The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen90 days out of a rolling 180 day period, I believe, which applies both ways.
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese,
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese, and he can only live 3 months in the UK. Apparently the
only way to get a residence visa is if you can bring 500K into either >country. This seems very restrictive, does this affect everyone who
marries a foreigner now in the UK and the EU?
miked wrote:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen90 days out of a rolling 180 day period, I believe, which applies both ways.
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese,
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese, and he can only live 3 months in the UK. Apparently the
only way to get a residence visa is if you can bring 500K into either country. This seems very restrictive, does this affect everyone who
marries a foreigner now in the UK and the EU?
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese, and he can only live 3 months in the UK.
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese, and he can only live 3 months in the UK. Apparently the
only way to get a residence visa is if you can bring 500K into either country. This seems very restrictive, does this affect everyone who
marries a foreigner now in the UK and the EU?
mike
I think I'd want a second opinion on that "officially"
bit.
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 16:02:32 +0000, dmike2004@gmail.com (miked) wrote:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizenSpousal visas for the UK are expensive (I couldn't afford one) but not
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese, and he can only live 3 months in the UK. Apparently the
only way to get a residence visa is if you can bring 500K into either >>country. This seems very restrictive, does this affect everyone who
marries a foreigner now in the UK and the EU?
that expensive. I think I'd want a second opinion on that "officially"
bit.
Nick Odell wrote:
I think I'd want a second opinion on that "officially"
bit.
Bear in mind that once the EU entry/exit system finally goes live
(october)
enforcement of the 90 days is likely to get much hotter.
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese, and he can only live 3 months in the UK. Apparently the
only way to get a residence visa is if you can bring 500K into either country. This seems very restrictive, does this affect everyone who
marries a foreigner now in the UK and the EU?
According to miked <dmike2004@gmail.com>:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese, and he can only live 3 months in the UK.
Someone has given her terrible advice. The 90 day limit is for random visitors.
If she is the spouse of an EU citizen, she should be able to apply for a Portuguese residency visa which I believe is good for 90 days during which she
applies for a permanent residency permit.
More badly organized info here:
https://vistos.mne.gov.pt/en/national-visas/necessary-documentation/residency
FWIW, my daughter is a US citizen and when her Greek-American husband got a job
in Germany, as the spouse of an EU citizen, she had no trouble getting a visa that let her stay indefinitely in Germany.
Andy Burns wrote:I don't know, I had intended to insert a question mark after october.
Bear in mind that once the EU entry/exit system finally goes live
(october)
Do you really think it will, after what happened last year?
This website has this:
"The visa application for family reunification must be submitted within
90 days. The failure to submit the application for the issuance of a residence visa within this period implies the forfeiture of the decision
to recognize the right to family reunification.
Notice:
This type of visa is intended exclusively for family members of foreign citizens legally residing in Portugal, after authorization of the family reunification request presented by their legally resident family member
by AIMA - Agency for Integration, Migrations and Asylum.
It is _not_ intended for family members of EU/EEA and Swiss/and UK
citizens under the Withdrawal Agreement, nor for those who wish to
accompany their family member and simultaneously apply for a visa in
their country of origin."
which seems to back up what shes been told. Her husband was also
rejected for a residency visa by the UK [or whatever we call it].
In message <ac4m5kheetoffj17t79l3io05bmgmbb1dd@4ax.com>, at 22:00:43 on
Tue, 24 Jun 2025, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> remarked:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 16:02:32 +0000, dmike2004@gmail.com (miked) wrote:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen >>>she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband whoSpousal visas for the UK are expensive (I couldn't afford one) but not
is portuguese, and he can only live 3 months in the UK. Apparently the >>>only way to get a residence visa is if you can bring 500K into either >>>country. This seems very restrictive, does this affect everyone who >>>marries a foreigner now in the UK and the EU?
that expensive. I think I'd want a second opinion on that "officially"
bit.
When my USA-ian wife relocated from USA to UK, all they wanted was proof
of my earnings (so I could support her) and lip-service to whether or
not she was a mail-order bride. She was automatically allowed to work
after 12months I think, but in those days it was routine for people to
evade that by being employed by a muti-national from their home country.
If there was a fee or any of that, it was so small I have no
recollection of it.
Nick Odell wrote:
I think I'd want a second opinion on that "officially"
bit.
