Ukrainians probably resent the costs of feeding and sheltering their
invaders (POWs), but OTOH a lot of the Russian army consists of
conscripts who are misused by the career officers.

Could Ukraine offer a voluntary "catch and release" programme, under
which POWs identified as conscripts could be released back to civlian
life in Russia but only if they agreed to sign something along the
following lines:

"In exchange for being released now, I agree that Ukraine may retain
my fingerprints and other identifying information indefinitely, and I
waive my rights under the laws of war in perpetuity and agree that if
Ukraine captures me again, they may execute me immediately upon
identification and destroy my body and personal effects."

What if it also required them to receive a tattoo identifying them as
released POWs? (The official purpose of this would be to make
indentification faster, but the real goal would be to contribute to demoralizing the Russian population with regard to the invasion and
their government.)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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"Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote in message news:r3alhlxri1.ln2@news.ducksburg.com...

Ukrainians probably resent the costs of feeding and sheltering their
invaders (POWs), but OTOH a lot of the Russian army consists of
conscripts who are misused by the career officers.

Could Ukraine offer a voluntary "catch and release" programme, under
which POWs identified as conscripts

* could be released back to civlian life in Russia*

but only if they agreed to sign something along the
following lines:

"In exchange for being released now, I agree that Ukraine may retain
my fingerprints and other identifying information indefinitely, and I
waive my rights under the laws of war in perpetuity and agree that if
Ukraine captures me again, they may execute me immediately upon identification and destroy my body and personal effects."

What if it also required them to receive a tattoo identifying them as released POWs? (The official purpose of this would be to make
indentification faster, but the real goal would be to contribute to demoralizing the Russian population with regard to the invasion and
their government.)

But why would Russia ever agree to this ? ESpecially given the
tattoos. Wouldn't they just send them all back ?

More especially if they have spies reading this NG; who will undoubredly
tip them off


bb





--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2025-06-10, billy bookcase wrote:

"Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote in message news:r3alhlxri1.ln2@news.ducksburg.com...

Ukrainians probably resent the costs of feeding and sheltering their
invaders (POWs), but OTOH a lot of the Russian army consists of
conscripts who are misused by the career officers.

Could Ukraine offer a voluntary "catch and release" programme, under
which POWs identified as conscripts

* could be released back to civlian life in Russia*

but only if they agreed to sign something along the
following lines:

"In exchange for being released now, I agree that Ukraine may retain
my fingerprints and other identifying information indefinitely, and I
waive my rights under the laws of war in perpetuity and agree that if
Ukraine captures me again, they may execute me immediately upon
identification and destroy my body and personal effects."

What if it also required them to receive a tattoo identifying them as
released POWs? (The official purpose of this would be to make
indentification faster, but the real goal would be to contribute to
demoralizing the Russian population with regard to the invasion and
their government.)

But why would Russia ever agree to this ? ESpecially given the
tattoos. Wouldn't they just send them all back ?

I meant that it could be offered to *individual* POWs (Russian
soldiers captured by Ukraine) --- with no involvement of the Russian government.

More especially if they have spies reading this NG; who will undoubredly
tip them off

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Adam Funk <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote:

On 2025-06-10, billy bookcase wrote:

"Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote in message news:r3alhlxri1.ln2@news.ducksburg.com...

Ukrainians probably resent the costs of feeding and sheltering their
invaders (POWs), but OTOH a lot of the Russian army consists of
conscripts who are misused by the career officers.

Could Ukraine offer a voluntary "catch and release" programme, under
which POWs identified as conscripts

* could be released back to civlian life in Russia*

but only if they agreed to sign something along the
following lines:

"In exchange for being released now, I agree that Ukraine may retain
my fingerprints and other identifying information indefinitely, and I
waive my rights under the laws of war in perpetuity and agree that if
Ukraine captures me again, they may execute me immediately upon
identification and destroy my body and personal effects."

What if it also required them to receive a tattoo identifying them as
released POWs? (The official purpose of this would be to make
indentification faster, but the real goal would be to contribute to
demoralizing the Russian population with regard to the invasion and
their government.)

But why would Russia ever agree to this ? ESpecially given the
tattoos. Wouldn't they just send them all back ?

I meant that it could be offered to *individual* POWs (Russian
soldiers captured by Ukraine) --- with no involvement of the Russian government.

Would that matter? Ukraine chucks them back over the border into Russia, Russia catches them and sends them back to the front line to continue to be cannon fodder. They would effectively be Russia deserters, especially with
the tattoo as a way to identify them. They're more useful to Russia as
cannon fodder than if Russia were to shoot them as deserters. A few
deserters might escape, but trying to evade capture with the army trying to catch you is no easy feat.

