https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2390x51zqo
or
Where there's no Will there's a Way
Surely there has to be the ability to have some joined up thinking
somewhere?
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 13:08:11 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2390x51zqo
or
Where there's no Will there's a Way
Surely there has to be the ability to have some joined up thinking
somewhere?
It is easy and cheap to enter a 'caveat' with the Probate Registry to temporarily block someone's attempt to obtain probate or grant of representation. This will launch a process under which the person applying can contest your caveat and the probate authorities get involved in adjudicating it, short of litigation. In the meantime you could contact
the police, who sometimes do get involved if the application is an obvious fraud.
https://www.gov.uk/stop-probate-application/print
One would think that some rando Hungarian who was simply trying it on
might be scared off by this process, knowing that it could end in arrest
and prison; but one never knows. Moreover you can only enter a caveat if
you are aware that somebody has applied for probate; and you might not
find out until it's too late.
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 13:08:11 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2390x51zqo
or
Where there's no Will there's a Way
Surely there has to be the ability to have some joined up thinking
somewhere?
It is easy and cheap to enter a 'caveat' with the Probate Registry to temporarily block someone's attempt to obtain probate or grant of representation.
This will launch a process under which...
The difficulty there, and why and how this scam works is that distant relatives
might not even be aware of the existance of their deceased relative in the first
place; let alone that they'd died, that they'd died intestate; or that they had
been worth anything at all.
On 06/07/2025 13:48, billy bookcase wrote:
The difficulty there, and why and how this scam works is that distant relatives
might not even be aware of the existance of their deceased relative in the first
place; let alone that they'd died, that they'd died intestate; or that they had
been worth anything at all.
Exactly. But, although the Hungarians were involved in a clear fraud, you could argue
that the *legal* beneficiaries of the estate in such a case as you say don't usually
have much of a *moral* entitlement to it anyway so it's hard to have much sympathy for
them.
In the case first mentioned in this thread for example:
"Lisa and Nicole were upset to hear about the death of their aunt, Christine Harverson"
Oh, poor dears! It must have been such a shock.
"whom they had not seen since their early childhood.":
Ah, I see.
I bet they were actually overjoyed rather than upset when they heard of their good
fortune for so little effort, even though someone else tried to deprive them of it.
It's sadly not clear from the article whether they actually contested it, but they'd
have surely found the money somehow to do so since the estate contained a house 'worth
nearly 1m'. I know I would.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2390x51zqo
or
Where there's no Will there's a Way
Surely there has to be the ability to have some joined up thinking
somewhere?
"Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote in message news:mcvfapF9m7gU2@mid.individual.net...
On 06/07/2025 13:48, billy bookcase wrote:
The difficulty there, and why and how this scam works is that distant relatives
might not even be aware of the existance of their deceased relative in the first
place; let alone that they'd died, that they'd died intestate; or that they had
been worth anything at all.
Exactly. But, although the Hungarians were involved in a clear fraud, you could argue
that the *legal* beneficiaries of the estate in such a case as you say don't usually
have much of a *moral* entitlement to it anyway so it's hard to have much sympathy for
them.
In the case first mentioned in this thread for example:
"Lisa and Nicole were upset to hear about the death of their aunt, Christine Harverson"
Oh, poor dears! It must have been such a shock.
It was indeed.
quote:
Lisa and Nicole were upset to hear about the death of their aunt, Christine Harverson,
whom they had not seen since their early childhood. They were also shocked to be told
that they stood to inherit her entire estate,
:unquote
:
"whom they had not seen since their early childhood."
Ah, I see.
I bet they were actually overjoyed rather than upset when they heard of their good
fortune for so little effort, even though someone else tried to deprive them of it.
It's sadly not clear from the article whether they actually contested it, but they'd
have surely found the money somehow to do so since the estate contained a house 'worth
nearly Ł1m'. I know I would.
It is actually all too clear
quote:
Lisa and Nicole were told they would have to bring a civil action if they wanted
to prove that the will was a fake.
That would cost tens of thousands of pounds
which they do not have.