Bear in mind that once the EU entry/exit system finally goes live
(october) enforcement of the 90 days is likely to get much hotter.
In message <ac4m5kheetoffj17t79l3io05bmgmbb1dd@4ax.com>, at 22:00:43 on
Tue, 24 Jun 2025, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> remarked:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 16:02:32 +0000, dmike2004@gmail.com (miked) wrote:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizenSpousal visas for the UK are expensive (I couldn't afford one) but not
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese, and he can only live 3 months in the UK. Apparently the
only way to get a residence visa is if you can bring 500K into either
country. This seems very restrictive, does this affect everyone who
marries a foreigner now in the UK and the EU?
that expensive. I think I'd want a second opinion on that "officially"
bit.
When my USA-ian wife relocated from USA to UK, all they wanted was proof
of my earnings (so I could support her) and lip-service to whether or
not she was a mail-order bride. She was automatically allowed to work
after 12months I think, but in those days it was routine for people to
evade that by being employed by a muti-national from their home country.
If there was a fee or any of that, it was so small I have no
recollection of it.
We now officially hate all foreigners
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese,
Op 24/06/2025 om 17:02 schreef miked:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese,
She can live 3 months at a time, separated by 3 months outside the
Schengen area.
Op 24/06/2025 om 23:52 schreef Roger Hayter:
We now officially hate all foreigners
But we hate European foreigners a bit more.
According to Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com>:
Op 24/06/2025 om 17:02 schreef miked:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese,
She can live 3 months at a time, separated by 3 months outside the
Schengen area.
Are you saying it makes no difference that she is married to an EU citizen?
On 25 Jun 2025 18:51:51 -0000, "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
Are you saying it makes no difference that she is married to an EU citizen?
The difference that it makes AIUI is that her husband may apply to the >authorities in his country for the right to bring his non-EU spouse
(or partner, for non married couples) to live with him in that country
According to Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com>:
Op 24/06/2025 om 17:02 schreef miked:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who
is portuguese,
She can live 3 months at a time, separated by 3 months outside the
Schengen area.
Are you saying it makes no difference that she is married to an EU citizen?
On 25 Jun 2025 at 15:03:38 BST, "Ottavio Caruso" <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
Op 24/06/2025 om 23:52 schreef Roger Hayter:
We now officially hate all foreigners
But we hate European foreigners a bit more.
I can see why you would say that; but in the case of non-Europeans we tend to refuse visas altogether rather than unkindly restrict their stay. Unless we are desperate for doctors and nurses anyway. Or, at least, desperate not to pay doctors and nurses a decent rate for the job.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 20:51:11 +0000, Nick Odell wrote:
On 25 Jun 2025 18:51:51 -0000, "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
According to Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com>:
Op 24/06/2025 om 17:02 schreef miked:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen >>>>> she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who >>>>> is portuguese,
She can live 3 months at a time, separated by 3 months outside the >>>>Schengen area.
Are you saying it makes no difference that she is married to an EU
citizen?
The difference that it makes AIUI is that her husband may apply to the
authorities in his country for the right to bring his non-EU spouse
(or partner, for non married couples) to live with him in that country
under EU Human Rights laws. After she has lived there for a number of
years she may then apply for Portuguese citizenship and if so granted
live anywhere in Europe as a citizen. If no application is made by her
husband then her rights remain as stated before: up to three months in
any six. Sorry, I don't have the figures for the fees involved but I
think they would be easy to find out (and I would guess, a lot less
than applying to the UK)
Nick
Would a UK citizen have to do the same if they wanted their EU spouse to
live with them in the UK? Would it be easier if their spouse was a >commonwealth citizen? eg if someone from UK got married in India or
Pakistan or met and married someone from Canada or OZ/NZ in the UK,
would their spouse only be allowed to live here in UK for 3 months per
year?
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 22:49:13 +0000, dmike2004@gmail.com (miked) wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 20:51:11 +0000, Nick Odell wrote:I referred to the UK situation in my reply to Roland upthread.
On 25 Jun 2025 18:51:51 -0000, "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
According to Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com>:
Op 24/06/2025 om 17:02 schreef miked:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen >>>>>> she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who >>>>>> is portuguese,
She can live 3 months at a time, separated by 3 months outside the
Schengen area.
Are you saying it makes no difference that she is married to an EU
citizen?
