https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla
ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla
ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
(I was recently driving a European hire Renault Clio and the speedo agreed with GPS, so I wonder if this over-read is just a UK thing)
Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla
ones ?
Tesla are known to fake their range numbers. eg the car says it's fully charged and has 370 miles of range, but drive it 100 miles and it now has 150 miles of range.
They had a secret team to cancel service appointments over range complaints: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
Are odometers inspected at all? Speedos can be tested to over-read 10%, but odometers?
(I was recently driving a European hire Renault Clio and the speedo agreed with GPS, so I wonder if this over-read is just a UK thing)
Theo
(I was recently driving a European hire Renault Clio and the speedo agreed >with GPS, so I wonder if this over-read is just a UK thing)
On 4/17/25 17:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to other
road users
2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an isolated area in
hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to other
road users
2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an isolated area in
hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
On 17 Apr 2025 11:19:45 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
(I was recently driving a European hire Renault Clio and the speedo agreed >> with GPS, so I wonder if this over-read is just a UK thing)
I am sure that modern electronic speedometers are much more accurate
than old mechanicals ones but I could be wrong.
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There
are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a >>collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to
other road users
2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an isolated area in >>hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla
ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the
'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution (
times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate distance
measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres...
On 17/04/2025 15:05, Peter Johnson wrote:
On 17 Apr 2025 11:19:45 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
(I was recently driving a European hire Renault Clio and the speedo
agreed
with GPS, so I wonder if this over-read is just a UK thing)
I am sure that modern electronic speedometers are much more accurate
than old mechanicals ones but I could be wrong.
My 2015 Honda Jazz speedometer consistently reads 9% high. This can not
only be checked with motorway posts, but also by comparing the car's displayed mpg against the calculated mpg (odometer/petrol pump reading). Assuming the odometer is correct, why is the speedo reading high?
In addition, I can set the speed limiter high, and the actual speed
compares well with that displayed on roadside speed reporters. For
example, if I set the limit to 43 mph (also shown on the speedometer),
then as I pass the speed reporter it shows 40mph.
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, 18 Apr
2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
 Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There
are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a
collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to
other road users
2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an isolated area in
hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
On 18/04/2025 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, 18 Apr
2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
 Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There
are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a
collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to
other road users 2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an
isolated area in hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this
was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and
supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver and
told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a quite reasonable tip in those days).
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla
ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the
'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I
designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution (
times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate distance
measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures.
On 18/04/2025 15:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 21:00:41 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:Only for some purposes!
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla >>>>> ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the
'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I >>>> designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution (
times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate distance
measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres... >>>
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures. >>
Those marker posts used to be spaced at 1/10th mile (176 yard)
intervals. I can remember counting them as a fraction of the spacing of
the blue telephone boxes (1 mile), from the passenger seat of a van,
over fifty years ago. If only we'd had a radio...
In order to be 100 metres apart instead of 176 yards, not only would
each have to carry a different mileage number from the original, but the *location* of every one of them all along the motorways built before
the craze for metric* would have to have been changed.
That's a big job.
I think I'd have noticed it being done.
* That's M1 from Staples Corner to Leeds (the northern end is different
now), M11, M2, M20, M27 Havant to Cadnam, M3, M4, M5 Birmingham to
Exeter, M50, M6 Crick Carlisle, M62 Liverpool to Hull, M61 Manchester to Preston and M23 Coulsden to Pease Pottage. Plus a large number of
shorter linking and spur motorways (M26, M66, M57, M58, M69, M42 and
many others)
On 18 Apr 2025 at 21:00:41 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla >>>> ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the
'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I >>> designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution (
times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate distance
measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres... >>
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures.
Only for some purposes!
On 18/04/2025 21:00, JNugent wrote:
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla >>>> ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the
'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days
when I designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel
revolution ( times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate
distance measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100
Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial
measures.
The way it was calibrated meant it could measure km or miles.Miles for
the UK, km for Europe.
On 18/04/2025 16:28, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 22:23:29 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 18/04/2025 15:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 21:00:41 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/ >>>>>>>
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla >>>>>>> ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the
'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I >>>>>> designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution ( >>>>>> times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate distance
measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures.
Only for some purposes!
Those marker posts used to be spaced at 1/10th mile (176 yard)
intervals. I can remember counting them as a fraction of the spacing of
the blue telephone boxes (1 mile), from the passenger seat of a van,
over fifty years ago. If only we'd had a radio...
