I recently reported an issue with National Express and am not
satisfied with their response so I'm looking at their Alternative
dispute resolution and it doesn't make much sense to me.

Refer: https://www.nationalexpress.com/en/help/conditions-of-carriage
See 13.2

<quote>Alternative dispute resolution is a process where an
independent body considers the facts of a dispute and seeks to resolve
it, without you having to go to court.

If you are not happy with how we have handled your complaint once we
have completed our internal complaint process, we are obliged to
inform you of an approved alternative dispute resolution entity which
is competent to deal with your complaint. For these purposes, we refer
you to the Ombudsman Services of The Brew House, Wilderspool Park,
Warrington, WA4 6HL (the “ADR Entity”). However, and in accordance
with our rights, we will not submit to an alternative dispute
resolution procedure operated by the ADR Entity.

If your complaint relates to any of our Services (other than our
European Services referred to in the paragraph below), you may also
want to contact Bus Users UK, who can independently review your case.
Bus Users UK’s contact details are: Address - Cobalt Square, 83 Hagley
Road, Birmingham B16 8QG, Email address - enquiries@bususers.org and
website - www.bususers.org. Depending on the facts of your case, we
may or may not have regard to any process followed by, or
recommendations of, Bus Users UK.</quote>

So basically I can go to either or both of the above and National
Express can simply ignore their recommendations. Have I interpreted
this correctly?


--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

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On 27/05/2025 19:06, AnthonyL wrote:

I recently reported an issue with National Express and am not
satisfied with their response so I'm looking at their Alternative
dispute resolution and it doesn't make much sense to me.

Refer: https://www.nationalexpress.com/en/help/conditions-of-carriage
See 13.2

<quote>Alternative dispute resolution is a process where an
independent body considers the facts of a dispute and seeks to resolve
it, without you having to go to court.

If you are not happy with how we have handled your complaint once we
have completed our internal complaint process, we are obliged to
inform you of an approved alternative dispute resolution entity which
is competent to deal with your complaint. For these purposes, we refer
you to the Ombudsman Services ...

With my recent experiences with Ombudsmen, I wish you luck.

The Financial Ombudsman told me that they couldn't intervene in issues involving NS&I.

In a different case the Parliamentary Ombudsman told me they couldn't
intervene in any case that might still be taken to the courts.

Chocolate Teapots come to mind.
--
PA
--

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On 2025-05-27, AnthonyL <nospam@please.invalid> wrote:

I recently reported an issue with National Express and am not
satisfied with their response so I'm looking at their Alternative
dispute resolution and it doesn't make much sense to me.

Refer: https://www.nationalexpress.com/en/help/conditions-of-carriage
See 13.2

<quote>Alternative dispute resolution is a process where an
independent body considers the facts of a dispute and seeks to resolve
it, without you having to go to court.

If you are not happy with how we have handled your complaint once we
have completed our internal complaint process, we are obliged to
inform you of an approved alternative dispute resolution entity which
is competent to deal with your complaint. For these purposes, we refer
you to the Ombudsman Services of The Brew House, Wilderspool Park, Warrington, WA4 6HL (the “ADR Entity”). However, and in accordance
with our rights, we will not submit to an alternative dispute
resolution procedure operated by the ADR Entity.

If your complaint relates to any of our Services (other than our
European Services referred to in the paragraph below), you may also
want to contact Bus Users UK, who can independently review your case.
Bus Users UKÂ’s contact details are: Address - Cobalt Square, 83 Hagley
Road, Birmingham B16 8QG, Email address - enquiries@bususers.org and
website - www.bususers.org. Depending on the facts of your case, we
may or may not have regard to any process followed by, or
recommendations of, Bus Users UK.</quote>

So basically I can go to either or both of the above and National
Express can simply ignore their recommendations. Have I interpreted
this correctly?

It sounds like this is the requirement under The Alternative Dispute
Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015 s19(1) for the company to provide information about Alternative Dispute Resolution. But it would appear that, although they
are obliged to tell you about ADR, they're not obliged to actually take
part in it or pay any attention to it.

Yes that seems stupid. I guess that either the intention behind the
legislation was to nudge companies towards ADR without actually forcing
it on them. Either that, or the current situation is a result of Brexit partially but not totally rescinding the EU regulations.

Incidentally, the reference to "Bus Users UK" would appear to be due
to The Rights of Passengers in Bus and Coach Transport (Exemptions and Enforcement) Regulations 2013 s9(1), which specifies that charity as
the "designated complaints body" for the purposes of EU Regulation
181/2011, Article 28(3).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1865 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/542/part/4/made https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2011/181

Of course none of this means you can't sue under simple contract law
if the bus company has breached the terms of the ticket contract
somehow. It's possible you may also be able to make a complaint to
the Office of the Traffic Commissioner, but my guess would be that
they wouldn't get involved unless the operator was systematically
breaching the terms of their operating licence.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/traffic-commissioners/about/access-and-opening

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On Tue, 27 May 2025 18:06:07 GMT, nospam@please.invalid (AnthonyL) wrote:

I recently reported an issue with National Express

Was your life in a mess? Or did you find it hard to get by?

Mark

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On 27 May 2025 at 21:11:51 BST, "Martin Harran" <martinharran@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 27 May 2025 18:06:07 GMT, nospam@please.invalid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

I recently reported an issue with National Express and am not
satisfied with their response so I'm looking at their Alternative
dispute resolution and it doesn't make much sense to me.

Refer: https://www.nationalexpress.com/en/help/conditions-of-carriage
See 13.2

<quote>Alternative dispute resolution is a process where an
independent body considers the facts of a dispute and seeks to resolve
it, without you having to go to court.

If you are not happy with how we have handled your complaint once we
have completed our internal complaint process, we are obliged to
inform you of an approved alternative dispute resolution entity which
is competent to deal with your complaint. For these purposes, we refer
you to the Ombudsman Services of The Brew House, Wilderspool Park,
Warrington, WA4 6HL (the ?DR Entity?. However, and in accordance
with our rights, we will not submit to an alternative dispute
resolution procedure operated by the ADR Entity.

If your complaint relates to any of our Services (other than our
European Services referred to in the paragraph below), you may also
want to contact Bus Users UK, who can independently review your case.
Bus Users UK? contact details are: Address - Cobalt Square, 83 Hagley
Road, Birmingham B16 8QG, Email address - enquiries@bususers.org and
website - www.bususers.org. Depending on the facts of your case, we
may or may not have regard to any process followed by, or
recommendations of, Bus Users UK.</quote>

So basically I can go to either or both of the above and National
Express can simply ignore their recommendations. Have I interpreted
this correctly?

Even though they are not *obligated* to accept the recommendations of
either of those bodies, they can still opt to do so. If either of
those bodies were to examine the dispute and come out on your side,
the company would perhaps think twice about engaging in any potential
legal action with you and/or prefer to avoid adverse publicity your
case might generate.

That doesn't apply to the ADR organisation as it could not hear the case at
all because the bus company have said they would not engage with it. It could apply to Bus Users UK.

--

Roger Hayter

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On 2025-05-27, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:

On Tue, 27 May 2025 18:06:07 GMT, nospam@please.invalid (AnthonyL) wrote:

I recently reported an issue with National Express

Was your life in a mess? Or did you find it hard to get by?

Was the issue with the provided drinks, or unwanted theatrical winks?

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