Lisa now says she sometimes wishes she had never been told about the will in the first place: "All it's done is bring misery really, and heartache. It's just a whole nightmare."
::unquote
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2390x51zqo
"Sadly", given that they don't have the tens of thousands of pounds to launch a Civil
Action, neither do they have the tens of thousands of pounds which would be necessary
to launch a suit for defamation either
Which I won't repeat
The second house worth, nearly Ł!m never belonged to their aunt BTW; but was part of
a secondary scam
So that given the total value of the one house estate, plus the fact they would be
unlikly to recover their costs from the defendant, *plus the accompanying aggravation*
they simply decided to call it a day
It can actually help to read these articles fully, you know,.
On 14:08 5 Jul 2025, AnthonyL said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2390x51zqo
or
Where there's no Will there's a Way
Surely there has to be the ability to have some joined up thinking
somewhere?
That article says:
"Lisa and Nicole were told they would have to bring a civil action
if they wanted to prove that the will was a fake. That would cost
tens of thousands of pounds which they do not have."
Does it really cost as much as "tens of thousands of pounds" to bring such
an action?
On 14:08 5 Jul 2025, AnthonyL said:
[quoted text muted]
That article says:
"Lisa and Nicole were told they would have to bring a civil action if
they wanted to prove that the will was a fake. That would cost tens
of thousands of pounds which they do not have."
It can actually help to read these articles fully, you know,.
Which of course I do, and I recommend to you. The aunt's house worth nearly 1 million
did belong to her. It's surely well worth borrowing, begging, scraping together the
cost of any legal action to get their hands on that, or getting lawyers to act pro bono
or on a no-win-no fee basis,
or being a bit more persuasive with the police to take action.
And the case hasn't been dropped, not according to the article anyway which says:
"the probate process has been frozen, and it looks unlikely to be resolved soon".
On Sun, 06 Jul 2025 22:39:45 +0100, Pamela wrote:
On 14:08 5 Jul 2025, AnthonyL said:
[quoted text muted]
That article says:
"Lisa and Nicole were told they would have to bring a civil action if
they wanted to prove that the will was a fake. That would cost tens
of thousands of pounds which they do not have."
And even then you have to consider if there is any money to be recovered.
"Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote in message news:md0c79FecupU1@mid.individual.net...
It can actually help to read these articles fully, you know,.
Which of course I do, and I recommend to you. The aunt's house worth nearly Ł1 million
did belong to her. It's surely well worth borrowing, begging, scraping together the
cost of any legal action to get their hands on that, or getting lawyers to act pro bono
or on a no-win-no fee basis,
Assuming that would even be possible.
But supposing the false claimant is a very good liar ?
Here's this very lonely old lady, whose relatives have never bothered to contact her
in decades when along came this very attentive and personable young man who she hired to do some work for her in her house - a Polish type builder maybe. And
guess what, they struck up a friendshiop and he showered her with attention; he had an easy rapport with old ladies; which isn't a criminal offence in iteslf,
and which nobody had shown her before, And then when she died rather than leaving
her estate to her cat, she left everything to him.
Prove that wasn't possible.
or being a bit more persuasive with the police to take action.
And the case hasn't been dropped, not according to the article anyway which says:
"the probate process has been frozen, and it looks unlikely to be resolved soon".
One final thought in passing.
Learning that a distant relative has died intestate, and that you stand to inherit their estate, can indeed come as bit of a shock.
What might come as a bigger shock, once the penny has finally dropped, isn't just
that the distant relative had died, but that all those closer relatives along with
any children they might have been expected to have had, who would have stood to
inherit, must have already died too.
That's assuming of course, that the heir hunters have done their job. But then if
they've managed to trace you, a distant relative, over numerous changes of address
it can probably be assumed that they must have already chased down any closer relatives and their descendants, had they still been alive.
"Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote in message news:md0c79FecupU1@mid.individual.net...
snip
It can actually help to read these articles fully, you know,.
Which of course I do, and I recommend to you. The aunt's house worth
nearly £1 million did belong to her. It's surely well worth borrowing,
begging, scraping together the cost of any legal action to get their
hands on that, or getting lawyers to act pro bono or on a no-win-no fee
basis,
Assuming that would even be possible.