In order to be 100 metres apart instead of 176 yards, not only would
each have to carry a different mileage number from the original, but the >>> *location* of every one of them all along the motorways built before
the craze for metric* would have to have been changed.
The "craze for metric" began 150 years before the M1 was built.
That's odd, because those marker posts were DEFINITELY 176 yards apart.
And certainly NOT 100 metres apart.
And it was a lot less than 150 years before the opening of the first
motorway in the UK (1958, so 1808)
On 18 Apr 2025 at 22:48:17 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 18/04/2025 16:28, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 22:23:29 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 18/04/2025 15:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 21:00:41 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote: >>>>>
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/ >>>>>>>>
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla
ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the >>>>>>> 'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I
designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution ( >>>>>>> times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate distance
measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures.
Only for some purposes!
Those marker posts used to be spaced at 1/10th mile (176 yard)
intervals. I can remember counting them as a fraction of the spacing of >>>> the blue telephone boxes (1 mile), from the passenger seat of a van,
over fifty years ago. If only we'd had a radio...
In order to be 100 metres apart instead of 176 yards, not only would
each have to carry a different mileage number from the original, but the >>>> *location* of every one of them all along the motorways built before
the craze for metric* would have to have been changed.
The "craze for metric" began 150 years before the M1 was built.
That's odd, because those marker posts were DEFINITELY 176 yards apart.
And certainly NOT 100 metres apart.
And it was a lot less than 150 years before the opening of the first
motorway in the UK (1958, so 1808)
The metric system was adopted in France in 1799. And used quite widely in Europe soon after that.
On 18 Apr 2025 at 22:23:29 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 18/04/2025 15:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 21:00:41 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:Only for some purposes!
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla >>>>>> ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the
'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I >>>>> designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution ( >>>>> times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate distance
measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures. >>>
Those marker posts used to be spaced at 1/10th mile (176 yard)
intervals. I can remember counting them as a fraction of the spacing of
the blue telephone boxes (1 mile), from the passenger seat of a van,
over fifty years ago. If only we'd had a radio...
In order to be 100 metres apart instead of 176 yards, not only would
each have to carry a different mileage number from the original, but the
*location* of every one of them all along the motorways built before
the craze for metric* would have to have been changed.
The "craze for metric" began 150 years before the M1 was built.
That's a big job.
I think I'd have noticed it being done.
* That's M1 from Staples Corner to Leeds (the northern end is different
now), M11, M2, M20, M27 Havant to Cadnam, M3, M4, M5 Birmingham to
Exeter, M50, M6 Crick Carlisle, M62 Liverpool to Hull, M61 Manchester to
Preston and M23 Coulsden to Pease Pottage. Plus a large number of
shorter linking and spur motorways (M26, M66, M57, M58, M69, M42 and
many others)
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla
ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the 'average' rolling
circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I designed a rally navigation
computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution ( times the rolling circumference) gave very
accurate distance measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures.
"JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote in message news:m6fpb8Fq23sU7@mid.individual.net...
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla >>>> ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the 'average' rolling
circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I designed a rally navigation
computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution ( times the rolling circumference) gave very
accurate distance measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres... >>
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures.
You do realise of course, that had you instead typed the two words " motorway markers" into Google, you could have saved yourself around 90 keystrokes ?
On 18/04/2025 15:18, billy bookcase wrote:
"JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote in message news:m6fpb8Fq23sU7@mid.individual.net...
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:You do realise of course, that had you instead typed the two words " motorway
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla >>>>> ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the 'average' rolling
circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I designed a rally navigation
computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution ( times the rolling circumference) gave very
accurate distance measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres... >>>
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures. >>
markers" into Google, you could have saved yourself around 90 keystrokes ?
Have they been changed from spacing at 176 yards to 100 metres? And
increased in numbers as well as changed in location?
JNugent <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 18/04/2025 15:18, billy bookcase wrote:
"JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote in message news:m6fpb8Fq23sU7@mid.individual.net...
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:You do realise of course, that had you instead typed the two words " motorway
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla >>>>>> ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the 'average' rolling
circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I designed a rally navigation
computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution ( times the rolling circumference) gave very
accurate distance measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures. >>>
markers" into Google, you could have saved yourself around 90 keystrokes ? >>
Have they been changed from spacing at 176 yards to 100 metres? And
increased in numbers as well as changed in location?
Online sources say they have been at 100 metre intervals since the 1970s.
