantee any parking spaces at any of our
locations. On arrival, you select any available parking space that is not marked as reserved or for blue badge holders (unless, of course, you are a blue badge holder). Please note: We cannot refund any sessions purchased where a parking space is not available."
https://prebook.apcoa.co.uk/faq
How is this term enforceable? You pay in advance for parking. This does
not guarantee you a space. The car park is full, something you couldn't
know at the time of booking. They do not give refunds.
How can they say they're going to take your money despite providing you with no service? Does this count as an 'unfair' term?
https://www.cimphony.ai/insights/what-does-no-guarantee-disclaimer-mean-in-legal-terms
Apologies no time to reformat
"Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message news:hSD*-uF6z@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
"How do I find my reserved parking space?
When booking online you are not allocated a specific parking space,
unfortunately we cannot guarantee any parking spaces at any of our
locations. On arrival, you select any available parking space that is
not marked as reserved or for blue badge holders (unless, of course,
you are a blue badge holder). Please note: We cannot refund any
sessions purchased where a parking space is not available."
https://prebook.apcoa.co.uk/faq
How is this term enforceable? You pay in advance for parking. This
does not guarantee you a space. The car park is full, something you
couldn't know at the time of booking. They do not give refunds.
How can they say they're going to take your money despite providing you
with no service? Does this count as an 'unfair' term?
Quote:
A no-guarantee disclaimer is a statement that is included in a contract
or agreement to inform the parties involved that the seller or provider
is not making any guarantees or warranties about the product or *service
being sold*. This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where
the seller or provider is not able to make specific promises about the
quality, *performance, or results of the product or service.*
[ in this instance presumably actually providing a parking space]
In legal terms, a no-guarantee disclaimer is a type of contractualin-legal-terms
provision that is designed to limit the liability of the seller or
provider
in the event that the product or service does not meet the expectations
of the buyer. This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where
the seller or provider is not able to make specific promises about
the quality, performance, or results of the product or service.
* In order to be enforceable, a no-guarantee disclaimer must be clear
and conspicuous.*
:unquote
https://www.cimphony.ai/insights/what-does-no-guarantee-disclaimer-mean-
Apologies no time to reformat
bb
On Sun, 09 Feb 2025 11:11:45 +0000, billy bookcase wrote:
"Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in messagein-legal-terms
news:hSD*-uF6z@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
"How do I find my reserved parking space?
When booking online you are not allocated a specific parking space,
unfortunately we cannot guarantee any parking spaces at any of our
locations. On arrival, you select any available parking space that is
not marked as reserved or for blue badge holders (unless, of course,
you are a blue badge holder). Please note: We cannot refund any
sessions purchased where a parking space is not available."
https://prebook.apcoa.co.uk/faq
How is this term enforceable? You pay in advance for parking. This
does not guarantee you a space. The car park is full, something you
couldn't know at the time of booking. They do not give refunds.
How can they say they're going to take your money despite providing you
with no service? Does this count as an 'unfair' term?
Quote:
A no-guarantee disclaimer is a statement that is included in a contract
or agreement to inform the parties involved that the seller or provider
is not making any guarantees or warranties about the product or *service
being sold*. This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where
the seller or provider is not able to make specific promises about the
quality, *performance, or results of the product or service.*
[ in this instance presumably actually providing a parking space]
In legal terms, a no-guarantee disclaimer is a type of contractual
provision that is designed to limit the liability of the seller or
provider
in the event that the product or service does not meet the expectations
of the buyer. This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where
the seller or provider is not able to make specific promises about
the quality, performance, or results of the product or service.
* In order to be enforceable, a no-guarantee disclaimer must be clear
and conspicuous.*
:unquote
https://www.cimphony.ai/insights/what-does-no-guarantee-disclaimer-mean-
Apologies no time to reformat
bb
With all due respect that doesn't really answer the OP.
How can a company take money for a service. Not provide that service. And then say "no refunds" ?
Just "having a contract" doesn't make it lawful.
