As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t
watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as Aljazeerer),
or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am I allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel? After all, I have paid for it.
Upon opening, the said channel, the advertising is 'live', so in effect,
I've broken the law by default?
So confusing.
On 18/02/2025 20:41, Saxman wrote:
As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t
watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as Aljazeerer),
or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am I
allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel? After
all, I have paid for it.
Upon opening, the said channel, the advertising is 'live', so in effect,
I've broken the law by default?
So confusing.
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live, no matter who broadcasts or streams it.
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live, no matter who broadcasts or streams it.
On 18/02/2025 20:41, Saxman wrote:
As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t
watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as Aljazeerer),
or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am I
allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel?
After all, I have paid for it.
Upon opening, the said channel, the advertising is 'live', so in
effect, I've broken the law by default?
So confusing.
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live, no matter who broadcasts or streams it.
On 19/02/2025 08:03, Norman Wells wrote:
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live,
no matter who broadcasts or streams it.
So, if our daughter shows my wife and me a live video of our
granddaughter playing - transmitted from said daughter's phone ...?
And a TV licence is specific to premises. What if I get my daughter's
video whilst standing in the checkout queue in the supermarket?
On 19 Feb 2025 at 08:03:39 GMT, "Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
On 18/02/2025 20:41, Saxman wrote:
As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t
watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as Aljazeerer),
or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am I
allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel? After >>> all, I have paid for it.
Upon opening, the said channel, the advertising is 'live', so in effect, >>> I've broken the law by default?
So confusing.
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live, no
matter who broadcasts or streams it.
Do you know the definition of a broadcaster? Youtube do plenty of live streamed videos. Are they a broadcaster? And many firms and professional associations do live streamed "webinars" or similar, even though there main business is not publishing videos. I don't profess to know the answer myself.
On 19/02/2025 08:03, Norman Wells wrote:
On 18/02/2025 20:41, Saxman wrote:
As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t
watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as
Aljazeerer), or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am
I allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel?
After all, I have paid for it.
Upon opening, the said channel, the advertising is 'live', so in
effect, I've broken the law by default?
So confusing.
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live,
no matter who broadcasts or streams it.
Including say NASA TV (USA)?
Or live lectures from private institutions
like for example the Royal Society (UK) or Nobel Foundation (Sweden)?
https://www.nasa.gov/live/ https://www.nobelprize.org/alternative-live-video-player/
Almost all the learned societies livestream their lectures now.
Some fairly small groups do too - it grew out of Covid lockdown.
For that matter any of the live CCTV cameras in city centres and
motorways? There is a huge amount of live video content worldwide.
FTOAD I do have a TV license.
On 19/02/2025 08:03, Norman Wells wrote:
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live, no
matter who broadcasts or streams it.
So, if our daughter shows my wife and me a live video of our
granddaughter playing - transmitted from said daughter's phone ...?
And a TV licence is specific to premises. What if I get my daughter's
video whilst standing in the checkout queue in the supermarket?
On 19/02/2025 09:33, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Feb 2025 at 08:03:39 GMT, "Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
On 18/02/2025 20:41, Saxman wrote:
As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t
watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as Aljazeerer), >>>> or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am I >>>> allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel? After >>>> all, I have paid for it.
Upon opening, the said channel, the advertising is 'live', so in effect, >>>> I've broken the law by default?
So confusing.
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live, no >>> matter who broadcasts or streams it.
Do you know the definition of a broadcaster? Youtube do plenty of live
streamed videos. Are they a broadcaster? And many firms and professional
associations do live streamed "webinars" or similar, even though there main >> business is not publishing videos. I don't profess to know the answer myself.
"Do I need a TV Licence to watch YouTube?
You don’t need a TV Licence to watch videos or clips on demand on YouTube.
But you do need a TV Licence if you watch live TV on YouTube.
An example of this would be watching Sky News live. But it isn’t just
live news or sport which needs a licence – it’s any programme which is part of a TV channel, shown or transmitted for everyone to watch at the
same time."
https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/watching-live-online-and-on-mobile
As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t
watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as Aljazeerer),
or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am I >allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel? After
all, I have paid for it.