The difference that it makes AIUI is that her husband may apply to the
authorities in his country for the right to bring his non-EU spouse
(or partner, for non married couples) to live with him in that country
under EU Human Rights laws. After she has lived there for a number of
years she may then apply for Portuguese citizenship and if so granted
live anywhere in Europe as a citizen. If no application is made by her
husband then her rights remain as stated before: up to three months in
any six. Sorry, I don't have the figures for the fees involved but I
think they would be easy to find out (and I would guess, a lot less
than applying to the UK)
Nick
Would a UK citizen have to do the same if they wanted their EU spouse to
live with them in the UK? Would it be easier if their spouse was a
commonwealth citizen? eg if someone from UK got married in India or
Pakistan or met and married someone from Canada or OZ/NZ in the UK,
would their spouse only be allowed to live here in UK for 3 months per
year?
<https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa>
Nick
Op 25/06/2025 om 20:55 schreef Roger Hayter:
On 25 Jun 2025 at 15:03:38 BST, "Ottavio Caruso"
<ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
Op 24/06/2025 om 23:52 schreef Roger Hayter:
We now officially hate all foreigners
But we hate European foreigners a bit more.
I can see why you would say that; but in the case of non-Europeans we tend to
refuse visas altogether rather than unkindly restrict their stay. Unless we >> are desperate for doctors and nurses anyway. Or, at least, desperate not to >> pay doctors and nurses a decent rate for the job.
I remember the narrative of the 2016-2019 period and the use of "EU
MIGRANTS" in popular tabloids.
Even our beloved leader Jeremy Corbyn was pretty much against
immigration from the EU:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38561501
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 16:05:36 +0000, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 Jun 2025 at 16:06:02 BST, "Nick Odell" <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 22:49:13 +0000, dmike2004@gmail.com (miked) wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 20:51:11 +0000, Nick Odell wrote:
On 25 Jun 2025 18:51:51 -0000, "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: >>>>>
According to Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com>: >>>>>>> Op 24/06/2025 om 17:02 schreef miked:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK >>>>>>>> citizen
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her
husband who
is portuguese,
She can live 3 months at a time, separated by 3 months outside the >>>>>>> Schengen area.
Are you saying it makes no difference that she is married to an EU >>>>>> citizen?
The difference that it makes AIUI is that her husband may apply to the >>>>> authorities in his country for the right to bring his non-EU spouse
(or partner, for non married couples) to live with him in that country >>>>> under EU Human Rights laws. After she has lived there for a number of >>>>> years she may then apply for Portuguese citizenship and if so granted >>>>> live anywhere in Europe as a citizen. If no application is made by her >>>>> husband then her rights remain as stated before: up to three months in >>>>> any six. Sorry, I don't have the figures for the fees involved but I >>>>> think they would be easy to find out (and I would guess, a lot less
than applying to the UK)
Nick
Would a UK citizen have to do the same if they wanted their EU
spouse to
live with them in the UK? Would it be easier if their spouse was a
commonwealth citizen? eg if someone from UK got married in India or
Pakistan or met and married someone from Canada or OZ/NZ in the UK,
would their spouse only be allowed to live here in UK for 3 months per >>>> year?
I referred to the UK situation in my reply to Roland upthread.
 <https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa>
Nick
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if you
apply for
a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover you have a spouse or
proposed spouse there the US authorities are likely to refuse entry,
probably
permanently, on the grounds you have misled them. So it is probably
important
to reveal this information at an early stage.
I wasnt suggesting any subterfuge, only asking how could this be done officially and legally. But it seems that since brexit, if you marry a foreigner from the EU, you can live with them 3 months in the UK and 3
months in their country.
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if you apply for
a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover you have a spouse or proposed spouse there the US authorities are likely to refuse entry, probably permanently, on the grounds you have misled them. So it is probably important
to reveal this information at an early stage.
On 27 Jun 2025 at 18:19:49 BST, "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
On 26/06/2025 17:05, Roger Hayter wrote:
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if you apply for
a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover you have a spouse or >>> proposed spouse there the US authorities are likely to refuse entry, probably
permanently, on the grounds you have misled them. So it is probably important
to reveal this information at an early stage.
Some married couples are content to live in different continents. Why
shouldn't you holiday with your wife?