Could it be considered an unfair contract were a customer to sue for non delivery of the parking space ?
I suspect those terms are an attempt to evade the consequential liability
of someone booking a space, getting there, finding no space, and having
to pay £££ for a distress parking space.
"Jethro_uk" <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote in message news:voa30d$1sc4r$78@dont-email.me...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2025 11:11:45 +0000, billy bookcase wrote:
"Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in messagein-legal-terms
news:hSD*-uF6z@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
"How do I find my reserved parking space?
When booking online you are not allocated a specific parking space,
unfortunately we cannot guarantee any parking spaces at any of our
locations. On arrival, you select any available parking space that is >>>> not marked as reserved or for blue badge holders (unless, of course,
you are a blue badge holder). Please note: We cannot refund any
sessions purchased where a parking space is not available."
https://prebook.apcoa.co.uk/faq
How is this term enforceable? You pay in advance for parking. This
does not guarantee you a space. The car park is full, something you
couldn't know at the time of booking. They do not give refunds.
How can they say they're going to take your money despite providing you >>>> with no service? Does this count as an 'unfair' term?
Quote:
A no-guarantee disclaimer is a statement that is included in a contract
or agreement to inform the parties involved that the seller or provider
is not making any guarantees or warranties about the product or *service >>>
being sold*. This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where
the seller or provider is not able to make specific promises about the
quality, *performance, or results of the product or service.*
[ in this instance presumably actually providing a parking space]
In legal terms, a no-guarantee disclaimer is a type of contractual
provision that is designed to limit the liability of the seller or
provider
in the event that the product or service does not meet the expectations
of the buyer. This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where
the seller or provider is not able to make specific promises about
the quality, performance, or results of the product or service.
* In order to be enforceable, a no-guarantee disclaimer must be clear
and conspicuous.*
:unquote
https://www.cimphony.ai/insights/what-does-no-guarantee-disclaimer-mean-
Apologies no time to reformat
bb
With all due respect that doesn't really answer the OP.
How can a company take money for a service. Not provide that service. And
then say "no refunds" ?
quote:
" This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where the seller or provider
is not able to make specific promises about the quality, performance,"
:unquote
"Performance" in this instance being the provision of a parking space
Nobody is under any obligation to use this service.
Presumably they can simply pay on the day.
So it's for those people to balance *the presumed benefits of pre-booking*
as against the possible costs of their not finding a space and not
being re-funded.
* Otherwise what is to stop *everyone from prebooking* over-subscribed car parks
and the car park being put to the expense of having to issue hundreds or refunds
every day ?
bb
snip
On Sun, 09 Feb 2025 11:11:45 +0000, billy bookcase wrote:
"Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in messagein-legal-terms
news:hSD*-uF6z@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
"How do I find my reserved parking space?
When booking online you are not allocated a specific parking space,
unfortunately we cannot guarantee any parking spaces at any of our
locations. On arrival, you select any available parking space that is
not marked as reserved or for blue badge holders (unless, of course,
you are a blue badge holder). Please note: We cannot refund any
sessions purchased where a parking space is not available."
https://prebook.apcoa.co.uk/faq
How is this term enforceable? You pay in advance for parking. This
does not guarantee you a space. The car park is full, something you
couldn't know at the time of booking. They do not give refunds.
How can they say they're going to take your money despite providing you
with no service? Does this count as an 'unfair' term?
Quote:
A no-guarantee disclaimer is a statement that is included in a contract
or agreement to inform the parties involved that the seller or provider
is not making any guarantees or warranties about the product or *service
being sold*. This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where
the seller or provider is not able to make specific promises about the
quality, *performance, or results of the product or service.*
[ in this instance presumably actually providing a parking space]
In legal terms, a no-guarantee disclaimer is a type of contractual
provision that is designed to limit the liability of the seller or
provider
in the event that the product or service does not meet the expectations
of the buyer. This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where
the seller or provider is not able to make specific promises about
the quality, performance, or results of the product or service.