It would only work if there was a way to exfiltrate them from the conflict
with no easy way to get back - send them to a Ukrainian version of St Helena
or Botany Bay. But all of those are now taken, and no country would want
them.

Theo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/06/2025 11:40, Adam Funk wrote:

I meant that it could be offered to *individual* POWs (Russian
soldiers captured by Ukraine) --- with no involvement of the Russian government.

The individuals wouldn't have any choice. Once in Russia, they'd be sent
back to the front to fight again. There, they'd fight tooth and nail,
knowing that they'd be executed if captured.

Nice try, but absolutely no cigars.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote in message news:7lelhlxv98.ln2@news.ducksburg.com...

On 2025-06-10, billy bookcase wrote:

"Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote in message
news:r3alhlxri1.ln2@news.ducksburg.com...

Ukrainians probably resent the costs of feeding and sheltering their
invaders (POWs), but OTOH a lot of the Russian army consists of
conscripts who are misused by the career officers.

Could Ukraine offer a voluntary "catch and release" programme, under
which POWs identified as conscripts

* could be released back to civlian life in Russia*

but only if they agreed to sign something along the
following lines:

"In exchange for being released now, I agree that Ukraine may retain
my fingerprints and other identifying information indefinitely, and I
waive my rights under the laws of war in perpetuity and agree that if
Ukraine captures me again, they may execute me immediately upon
identification and destroy my body and personal effects."

What if it also required them to receive a tattoo identifying them as
released POWs? (The official purpose of this would be to make
indentification faster, but the real goal would be to contribute to
demoralizing the Russian population with regard to the invasion and
their government.)

But why would Russia ever agree to this ? ESpecially given the
tattoos. Wouldn't they just send them all back ?

I meant that it could be offered to *individual* POWs (Russian
soldiers captured by Ukraine) --- with no involvement of the Russian government.

Yes but what happens when they go back to Russia, and apply for a
job ?

Presumably like everywhere else, they'd need paperwork of some kind ?

Also, I somehow suspect you rather understimate the sheer patriotism
of the Russian people; their love of their country; and their support
for Putin. Who can be easily seen as standing up for Russia in the face
of a Western financed political, takeover of Ukraine.

The Russian people don't need long memories to remember how the
West effectively raped their country, by financing oligarchs
to buy up all their resources. As they are doubtless also
aware that little Zelensky always was, and still is, a front man
for pro Western Oligarchs hoping to achieve permanent political
power in Ukraine, at Russia's expense.

As if Russia should ever have any say in the governments of
bordering states, as compared with cash rich western bankers.
The very cheek of it !


Of course this can always be represented as simply Pro Russian
propaganda sponsored by the most evil man on Earth; who
is seemingly intent on reaching the English Channel in a matter
of weeks; if not months. (Latest estimate 5 years) Unless
we prepare ourselves by paying billions of squids to arms
manufacturers. Which might of course mean jobs, I suppose.


bb

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/06/2025 11:40 AM, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2025-06-10, billy bookcase wrote:

"Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote:

Ukrainians probably resent the costs of feeding and sheltering their
invaders (POWs), but OTOH a lot of the Russian army consists of
conscripts who are misused by the career officers.

Could Ukraine offer a voluntary "catch and release" programme, under
which POWs identified as conscripts

* could be released back to civlian life in Russia*

but only if they agreed to sign something along the
following lines:

"In exchange for being released now, I agree that Ukraine may retain
my fingerprints and other identifying information indefinitely, and I
waive my rights under the laws of war in perpetuity and agree that if
Ukraine captures me again, they may execute me immediately upon
identification and destroy my body and personal effects."

What if it also required them to receive a tattoo identifying them as
released POWs? (The official purpose of this would be to make
indentification faster, but the real goal would be to contribute to
demoralizing the Russian population with regard to the invasion and
their government.)

But why would Russia ever agree to this ? ESpecially given the
tattoos. Wouldn't they just send them all back ?

I meant that it could be offered to *individual* POWs (Russian
soldiers captured by Ukraine) --- with no involvement of the Russian government.

There are internationally recognised rules about how POWs must be
treated. Tattooing and the suggested document would not comply with them.

I'm trying to think of a previous time when tattooing of wartime
prisoners was done...

It's on the tip of my tongue...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 10:22:35 +0100, Adam Funk <a24061a@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

Ukrainians probably resent the costs of feeding and sheltering their
invaders (POWs), but OTOH a lot of the Russian army consists of
conscripts who are misused by the career officers.