On 19 Feb 2025 at 08:03:39 GMT, "Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
On 18/02/2025 20:41, Saxman wrote:
As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t
watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as Aljazeerer),
or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am I
allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel? After >>> all, I have paid for it.
Upon opening, the said channel, the advertising is 'live', so in effect, >>> I've broken the law by default?
So confusing.
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live, no
matter who broadcasts or streams it.
Do you know the definition of a broadcaster? Youtube do plenty of live >streamed videos. Are they a broadcaster? And many firms and professional >associations do live streamed "webinars" or similar, even though there main >business is not publishing videos. I don't profess to know the answer myself.
On 19/02/2025 08:03, Norman Wells wrote:
On 18/02/2025 20:41, Saxman wrote:
As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t
watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as Aljazeerer),
or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am I
allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel?
After all, I have paid for it.
Upon opening, the said channel, the advertising is 'live', so in
effect, I've broken the law by default?
So confusing.
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live, no
matter who broadcasts or streams it.
Including say NASA TV (USA)? Or live lectures from private institutions
like for example the Royal Society (UK) or Nobel Foundation (Sweden)?
https://www.nasa.gov/live/ >https://www.nobelprize.org/alternative-live-video-player/
Almost all the learned societies livestream their lectures now.
Some fairly small groups do too - it grew out of Covid lockdown.
For that matter any of the live CCTV cameras in city centres and
motorways? There is a huge amount of live video content worldwide.
Because these are subjective, rather than objective, it's likely that edge cases will be intepreted differently by TVL, streamers and the courts. And those differences won't be fully resolved unless and until a case reaches a precedent-setting court.
On 19/02/2025 13:08, Mark Goodge wrote:
Because these are subjective, rather than objective, it's likely that edge >> cases will be intepreted differently by TVL, streamers and the courts. And >> those differences won't be fully resolved unless and until a case reaches a >> precedent-setting court.
And that won't happen, as the Golden Goose selling the TV Licence will
be gone for many,the TV Licencing Authority would not risk taking that
to Court, just in case they are ruled against.
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 10:30:33 +0000, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/02/2025 08:03, Norman Wells wrote:
On 18/02/2025 20:41, Saxman wrote:
As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t
watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as Aljazeerer), >>>> or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am I >>>> allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel?
After all, I have paid for it.
Upon opening, the said channel, the advertising is 'live', so in
effect, I've broken the law by default?
So confusing.
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live, no >>> matter who broadcasts or streams it.
Including say NASA TV (USA)? Or live lectures from private institutions
like for example the Royal Society (UK) or Nobel Foundation (Sweden)?
https://www.nasa.gov/live/
https://www.nobelprize.org/alternative-live-video-player/
NASA TV, yes, since that is a television programming service - it pretty
much says that on the tin, and it maintains a consistent schedule of programmes and live broadcasts.
Royal Society and Nobel Foundation lectures probably wouldn't be covered, because they're just ad-hoc broadcasts rather than being part of an ongoing programme schedule. But only the courts could tell you that for certain. At the moment, TVL don't consider that they come within the remit of the legislation.
Almost all the learned societies livestream their lectures now.
Some fairly small groups do too - it grew out of Covid lockdown.
TVL have said that organisations livestreaming their own meetings do not, in their opinion, come under the "television programme service" requirement of the legislation. As you say, this particularly became an issue during lockdown when a lot of events that would normally be attended in person went online. Church services were another very common one.
On 19/02/2025 13:26, Mark Goodge wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 10:30:33 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk>
wrote:
On 19/02/2025 08:03, Norman Wells wrote:
On 18/02/2025 20:41, Saxman wrote:
As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t >>>>> watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as Aljazeerer), >>>>> or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am I >>>>> allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel?
After all, I have paid for it.
Upon opening, the said channel, the advertising is 'live', so in
effect, I've broken the law by default?
So confusing.
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near
live, no
matter who broadcasts or streams it.