* In order to be enforceable, a no-guarantee disclaimer must be clear
and conspicuous.*
:unquote
https://www.cimphony.ai/insights/what-does-no-guarantee-disclaimer-mean-
Apologies no time to reformat
bb
With all due respect that doesn't really answer the OP.
How can a company take money for a service. Not provide that service. And then say "no refunds" ?
"Jethro_uk" <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote in message news:voa30d$1sc4r$78@dont-email.me...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2025 11:11:45 +0000, billy bookcase wrote:
"Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in messagein-legal-terms
news:hSD*-uF6z@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
"How do I find my reserved parking space?
When booking online you are not allocated a specific parking space,
unfortunately we cannot guarantee any parking spaces at any of our
locations. On arrival, you select any available parking space that is >>>> not marked as reserved or for blue badge holders (unless, of course,
you are a blue badge holder). Please note: We cannot refund any
sessions purchased where a parking space is not available."
https://prebook.apcoa.co.uk/faq
How is this term enforceable? You pay in advance for parking. This
does not guarantee you a space. The car park is full, something you
couldn't know at the time of booking. They do not give refunds.
How can they say they're going to take your money despite providing you >>>> with no service? Does this count as an 'unfair' term?
Quote:
A no-guarantee disclaimer is a statement that is included in a contract
or agreement to inform the parties involved that the seller or provider
is not making any guarantees or warranties about the product or *service >>>
being sold*. This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where
the seller or provider is not able to make specific promises about the
quality, *performance, or results of the product or service.*
[ in this instance presumably actually providing a parking space]
In legal terms, a no-guarantee disclaimer is a type of contractual
provision that is designed to limit the liability of the seller or
provider
in the event that the product or service does not meet the expectations
of the buyer. This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where
the seller or provider is not able to make specific promises about
the quality, performance, or results of the product or service.
* In order to be enforceable, a no-guarantee disclaimer must be clear
and conspicuous.*
:unquote
https://www.cimphony.ai/insights/what-does-no-guarantee-disclaimer-mean-
Apologies no time to reformat
bb
With all due respect that doesn't really answer the OP.
How can a company take money for a service. Not provide that service. And
then say "no refunds" ?
quote:
" This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where the seller or provider
is not able to make specific promises about the quality, performance,"
:unquote
"Performance" in this instance being the provision of a parking space
Nobody is under any obligation to use this service.
Presumably they can simply pay on the day.
So it's for those people to balance *the presumed benefits of pre-booking*
as against the possible costs of their not finding a space and not
being re-funded.
* Otherwise what is to stop *everyone from prebooking* over-subscribed car parks
and the car park being put to the expense of having to issue hundreds or refunds
every day ?
On 09/02/2025 in message <voa2hq$k76p$1@dont-email.me> billy bookcase wrote:
https://www.cimphony.ai/insights/what-does-no-guarantee-disclaimer-mean-in-legal-terms
Apologies no time to reformat
Looks like an American company? If so may be quoting American law?
On Sun, 09 Feb 2025 11:11:45 +0000, billy bookcase wrote:
"Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in messagein-legal-terms
news:hSD*-uF6z@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
"How do I find my reserved parking space?
When booking online you are not allocated a specific parking space,
unfortunately we cannot guarantee any parking spaces at any of our
locations. On arrival, you select any available parking space that is
not marked as reserved or for blue badge holders (unless, of course,
you are a blue badge holder). Please note: We cannot refund any
sessions purchased where a parking space is not available."
https://prebook.apcoa.co.uk/faq
How is this term enforceable? You pay in advance for parking. This
does not guarantee you a space. The car park is full, something you
couldn't know at the time of booking. They do not give refunds.
How can they say they're going to take your money despite providing you
with no service? Does this count as an 'unfair' term?