But supposing the false claimant is a very good liar ?
Here's this very lonely old lady, whose relatives have never bothered to contact her in decades when along came this very attentive and
personable young man who she hired to do some work for her in her house
- a Polish type builder maybe. And guess what, they struck up a
friendshiop and he showered her with attention;
he had an easy rapport with old ladies; which isn't a criminal offence
in iteslf, and which nobody had shown her before, And then when she died rather than leaving her estate to her cat, she left everything to him.
Prove that wasn't possible.
On 06/07/2025 13:48, billy bookcase wrote:
The difficulty there, and why and how this scam works is that distant
relatives
might not even be aware of the existance of their deceased relative in
the first
place; let alone that they'd died, that they'd died intestate; or
that they had
been worth anything at all.
Exactly. But, although the Hungarians were involved in a clear fraud,
you could argue that the *legal* beneficiaries of the estate in such a
case as you say don't usually have much of a *moral* entitlement to it
anyway so it's hard to have much sympathy for them.
It's sadly not clear from the article whether they actually contested
it, but they'd have surely found the money somehow to do so since the
estate contained a house 'worth nearly £1m'. I know I would.
"Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote in message news:md0c79FecupU1@mid.individual.net...
snip
It can actually help to read these articles fully, you know,.
Which of course I do, and I recommend to you. The aunt's house worth nearly Ł1 million
did belong to her. It's surely well worth borrowing, begging, scraping together the
cost of any legal action to get their hands on that, or getting lawyers to act pro bono
or on a no-win-no fee basis,
Assuming that would even be possible.
But supposing the false claimant is a very good liar ?
Here's this very lonely old lady, whose relatives have never bothered to contact her
in decades when along came this very attentive and personable young man who she hired to do some work for her in her house - a Polish type builder maybe. And
guess what, they struck up a friendshiop and he showered her with attention; he had an easy rapport with old ladies; which isn't a criminal offence in iteslf,
and which nobody had shown her before, And then when she died rather than leaving
her estate to her cat, she left everything to him.
Prove that wasn't possible.
On 07/07/2025 10:22, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jul 2025 22:39:45 +0100, Pamela wrote:
On 14:08 5 Jul 2025, AnthonyL said:
[quoted text muted]
That article says:
"Lisa and Nicole were told they would have to bring a civil action
if they wanted to prove that the will was a fake. That would cost
tens of thousands of pounds which they do not have."
And even then you have to consider if there is any money to be
recovered.
It's not any money that's important, but the aunt's house which is
stated to be worth nearly £1 million.
Must be worth a bit of effort to sort it out I'd have thought.
On 06/07/2025 15:25, Norman Wells wrote:
On 06/07/2025 13:48, billy bookcase wrote:
The difficulty there, and why and how this scam works is that distant
relatives
might not even be aware of the existance of their deceased relative
in the first
place; let alone that they'd died, that they'd died intestate; or
that they had
been worth anything at all.
Exactly. But, although the Hungarians were involved in a clear fraud,
you could argue that the *legal* beneficiaries of the estate in such a
case as you say don't usually have much of a *moral* entitlement to it
anyway so it's hard to have much sympathy for them.
Even if you take the view that the distant relatives don't deserve it -
it was still rightfully theirs under the law. Probate office showed insufficient professional curiosity about the fake Will.
In addition the executor's falsification of the true value of the estate
to avoid paying any inheritance tax means that HMRC have lost out on a
big chunk of money that was rightfully theirs. Taking them on for
criminal tax evasion might be one way to proceed and the scam prevented.
But HMRC CBA to investigate either so the scam is very effective and
highly lucrative.
It's sadly not clear from the article whether they actually contested
it, but they'd have surely found the money somehow to do so since the
estate contained a house 'worth nearly £1m'. I know I would.
Not everyone has such deep pockets.
I'd have thought some no win no fee lawyers might have been game to take
it on though if the funds were still available to be won back. My
suspicion is that all that is left now is an opaque paper trail of very
rapid money transfers within hours of the sale of the house completing.
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