Including say NASA TV (USA)? Or live lectures from private institutions
like for example the Royal Society (UK) or Nobel Foundation (Sweden)?
https://www.nasa.gov/live/
https://www.nobelprize.org/alternative-live-video-player/
NASA TV, yes, since that is a television programming service - it pretty
much says that on the tin, and it maintains a consistent schedule of
programmes and live broadcasts.
Thanks for the insight Mark, but it was a trap intended for Norman.
Despite the name NASA TV isn't anything like a full broadcast schedule
of programmes. I picked "NASA TV" specifically because it is a *very* intermittent foreign based broadcast. They only have content when there
is a launch scheduled and sometimes the odd space news item.
Things have changed a bit too NASA TVÂ has evolved into this NASA+ now:
https://plus.nasa.gov
Next "live broadcast" on Feb 24 2pm and 4pm.
Not really a TV broadcast (they have abandoned satellite for internet).
Royal Society and Nobel Foundation lectures probably wouldn't be covered,
because they're just ad-hoc broadcasts rather than being part of an
ongoing
programme schedule. But only the courts could tell you that for
certain. At
the moment, TVL don't consider that they come within the remit of the
legislation.
But so is NASA TV. *Very* intermittent.
On 19/02/2025 15:19, Martin Brown wrote:
On 19/02/2025 13:26, Mark Goodge wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 10:30:33 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk>
wrote:
On 19/02/2025 08:03, Norman Wells wrote:
On 18/02/2025 20:41, Saxman wrote:
As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t >>>>>> watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as Aljazeerer), >>>>>> or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am I >>>>>> allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel?
After all, I have paid for it.
Upon opening, the said channel, the advertising is 'live', so in
effect, I've broken the law by default?
So confusing.
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near
live, no
matter who broadcasts or streams it.
Including say NASA TV (USA)? Or live lectures from private institutions >>>> like for example the Royal Society (UK) or Nobel Foundation (Sweden)?
https://www.nasa.gov/live/
https://www.nobelprize.org/alternative-live-video-player/
NASA TV, yes, since that is a television programming service - it pretty >>> much says that on the tin, and it maintains a consistent schedule of
programmes and live broadcasts.
Thanks for the insight Mark, but it was a trap intended for Norman.
Can I ask why you think that is a useful thing to do?
Despite the name NASA TV isn't anything like a full broadcast schedule
of programmes. I picked "NASA TV" specifically because it is a *very*
intermittent foreign based broadcast. They only have content when there
is a launch scheduled and sometimes the odd space news item.
Things have changed a bit too NASA TV has evolved into this NASA+ now:
https://plus.nasa.gov
Next "live broadcast" on Feb 24 2pm and 4pm.
Not really a TV broadcast (they have abandoned satellite for internet).
You are still watching an unrestricted TV channel live. All the
reputable sources including TV Licensing say you need a licence for
that. If you're maintaining you don't, do please give whatever support
you can for your position.
https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ1
Royal Society and Nobel Foundation lectures probably wouldn't be covered, >>> because they're just ad-hoc broadcasts rather than being part of an
ongoing
programme schedule. But only the courts could tell you that for
certain. At
the moment, TVL don't consider that they come within the remit of the
legislation.
But so is NASA TV. *Very* intermittent.
But that's not a criterion I've found anywhere, nor is 'ad hoc'. If you have, please say where and give a link.
I'd also like to see Mr Goodge's support for what he says is TVL's opinion.
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 17:29:00 +0000, Martin Harran
<martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
My local church, like many since Covid days, streams religious
services live on both Youtube and Facebook. If somebody watches those
on a) a PC or b) a Smart TV, do you think either of those requires a
TV licence?
For PC, I should really have said PC, phone or tablet, if that makes
any difference.
On 19 Feb 2025 at 18:36:54 GMT, "Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
On 19/02/2025 15:19, Martin Brown wrote:
On 19/02/2025 13:26, Mark Goodge wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 10:30:33 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk>
wrote:
On 19/02/2025 08:03, Norman Wells wrote:
On 18/02/2025 20:41, Saxman wrote:
As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t >>>>>>> watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as Aljazeerer), >>>>>>> or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am I >>>>>>> allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel? >>>>>>> After all, I have paid for it.