Quote:
A no-guarantee disclaimer is a statement that is included in a
contract or agreement to inform the parties involved that the seller
or provider is not making any guarantees or warranties about the
product or *service being sold*. This type of disclaimer is often
used in situations where the seller or provider is not able to make
specific promises about the quality, *performance, or results of the
product or service.*
[ in this instance presumably actually providing a parking space]
In legal terms, a no-guarantee disclaimer is a type of
contractual provision that is designed to limit the liability of the
seller or provider in the event that the product or service does not
meet the expectations of the buyer. This type of disclaimer is often
used in situations where the seller or provider is not able to make
specific promises about the quality, performance, or results of the
product or service.
* In order to be enforceable, a no-guarantee disclaimer must be clear
and conspicuous.*
:unquote
https://www.cimphony.ai/insights/what-does-no-guarantee-disclaimer-mean-
Apologies no time to reformat
bb
With all due respect that doesn't really answer the OP.
How can a company take money for a service. Not provide that service. And then say "no refunds" ?
Just "having a contract" doesn't make it lawful.
Could it be considered an unfair contract were a customer to sue for non delivery of the parking space ?
On 09/02/2025 in message <voa2hq$k76p$1@dont-email.me> billy bookcase wrote:
https://www.cimphony.ai/insights/what-does-no-guarantee-disclaimer-mean-in-legal-terms
Apologies no time to reformat
Looks like an American company? If so may be quoting American law?
I think very much so. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 Schedule 2 provides
a non-exhaustive list of things which may be considered unreasonable,
and "we might not provide a parking space at all" looks like it would
come under paragraph 2 [...].
Writing a single contract term which matches 8 different types of unfair contract simultaneously is quite impressive really.
"Jethro_uk" <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote in message news:voa30d$1sc4r$78@dont-email.me...
With all due respect that doesn't really answer the OP.
How can a company take money for a service. Not provide that service.
And then say "no refunds" ?
quote:
" This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where the seller
or provider is not able to make specific promises about the quality, performance,"
:unquote
"Performance" in this instance being the provision of a parking space
Nobody is under any obligation to use this service.
Presumably they can simply pay on the day.
So it's for those people to balance *the presumed benefits of pre-booking*
as against the possible costs of their not finding a space and not
being re-funded.
* Otherwise what is to stop *everyone from prebooking* over-subscribed
car parks and the car park being put to the expense of having to issue hundreds or refunds every day ?
On 09/02/2025 18:24, Jon Ribbens wrote:
[unfair parking contract:]
I think very much so. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 Schedule 2 provides
a non-exhaustive list of things which may be considered unreasonable,
and "we might not provide a parking space at all" looks like it would
come under paragraph 2 [...].
Writing a single contract term which matches 8 different types of unfair
contract simultaneously is quite impressive really.
Presumably, different laws apply to lotteries? Otherwise, "I've
paid for a ticket but didn't win a prize, I demand my money back!".
That being so, perhaps the parking company should instead offer
motorists the chance to be entered into a draw, the 150 [or whatever]
lucky winners to get a guaranteed parking space. I expect there's a
snag.
On 2025-02-09, billy bookcase <billy@onon.com> wrote:
* Otherwise what is to stop *everyone from prebooking* over-subscribed
car parks and the car park being put to the expense of having to issue hundreds or refunds every day ?
What is to stop that? The car park can stop that by simply not selling
spaces that don't exist. Why is that not obvious?
On 2025-02-09, billy bookcase <billy@onon.com> wrote:
"Jethro_uk" <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote in message
news:voa30d$1sc4r$78@dont-email.me...
With all due respect that doesn't really answer the OP.
How can a company take money for a service. Not provide that service.
And then say "no refunds" ?
quote:
" This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where the seller
or provider is not able to make specific promises about the quality,
performance,"
:unquote
"Performance" in this instance being the provision of a parking space
Nobody is under any obligation to use this service.
Ah, the eternal cry of the "free market" libertarian. "They didn't
have to agree to the 84-page contract without reading it, they could
simply spend half their life constantly reading contracts and they would
have noticed that on page 76 section 18 subsection 54 paragraph 9 it
says quite clearly that they give us the right to shoot them dead if we
feel like it."
