Following the discussion in another thread about cars without tax
and/or MOT and/or insurance, I checked the two relevant websites and
noticed something curious.

AFAICT the gov.uk pages for checking VED, MOT, and even MOT history
(with quite a lot of detail, including mileage and failures at each
test) do not indicate any restrictions on checking other people's
vehicles.

<https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/>
<https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history>


The MID page, OTOH, has several options.
<https://www.askmid.com/>

"Personal check" says

Legal conditions

You can only check insurance information if you live in the United
Kingdom and:

the vehicle is registered, owned or insured by you or your employer;
you're allowed to drive it;
or, you're an Insurance Broker or Agent acting on behalf of your client.

It's an offence to check a vehicle if the reasons above do not apply to you.

"Accident?" check the other vehicle has a £10 enquiry charge (or
£74/year for qualifying organizations), with this condition:

I confirm that I am a person or body corporate resident in the
United Kingdom claiming to be entitled to compensation in respect
of any loss or injury resulting from an accident caused by or
arising out of the use of the above UK vehicle within the last
seven years. I understand that it is an offence to wrongfully
obtain information of this nature without reasonable cause and if
I fail to provide true reasons for requiring information I may be
committing an offence of unlawfully obtaining data contrary to
section 170 of the Data Protection Act 2018. I also hereby confirm
that the information provided will not be used for any purposes
unrelated to the purposes of this enquiry. I agree that my receipt
of such information will be subject to the Terms of Use as stated
on this website.

I find it surprising that you can, just for fun or curiosity, get the
mileage records and detailed MOT results for someone else's car ---
but not check the insurance. Is the only reason for this that askMID
is run by a private consortium that wants to make sure they get the
fees for the service?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Adam Funk <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote:

I find it surprising that you can, just for fun or curiosity, get the
mileage records and detailed MOT results for someone else's car ---
but not check the insurance. Is the only reason for this that askMID
is run by a private consortium that wants to make sure they get the
fees for the service?

You used to have to assert that the car was yours or you had an interest in
it (eg were interested in buying it) but I think they removed that check because it was unenforceable - if you said yes at no point would anyone
verify it. Perhaps AskMID started off with the same check but hasn't
removed it?

(vehicle data like MOT results are not personal data - things which are,
like the name of the garage doing the MOTs, are redacted)

Theo

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On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:14:45 +0100, Theo wrote:

(vehicle data like MOT results are not personal data - things which are,
like the name of the garage doing the MOTs, are redacted)

Hang on.

In a very recent thread : "CCTV + ANPR = GDPR ?" it was asserted that registration numbers (unarguably "vehicle data") was personal data. And
as such any plans to log cars passing the entrance to our cul-de-sac
would require GDPR twiddles.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2025-06-24, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:14:45 +0100, Theo wrote:

(vehicle data like MOT results are not personal data - things which are,
like the name of the garage doing the MOTs, are redacted)

Hang on.

In a very recent thread : "CCTV + ANPR = GDPR ?" it was asserted that registration numbers (unarguably "vehicle data") was personal data. And
as such any plans to log cars passing the entrance to our cul-de-sac
would require GDPR twiddles.

I guess you are implying that you see a contradiction. What is it?

If you're looking up a vehicle registration number on this web site
then by definition you already know it, the site isn't telling you it.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 24/06/2025 13:01, Jethro_uk wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:14:45 +0100, Theo wrote:

(vehicle data like MOT results are not personal data - things which are,
like the name of the garage doing the MOTs, are redacted)

Hang on.

In a very recent thread : "CCTV + ANPR = GDPR ?" it was asserted that registration numbers (unarguably "vehicle data") was personal data. And
as such any plans to log cars passing the entrance to our cul-de-sac
would require GDPR twiddles.

The DVLA lookup tells you if and when the vehicle is taxed and MOT'd and
you can access the MOT history. It doesn't tell you who keeps it or
where. Of course, the MOT history is useful to know if buying second hand.

--
Cheers
Clive

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:08:27 +0000, Jon Ribbens wrote:

On 2025-06-24, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:14:45 +0100, Theo wrote:

(vehicle data like MOT results are not personal data - things which
are,
like the name of the garage doing the MOTs, are redacted)

Hang on.

In a very recent thread : "CCTV + ANPR = GDPR ?" it was asserted that
registration numbers (unarguably "vehicle data") was personal data. And
as such any plans to log cars passing the entrance to our cul-de-sac
would require GDPR twiddles.

I guess you are implying that you see a contradiction. What is it?

If you're looking up a vehicle registration number on this web site then
by definition you already know it, the site isn't telling you it.

But if you catch a number plate on CCTV, you already "know" it. It's not
like you are plugging random guesses into your system.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 13:52:55 +0100, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 24/06/2025 13:01, Jethro_uk wrote:

[quoted text muted]

The DVLA lookup tells you if and when the vehicle is taxed and MOT'd and
you can access the MOT history. It doesn't tell you who keeps it or
where. Of course, the MOT history is useful to know if buying second
hand.

Not quite sure what your point is ?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 24/06/2025 15:04, Jethro_uk wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 13:52:55 +0100, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 24/06/2025 13:01, Jethro_uk wrote:

[quoted text muted]

The DVLA lookup tells you if and when the vehicle is taxed and MOT'd and
you can access the MOT history. It doesn't tell you who keeps it or
where. Of course, the MOT history is useful to know if buying second
hand.