Upon opening, the said channel, the advertising is 'live', so in >>>>>>> effect, I've broken the law by default?
So confusing.
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near
live, no
matter who broadcasts or streams it.
Including say NASA TV (USA)? Or live lectures from private institutions >>>>> like for example the Royal Society (UK) or Nobel Foundation (Sweden)? >>>>>
https://www.nasa.gov/live/
https://www.nobelprize.org/alternative-live-video-player/
NASA TV, yes, since that is a television programming service - it pretty >>>> much says that on the tin, and it maintains a consistent schedule of
programmes and live broadcasts.
Thanks for the insight Mark, but it was a trap intended for Norman.
Can I ask why you think that is a useful thing to do?
Despite the name NASA TV isn't anything like a full broadcast schedule
of programmes. I picked "NASA TV" specifically because it is a *very*
intermittent foreign based broadcast. They only have content when there
is a launch scheduled and sometimes the odd space news item.
Things have changed a bit too NASA TV has evolved into this NASA+ now:
https://plus.nasa.gov
Next "live broadcast" on Feb 24 2pm and 4pm.
Not really a TV broadcast (they have abandoned satellite for internet).
You are still watching an unrestricted TV channel live. All the
reputable sources including TV Licensing say you need a licence for
that. If you're maintaining you don't, do please give whatever support
you can for your position.
https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ1
Royal Society and Nobel Foundation lectures probably wouldn't be covered, >>>> because they're just ad-hoc broadcasts rather than being part of an
ongoing
programme schedule. But only the courts could tell you that for
certain. At
the moment, TVL don't consider that they come within the remit of the
legislation.
But so is NASA TV. *Very* intermittent.
But that's not a criterion I've found anywhere, nor is 'ad hoc'. If you
have, please say where and give a link.
I'd also like to see Mr Goodge's support for what he says is TVL's opinion.
Why do you suppose he ought to support the position? Just because he has laid it out for us (very helpfully I will say)?
On 19 Feb 2025 19:49:53 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
On 19 Feb 2025 at 19:40:28 GMT, "Martin Harran" <martinharran@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 17:29:00 +0000, Martin Harran
<martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
My local church, like many since Covid days, streams religious
services live on both Youtube and Facebook. If somebody watches those
on a) a PC or b) a Smart TV, do you think either of those requires a
TV licence?
For PC, I should really have said PC, phone or tablet, if that makes
any difference.
It doesn't. Nor does whether it is a TV using satellite or terrestrial signals
or an IP connection. Note that the latest iteration of Sky hardware uses IP, >> not satellite, signals.
The licence used to relate to actually having a device capable of
receiving a TV signal but IIRC that has changed; I was wondering if
there was still any residue of that original qualification.
ISTR the old law also had provision for using portable TV devices off
the site where you held the TV licence *provided* that it ran off
batteries. Plug it into the mains and it was illegal.
If that arcane rule still holds then watching live TV on the train is
fine until you plug your device into into a wall socket.
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 08:09:05 +0000, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am>
wrote:
On 20/02/2025 07:58, Martin Harran wrote:
On 19 Feb 2025 19:49:53 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
On 19 Feb 2025 at 19:40:28 GMT, "Martin Harran" <martinharran@gmail.com> >>>> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 17:29:00 +0000, Martin Harran
<martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
My local church, like many since Covid days, streams religious
services live on both Youtube and Facebook. If somebody watches those >>>>>> on a) a PC or b) a Smart TV, do you think either of those requires a >>>>>> TV licence?
For PC, I should really have said PC, phone or tablet, if that makes >>>>> any difference.
It doesn't. Nor does whether it is a TV using satellite or terrestrial signals
or an IP connection. Note that the latest iteration of Sky hardware uses IP,
not satellite, signals.
The licence used to relate to actually having a device capable of
receiving a TV signal but IIRC that has changed; I was wondering if
there was still any residue of that original qualification.
The current law is this:
"363 Licence required for use of TV receiver
(1) A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the
installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence under
this Part."
Is a phone or a tabet a TV receiver?