Presumably they can simply pay on the day.
So it's for those people to balance *the presumed benefits of pre-booking* >> as against the possible costs of their not finding a space and not
being re-funded.
* Otherwise what is to stop *everyone from prebooking* over-subscribed
car parks and the car park being put to the expense of having to issue
hundreds or refunds every day ?
What is to stop that? The car park can stop that by simply not selling
spaces that don't exist. Why is that not obvious?
On 9 Feb 2025 at 13:44:33 GMT, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@onon.com> wrote:
"Jethro_uk" <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote in message
news:voa30d$1sc4r$78@dont-email.me...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2025 11:11:45 +0000, billy bookcase wrote:
"Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:hSD*-uF6z@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
"How do I find my reserved parking space?
When booking online you are not allocated a specific parking space,
unfortunately we cannot guarantee any parking spaces at any of our
locations. On arrival, you select any available parking space that is >>>>> not marked as reserved or for blue badge holders (unless, of course, >>>>> you are a blue badge holder). Please note: We cannot refund any
sessions purchased where a parking space is not available."
https://prebook.apcoa.co.uk/faq
How is this term enforceable? You pay in advance for parking. This >>>>> does not guarantee you a space. The car park is full, something you >>>>> couldn't know at the time of booking. They do not give refunds.
How can they say they're going to take your money despite providing you >>>>> with no service? Does this count as an 'unfair' term?
Quote:
A no-guarantee disclaimer is a statement that is included in a contract >>>>
or agreement to inform the parties involved that the seller or provider >>>>
is not making any guarantees or warranties about the product or *service >>>>
being sold*. This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where >>>>
the seller or provider is not able to make specific promises about the >>>>
quality, *performance, or results of the product or service.*
[ in this instance presumably actually providing a parking space]
In legal terms, a no-guarantee disclaimer is a type of contractual
provision that is designed to limit the liability of the seller or
provider
in the event that the product or service does not meet the expectations >>>>
of the buyer. This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where >>>>
the seller or provider is not able to make specific promises about
the quality, performance, or results of the product or service.
* In order to be enforceable, a no-guarantee disclaimer must be clear
and conspicuous.*
:unquote
https://www.cimphony.ai/insights/what-does-no-guarantee-disclaimer-mean- >>> in-legal-terms
Apologies no time to reformat
bb
With all due respect that doesn't really answer the OP.
How can a company take money for a service. Not provide that service. And >>> then say "no refunds" ?
quote:
" This type of disclaimer is often used in situations where the seller or
provider
is not able to make specific promises about the quality, performance,"
:unquote
"Performance" in this instance being the provision of a parking space
Nobody is under any obligation to use this service.
Presumably they can simply pay on the day.
So it's for those people to balance *the presumed benefits of pre-booking* >> as against the possible costs of their not finding a space and not
being re-funded.
* Otherwise what is to stop *everyone from prebooking* over-subscribed car >> parks
and the car park being put to the expense of having to issue hundreds or
refunds
every day ?
bb
snip
Presumably a system by the carpark owners to only allow pre-booking of the number of spaces they are likely to have? While they may not always be able to
provide a space in an individual case it would be fraud to happily take a large number of bookings they *knew* they would not be able to provide space for; certainly fraud if they systematically refused to refund the unsuccessful
bookings that then outnumbered the successful ones.
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 18:43:36 -0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens wrote...
On 2025-02-09, billy bookcase <billy@onon.com> wrote:
* Otherwise what is to stop *everyone from prebooking* over-subscribed
car parks and the car park being put to the expense of having to issue
hundreds or refunds every day ?
What is to stop that? The car park can stop that by simply not selling
spaces that don't exist. Why is that not obvious?
They would (should?) have to deny parking to people who just drive up
on the day, if that would mean turning away someone who had pre-booked.
If the car park is busy, that would just transfer the problem to
drive-up vehicles, but it would be more equitable.