Personally I would put it before 1973, probably nearer 1965. I remember
being very interested in them when on a school trip and in particular the metric spacing when the distances on the direction signs were in miles.
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla
ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the
'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when
I designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution
( times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate distance
measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100
Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures.
Those marker posts used to be spaced at 1/10th mile (176 yard)
intervals. I can remember counting them as a fraction of the spacing of
the blue telephone boxes (1 mile), from the passenger seat of a van,
over fifty years ago.
On a smartphone, you could try www.whatismyelevation.com
Measure your speed, without need for external observation points, in
mph, km/h, knots, m/s or mach.
Roland Perry wrote:I had similar happen in a Mk3 Escort, when a muddy shoe slipped off the
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this
was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and
supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver and
told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a quite reasonable tip in those days).
On 18/04/2025 15:18, billy bookcase wrote:
"JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote in message
news:m6fpb8Fq23sU7@mid.individual.net...
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:You do realise of course, that had you instead typed the two words " motorway
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla >>>>> ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the 'average' rolling
circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I designed a rally navigation
computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution ( times the rolling circumference) gave very
accurate distance measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres... >>>
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures. >>
markers" into Google, you could have saved yourself around 90 keystrokes ?
Have they been changed from spacing at 176 yards to 100 metres? And increased in
numbers as well as changed in location?
On 18/04/2025 16:56, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 22:48:17 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 18/04/2025 16:28, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 22:23:29 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 18/04/2025 15:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 21:00:41 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote: >>>>>>
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/ >>>>>>>>>AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the >>>>>>>> 'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla
ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ? >>>>>>>>
designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution ( >>>>>>>> times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate distance
measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures.
Only for some purposes!
Those marker posts used to be spaced at 1/10th mile (176 yard)
intervals. I can remember counting them as a fraction of the spacing of >>>>> the blue telephone boxes (1 mile), from the passenger seat of a van, >>>>> over fifty years ago. If only we'd had a radio...
In order to be 100 metres apart instead of 176 yards, not only would >>>>> each have to carry a different mileage number from the original, but the >>>>> *location* of every one of them all along the motorways built before >>>>> the craze for metric* would have to have been changed.
The "craze for metric" began 150 years before the M1 was built.
That's odd, because those marker posts were DEFINITELY 176 yards apart.
And certainly NOT 100 metres apart.
And it was a lot less than 150 years before the opening of the first
motorway in the UK (1958, so 1808)
The metric system was adopted in France in 1799. And used quite widely in
Europe soon after that.
But not in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, which is
what matters here.
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this
was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
On a smartphone, you could try www.whatismyelevation.com
Measure your speed, without need for external observation points, in
mph, km/h, knots, m/s or mach.
Thanks for the info.
There seem to be quite a few "speed" apps for mobile phones. All
require "location" turned on, but as far as possible (which is not far >enough...) I have location services turned off on my phone.
In message <m6fpt5Fq9t8U1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:10:14 on Fri, 18
Apr 2025, JNugent <jnugent73@mail.com> remarked:
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this
was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
Curiously, it's no longer 50 years ago (unless you are Dr Who).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and
supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver and
told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a quite
reasonable tip in those days).
One of our customers once asked us to supply them with a clutch cable to >carry as a spare. When we said it would be tricky for him to change it,
he said "Yes. But easy for the AA patrolman I'd call ..." which I felt
was remarkably common sense.
On 19 Apr 2025 at 12:43:03 BST, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <m6fpt5Fq9t8U1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:10:14 on Fri, 18
Apr 2025, JNugent <jnugent73@mail.com> remarked:
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this
was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
Curiously, it's no longer 50 years ago (unless you are Dr Who).
It'll probably not be long before directly human-operable clutches are a distant memory.
On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 09:52:08 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
There seem to be quite a few "speed" apps for mobile phones. All require
"location" turned on, but as far as possible (which is not far
enough...) I have location services turned off on my phone.
Why?
On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 09:52:08 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
On 18/04/2025 21:06, JNugent wrote:
On a smartphone, you could try www.whatismyelevation.com
Measure your speed, without need for external observation points, in
mph, km/h, knots, m/s or mach.
Thanks for the info.
There seem to be quite a few "speed" apps for mobile phones. All require
"location" turned on, but as far as possible (which is not far
enough...) I have location services turned off on my phone.
Why?