On 20/02/2025 09:34, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2025-02-20, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
ISTR the old law also had provision for using portable TV devices off
the site where you held the TV licence *provided* that it ran off
batteries. Plug it into the mains and it was illegal.
If that arcane rule still holds then watching live TV on the train is
fine until you plug your device into into a wall socket.
That rule still holds, and you don't need to worry about trains:
Can I watch TV on my mobile phone without a TV Licence?
That is a very misleading question for a FAQ that is supposed to make
things clearer to the general public about the need for a TV licence!
If you’re using a mobile device powered solely by its own internal
batteries - like a smartphone, tablet or laptop - you will be
covered by your home's TV Licence, wherever you're using it in the
UK and Channel Islands.
However, if you're away from home and plug one of these devices into
the mains and use it to watch live on any channel, pay TV service or
streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer, you need to be covered by a
separate TV Licence at that address (unless you're in a vehicle or
vessel like a train, car or boat).
That's very generous of them. Because on a train you are quite literally plugged into UK mains electricity albeit through the trains systems.
Aircraft, boats, cars and caravans typically have their own inverters.
On 2025-02-20, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
ISTR the old law also had provision for using portable TV devices off
the site where you held the TV licence *provided* that it ran off
batteries. Plug it into the mains and it was illegal.
If that arcane rule still holds then watching live TV on the train is
fine until you plug your device into into a wall socket.
That rule still holds, and you don't need to worry about trains:
Can I watch TV on my mobile phone without a TV Licence?
If you’re using a mobile device powered solely by its own internal
batteries - like a smartphone, tablet or laptop - you will be
covered by your home's TV Licence, wherever you're using it in the
UK and Channel Islands.
However, if you're away from home and plug one of these devices into
the mains and use it to watch live on any channel, pay TV service or
streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer, you need to be covered by a
separate TV Licence at that address (unless you're in a vehicle or
vessel like a train, car or boat).
On 20 Feb 2025 at 10:42:07 GMT, "Martin Brown" <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/02/2025 09:34, Jon Ribbens wrote:
However, if you're away from home and plug one of these devices into >>> the mains and use it to watch live on any channel, pay TV service or >>> streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer, you need to be covered by a >>> separate TV Licence at that address (unless you're in a vehicle or >>> vessel like a train, car or boat).
That's very generous of them. Because on a train you are quite literally
plugged into UK mains electricity albeit through the trains systems.
It would be unreasonable to expect people to know whether they were on an electric or a diesel train.
On 20/02/2025 10:51, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 20 Feb 2025 at 10:42:07 GMT, "Martin Brown" <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> >> wrote:
On 20/02/2025 09:34, Jon Ribbens wrote:
However, if you're away from home and plug one of these devices into >>>> the mains and use it to watch live on any channel, pay TV service or >>>> streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer, you need to be covered by a >>>> separate TV Licence at that address (unless you're in a vehicle or >>>> vessel like a train, car or boat).
That's very generous of them. Because on a train you are quite literally >>> plugged into UK mains electricity albeit through the trains systems.
It would be unreasonable to expect people to know whether they were on an
electric or a diesel train.
About as reasonable as the rest of this arcane piece of legislation.
On 20/02/2025 09:34, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2025-02-20, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
ISTR the old law also had provision for using portable TV devices off
the site where you held the TV licence *provided* that it ran off
batteries. Plug it into the mains and it was illegal.
If that arcane rule still holds then watching live TV on the train is
fine until you plug your device into into a wall socket.
That rule still holds, and you don't need to worry about trains:
Can I watch TV on my mobile phone without a TV Licence?
That is a very misleading question for a FAQ that is supposed to make
things clearer to the general public about the need for a TV licence!
If you’re using a mobile device powered solely by its own internal
batteries - like a smartphone, tablet or laptop - you will be
covered by your home's TV Licence, wherever you're using it in the
UK and Channel Islands.
However, if you're away from home and plug one of these devices into
the mains and use it to watch live on any channel, pay TV service or
streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer, you need to be covered by a
separate TV Licence at that address (unless you're in a vehicle or
vessel like a train, car or boat).