There might be an issue if someone pre-books but then changes their
plans and wants a refund. But that ought to be addressable by
specifying how far in advance refund requests must be made.
"Jon Ribbens" <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
billy bookcase <billy@onon.com> wrote:
So it's for those people to balance *the presumed benefits of pre-booking* >>> as against the possible costs of their not finding a space and not
being re-funded.
* Otherwise what is to stop *everyone from prebooking* over-subscribed
car parks and the car park being put to the expense of having to issue
hundreds or refunds every day ?
What is to stop that? The car park can stop that by simply not selling
spaces that don't exist. Why is that not obvious?
Because if the car park is oversubscribed then that means that the price being charged is too low. So that basically, people who pre book spaces
are going to have to accept the fact they are in competition with others including mainly drive-ins for scarce spaces.
On 09/02/2025 08:31 PM, billy bookcase wrote:
Because if the car park is oversubscribed then that means that the price being charged is too low. So that basically, people who pre book spaces
are going to have to accept the fact they are in competition with others including mainly drive-ins for scarce spaces.
That simply means that there is (or would be) no point in booking ahead.
On 09/02/2025 08:31 PM, billy bookcase wrote:
"Jon Ribbens" <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
billy bookcase <billy@onon.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
[Ref: pre-booking car-parking:]
So it's for those people to balance *the presumed benefits of pre-booking* >>>> as against the possible costs of their not finding a space and not
being re-funded.
* Otherwise what is to stop *everyone from prebooking* over-subscribed >>>> car parks and the car park being put to the expense of having to issue >>>> hundreds or refunds every day ?
What is to stop that? The car park can stop that by simply not selling
spaces that don't exist. Why is that not obvious?
Because if the car park is oversubscribed then that means that the price
being charged is too low. So that basically, people who pre book spaces
are going to have to accept the fact they are in competition with others
including mainly drive-ins for scarce spaces.
That simply means that there is (or would be) no point in booking ahead
"JNugent" <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote in message news:m0suidF9looU1@mid.individual.net...
On 09/02/2025 08:31 PM, billy bookcase wrote:
"Jon Ribbens" <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
billy bookcase <billy@onon.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
[Ref: pre-booking car-parking:]
So it's for those people to balance *the presumed benefits of pre-booking*
as against the possible costs of their not finding a space and not
being re-funded.
* Otherwise what is to stop *everyone from prebooking* over-subscribed >>>>> car parks and the car park being put to the expense of having to issue >>>>> hundreds or refunds every day ?
What is to stop that? The car park can stop that by simply not selling >>>> spaces that don't exist. Why is that not obvious?
Because if the car park is oversubscribed then that means that the price >>> being charged is too low. So that basically, people who pre book spaces
are going to have to accept the fact they are in competition with others >>> including mainly drive-ins for scarce spaces.
That simply means that there is (or would be) no point in booking ahead
Well yes. That's what I thought as well
However.
A slight change of tack.
Having given the matter a bit more thought, about the situation in
general at least.
One things car parks are famous for, is imposing impenetrable
conditions on people.
And then penalising them to the tune of £120,£90,£80 etc. reduced to £60.$45, or £40 if paid within 14 days, if they don't follow those
conditions to the letter
Some people simply don't have the patience or acuity to negotiate
all this, every time they visit a new car park.
And maybe they have already been penalised on more than one
occasion.
So that "the peace of mind they obtain" in addition to the actual
penalties they would avoid when actually being able to find a
space, is *far greater* than any parking fee they may have paid
in advance, on those rare occasions when they couldn't find
a space.
This obviously wouldn't apply to oversubscribed car parks.
But then I don't think this particular business model was designed to
cater for those situations in any case.
What is to stop that? The car park can stop that by simply not selling
spaces that don't exist. Why is that not obvious?
On 09/02/2025 18:43, Jon Ribbens wrote:
What is to stop that? The car park can stop that by simply not selling
spaces that don't exist. Why is that not obvious?