In message <vtvo7o$sol8$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:52:08 on Sat, 19 Apr
2025, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On a smartphone, you could try www.whatismyelevation.com
Measure your speed, without need for external observation points, in
mph, km/h, knots, m/s or mach.
Thanks for the info.
There seem to be quite a few "speed" apps for mobile phones. All
require "location" turned on, but as far as possible (which is not far
enough...) I have location services turned off on my phone.
You can't turn off the network's cellsite location services, because
they need it to direct calls to the most suitable mast.
On 18/04/2025 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, 18 Apr
2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
 Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There
are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a
collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to
other road users
2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an isolated area in
hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this
was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and
supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver and
told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a quite reasonable tip in those days).
On 18/04/2025 21:10, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2025 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, 18 Apr
2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
 Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There >>>>> are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a >>>>> collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to
other road users 2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an
isolated area in hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this
was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and
supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver and
told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a quite
reasonable tip in those days).
The clutch cable of *my* Mk I Escort broke. I should have just kept
going rather than calling the AA, as clutchless gear changes were a
cinch on that model. *And* you could start it in gear.
On 2025-04-19, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
On 19 Apr 2025 at 12:43:03 BST, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <m6fpt5Fq9t8U1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:10:14 on Fri, 18
Apr 2025, JNugent <jnugent73@mail.com> remarked:
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or >>>>>> your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this >>>> was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
Curiously, it's no longer 50 years ago (unless you are Dr Who).
It'll probably not be long before directly human-operable clutches are a
distant memory.
"Not long"? I'm pretty sure I haven't driven a car with a manual clutch
for several decades.
On 19 Apr 2025 at 12:43:03 BST, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <m6fpt5Fq9t8U1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:10:14 on Fri, 18
Apr 2025, JNugent <jnugent73@mail.com> remarked:
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this
was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
Curiously, it's no longer 50 years ago (unless you are Dr Who).
It'll probably not be long before directly human-operable clutches are a distant memory.
JNugent <jnugent73@mail.com> remarked:
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
 Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout
(this was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
Curiously, it's no longer 50 years ago (unless you are Dr Who).
On 18/04/2025 21:10, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2025 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, 18 Apr
2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
 Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There >>>>> are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after
a collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to
other road users
2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an isolated area in
hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout
(this was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and
supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver
and told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a
quite reasonable tip in those days).
The clutch cable of *my* Mk I Escort broke. I should have just kept
going rather than calling the AA, as clutchless gear changes were a
cinch on that model. *And* you could start it in gear.
On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 17:47:30 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/04/2025 21:10, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2025 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, 18 Apr
2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There >>>>>> are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a >>>>>> collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to
other road users 2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an >>>>>> isolated area in hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this
was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and
supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver and >>> told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a quite >>> reasonable tip in those days).
The clutch cable of *my* Mk I Escort broke. I should have just kept
going rather than calling the AA, as clutchless gear changes were a
cinch on that model. *And* you could start it in gear.
Unless there is some clever interlock, most manuals can be started in
gear.
Clutchless gear changes on an original FIAT 500 were fun.
In message <vtubpj$vrjl$4@dont-email.me>, at 20:13:39 on Fri, 18 Apr
2025, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and
supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver and >>> told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a quite >>> reasonable tip in those days).
One of our customers once asked us to supply them with a clutch cable to
carry as a spare. When we said it would be tricky for him to change it,
he said "Yes. But easy for the AA patrolman I'd call ..." which I felt
was remarkably common sense.
My Lotus** Europa had what I think was a Fiat van clutch cable (very
long, almost from the very front to very back of the car). They lasted
about 5,000 miles, I carried a spare, and was quite capable of fitting
it myself.
** Lots Of Trouble, Usually Seriuos.
On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 17:47:30 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/04/2025 21:10, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2025 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, 18 Apr
2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
 Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There >>>>>> are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a >>>>>> collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to
other road users 2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an >>>>>> isolated area in hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this
was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and
supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver and >>> told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a quite >>> reasonable tip in those days).
The clutch cable of *my* Mk I Escort broke. I should have just kept
going rather than calling the AA, as clutchless gear changes were a
cinch on that model. *And* you could start it in gear.
Unless there is some clever interlock, most manuals can be started in
gear.
On 18/04/2025 21:00, JNugent wrote:
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:Wikipedia might not be the best source of information but
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla >>>> ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the
'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days
when I designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel
revolution ( times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate
distance measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100
Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial
measures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_location_sign
points out that:
"Since at least 1980, motorways have had distance marker posts, aka
Blakedale Posts, installed at 100 metre intervals alongside the hard shoulder."
