• Reading an Italian will

    From Pamela@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 31 14:00:44 2025
    Does Italy publish a deceased person's will?

    A friend of mine died several months ago. He was an Italian citizen, born
    in Italy and living there when he died.

    Unfortunately his family have been reticent to discuss his will. Where can
    a member of the public find it?

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  • From Nick Odell@21:1/5 to uklm@permabulator.33mail.com on Mon Mar 31 17:06:16 2025
    On Mon, 31 Mar 2025 14:00:44 +0100, Pamela
    <uklm@permabulator.33mail.com> wrote:

    Does Italy publish a deceased person's will?

    A friend of mine died several months ago. He was an Italian citizen, born
    in Italy and living there when he died.

    Unfortunately his family have been reticent to discuss his will. Where can
    a member of the public find it?

    My short answer is, I don't know.

    My longer answer is: do we know whether wills are even a common thing
    in Italy?

    I know nothing about Italian law but have learned quite a bit about
    Argentine law which is derived from the same Napoleonic Code which I
    presume still underpins French, Spanish and Italian law to some
    degree.

    In Argentina it is possible to write a will but very few people do
    because the law is highly prescriptive about how an estate may be
    distributed. Freedom to choose beneficiaries outside this prescription
    is limited to only 20% of the value of the estate and most people are
    satisfied with the status quo.

    Maybe our resident Italian contributor will chip in?

    Nick

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  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to Nick Odell on Mon Mar 31 20:11:58 2025
    On 17:06 31 Mar 2025, Nick Odell said:
    On Mon, 31 Mar 2025 14:00:44 +0100, Pamela
    <uklm@permabulator.33mail.com> wrote:

    Does Italy publish a deceased person's will?

    A friend of mine died several months ago. He was an Italian citizen,
    born in Italy and living there when he died.

    Unfortunately his family have been reticent to discuss his will.
    Where can a member of the public find it?

    My short answer is, I don't know.

    My longer answer is: do we know whether wills are even a common thing
    in Italy?

    I know nothing about Italian law but have learned quite a bit about
    Argentine law which is derived from the same Napoleonic Code which I
    presume still underpins French, Spanish and Italian law to some
    degree.

    In Argentina it is possible to write a will but very few people do
    because the law is highly prescriptive about how an estate may be distributed. Freedom to choose beneficiaries outside this prescription
    is limited to only 20% of the value of the estate and most people are satisfied with the status quo.

    Maybe our resident Italian contributor will chip in?

    Nick

    The sites I saw do mention the Italian state has some fixed
    requirements about how the estate is divided in certain circumstances

    The situation is that many years ago I bailed out my friend's firm with
    a large loan but it was done on a handshake and wasn't documented as we operated on trust. It saved his firm from bankruptcy and he had never
    forgotten it, so I'm wondering if it appears in his will.

    However as this is a family firm, there's inevitably some blurring
    between personal and company assets & liabilities. So the first step
    would be to see any will.

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  • From Ottavio Caruso@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 1 15:17:51 2025
    Op 31/03/2025 om 14:00 schreef Pamela:
    Does Italy publish a deceased person's will?

    Italy doesn't publish wills. It's up to the person to register his will
    or not.


    A friend of mine died several months ago. He was an Italian citizen, born
    in Italy and living there when he died.

    Unfortunately his family have been reticent to discuss his will. Where can
    a member of the public find it?


    https://www.giustizia.it/giustizia/it/mg_3_9_11.page?tab=e

    But, IANAL although I am a uni drop out in law, it all depends on
    whether the "de cuius" <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_cuius> has
    register his/her will, which is not so frequent as in the UK.


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  • From Ottavio Caruso@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 1 15:20:06 2025
    Op 31/03/2025 om 17:06 schreef Nick Odell:
    My longer answer is: do we know whether wills are even a common thing
    in Italy?

    They are not as common as in the UK, as the Italian law often prevails
    on the will. In other words, you are not free to devolve all your
    fortune to your 21yo 4th wife if you have kids and previous wife/wives.