Sounds fine to me! But if one of the couple has a right to live in the US and the other doesn't they will have an uphill struggle convincing the US immigration authorities they are only going for a holiday.
On 26/06/2025 17:05, Roger Hayter wrote:
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if you apply for
a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover you have a spouse or
proposed spouse there the US authorities are likely to refuse entry, probably
permanently, on the grounds you have misled them. So it is probably important
to reveal this information at an early stage.
Some married couples are content to live in different continents. Why shouldn't you holiday with your wife?
On 26/06/2025 19:31, miked wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 16:05:36 +0000, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 Jun 2025 at 16:06:02 BST, "Nick Odell" <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 22:49:13 +0000, dmike2004@gmail.com (miked) wrote: >>>>
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 20:51:11 +0000, Nick Odell wrote:
On 25 Jun 2025 18:51:51 -0000, "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: >>>>>>
According to Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com>: >>>>>>>> Op 24/06/2025 om 17:02 schreef miked:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK >>>>>>>>> citizen
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her
husband who
is portuguese,
She can live 3 months at a time, separated by 3 months outside the >>>>>>>> Schengen area.
Are you saying it makes no difference that she is married to an EU >>>>>>> citizen?
The difference that it makes AIUI is that her husband may apply to the >>>>>> authorities in his country for the right to bring his non-EU spouse >>>>>> (or partner, for non married couples) to live with him in that country >>>>>> under EU Human Rights laws. After she has lived there for a number of >>>>>> years she may then apply for Portuguese citizenship and if so granted >>>>>> live anywhere in Europe as a citizen. If no application is made by her >>>>>> husband then her rights remain as stated before: up to three months in >>>>>> any six. Sorry, I don't have the figures for the fees involved but I >>>>>> think they would be easy to find out (and I would guess, a lot less >>>>>> than applying to the UK)
Nick
Would a UK citizen have to do the same if they wanted their EU
spouse to
live with them in the UK? Would it be easier if their spouse was a
commonwealth citizen? eg if someone from UK got married in India or
Pakistan or met and married someone from Canada or OZ/NZ in the UK,
would their spouse only be allowed to live here in UK for 3 months per >>>>> year?
They have to apply to get the right sort of spousal visa and pay a fair amount up front. I'd be surprised if it was any different in other EU countries. They should be obeying the EHCR on right to a family life.
After a sufficient time (ISTR 5? years) and possibly a language
proficiency test you can apply for a full national visa in your own
right and become a full citizen of your spouse's country.
I referred to the UK situation in my reply to Roland upthread.
 <https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa>
Nick
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if you
apply for
a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover you have a spouse or >>> proposed spouse there the US authorities are likely to refuse entry,
probably
permanently, on the grounds you have misled them. So it is probably
important
to reveal this information at an early stage.
I wasnt suggesting any subterfuge, only asking how could this be done
officially and legally. But it seems that since brexit, if you marry a
foreigner from the EU, you can live with them 3 months in the UK and 3
months in their country.
That sounds to be in conflict with normal rules for spousal visas where
a couple are legally married under the law of either country. I only
have experience of it with UK and Japan. The latter is not in the EU.
You will have to apply for the right sort of visa as their spouse.
Previously before Brexit you could just go there as part of the EU.
This website looks plausible and fits with what I expect:
https://advocateabroad.com/portugal/family-reunification-portugal/
I couldn't find anything on .gov.pt that didn't fail 404!
AI suggests that the visa fee is Euro 160-180.
Anyone can come and go for up to 90 days (3 months) no questions asked.
Now that we are outside the EU there is no longer freedom of movement.
I think that something has been seriously lost in translation here.
You really need to consult an English speaking expert in Portuguese law
as it applies to spousal visas in practice (as opposed to what their
embassy says). Some EU countries have laws that are never obeyed.
The Belgian typewriter tax and car radio tax for instance.
Nick Odell wrote:
I think I'd want a second opinion on that "officially"
bit.
Bear in mind that once the EU entry/exit system finally goes live
(october) enforcement of the 90 days is likely to get much hotter.
The situation in Spain is already that as well as getting through
airport security for a flight to the UK, your passport is now stamped
with your Schengen area exit date.
They count us all in and they count us all out again.