This links to Hansard. 21 Oct 2009 : Column 1446W
which includes:
"Chris Mole: For more than 30 years, distance marker posts have been
provided at 100 metre intervals along each hard shoulder of motorways.
Marker posts enable maintenance contractors to identify exactly where
repair works are needed. They also show the direction to the nearest
motorway emergency phone."Â (presumably that is why the Wiki article
simply says "Since at least 1980").
I have never heard of "Blakedale Posts" - it seems to be the company
which manufactures them.
On 18/04/2025 20:30, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 18/04/2025 21:00, JNugent wrote:
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:Wikipedia might not be the best source of information but
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly
Tesla
ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the
'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days
when I designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel
revolution ( times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate
distance measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100
Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial
measures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_location_sign
points out that:
"Since at least 1980, motorways have had distance marker posts, aka
Blakedale Posts, installed at 100 metre intervals alongside the hard
shoulder."
This links to Hansard. 21 Oct 2009 : Column 1446W
which includes:
"Chris Mole: For more than 30 years, distance marker posts have been
provided at 100 metre intervals along each hard shoulder of motorways.
Marker posts enable maintenance contractors to identify exactly where
repair works are needed. They also show the direction to the nearest
motorway emergency phone."Â (presumably that is why the Wiki article
simply says "Since at least 1980").
I have never heard of "Blakedale Posts" - it seems to be the company
which manufactures them.
In that case, it has all been changed. It was very definitely 10 posts
per mile (176 yards apart) when the first couple of thousand miles of motorway were built.
One wonders what possible utility can be gained from operating a mixture
of mileage and metric measures.
Previously, there were posts at n.0, n+1, n+2 miles, etc.
On 19/04/2025 18:58, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2025 20:30, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 18/04/2025 21:00, JNugent wrote:
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:Wikipedia might not be the best source of information but
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly
Tesla
ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the
'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days
when I designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel
revolution ( times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate
distance measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100
Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial
measures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_location_sign
points out that:
"Since at least 1980, motorways have had distance marker posts, aka
Blakedale Posts, installed at 100 metre intervals alongside the hard
shoulder."
This links to Hansard. 21 Oct 2009 : Column 1446W
which includes:
"Chris Mole: For more than 30 years, distance marker posts have been
provided at 100 metre intervals along each hard shoulder of
motorways. Marker posts enable maintenance contractors to identify
exactly where repair works are needed. They also show the direction
to the nearest motorway emergency phone."Â (presumably that is why
the Wiki article simply says "Since at least 1980").
I have never heard of "Blakedale Posts" - it seems to be the company
which manufactures them.
In that case, it has all been changed. It was very definitely 10 posts
per mile (176 yards apart) when the first couple of thousand miles of
motorway were built.
One wonders what possible utility can be gained from operating a
mixture of mileage and metric measures.
Previously, there were posts at n.0, n+1, n+2 miles, etc.
Sorry... that should have been:
"Previously, there were posts at n, n.1, n.2 miles, etc."
On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 15:10:14 -0500, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2025 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, 18 Apr
2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
 Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There >>>>> are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a >>>>> collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to
other road users 2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an
isolated area in hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this
was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and
supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver and
told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a quite
reasonable tip in those days).
One of our customers once asked us to supply them with a clutch cable to carry as a spare. When we said it would be tricky for him to change it,
he said "Yes. But easy for the AA patrolman I'd call ..." which I felt
was remarkably common sense.
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Driver_Location_Signs
Includes the following:
"Though driver location signs are a fairly recent invention, motorways have always been equipped with marker posts which show some of the same information, but in a very much smaller typeface which it is hard to read from a moving vehicle.
Until the 1970s marker posts were spaced at intervals of 110 yards and were numbered in miles and sixteenths of a mile. Since the 1970s they have been placed at 100 m intervals and numbered in kilometres and tenths. Since 110 yards is equal to 100.584 m, the spacing is almost the same as before."
On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 20:13:39 +0000, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 15:10:14 -0500, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2025 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, 18 Apr
2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
 Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision.
 There
are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after >>>>>> a collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to
other road users 2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an >>>>>> isolated area in hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout
(this was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and
supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver
and told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a
quite reasonable tip in those days).
One of our customers once asked us to supply them with a clutch cable
to carry as a spare. When we said it would be tricky for him to change
it, he said "Yes. But easy for the AA patrolman I'd call ..." which I
felt was remarkably common sense.
