• Lost deed for a trust

    From GB@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 15 17:23:33 2025
    The original of a deed of assignment has been mislaid. There are
    multiple copies in existence, so everyone knows what it said, and
    there's no dispute about it. It's just that the original has been mislaid.

    Both the assignor and assignee are alive and healthy. The deed was made
    a year ago, and it had effect from that time.

    It's come to light as a problem because the investment manager needs
    sight of the original for ML purposes.

    What's the simplest, cheapest, and least troublesome way of dealing with
    this? (Apart from having a really good rummage around, looking for it.)

    I've heard of reconstructing a deed, but I have no idea how you go about
    doing that?

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 16 08:18:54 2025
    On 15/07/2025 17:23, GB wrote:
    The original of a deed of assignment has been mislaid. There are
    multiple copies in existence, so everyone knows what it said, and
    there's no dispute about it. It's just that the original has been mislaid.

    Going back to the solicitors who drew up the deed might be one way of
    resolving it. I expect they can produce another certified copy of the
    original document that they drafted from their archives (for a price).

    Both the assignor and assignee are alive and healthy. The deed was made
    a year ago, and it had effect from that time.

    It is careless to lose an important document created only last year.

    One or two decades is the typical time between drawing things up and the
    search being on to find them at the back of some drawer. You tend to
    find £10 of ancient Premium Bonds in about the same safe place too...

    Or long expired passports, BMD certificates and wedding photos.

    It's come to light as a problem because the investment manager needs
    sight of the original for ML purposes.

    What's the simplest, cheapest, and least troublesome way of dealing with this? (Apart from having a really good rummage around, looking for it.)

    I've heard of reconstructing a deed, but I have no idea how you go about doing that?

    I'd look for it a bit harder before spending money on the problem.

    --
    Martin Brown

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  • From GB@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Wed Jul 16 12:05:10 2025
    On 16/07/2025 08:18, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 15/07/2025 17:23, GB wrote:
    The original of a deed of assignment has been mislaid. There are
    multiple copies in existence, so everyone knows what it said, and
    there's no dispute about it. It's just that the original has been
    mislaid.

    Going back to the solicitors who drew up the deed might be one way of resolving it. I expect they can produce another certified copy of the original document that they drafted from their archives (for a price).

    The issue is that the deed was signed witnessed, etc. It was then
    scanned and copies sent out to various people. The original was then
    sent back to the solicitors, who acknowledged receipt.

    Only, now they are saying they don't have the original and never
    received it! Clearly, this is their problem.

    I was wondering what the simplest way would be of dealing with the
    situation?






    Both the assignor and assignee are alive and healthy. The deed was
    made a year ago, and it had effect from that time.

    It is careless to lose an important document created only last year.

    Indeed. Do you think I should tell them that? Would it improve anything?


    One or two decades is the typical time between drawing things up and the search being on to find them at the back of some drawer. You tend to
    find £10 of ancient Premium Bonds in about the same safe place too...

    Or long expired passports, BMD certificates and wedding photos.

    I have no idea what they keep in their files, but probably not wedding
    photos.


    It's come to light as a problem because the investment manager needs
    sight of the original for ML purposes.

    What's the simplest, cheapest, and least troublesome way of dealing
    with this? (Apart from having a really good rummage around, looking
    for it.)

    I've heard of reconstructing a deed, but I have no idea how you go
    about doing that?

    I'd look for it a bit harder before spending money on the problem.

    Yes, I suggested to the solicitor that they have a rummage. I suspect
    they sent the original elsewhere and filed the copy.

    But whilst this may be amusing, it doesn't really answer my original
    question.

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  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 17 10:55:08 2025
    In message <1058116$mm73$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:05:10 on Wed, 16 Jul
    2025, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> remarked:
    The original of a deed of assignment has been mislaid. There are >>>multiple copies in existence, so everyone knows what it said, and
    there's no dispute about it. It's just that the original has been mislaid. >> Going back to the solicitors who drew up the deed might be one way
    of resolving it. I expect they can produce another certified copy of
    the original document that they drafted from their archives (for a
    price).

    The issue is that the deed was signed witnessed, etc. It was then
    scanned and copies sent out to various people. The original was then
    sent back to the solicitors, who acknowledged receipt.

    Only, now they are saying they don't have the original and never
    received it! Clearly, this is their problem.

    I was wondering what the simplest way would be of dealing with the
    situation?

    Print out a copy, and get it re-signed and re-witnessed. If the fault is
    with the solicitors, they might be persuaded to do that free of charge.
    --
    Roland Perry

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 17 11:40:28 2025
    On 16/07/2025 12:05, GB wrote:
    On 16/07/2025 08:18, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 15/07/2025 17:23, GB wrote:
    The original of a deed of assignment has been mislaid. There are
    multiple copies in existence, so everyone knows what it said, and
    there's no dispute about it. It's just that the original has been
    mislaid.

    Going back to the solicitors who drew up the deed might be one way of
    resolving it. I expect they can produce another certified copy of the
    original document that they drafted from their archives (for a price).

    The issue is that the deed was signed witnessed, etc. It was then
    scanned and copies sent out to various people. The original was then
    sent back to the solicitors, who acknowledged receipt.