On 25/06/2025 11:05 AM, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <ac4m5kheetoffj17t79l3io05bmgmbb1dd@4ax.com>, at 22:00:43 on
Tue, 24 Jun 2025, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> remarked:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 16:02:32 +0000, dmike2004@gmail.com (miked) wrote:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a UK citizen >>>> she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her husband who >>>> is portuguese, and he can only live 3 months in the UK. Apparently the >>>> only way to get a residence visa is if you can bring 500K into eitherSpousal visas for the UK are expensive (I couldn't afford one) but not
country. This seems very restrictive, does this affect everyone who
marries a foreigner now in the UK and the EU?
that expensive. I think I'd want a second opinion on that "officially"
bit.
When my USA-ian wife relocated from USA to UK, all they wanted was proof
of my earnings (so I could support her) and lip-service to whether or
not she was a mail-order bride. She was automatically allowed to work
after 12months I think, but in those days it was routine for people to
evade that by being employed by a muti-national from their home country.
If there was a fee or any of that, it was so small I have no
recollection of it.
Did your wife have to pay a (reasonably small*) sum on entry to the UK
for any possible use of the NHS?
Our American daughter-in-law did.
[* A fair bit less than £1,000 - and she was working remotely for her
USA employer.]
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if you apply for >a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover you have a spouse or >proposed spouse there the US authorities are likely to refuse entry, probably >permanently, on the grounds you have misled them. So it is probably important >to reveal this information at an early stage.
JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
Nick Odell wrote:
I think I'd want a second opinion on that "officially"
bit.
Bear in mind that once the EU entry/exit system finally goes live
(october) enforcement of the 90 days is likely to get much hotter.
The situation in Spain is already that as well as getting through
airport security for a flight to the UK, your passport is now stamped
with your Schengen area exit date.
Thye've been doing that for at least two years. Also Prague and France
from my recent trips.
They count us all in and they count us all out again.
Not quite. On arrival at I think it was Malaga, the entry e-gates
weren't working and they simply waved the entire planeload through then stamped them without scanning the name.
Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if
you apply for a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover
you have a spouse or proposed spouse there the US authorities are
likely to refuse entry, probably permanently, on the grounds you
have misled them. So it is probably important to reveal this
information at an early stage.
Yes, the USA has a concept of a "Fiancee Visa", which is outside the
scope of the Visa-waiver scheme (which is for routine holidaymakers).
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 22:13:17 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:
On 26/06/2025 19:31, miked wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 16:05:36 +0000, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 Jun 2025 at 16:06:02 BST, "Nick Odell"
<nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 22:49:13 +0000, dmike2004@gmail.com (miked)
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 20:51:11 +0000, Nick Odell wrote:
On 25 Jun 2025 18:51:51 -0000, "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com>
wrote:
According to Ottavio Caruso
<ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com>:
Op 24/06/2025 om 17:02 schreef miked:
The daughter of a friend has been told officially that as a >>>>>>>>> UK citizen
she can only live for 3 months a year in Portugal with her >>>>>>>>> husband who
is portuguese,
She can live 3 months at a time, separated by 3 months
outside the Schengen area.
Are you saying it makes no difference that she is married to
an EU citizen?
The difference that it makes AIUI is that her husband may
apply to the authorities in his country for the right to bring
his non-EU spouse (or partner, for non married couples) to
live with him in that country under EU Human Rights laws.
After she has lived there for a number of years she may then
apply for Portuguese citizenship and if so granted live
anywhere in Europe as a citizen. If no application is made by
her husband then her rights remain as stated before: up to
three months in any six. Sorry, I don't have the figures for
the fees involved but I think they would be easy to find out
(and I would guess, a lot less than applying to the UK)
Nick
Would a UK citizen have to do the same if they wanted their EU
spouse to
live with them in the UK? Would it be easier if their spouse
was a commonwealth citizen? eg if someone from UK got married
in India or Pakistan or met and married someone from Canada or
OZ/NZ in the UK, would their spouse only be allowed to live
here in UK for 3 months per year?
They have to apply to get the right sort of spousal visa and pay a
fair amount up front. I'd be surprised if it was any different in
other EU countries. They should be obeying the EHCR on right to a
family life.
After a sufficient time (ISTR 5? years) and possibly a language
proficiency test you can apply for a full national visa in your own
right and become a full citizen of your spouse's country.
I referred to the UK situation in my reply to Roland upthread.