My mk1 Escort RS1600 BDA had a hydraulic clutch and a Corsair 2000E
gearbox.
On 19/04/2025 18:08, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 17:47:30 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/04/2025 21:10, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2025 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, 18 Apr >>>>> 2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
  Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There >>>>>>> are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a >>>>>>> collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to >>>>>>> other road users 2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an >>>>>>> isolated area in hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or >>>>>> your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this >>>> was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and
supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver and >>>> told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a quite >>>> reasonable tip in those days).
The clutch cable of *my* Mk I Escort broke. I should have just kept
going rather than calling the AA, as clutchless gear changes were a
cinch on that model. *And* you could start it in gear.
Unless there is some clever interlock, most manuals can be started in
gear.
Mine won't let me start the engine if left in gear.
On 19/04/2025 23:32, Fredxx wrote:
On 19/04/2025 18:08, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 17:47:30 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/04/2025 21:10, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2025 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, 18 Apr >>>>>> 2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There >>>>>>>> are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a >>>>>>>> collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to >>>>>>>> other road users 2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an >>>>>>>> isolated area in hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you >>>>>>> stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or >>>>>>> your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via >>>>> Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this >>>>> was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and
supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver and >>>>> told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a quite >>>>> reasonable tip in those days).
The clutch cable of *my* Mk I Escort broke. I should have just kept
going rather than calling the AA, as clutchless gear changes were a
cinch on that model. *And* you could start it in gear.
Unless there is some clever interlock, most manuals can be started in
gear.
Mine won't let me start the engine if left in gear.
That was the basis of my remark about stalling on a level crossing.
On 20 Apr 2025 at 12:13:50 BST, "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
On 19/04/2025 23:32, Fredxx wrote:
On 19/04/2025 18:08, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 17:47:30 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/04/2025 21:10, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2025 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, 18 Apr >>>>>>> 2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There >>>>>>>>> are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a >>>>>>>>> collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to >>>>>>>>> other road users 2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an >>>>>>>>> isolated area in hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you >>>>>>>> stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or >>>>>>>> your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via >>>>>> Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this >>>>>> was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and >>>>>> supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver and >>>>>> told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a quite >>>>>> reasonable tip in those days).
The clutch cable of *my* Mk I Escort broke. I should have just kept
going rather than calling the AA, as clutchless gear changes were a
cinch on that model. *And* you could start it in gear.
Unless there is some clever interlock, most manuals can be started in
gear.
Mine won't let me start the engine if left in gear.
That was the basis of my remark about stalling on a level crossing.
There is a lot to be said for waiting 20 yards before a level crossing until there is space the other side, and reaching the actual tracks with as much momentum as possible.
On 2025-04-20 12:29, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 20 Apr 2025 at 12:13:50 BST, "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com>Is that not also official guidance, eg Highway code:
wrote:
On 19/04/2025 23:32, Fredxx wrote:
On 19/04/2025 18:08, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 17:47:30 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/04/2025 21:10, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2025 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, >>>>>>>> 18 Apr
2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
  Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a
collision. There
are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even >>>>>>>>>> after a
collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to >>>>>>>>>> other road users 2. To keep driving (for example if you are >>>>>>>>>> in an
isolated area in hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you >>>>>>>>> stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine
started? Or
your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via >>>>>>> Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout >>>>>>> (this
was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and >>>>>>> supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a
fiver and
told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a >>>>>>> quite
reasonable tip in those days).
The clutch cable of *my* Mk I Escort broke. I should have just kept >>>>>> going rather than calling the AA, as clutchless gear changes were a >>>>>> cinch on that model. *And* you could start it in gear.
Unless there is some clever interlock, most manuals can be started in >>>>> gear.
Mine won't let me start the engine if left in gear.
That was the basis of my remark about stalling on a level crossing.
There is a lot to be said for waiting 20 yards before a level crossing
until
there is space the other side, and reaching the actual tracks with as
much
momentum as possible.
Rule 291
A level crossing is where a road crosses a railway or tramway line.
Approach and cross it with care. Never drive onto a crossing until the
road is clear on the other side and do not get too close to the car in
front. Never stop or park on, or near, a crossing.
So it should be a very rare occurrence to be trying to start a car
engine while on a crossing.
Meanwhile, how much damage to people or property is saved by preventing accidental starting while in gear?
Unless there is some clever interlock, most manuals can be started in
gear.