Not quite sure what your point is ?

Just being helpful in case there were some who thought you could find
out the who and where.

--
Cheers
Clive

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:14:45 +0100, Theo wrote:

(vehicle data like MOT results are not personal data - things which are, like the name of the garage doing the MOTs, are redacted)

Hang on.

In a very recent thread : "CCTV + ANPR = GDPR ?" it was asserted that registration numbers (unarguably "vehicle data") was personal data. And
as such any plans to log cars passing the entrance to our cul-de-sac
would require GDPR twiddles.

A registration number of itself isn't personal data.
The make and colour of that car isn't.
How rusty it is isn't either.

But when you start associating the vehicle with a location and/or a time
then it potentially is. eg if you record a hearse parked outside a house, certain implications can be drawn, or if a specific car is habitually parked overnight outside someone's house on certain days of the week. That enables 'traffic analysis' that can reveal personal behaviour.

Theo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 17:26:15 +0100, Theo wrote:

Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:14:45 +0100, Theo wrote:

(vehicle data like MOT results are not personal data - things which
are,
like the name of the garage doing the MOTs, are redacted)

Hang on.

In a very recent thread : "CCTV + ANPR = GDPR ?" it was asserted that
registration numbers (unarguably "vehicle data") was personal data. And
as such any plans to log cars passing the entrance to our cul-de-sac
would require GDPR twiddles.

A registration number of itself isn't personal data.
The make and colour of that car isn't.
How rusty it is isn't either.

But when you start associating the vehicle with a location and/or a time
then it potentially is. eg if you record a hearse parked outside a
house, certain implications can be drawn, or if a specific car is
habitually parked overnight outside someone's house on certain days of
the week. That enables 'traffic analysis' that can reveal personal behaviour.

The dirty truth is no data is anonymous if you have a pair of data sets.

Anyway, 'tis better to seek forgiveness than permission. And in England
where illegal evidence is allowed in court, I would take my chances.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2025-06-24, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:08:27 +0000, Jon Ribbens wrote:

On 2025-06-24, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:14:45 +0100, Theo wrote:

(vehicle data like MOT results are not personal data - things which
are, like the name of the garage doing the MOTs, are redacted)

Hang on.

In a very recent thread : "CCTV + ANPR = GDPR ?" it was asserted that
registration numbers (unarguably "vehicle data") was personal data. And
as such any plans to log cars passing the entrance to our cul-de-sac
would require GDPR twiddles.

I guess you are implying that you see a contradiction. What is it?

If you're looking up a vehicle registration number on this web site then
by definition you already know it, the site isn't telling you it.

But if you catch a number plate on CCTV, you already "know" it.

You didn't know it before you saw it on the CCTV.

It's not like you are plugging random guesses into your system.

You are storing and processing the data, if you set up a CCTV system.

The web site also stores and processes data, and unless you are
suggesting that they have not considered the GDPR and taken the
appropriate actions to ensure that the processing is compliant,
there is no contradiction I can see here.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-06-24, Theo wrote:

Adam Funk <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote:

I find it surprising that you can, just for fun or curiosity, get the
mileage records and detailed MOT results for someone else's car ---
but not check the insurance. Is the only reason for this that askMID
is run by a private consortium that wants to make sure they get the
fees for the service?

You used to have to assert that the car was yours or you had an interest in it (eg were interested in buying it) but I think they removed that check because it was unenforceable - if you said yes at no point would anyone verify it. Perhaps AskMID started off with the same check but hasn't
removed it?

I doubt they have any means of verifying, although if several requests
for different numbers come from the same IP address in the same day,
their software might flag it.

But they still have the paid option for checking others' vehicles,
although it looks like you have to give a reason (I don't know how
much effort they put into validating it).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Adam Funk <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote:

On 2025-06-24, Theo wrote:

Adam Funk <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote:

I find it surprising that you can, just for fun or curiosity, get the
mileage records and detailed MOT results for someone else's car ---
but not check the insurance. Is the only reason for this that askMID
is run by a private consortium that wants to make sure they get the
fees for the service?

You used to have to assert that the car was yours or you had an interest in it (eg were interested in buying it) but I think they removed that check because it was unenforceable - if you said yes at no point would anyone verify it. Perhaps AskMID started off with the same check but hasn't removed it?

I doubt they have any means of verifying, although if several requests
for different numbers come from the same IP address in the same day,
their software might flag it.

But they still have the paid option for checking others' vehicles,
although it looks like you have to give a reason (I don't know how
much effort they put into validating it).

They're different things. The 'own vehicle' just says red/green whether you have insurance or not. The paid option tells you who the insurer is, which
is useful if you wish to contact or sue them. The red/green check wouldn't
be very helpful in that case.

Theo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Wed, 02 Jul 2025 17:13:55 +0100, Theo wrote:

Adam Funk <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote:

[quoted text muted]

They're different things. The 'own vehicle' just says red/green whether
you have insurance or not. The paid option tells you who the insurer is, which is useful if you wish to contact or sue them.

Except if you go direct to the insurance company, they won't do anything
if their insured chooses not to report the incident.

Which can lead to some amusing outcomes when said insured then goes on to
lie about "have you ever been involved in an accident" for their next
renewal.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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