That's very generous of them. Because on a train you are quite literally plugged into UK mains electricity albeit through the trains systems.
Aircraft, boats, cars and caravans typically have their own inverters.
On 20 Feb 2025 at 11:18:16 GMT, "Martin Brown" <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/02/2025 10:51, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 20 Feb 2025 at 10:42:07 GMT, "Martin Brown" <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> >>> wrote:
On 20/02/2025 09:34, Jon Ribbens wrote:
However, if you're away from home and plug one of these devices into
the mains and use it to watch live on any channel, pay TV service or
streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer, you need to be covered by a >>>>> separate TV Licence at that address (unless you're in a vehicle or >>>>> vessel like a train, car or boat).
That's very generous of them. Because on a train you are quite literally >>>> plugged into UK mains electricity albeit through the trains systems.
It would be unreasonable to expect people to know whether they were on an >>> electric or a diesel train.
About as reasonable as the rest of this arcane piece of legislation.
To be fair it made reasonable sense when it was enacted. It has just been overtaken by technological change.
There does seem to be a general feeling
that it can't last much longer.
On 19 Feb 2025 09:33:50 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
On 19 Feb 2025 at 08:03:39 GMT, "Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
On 18/02/2025 20:41, Saxman wrote:
As I understand it, one doesn't require a TV licence if one doesn’t
watch BBC or live TV (including streamed content, such as Aljazeerer), >>>> or subscribe to iPlayer.
However, I do subscribe via a subscription to Amazon Prime/Video. Am I >>>> allowed to watch live content, such as football) on that channel? After >>>> all, I have paid for it.
Upon opening, the said channel, the advertising is 'live', so in effect, >>>> I've broken the law by default?
So confusing.
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live, no >>> matter who broadcasts or streams it.
Do you know the definition of a broadcaster? Youtube do plenty of live >>streamed videos. Are they a broadcaster? And many firms and professional >>associations do live streamed "webinars" or similar, even though there main >>business is not publishing videos. I don't profess to know the answer myself.
It's complicated, and hasn't been fully tested in court. But the basic rule >of thumb is that there are three specific situations which require a TV >lience:
a) Where the source is a TV channel licensed to broadcast in the UK (eg,
BBC, ITV, Sky, MTV and so on - basically, anything which appears on the
EPG of Freeview, Sky+, BTTV, etc), whether the actual content is live
(eg news, sport) or not (soaps, movies, etc).
b) Where the source is not a licensed TV channel, but is a "television
programme service" and the content is live (eg, live sport on Amazon
Prime).
c) Viewing content on BBC iPlayer, whether live or not.
Of those, (a) and (c) are easy to define. There's a canonical list of >licensed TV broadcasters, and there's only one BBC iPlayer. It's easy to
know when you're using any of those. It's (b) which is awkward, because it >revolves around the definition of a "televison programme service", which >isn't defined in law and hasn't yet been fully tested in the courts.
On 20 Feb 2025 at 10:42:07 GMT, "Martin Brown" <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/02/2025 09:34, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2025-02-20, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
ISTR the old law also had provision for using portable TV devices off
the site where you held the TV licence *provided* that it ran off
batteries. Plug it into the mains and it was illegal.
If that arcane rule still holds then watching live TV on the train is
fine until you plug your device into into a wall socket.
That rule still holds, and you don't need to worry about trains:
Can I watch TV on my mobile phone without a TV Licence?
That is a very misleading question for a FAQ that is supposed to make
things clearer to the general public about the need for a TV licence!
If you’re using a mobile device powered solely by its own internal >>> batteries - like a smartphone, tablet or laptop - you will be
covered by your home's TV Licence, wherever you're using it in the >>> UK and Channel Islands.
However, if you're away from home and plug one of these devices into >>> the mains and use it to watch live on any channel, pay TV service or >>> streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer, you need to be covered by a >>> separate TV Licence at that address (unless you're in a vehicle or >>> vessel like a train, car or boat).
That's very generous of them. Because on a train you are quite literally
plugged into UK mains electricity albeit through the trains systems.