Clutchless gear changes on an original FIAT 500 were fun.
The last two manual vehicles I drove (a Transit and a Mini) both declined to >start without the clutch pedal depressed. Whether they sense the pedal or the >clutch itself I really don't know.
On 2025-04-19, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
On 19 Apr 2025 at 12:43:03 BST, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <m6fpt5Fq9t8U1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:10:14 on Fri, 18
Apr 2025, JNugent <jnugent73@mail.com> remarked:
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you
stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or >>>>>> your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via
Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this >>>> was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
Curiously, it's no longer 50 years ago (unless you are Dr Who).
It'll probably not be long before directly human-operable clutches are a
distant memory.
"Not long"? I'm pretty sure I haven't driven a car with a manual clutch
for several decades.
On 19/04/2025 12:40, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtvo7o$sol8$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:52:08 on Sat, 19 Apr
2025, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On a smartphone, you could try www.whatismyelevation.com
Measure your speed, without need for external observation points, in >>>> mph, km/h, knots, m/s or mach.
Thanks for the info.
There seem to be quite a few "speed" apps for mobile phones. All
require "location" turned on, but as far as possible (which is not far
enough...) I have location services turned off on my phone.
You can't turn off the network's cellsite location services, because
they need it to direct calls to the most suitable mast.
True, but its accuracy is quite limited in terms of location, even when >triangulation is used.
On 20 Apr 2025 at 12:13:50 BST, "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
On 19/04/2025 23:32, Fredxx wrote:
On 19/04/2025 18:08, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 17:47:30 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/04/2025 21:10, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2025 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <vtte2g$2ph2f$5@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:24 on Fri, 18 Apr >>>>>>> 2025, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> remarked:
Cars these days are getting too smart for our own good.
Another example is automatic engine shut-off on a collision. There >>>>>>>>> are legitimate reasons why you'd want your car running even after a >>>>>>>>> collision:
1. To remove your car from immediate danger or being a hazard to >>>>>>>>> other road users 2. To keep driving (for example if you are in an >>>>>>>>> isolated area in hazardous weather)
3. A road rage situation
And you can't operate the starter if you're in gear. What if you >>>>>>>> stalled on a level crossing and couldn't get the engine started? Or >>>>>>>> your clutch cable broke?
Clutch cable ?!?
Don't scoff.
I once had one snap on Western Avenue (heading back to Liverpool via >>>>>> Oxford, Stratford and Birmingham), at the MasterBrewer roundabout (this >>>>>> was a Mk 1 Escort, fifty years ago this very year).
The AA patrolman who attended had a Transit van full of spares and >>>>>> supplied and fitted a new cable for about £3.65. I gave him a fiver and >>>>>> told him to keep the change. It was well worth it and £1.35 was a quite >>>>>> reasonable tip in those days).
The clutch cable of *my* Mk I Escort broke. I should have just kept
going rather than calling the AA, as clutchless gear changes were a
cinch on that model. *And* you could start it in gear.
Unless there is some clever interlock, most manuals can be started in
gear.
Mine won't let me start the engine if left in gear.
That was the basis of my remark about stalling on a level crossing.
There is a lot to be said for waiting 20 yards before a level crossing until >there is space the other side, and reaching the actual tracks with as much >momentum as possible.
Ireland has been totally metric since 2005 with a few exceptions
allowed - for example, you can still buy a pint of Guinness.
Ireland has been totally metric since 2005 with a few exceptions
On 27/04/2025 12:59, Martin Harran wrote:
Ireland has been totally metric since 2005 with a few exceptions
Yes, but not in the North.
On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 16:59:52 -0500, JNugent <jnugent73@mail.com>
wrote:
On 18/04/2025 16:56, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 22:48:17 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 18/04/2025 16:28, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 22:23:29 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote: >>>>>
On 18/04/2025 15:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 21:00:41 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/ >>>>>>>>>>AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will know the >>>>>>>>> 'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even in the old days when I
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos - particularly Tesla
ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U regulations ? >>>>>>>>>
designed a rally navigation computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution ( >>>>>>>>> times the rolling circumference) gave very accurate distance >>>>>>>>> measurements - and speed...
Take a drive on a motorway... There are 'marker' posts every 100 Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in Imperial measures.
Only for some purposes!
Those marker posts used to be spaced at 1/10th mile (176 yard)
intervals. I can remember counting them as a fraction of the spacing of >>>>>> the blue telephone boxes (1 mile), from the passenger seat of a van, >>>>>> over fifty years ago. If only we'd had a radio...