Could Ukraine offer a voluntary "catch and release" programme, under
which POWs identified as conscripts could be released back to civlian
life in Russia but only if they agreed to sign something along the
following lines:

"In exchange for being released now, I agree that Ukraine may retain
my fingerprints and other identifying information indefinitely, and I
waive my rights under the laws of war in perpetuity and agree that if
Ukraine captures me again, they may execute me immediately upon >identification and destroy my body and personal effects."

What if it also required them to receive a tattoo identifying them as >released POWs? (The official purpose of this would be to make
indentification faster, but the real goal would be to contribute to >demoralizing the Russian population with regard to the invasion and
their government.)

I am naive enough to think that war is played by the rules of chess:
once a piece is taken off the board it can't be played again. I'm sure
others can help me here but I can't think of a single recent war -
apart from the one we are now talking about - where prisoners were
exchanged before the end of hostilities. Wonderful stories about "our
chaps"[1] escaping and making their way back home to fight again but
precious few about released prisoners doing the same.

Surely there must be an agreement that released prisoners cannot be
returned to the front line otherwise there's be a mass of returned
soldiers going back to the front line and maybe tipping the balance in
the continuing conflict.

If there is no such agreement then surely keeping and feeding your
POWs is a small price to pay for not bolstering the enemy numbers -
whichever side you are on.

Nick
[1]Please read "our chaps" to mean whoever you support

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:

I am naive enough to think that war is played by the rules of chess:
once a piece is taken off the board it can't be played again. I'm sure
others can help me here but I can't think of a single recent war -
apart from the one we are now talking about - where prisoners were
exchanged before the end of hostilities. Wonderful stories about "our chaps"[1] escaping and making their way back home to fight again but
precious few about released prisoners doing the same.

Surely there must be an agreement that released prisoners cannot be
returned to the front line otherwise there's be a mass of returned
soldiers going back to the front line and maybe tipping the balance in
the continuing conflict.

If there is no such agreement then surely keeping and feeding your
POWs is a small price to pay for not bolstering the enemy numbers -
whichever side you are on.

One reason to exchange is for injured prisoners. If they are sufficiently disabled to no longer be combatants, there's no advantage to the enemy
holding them - they're just a cost. If you exchange them for injured
prisoners of your own you don't have any fewer injured people but, being
from your own side, you don't need to hold them in a secure environment -
and releasing them back to their families is likely to be cheaper (and more humanitarian) than holding enemy injured in a secure camp or hospital.

Theo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2025-06-10, GB wrote:

On 10/06/2025 11:40, Adam Funk wrote:

I meant that it could be offered to *individual* POWs (Russian
soldiers captured by Ukraine) --- with no involvement of the Russian
government.

The individuals wouldn't have any choice. Once in Russia, they'd be sent
back to the front to fight again. There, they'd fight tooth and nail,
knowing that they'd be executed if captured.

Fair point. Or it might encourage some of them to desert, or even
better, to shoot their officers in the back then desert.

Nice try, but absolutely no cigars.

What I'm curious about is this --- would it be a war crime to shoot
captives *if they have already voluntarily waived their rights under
the laws of war*?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Adam Funk <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote:

On 2025-06-10, GB wrote:

On 10/06/2025 11:40, Adam Funk wrote:

I meant that it could be offered to *individual* POWs (Russian
soldiers captured by Ukraine) --- with no involvement of the Russian
government.

The individuals wouldn't have any choice. Once in Russia, they'd be sent back to the front to fight again. There, they'd fight tooth and nail, knowing that they'd be executed if captured.

Fair point. Or it might encourage some of them to desert, or even
better, to shoot their officers in the back then desert.

Nice try, but absolutely no cigars.

What I'm curious about is this --- would it be a war crime to shoot
captives *if they have already voluntarily waived their rights under
the laws of war*?

Is there such a thing? As a combatant you already have a lot of free will taken away from you. 'Voluntarily' choosing one of the two options offered
to you isn't free choice. Particularly if those options involve grave consequences for you - it feels like just a different version of duress to
me.

If you asked somebody whether they wanted hanging or firing squad, the
choice might be free but the killing would still be unlawful.

Theo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/06/2025 16:46, Theo wrote:

It would only work if there was a way to exfiltrate them from the conflict with no easy way to get back - send them to a Ukrainian version of St Helena or Botany Bay. But all of those are now taken, and no country would want them.

Rwanda might, given suitable payment...

Andy

--
Do not listen to rumour, but, if you do, do not believe it.
Ghandi.

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