 <https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa>
Nick
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if
you apply for
a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover you have a
spouse or proposed spouse there the US authorities are likely to
refuse entry, probably
permanently, on the grounds you have misled them. So it is
probably important
to reveal this information at an early stage.
I wasnt suggesting any subterfuge, only asking how could this be
done officially and legally. But it seems that since brexit, if
you marry a foreigner from the EU, you can live with them 3 months
in the UK and 3 months in their country.
That sounds to be in conflict with normal rules for spousal visas
where a couple are legally married under the law of either country.
I only have experience of it with UK and Japan. The latter is not
in the EU.
You will have to apply for the right sort of visa as their spouse. Previously before Brexit you could just go there as part of the EU.
This website looks plausible and fits with what I expect:
https://advocateabroad.com/portugal/family-reunification-portugal/
I couldn't find anything on .gov.pt that didn't fail 404!
AI suggests that the visa fee is Euro 160-180.
Anyone can come and go for up to 90 days (3 months) no questions
asked. Now that we are outside the EU there is no longer freedom of movement.
I think that something has been seriously lost in translation here.
You really need to consult an English speaking expert in Portuguese
law as it applies to spousal visas in practice (as opposed to what
their embassy says). Some EU countries have laws that are never
obeyed.
The Belgian typewriter tax and car radio tax for instance.
thanks for that, i'll pass it on.
mike
On 28/06/2025 08:40 AM, Roland Perry wrote:
Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if
you apply for a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover
you have a spouse or proposed spouse there the US authorities are
likely to refuse entry, probably permanently, on the grounds you
have misled them. So it is probably important to reveal this
information at an early stage.
Yes, the USA has a concept of a "Fiancee Visa", which is outside the
scope of the Visa-waiver scheme (which is for routine holidaymakers).
All proper visas are awkward to apply for, though. Involving a visit to
the USA Embassy at Wandsworth.
On 28/06/2025 08:35 AM, Roland Perry wrote:
JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
Nick Odell wrote:
I think I'd want a second opinion on that "officially"
bit.
Bear in mind that once the EU entry/exit system finally goes live
(october) enforcement of the 90 days is likely to get much hotter.
The situation in Spain is already that as well as getting through
airport security for a flight to the UK, your passport is now stamped
with your Schengen area exit date.
Thye've been doing that for at least two years. Also Prague and France
from my recent trips.
I hadn't visited a continental country since before Covid. I knew
something was coming, but wasn't sure what.
They count us all in and they count us all out again.
Not quite. On arrival at I think it was Malaga, the entry e-gates
weren't working and they simply waved the entire planeload through then
stamped them without scanning the name.
How about outbound?
In message <mca29aFmrigU1@mid.individual.net>, at 12:34:02 on Sat, 28
Jun 2025, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
On 28/06/2025 08:35 AM, Roland Perry wrote:
JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
Nick Odell wrote:
I think I'd want a second opinion on that "officially"
bit.
Bear in mind that once the EU entry/exit system finally goes live
(october) enforcement of the 90 days is likely to get much hotter.
The situation in Spain is already that as well as getting through
airport security for a flight to the UK, your passport is now stamped
with your Schengen area exit date.
Thye've been doing that for at least two years. Also Prague and France
from my recent trips.
I hadn't visited a continental country since before Covid. I knew
something was coming, but wasn't sure what.
They count us all in and they count us all out again.
Not quite. On arrival at I think it was Malaga, the entry e-gates
weren't working and they simply waved the entire planeload through then
stamped them without scanning the name.
How about outbound?
Passport stamped every time.
In message <mca2daFmrigU2@mid.individual.net>, at 12:36:10 on Sat, 28
Jun 2025, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
On 28/06/2025 08:40 AM, Roland Perry wrote:
Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if
you apply for a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover
you have a spouse or proposed spouse there the US authorities are
likely to refuse entry, probably permanently, on the grounds you
have misled them. So it is probably important to reveal this
information at an early stage.
Yes, the USA has a concept of a "Fiancee Visa", which is outside the
scope of the Visa-waiver scheme (which is for routine holidaymakers).
All proper visas are awkward to apply for, though. Involving a visit
to the USA Embassy at Wandsworth.
They didn't used to be. When I needed a Business VISA for USA back in
the day, the travel agent arranged it almost overnight.