In order to be 100 metres apart instead of 176 yards, not only would >>>>>> each have to carry a different mileage number from the original, but the >>>>>> *location* of every one of them all along the motorways built before >>>>>> the craze for metric* would have to have been changed.
The "craze for metric" began 150 years before the M1 was built.
That's odd, because those marker posts were DEFINITELY 176 yards apart. >>>> And certainly NOT 100 metres apart.
And it was a lot less than 150 years before the opening of the first
motorway in the UK (1958, so 1808)
The metric system was adopted in France in 1799. And used quite widely in >>> Europe soon after that.
But not in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, which is
what matters here.
The UK began metrication in the 1960s but, with the usual British
distaste for strange European things, it got implemented in a very
patchy way, sometimes compulsory, sometimes voluntary.
Ireland has been totally metric since 2005 with a few exceptions
allowed - for example, you can still buy a pint of Guinness.
On 2025-04-27 12:59, Martin Harran wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 16:59:52 -0500, JNugent <jnugent73@mail.com>
wrote:
On 18/04/2025 16:56, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 22:48:17 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com>
wrote:
On 18/04/2025 16:28, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 22:23:29 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent73@mail.com>
wrote:
On 18/04/2025 15:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Apr 2025 at 21:00:41 BST, "JNugent"
<jnugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 06:31, TTman wrote:
On 17/04/2025 10:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/17/tesla_faked_odometer_data/ >>>>>>>>>>
Made me wonder how accurate are electronic speedos -
particularly Tesla ones ?
How rigorously are the designs inspected for C&U
regulations ?
AS accurate as can be... sensors for wheel rotation will
know the 'average' rolling circumference of a tyre... Even >>>>>>>>> in the old days when I designed a rally navigation
computer, 1 pulse per wheel revolution ( times the rolling >>>>>>>>> circumference) gave very accurate distance measurements -
and speed... Take a drive on a motorway... There are
'marker' posts every 100 Metres...
Has the spacing been changed from measurement in yards?
My impression was that distance for travel was still in
Imperial measures.
Only for some purposes!
Those marker posts used to be spaced at 1/10th mile (176 yard)
intervals. I can remember counting them as a fraction of the
spacing of the blue telephone boxes (1 mile), from the
passenger seat of a van, over fifty years ago. If only we'd
had a radio...
In order to be 100 metres apart instead of 176 yards, not only
would each have to carry a different mileage number from the
original, but the *location* of every one of them all along
the motorways built before the craze for metric* would have to
have been changed.
The "craze for metric" began 150 years before the M1 was
built.
That's odd, because those marker posts were DEFINITELY 176 yards
apart. And certainly NOT 100 metres apart.
And it was a lot less than 150 years before the opening of the
first motorway in the UK (1958, so 1808)
The metric system was adopted in France in 1799. And used quite
widely in Europe soon after that.
But not in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, which
is what matters here.
The UK began metrication in the 1960s but, with the usual British
distaste for strange European things, it got implemented in a very
patchy way, sometimes compulsory, sometimes voluntary.
Ireland has been totally metric since 2005 with a few exceptions
allowed - for example, you can still buy a pint of Guinness.
I sometimes think (tongue in cheek perhaps) that actually the UK is
already metricated, we have just left a very thin veneer of old units
around the edges to keep the old fogies happy in their belief that it
isn't.
The motorway signs are one example, where the rough measurements for
drivers are all in imperial but the exact measurements for the
technical people are all metric.
Draught beer is sold in pints but look into the production and
taxation side where numbers matter it's all hectolitres; similarly
for milk.
I spent 50 years in engineering and manufacturing and that was almost entirely metric, certainly the core calculations and the drawings; occasionally we had to buy stuff from the USA with alien screw
threads and even the odd technical drawing in inches but they could
be marked up with equivalents.
And of course it's not possible to work entirely in imperial, there
aren't any imperial electrical units for example, so the choice
really is between a clean SI environment and a mish-mash of imperial
and metric.
nib
On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 15:11:24 +0100
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 27/04/2025 12:59, Martin Harran wrote:
Ireland has been totally metric since 2005 with a few exceptions
Yes, but not in the North.
That sounds like a reverse Stephen Potter-ism.
On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 15:11:24 +0100
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 27/04/2025 12:59, Martin Harran wrote:
Ireland has been totally metric since 2005 with a few exceptions
Yes, but not in the North.
That sounds like a reverse Stephen Potter-ism.
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