    If you have that acknowledgement of receipt from your solicitors then
    that is the evidence you need to make a formal complaint about them
    losing your valuable document whilst it was in their possession.

    BTW You have changed the terms of the question with that "minor" detail.
    The usual scenario is that such documents are put in a safe place but
    that in the interval between doing that and wanting to use it the owner
    either forgets where the safe place is or is no longer available to ask.

    Only, now they are saying they don't have the original and never
    received it! Clearly, this is their problem.

    I was wondering what the simplest way would be of dealing with the
    situation?

    If you still have their letter acknowledging receipt then I would start
    with a formal complaint through whatever internal procedure they have. I
    don't expect that to do any good so then you escalate as needed.

    It is careless to lose an important document created only last year.

    Indeed. Do you think I should tell them that? Would it improve anything?

    If you can show hard evidence that it was *them* that lost it then yes.
    They are at fault and should put you back in the position that you would
    have been if they had done their job properly.

    I'd look for it a bit harder before spending money on the problem.

    Yes, I suggested to the solicitor that they have a rummage. I suspect
    they sent the original elsewhere and filed the copy.

    But whilst this may be amusing, it doesn't really answer my original question.

    Your *original* question was answered.

    The question that you should have asked is:

    "My solicitor has lost an important and valuable document that they were storing for me - how do I obtain redress?".

    --
    Martin Brown

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  • From GB@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Thu Jul 17 12:12:49 2025
    On 17/07/2025 11:40, Martin Brown wrote:

    The question that you should have asked is:

    "My solicitor has lost an important and valuable document that they were storing for me - how do I obtain redress?".


    I was asking about the procedure the solicitor would undertake to
    rectify the situation. It will not require a complaint to get them to do
    it.

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  • From GB@21:1/5 to Roland Perry on Thu Jul 17 12:08:43 2025
    On 17/07/2025 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <1058116$mm73$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:05:10 on Wed, 16 Jul
    2025, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> remarked:
    The original of a deed of assignment has been mislaid. There are
    multiple copies in existence, so everyone knows what it said, and
    there's no dispute about it. It's just that the original has been
    mislaid.
     Going back to the solicitors who drew up the deed might be one way
    of  resolving it. I expect they can produce another certified copy of
    the  original document that they drafted from their archives (for a
    price).

    The issue is that the deed was signed witnessed, etc. It was then
    scanned and copies sent out to various people. The original was then
    sent back to the solicitors, who acknowledged receipt.

    Only, now they are saying they don't have the original and never
    received it! Clearly, this is their problem.

    I was wondering what the simplest way would be of dealing with the
    situation?

    Print out a copy, and get it re-signed and re-witnessed. If the fault is
    with the solicitors, they might be persuaded to do that free of charge.


    That doesn't work, because you can't (legally) back-date it.

    I thought this would be a well-trodden path, as documents do get lost occasionally, and I thought I would get an immediate response on this NG.

    For the benefit of posterity, what you do is execute a deed of
    confirmation, the main provisions of which look something like this:

    OPERATIVE PROVISIONS
    1. Confirmation
    The Confirming Party confirms and declares that the Original Deed was
    validly executed by him on ..., and that the assignment of his interest
    in the Trust to the Assignee was and remains valid, binding and
    effective according to its terms.
    2. Ratification
    The Confirming Party ratifies and confirms all acts, rights and
    entitlements granted or arising under the Original Deed, and agrees that
    the Assignee may rely upon this confirmation as if the Original Deed
    were extant and available for inspection.
    3. Copy of Original Deed
    A true and complete copy of the Original Deed is Annexed to this Deed of Confirmation as Annex 1.

    I imagine that's rather more wordy than is strictly needed.

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 17 13:17:10 2025
    On 17/07/2025 12:12, GB wrote:
    On 17/07/2025 11:40, Martin Brown wrote:

    The question that you should have asked is:

    "My solicitor has lost an important and valuable document that they
    were storing for me - how do I obtain redress?".

    I was asking about the procedure the solicitor would undertake to
    rectify the situation. It will not require a complaint to get them to do
    it.

    You keep on changing your story with every post! You didn't mention that
    your solicitor lost it until suggestions were made to look a bit harder.

    Your previous statement to refresh your memory was:

    "Only, now they are saying they don't have the original and never
    received it!"

    That is totally inconsistent with them accepting liability for the
    lost/missing document. Both statements cannot be true simultaneously.

    How *they* sort out this mess is entirely up to them. Reprint the
    original and redo the witnessing again seems like the most obvious
    choice if the various participants are all still around to do that.

    Unclear to me how it could be sorted out if this gross error was found
    after the donor had become deceased and the trust document was required.

    I would not expect to pay for them to rectify *their* mistake.

    --
    Martin Brown

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  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 17 15:38:58 2025
    In message <105alrh$1auq3$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:12:49 on Thu, 17 Jul
    2025, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> remarked:

    The question that you should have asked is:

    "My solicitor has lost an important and valuable document that they
    were storing for me - how do I obtain redress?".

    I was asking about the procedure the solicitor would undertake to
    rectify the situation. It will not require a complaint to get them to
    do it.

    I wouldn't expect them to do anything at all, unless shaken out of their
    apathy by formal complaint.
    --
    Roland Perry

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