On 28/06/2025 02:22 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <mca2daFmrigU2@mid.individual.net>, at 12:36:10 on Sat, 28
Jun 2025, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
On 28/06/2025 08:40 AM, Roland Perry wrote:
Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if
you apply for a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover
you have a spouse or proposed spouse there the US authorities are
likely to refuse entry, probably permanently, on the grounds you
have misled them. So it is probably important to reveal this
information at an early stage.
Yes, the USA has a concept of a "Fiancee Visa", which is outside the
scope of the Visa-waiver scheme (which is for routine holidaymakers).
All proper visas are awkward to apply for, though. Involving a visit
to the USA Embassy at Wandsworth.
They didn't used to be. When I needed a Business VISA for USA back in
the day, the travel agent arranged it almost overnight.
<shrug>
But they are now.
Of course, you would have been able to use the visa waiver system for a >business trip, had it been in place.
I hadn't visited a continental country since before Covid
In message <mca9orFo1d7U2@mid.individual.net>, at 14:41:47 on Sat, 28
Jun 2025, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
On 28/06/2025 02:22 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <mca2daFmrigU2@mid.individual.net>, at 12:36:10 on Sat, 28
Jun 2025, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
On 28/06/2025 08:40 AM, Roland Perry wrote:
Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:All proper visas are awkward to apply for, though. Involving a visit
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if
you apply for a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover
you have a spouse or proposed spouse there the US authorities are
likely to refuse entry, probably permanently, on the grounds you
have misled them. So it is probably important to reveal this
information at an early stage.
Yes, the USA has a concept of a "Fiancee Visa", which is outside the >>>>> scope of the Visa-waiver scheme (which is for routine holidaymakers). >>>>
to the USA Embassy at Wandsworth.
They didn't used to be. When I needed a Business VISA for USA back in
the day, the travel agent arranged it almost overnight.
<shrug>
But they are now.
Of course, you would have been able to use the visa waiver system for
a business trip, had it been in place.
Actually the introduction of the Visa Waiver was a PITA. Previously I
just waved my passport at the immigration officers, whereas now you have
to fill in a form for *every* *single* *trip.
On 28/06/2025 03:15 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <mca9orFo1d7U2@mid.individual.net>, at 14:41:47 on Sat, 28
Jun 2025, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
On 28/06/2025 02:22 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <mca2daFmrigU2@mid.individual.net>, at 12:36:10 on Sat, 28
Jun 2025, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
On 28/06/2025 08:40 AM, Roland Perry wrote:
Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:All proper visas are awkward to apply for, though. Involving a visit >>>>> to the USA Embassy at Wandsworth.
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if >>>>>>> you apply for a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover >>>>>>> you have a spouse or proposed spouse there the US authorities are >>>>>>> likely to refuse entry, probably permanently, on the grounds you >>>>>>> have misled them. So it is probably important to reveal this
information at an early stage.
Yes, the USA has a concept of a "Fiancee Visa", which is outside the >>>>>> scope of the Visa-waiver scheme (which is for routine holidaymakers). >>>>>
They didn't used to be. When I needed a Business VISA for USA back in
the day, the travel agent arranged it almost overnight.
<shrug>
But they are now.
Of course, you would have been able to use the visa waiver system for
a business trip, had it been in place.
Actually the introduction of the Visa Waiver was a PITA. Previously I
just waved my passport at the immigration officers, whereas now you have
to fill in a form for *every* *single* *trip.
I haven't filled in any forms since the USA abolished the landing card
and customs declaration, a few years ago.
They look at my passport and ask me whether I am staying at the same
place again (which I usually am).
Have they scrapped the Visa Waiver form too?
Roland Perry wrote:
Have they scrapped the Visa Waiver form too?
I haven't travelled to the USA since the ESTA was introduced, do you
still have to fill in the 'moral turpitude' form on arrival?
Roland Perry wrote:
Have they scrapped the Visa Waiver form too?
I haven't travelled to the USA since the ESTA was introduced, do you
still have to fill in the 'moral turpitude' form on arrival?
On 2025-06-28, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
Have they scrapped the Visa Waiver form too?
I haven't travelled to the USA since the ESTA was introduced, do you
still have to fill in the 'moral turpitude' form on arrival?
"Have you ever been or are you now involved in genocide?"
That's the I-94 arrival form, generally filled out on the plane
as I recall. It's been scrapped I believe as they get the info
from the pre-travel ESTA process instead.