    It's more a bourgeois/rich man thing but it does exist.

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  • From Ottavio Caruso@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 1 15:22:55 2025
    Op 31/03/2025 om 20:11 schreef Pamela:


    The sites I saw do mention the Italian state has some fixed
    requirements about how the estate is divided in certain circumstances

    https://www.giustizia.it/giustizia/it/mg_3_9_17.page?tab=e



    The situation is that many years ago I bailed out my friend's firm with
    a large loan but it was done on a handshake and wasn't documented as we operated on trust. It saved his firm from bankruptcy and he had never forgotten it, so I'm wondering if it appears in his will.

    100% not, unless it was a registered donation.


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  • From Ottavio Caruso@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 1 15:27:55 2025
    Op 31/03/2025 om 14:00 schreef Pamela:
    Unfortunately his family have been reticent to discuss his will.

    I forgot to add to what I said above.

    You can always hire a lawyer and ask the tribunal to force his family to
    reveal if there was a will, in case the will was not registered.

    A little hint: if the person lived in a relatively small area with just
    one "Notaio", I would start from the local "Notaio".

    If you donated money to the deceased and the donation was not
    registered, but you have proof of donations, then you'd have to demand
    the money from the "curatore fallimentare" (if there is one), rather
    than the family.

    Hint no 2: In Italy, it usually costs more money to claim money in court
    that you actually are entitled to.

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  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to Pamela on Mon Mar 31 19:24:24 2025
    On 31/03/2025 14:00, Pamela wrote:
    Does Italy publish a deceased person's will?

    A friend of mine died several months ago. He was an Italian citizen, born
    in Italy and living there when he died.

    Unfortunately his family have been reticent to discuss his will. Where can
    a member of the public find it?

    <https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=wills+italy+published&ia=web>

    --
    Jeff

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  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to Ottavio Caruso on Fri Apr 4 17:03:25 2025
    On 15:17 1 Apr 2025, Ottavio Caruso said:
    Op 31/03/2025 om 14:00 schreef Pamela:


    Does Italy publish a deceased person's will?

    Italy doesn't publish wills. It's up to the person to register his
    will or not.

    A friend of mine died several months ago. He was an Italian citizen,
    born in Italy and living there when he died.

    Unfortunately his family have been reticent to discuss his will.
    Where can a member of the public find it?


    https://www.giustizia.it/giustizia/it/mg_3_9_11.page?tab=e

    But, IANAL although I am a uni drop out in law, it all depends on
    whether the "de cuius" <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_cuius> has
    register his/her will, which is not so frequent as in the UK.

    Thank you for the information. Is there an online search service in
    Italy for wills?

    I am looking for something similar to this at the UK Probate Office:

    https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to Pamela on Sun Apr 6 09:23:05 2025
    Pamela wrote:

    I am looking for something similar to this at the UK Probate Office:

    https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
    Officially you can store thhem with the probate service

    <https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/store-a-will-with-the-probate-service/how-to-store-a-will-with-the-probate-service>

    This one isn't a .gov.uk service, but it's recommended by the Law Society

    <https://www.nationalwillregister.co.uk/>

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  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Sun Apr 6 15:09:01 2025
    On 09:23 6 Apr 2025, Andy Burns said:
    Pamela wrote:

    I am looking for something similar to this at the UK Probate Office:

    https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
    Officially you can store thhem with the probate service

    <https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/store-a-will-with-the-proba te-service/how-to-store-a-will-with-the-probate-service>

    This one isn't a .gov.uk service, but it's recommended by the Law
    Society

    <https://www.nationalwillregister.co.uk/>

    My post wasn't as clear as it should have been.

    I'm looking for a site where I can read Italian wills, similar to what the
    UK probate registry provides for UK wills.

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  • From Ottavio Caruso@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 7 15:29:22 2025
    Op 04/04/2025 om 17:03 schreef Pamela:
    Thank you for the information. Is there an online search service in
    Italy for wills?

    There may be one but probably only for professionals ("Notai" and
    "Avvocati").

    In any case, like I said, no lawyer, no party.

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