As part of my family research, I've obtained a copy of the MOD records
for a distant cousin. It includes Army Form 0.1619 which records
particulars of an soldier convicted in a non-military court.
The date of conviction was 29.9.38 at Dumbarton Sh. Sy. Court and the
offence is described as "Lewd etc. pracs.", classed as a felony for
which he received 3 months without hard labour and resulted in him
being discharged from the army.
I'm curious about the offence as described and wondering if "lewd
practices" might have been a euphemism for homosexual behaviour in
those days (1938); I know that Alan Turing's conviction 14 years later
was for "gross indecency".
As part of my family research, I've obtained a copy of the MOD records
for a distant cousin. It includes Army Form 0.1619 which records
particulars of an soldier convicted in a non-military court.
The date of conviction was 29.9.38 at Dumbarton Sh. Sy. Court and the
offence is described as "Lewd etc. pracs.", classed as a felony for
which he received 3 months without hard labour and resulted in him
being discharged from the army.
I'm curious about the offence as described and wondering if "lewd
practices" might have been a euphemism for homosexual behaviour in
those days (1938); I know that Alan Turing's conviction 14 years later
was for "gross indecency".
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1976/67/section/5/enacted
I can't find any older Scottish legislation on the same topic,
On Mon, 5 May 2025 18:28:03 +0100, "billy bookcase" <billy@anon.com>
wrote:
"Martin Harran" <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote in message >>news:8j9h1kpspjuaptbj6rid9et1pf7hv34t3b@4ax.com...
As part of my family research, I've obtained a copy of the MOD records
for a distant cousin. It includes Army Form 0.1619 which records
particulars of an soldier convicted in a non-military court.
The date of conviction was 29.9.38 at Dumbarton Sh. Sy. Court and the
offence is described as "Lewd etc. pracs.", classed as a felony for
which he received 3 months without hard labour and resulted in him
being discharged from the army.
I'm curious about the offence as described and wondering if "lewd
practices" might have been a euphemism for homosexual behaviour in
those days (1938); I know that Alan Turing's conviction 14 years later
was for "gross indecency".
quote:
2. Lewd and libidinous practices are sexual crimes against children committed >>prior to 1 December 2010.
:unquote
https://www.gov.scot/publications/user-guide-recorded-crime-statistics-scotland-2/pages/17/
So child molesting, basically.
Always glad to be of help.
Thanks for that. Now I have to break the news to his niece who asked
me if I could find out anything about him as she'd only found out very recently that he existed; neither her father nor her aunts (brother
and sister of the man in question) had ever mentioned him. I did warn
her that when you are doing family research and opening long-closed cupboards, you have to be prepared for the fact that you have ni idea
what skeletons might lurk inside them.
"Martin Harran" <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote in message news:sdap1kl048vh38vrnn46gao4iaj16m0p7b@4ax.com...
On Mon, 5 May 2025 18:28:03 +0100, "billy bookcase" <billy@anon.com>
wrote:
"Martin Harran" <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8j9h1kpspjuaptbj6rid9et1pf7hv34t3b@4ax.com...
As part of my family research, I've obtained a copy of the MOD records >>>> for a distant cousin. It includes Army Form 0.1619 which records
particulars of an soldier convicted in a non-military court.
The date of conviction was 29.9.38 at Dumbarton Sh. Sy. Court and the
offence is described as "Lewd etc. pracs.", classed as a felony for
which he received 3 months without hard labour and resulted in him
being discharged from the army.
I'm curious about the offence as described and wondering if "lewd
practices" might have been a euphemism for homosexual behaviour in
those days (1938); I know that Alan Turing's conviction 14 years later >>>> was for "gross indecency".
quote:
2. Lewd and libidinous practices are sexual crimes against children committed
prior to 1 December 2010.
:unquote
https://www.gov.scot/publications/user-guide-recorded-crime-statistics-scotland-2/pages/17/
So child molesting, basically.
Always glad to be of help.
Thanks for that. Now I have to break the news to his niece who asked
me if I could find out anything about him as she'd only found out very
recently that he existed; neither her father nor her aunts (brother
and sister of the man in question) had ever mentioned him. I did warn
her that when you are doing family research and opening long-closed
cupboards, you have to be prepared for the fact that you have ni idea
what skeletons might lurk inside them.
Nevertheless, the possibility does exist that he was wrongly convicted. Possibly as a result of a perfectly innocent action being wholly misinterpreted, or for some other reason. So that the need for "further research" might be cited as a reason for delaying any definitive conclusion, for the time being at least.
bb
On 05/05/2025 12:52, Martin Harran wrote:
As part of my family research, I've obtained a copy of the MOD records
for a distant cousin. It includes Army Form 0.1619 which records
particulars of an soldier convicted in a non-military court.
How did you obtain the MOD records? I would like to trace my dad, who
was in the army during the late 50's/early 60's. I don't know whether
he knew I existed but all I know is he was born in Scotland, possibly
between 1935 - 1940 ish. He may well be dead now, I have no idea.
My mum told me when I was 25, and that she wrote to him to let him know
but never heard back. The man who she married is the one named on my
birth cetificate, but they split up when i was very young.
On 15/05/2025 14:03, John wrote:
On 05/05/2025 12:52, Martin Harran wrote:
As part of my family research, I've obtained a copy of the MOD records
for a distant cousin. It includes Army Form 0.1619 which records
particulars of an soldier convicted in a non-military court.
How did you obtain the MOD records? I would like to trace my dad, who
was in the army during the late 50's/early 60's. I don't know whether
he knew I existed but all I know is he was born in Scotland, possibly
between 1935 - 1940 ish. He may well be dead now, I have no idea.
My mum told me when I was 25, and that she wrote to him to let him
know but never heard back. The man who she married is the one named on
my birth cetificate, but they split up when i was very young.
here you go, I've done this with some deceased relatives.
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-records-of-service
If its much futher back the records end up at the British Library or the National Archive.
On Thu, 15 May 2025 14:03:35 +0100, John <megane.06@gmail.com> wrote:
On 05/05/2025 12:52, Martin Harran wrote:
As part of my family research, I've obtained a copy of the MOD records
for a distant cousin. It includes Army Form 0.1619 which records
particulars of an soldier convicted in a non-military court.
How did you obtain the MOD records? I would like to trace my dad, who
was in the army during the late 50's/early 60's. I don't know whether
he knew I existed but all I know is he was born in Scotland, possibly
between 1935 - 1940 ish. He may well be dead now, I have no idea.
My mum told me when I was 25, and that she wrote to him to let him know
but never heard back. The man who she married is the one named on my
birth cetificate, but they split up when i was very young.
I replied to this at the time but I am having problems with some of my
posts not making it to UKLM. I realise SH has helped out but here's my original reply anyway:
Start here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
It's a two step-process as the MOD have to check whether they have the records or whether they have been transferred to the National Archive,
in which case they will give you a link with a reference number for
the person.
AFIUI, you can only get records for yourself or for a deceased person.
If it is a deceased person, you have to produce evidence of death
unless they were born over 116 years ago. I'm not sure if there some
way around that in your situation.
There is a fee for the records, from memory I think it was £25 or
something like that but you do get a lot of stuff for it incluing
their declared next-of-kin which might be of interest to you.
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