It would be unreasonable to expect people to know whether they were on an electric or a diesel train.
On 20/02/2025 09:02, Martin Harran wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 08:09:05 +0000, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am>
wrote:
On 20/02/2025 07:58, Martin Harran wrote:
On 19 Feb 2025 19:49:53 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
On 19 Feb 2025 at 19:40:28 GMT, "Martin Harran"
<martinharran@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 17:29:00 +0000, Martin Harran
<martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
My local church, like many since Covid days, streams religious
services live on both Youtube and Facebook. If somebody watches
those
on a) a PC or b) a Smart TV, do you think either of those requires a >>>>>>> TV licence?
For PC, I should really have said PC, phone or tablet, if that makes >>>>>> any difference.
It doesn't. Nor does whether it is a TV using satellite or
terrestrial signals
or an IP connection. Note that the latest iteration of Sky hardware
uses IP,
not satellite, signals.
The licence used to relate to actually having a device capable of
receiving a TV signal but IIRC that has changed; I was wondering if
there was still any residue of that original qualification.
The current law is this:
"363 Licence required for use of TV receiver
(1) A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the
installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence under
this Part."
Is a phone or a tabet a TV receiver?
Therein lies the problem. It can be but only with the right software
(and you have to run the software for it to be an offence).
A TV these days no longer needs to be "installed" by a technician in the quaint sense that the antediluvian Communications Act (2003) imagines.
ISTR when they sell you a TV these days they ask for name and address.
A PC can be a TV if it runs iPlayer or any number of other channel
specific streaming tools. Unless it does that it isn't being a TV. It
has that potential capability but only if you run the right software.
You can also by rather capable dongles to turn a PC into a TV or
software defined radio (if you choose one with the right chipset). Where
does a TV capable piece of hardware subverted to do something else
entirely sit in this new chaotic hierarchy?
On 20/02/2025 09:21, Martin Brown wrote:
On 20/02/2025 09:02, Martin Harran wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 08:09:05 +0000, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am>
wrote:
On 20/02/2025 07:58, Martin Harran wrote:
On 19 Feb 2025 19:49:53 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
On 19 Feb 2025 at 19:40:28 GMT, "Martin Harran"
<martinharran@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 17:29:00 +0000, Martin Harran
<martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
My local church, like many since Covid days, streams religious >>>>>>>> services live on both Youtube and Facebook. If somebody watches >>>>>>>> those
on a) a PC or b) a Smart TV, do you think either of those
requires a
TV licence?
For PC, I should really have said PC, phone or tablet, if that makes >>>>>>> any difference.
It doesn't. Nor does whether it is a TV using satellite or
terrestrial signals
or an IP connection. Note that the latest iteration of Sky
hardware uses IP,
not satellite, signals.
The licence used to relate to actually having a device capable of
receiving a TV signal but IIRC that has changed; I was wondering if
there was still any residue of that original qualification.
The current law is this:
"363 Licence required for use of TV receiver
(1) A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the
installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence under
this Part."
Is a phone or a tabet a TV receiver?
Therein lies the problem. It can be but only with the right software
(and you have to run the software for it to be an offence).
Not necessarily. If you have installed the relevant software to watch
live TV or iPlayer, I think it's reasonable to say you have installed
your phone or tablet as a television receiver, whether or not you
actually use those apps.
A TV these days no longer needs to be "installed" by a technician in
the quaint sense that the antediluvian Communications Act (2003)
imagines. ISTR when they sell you a TV these days they ask for name
and address.
A PC can be a TV if it runs iPlayer or any number of other channel
specific streaming tools. Unless it does that it isn't being a TV. It
has that potential capability but only if you run the right software.
You can also by rather capable dongles to turn a PC into a TV or
software defined radio (if you choose one with the right chipset).
Where does a TV capable piece of hardware subverted to do something
else entirely sit in this new chaotic hierarchy?
When it is enabled to display live TV.