Jun 2025, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
On 28/06/2025 03:15 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
On 28/06/2025 02:22 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
On 28/06/2025 08:40 AM, Roland Perry wrote:
Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
I don't know how the EU and the UK deal with these things but if >>>>>>>> you apply for a holiday visa (waiver) to the US and they discover >>>>>>>> you have a spouse or proposed spouse there the US authorities are >>>>>>>> likely to refuse entry, probably permanently, on the grounds you >>>>>>>> have misled them. So it is probably important to reveal this
information at an early stage.
Yes, the USA has a concept of a "Fiancee Visa", which is outside the >>>>>>> scope of the Visa-waiver scheme (which is for routine
holidaymakers).
All proper visas are awkward to apply for, though. Involving a visit >>>>>> to the USA Embassy at Wandsworth.
They didn't used to be. When I needed a Business VISA for USA back in >>>>> the day, the travel agent arranged it almost overnight.
<shrug>
But they are now.
Of course, you would have been able to use the visa waiver system for
a business trip, had it been in place.
Actually the introduction of the Visa Waiver was a PITA. Previously I
just waved my passport at the immigration officers, whereas now you have >>> to fill in a form for *every* *single* *trip.
I haven't filled in any forms since the USA abolished the landing card
and customs declaration, a few years ago.
Have they scrapped the Visa Waiver form too?
They look at my passport and ask me whether I am staying at the same
place again (which I usually am).
When I was travelling a lot to USA, it was generally different places,
or at the very least different hotels in the same places.
Roland Perry wrote:
Have they scrapped the Visa Waiver form too?
I haven't travelled to the USA since the ESTA was introduced, do you
still have to fill in the 'moral turpitude' form on arrival?
In message <slrn1060gv3.cme.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>, at
19:34:59 on Sat, 28 Jun 2025, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> remarked:
On 2025-06-28, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
Have they scrapped the Visa Waiver form too?
I haven't travelled to the USA since the ESTA was introduced, do you
still have to fill in the 'moral turpitude' form on arrival?
"Have you ever been or are you now involved in genocide?"
That's the I-94 arrival form, generally filled out on the plane
as I recall. It's been scrapped I believe as they get the info
from the pre-travel ESTA process instead.
Yet more for filling! Gone are the days when you could turn up at
Heathrow, buy a ticket, and be in the air to USA two hours later.
On 28/06/2025 08:46 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <slrn1060gv3.cme.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>, at
19:34:59 on Sat, 28 Jun 2025, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu>
remarked:
On 2025-06-28, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
Have they scrapped the Visa Waiver form too?
I haven't travelled to the USA since the ESTA was introduced, do you
still have to fill in the 'moral turpitude' form on arrival?
"Have you ever been or are you now involved in genocide?"
That's the I-94 arrival form, generally filled out on the plane
as I recall. It's been scrapped I believe as they get the info
from the pre-travel ESTA process instead.
Yet more for filling! Gone are the days when you could turn up at
Heathrow, buy a ticket, and be in the air to USA two hours later.
Take a laptop or iPad to the airport and there's a better than good
chance you could still do that.
But it'd be better to do it before you leave home.
In message <mccj6pF561pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:35:05 on Sun, 29
Jun 2025, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> remarked:
On 28/06/2025 08:46 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <slrn1060gv3.cme.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>, at
19:34:59 on Sat, 28 Jun 2025, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu>
remarked:
On 2025-06-28, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
Have they scrapped the Visa Waiver form too?
I haven't travelled to the USA since the ESTA was introduced, do you >>>>> still have to fill in the 'moral turpitude' form on arrival?
"Have you ever been or are you now involved in genocide?"
That's the I-94 arrival form, generally filled out on the plane
as I recall. It's been scrapped I believe as they get the info
from the pre-travel ESTA process instead.
Yet more for filling! Gone are the days when you could turn up at
Heathrow, buy a ticket, and be in the air to USA two hours later.
Take a laptop or iPad to the airport and there's a better than good
chance you could still do that.
Whats the official minimum time before reaching check-in that you can
apply for an ESTA?
...it'd be better to do it before you leave home.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 546 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 17:35:21 |
| Calls: | 10,389 |
| Files: | 14,061 |
| Messages: | 6,416,953 |