There must sometimes be a practical issue with people not vacating on
time, so spaces aren't available when expected.
On 2025-02-10, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
On 09/02/2025 18:43, Jon Ribbens wrote:
What is to stop that? The car park can stop that by simply not selling
spaces that don't exist. Why is that not obvious?
There must sometimes be a practical issue with people not vacating on
time, so spaces aren't available when expected.
In which case those people would be charged extra fees, which would
very easily provide the money to refund the people who pre-booked.
If the car park was limiting its liability to the fees paid, then
maybe fair enough, but limiting it to zero is just ridiculous, and unenforceable.
On 10/02/2025 23:34, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2025-02-10, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
On 09/02/2025 18:43, Jon Ribbens wrote:
What is to stop that? The car park can stop that by simply not selling >>>> spaces that don't exist. Why is that not obvious?
There must sometimes be a practical issue with people not vacating on
time, so spaces aren't available when expected.
In which case those people would be charged extra fees, which would
very easily provide the money to refund the people who pre-booked.
If the car park was limiting its liability to the fees paid, then
maybe fair enough, but limiting it to zero is just ridiculous, and
unenforceable.
I was responding purely to " not selling spaces that don't exist", and pointing out that that is not very practical.
There seems to be rare almost-unanimity that it's unfair to refuse a refund if no spaces are available! I wonder whether, in practice, APCOA even try to enforce that contract term?
On 2025-02-10, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
On 09/02/2025 18:43, Jon Ribbens wrote:
What is to stop that? The car park can stop that by simply not selling
spaces that don't exist. Why is that not obvious?
There must sometimes be a practical issue with people not vacating on
time, so spaces aren't available when expected.
In which case those people would be charged extra fees, which would
very easily provide the money to refund the people who pre-booked.
If the car park was limiting its liability to the fees paid, then
maybe fair enough, but limiting it to zero is just ridiculous, and unenforceable.
On 11/02/2025 10:42, GB wrote:
On 10/02/2025 23:34, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2025-02-10, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
On 09/02/2025 18:43, Jon Ribbens wrote:
What is to stop that? The car park can stop that by simply not selling >>>>> spaces that don't exist. Why is that not obvious?
There must sometimes be a practical issue with people not vacating on
time, so spaces aren't available when expected.
In which case those people would be charged extra fees, which would
very easily provide the money to refund the people who pre-booked.
If the car park was limiting its liability to the fees paid, then
maybe fair enough, but limiting it to zero is just ridiculous, and
unenforceable.
I was responding purely to " not selling spaces that don't exist", and
pointing out that that is not very practical.
There seems to be rare almost-unanimity that it's unfair to refuse a
refund if no spaces are available! I wonder whether, in practice,
APCOA even try to enforce that contract term?
It is not actually a contract term; it is just a FAQ.
The terms are here:
https://prebook.apcoa.co.uk/termsofuse
They are a mess. Someone has pasted some privacy terms at the top of
the page outside of the main Terms & Conditions document, presumably
because someone was told to "do something" about GDPR and they decided
to half-arse it. In the main terms there is a "force majeure" clause
which is just gibberish. The whole thing looks like it wasn't written
by a lawyer, or even a competent layman, which is pretty remarkable
for a company which is apparently worth hundreds of millions.
The terms say "This booking does not guarantee the customer a parking
space" but don't say whether or not you get a refund if no space is >available. I wouldn't be surprised if they would at first say that
no refund is available, but if you were to push they would probably
give in, not least because if it went to court I am pretty certain
they would lose.
They are a mess. Someone has pasted some privacy terms at the top of the
page outside of the main Terms & Conditions document, presumably because someone was told to "do something" about GDPR and they decided to
half-arse it. In the main terms there is a "force majeure" clause which
is just gibberish. The whole thing looks like it wasn't written by a
lawyer, or even a competent layman, which is pretty remarkable for a
company which is apparently worth hundreds of millions.
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