On 20/02/2025 12:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 20 Feb 2025 at 11:18:16 GMT, "Martin Brown" <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> >> wrote:
On 20/02/2025 10:51, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 20 Feb 2025 at 10:42:07 GMT, "Martin Brown" <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> >>>> wrote:
On 20/02/2025 09:34, Jon Ribbens wrote:
However, if you're away from home and plug one of these devices into
the mains and use it to watch live on any channel, pay TV service or
streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer, you need to be covered by a
separate TV Licence at that address (unless you're in a vehicle or
vessel like a train, car or boat).
That's very generous of them. Because on a train you are quite literally >>>>> plugged into UK mains electricity albeit through the trains systems.
It would be unreasonable to expect people to know whether they were on an >>>> electric or a diesel train.
About as reasonable as the rest of this arcane piece of legislation.
To be fair it made reasonable sense when it was enacted. It has just been
overtaken by technological change.
The wording of the Act actually made it quite future proof, and reads perfectly well onto tablets and phones where live TV watching is enabled.
There does seem to be a general feeling
that it can't last much longer.
Does there? Where?
On 20/02/2025 09:21, Martin Brown wrote:
On 20/02/2025 09:02, Martin Harran wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 08:09:05 +0000, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am>
wrote:
On 20/02/2025 07:58, Martin Harran wrote:
On 19 Feb 2025 19:49:53 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
On 19 Feb 2025 at 19:40:28 GMT, "Martin Harran"
<martinharran@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 17:29:00 +0000, Martin Harran
<martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
My local church, like many since Covid days, streams religious >>>>>>>> services live on both Youtube and Facebook. If somebody watches >>>>>>>> those
on a) a PC or b) a Smart TV, do you think either of those requires a >>>>>>>> TV licence?
For PC, I should really have said PC, phone or tablet, if that makes >>>>>>> any difference.
It doesn't. Nor does whether it is a TV using satellite or
terrestrial signals
or an IP connection. Note that the latest iteration of Sky hardware >>>>>> uses IP,
not satellite, signals.
The licence used to relate to actually having a device capable of
receiving a TV signal but IIRC that has changed; I was wondering if
there was still any residue of that original qualification.
The current law is this:
"363 Licence required for use of TV receiver
(1) A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the
installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence under
this Part."
Is a phone or a tabet a TV receiver?
Therein lies the problem. It can be but only with the right software
(and you have to run the software for it to be an offence).
Not necessarily. If you have installed the relevant software to watch
live TV or iPlayer, I think it's reasonable to say you have installed
your phone or tablet as a television receiver, whether or not you
actually use those apps.
A TV these days no longer needs to be "installed" by a technician in the
quaint sense that the antediluvian Communications Act (2003) imagines.
ISTR when they sell you a TV these days they ask for name and address.
A PC can be a TV if it runs iPlayer or any number of other channel
specific streaming tools. Unless it does that it isn't being a TV. It
has that potential capability but only if you run the right software.
You can also by rather capable dongles to turn a PC into a TV or
software defined radio (if you choose one with the right chipset). Where
does a TV capable piece of hardware subverted to do something else
entirely sit in this new chaotic hierarchy?
When it is enabled to display live TV.
My local church, like many since Covid days, streams religious
services live on both Youtube and Facebook. If somebody watches those
on a) a PC or b) a Smart TV, do you think either of those requires a
TV licence?
On 2025-02-19, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
On 19/02/2025 08:03, Norman Wells wrote:
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live, no >>> matter who broadcasts or streams it.
So, if our daughter shows my wife and me a live video of our
granddaughter playing - transmitted from said daughter's phone ...?
That's not a "broadcast".
And a TV licence is specific to premises. What if I get my daughter's
video whilst standing in the checkout queue in the supermarket?
That would be covered by the battery-powered-device exception,
assuming you had a TV licence at home.
On 19/02/2025 11:02 AM, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2025-02-19, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
On 19/02/2025 08:03, Norman Wells wrote:
You need a TV licence if you watch anything at all live or near live, no >>>> matter who broadcasts or streams it.
So, if our daughter shows my wife and me a live video of our
granddaughter playing - transmitted from said daughter's phone ...?
That's not a "broadcast".
How about a Live Stream from a Facebook user, which any of the users
Friends may watch?
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