I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to citizens (yet).
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to citizens (yet).
However it did strike me as a great money making wheeze for the UK. What
if the UK were to charge everyone - including it's own citizens - to
enter, if they happen to leave (for example on holiday).I mean iof
Obviously they could not deport anyone who didn't pay at the border.
However they could just send them a bill and enforce it via the usual mechanism for debt recovery.
I realise this is a highly "imaginative" scheme. And this being a legal newsgroup I would be curious as to the legalities around it, and whether
it is something that would be prohibited by some law, or treaty already ?
I am aware that parliament can do what it likes, so if there were to be
any a priori legal obstacles they could vote to remove them.
On 19/07/2025 11:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 forFrom what I read it doesn't apply to all travellers, but to those who
the privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to
citizens (yet).
However it did strike me as a great money making wheeze for the UK.
What if the UK were to charge everyone - including it's own citizens -
to enter, if they happen to leave (for example on holiday).I mean iof
Obviously they could not deport anyone who didn't pay at the border.
However they could just send them a bill and enforce it via the usual
mechanism for debt recovery.
I realise this is a highly "imaginative" scheme. And this being a legal
newsgroup I would be curious as to the legalities around it, and
whether it is something that would be prohibited by some law, or treaty
already ?
I am aware that parliament can do what it likes, so if there were to be
any a priori legal obstacles they could vote to remove them.
require a
non-immigrant visa.
On 19/07/2025 11:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the
privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to citizens
(yet).
No, that's not exactly true. It only applies to citizens of countries
not in the Visa Waiver Programme, ie only to those who currently require
a visa to visit. So, not UK or EU citizens at all.
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to citizens (yet).
However it did strike me as a great money making wheeze for the UK. What
if the UK were to charge everyone - including it's own citizens - to
enter, if they happen to leave (for example on holiday).I mean iof
Obviously they could not deport anyone who didn't pay at the border.
However they could just send them a bill and enforce it via the usual mechanism for debt recovery.
I realise this is a highly "imaginative" scheme. And this being a legal newsgroup I would be curious as to the legalities around it, and whether
it is something that would be prohibited by some law, or treaty already ?
I am aware that parliament can do what it likes, so if there were to be
any a priori legal obstacles they could vote to remove them.
Op 19/07/2025 om 11:59 schreef Norman Wells:
On 19/07/2025 11:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the >>> privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to citizens >>> (yet).
No, that's not exactly true. It only applies to citizens of countries
not in the Visa Waiver Programme, ie only to those who currently
require a visa to visit. So, not UK or EU citizens at all.
... which is a pity because I'd like to see my country of origin, Italy, charging thousands to Americans for the privilege of swamping tourist
resorts and increasing crime by attracting pickpockets.
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to citizens (yet).
However it did strike me as a great money making wheeze for the UK. What
if the UK were to charge everyone - including it's own citizens - to
enter, if they happen to leave (for example on holiday).I mean iof
Obviously they could not deport anyone who didn't pay at the border.
However they could just send them a bill and enforce it via the usual mechanism for debt recovery.
I realise this is a highly "imaginative" scheme. And this being a legal newsgroup I would be curious as to the legalities around it, and whether
it is something that would be prohibited by some law, or treaty already ?
I am aware that parliament can do what it likes, so if there were to be
any a priori legal obstacles they could vote to remove them.
On 2025-07-19, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for
the privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to
citizens (yet).
However it did strike me as a great money making wheeze for the UK.
What if the UK were to charge everyone - including it's own citizens -
to enter, if they happen to leave (for example on holiday).I mean iof
Obviously they could not deport anyone who didn't pay at the border.
However they could just send them a bill and enforce it via the usual
mechanism for debt recovery.
I realise this is a highly "imaginative" scheme. And this being a legal
newsgroup I would be curious as to the legalities around it, and
whether it is something that would be prohibited by some law, or treaty
already ?
I am aware that parliament can do what it likes, so if there were to be
any a priori legal obstacles they could vote to remove them.
So long as they're letting people in regardless, and chasing any debt
later, it seems like a purely internal matter and hence Parliament could certainly do it if it felt like it.
Op 19/07/2025 om 11:59 schreef Norman Wells:
On 19/07/2025 11:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the >>> privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to citizens >>> (yet).
No, that's not exactly true. It only applies to citizens of countries
not in the Visa Waiver Programme, ie only to those who currently
require a visa to visit. So, not UK or EU citizens at all.
... which is a pity because I'd like to see my country of origin, Italy, charging thousands to Americans for the privilege of swamping tourist
resorts and increasing crime by attracting pickpockets.
On 2025-07-19, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the
privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to citizens
(yet).
However it did strike me as a great money making wheeze for the UK. What
if the UK were to charge everyone - including it's own citizens - to
enter, if they happen to leave (for example on holiday).I mean iof
Obviously they could not deport anyone who didn't pay at the border.
However they could just send them a bill and enforce it via the usual
mechanism for debt recovery.
I realise this is a highly "imaginative" scheme. And this being a legal
newsgroup I would be curious as to the legalities around it, and whether
it is something that would be prohibited by some law, or treaty already ?
I am aware that parliament can do what it likes, so if there were to be
any a priori legal obstacles they could vote to remove them.
So long as they're letting people in regardless, and chasing any debt
later, it seems like a purely internal matter and hence Parliament
could certainly do it if it felt like it.
On 19/07/2025 01:34 PM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Op 19/07/2025 om 11:59 schreef Norman Wells:
On 19/07/2025 11:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for
the
privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to
citizens
(yet).
No, that's not exactly true. It only applies to citizens of countries
not in the Visa Waiver Programme, ie only to those who currently
require a visa to visit. So, not UK or EU citizens at all.
... which is a pity because I'd like to see my country of origin, Italy,
charging thousands to Americans for the privilege of swamping tourist
resorts and increasing crime by attracting pickpockets.
Quickest way to reduce turnover in tourist-dependent undustries.
On 19/07/2025 13:34, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Op 19/07/2025 om 11:59 schreef Norman Wells:
On 19/07/2025 11:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for
the
privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to
citizens
(yet).
No, that's not exactly true. It only applies to citizens of
countries not in the Visa Waiver Programme, ie only to those who
currently require a visa to visit. So, not UK or EU citizens at all.
... which is a pity because I'd like to see my country of origin,
Italy, charging thousands to Americans for the privilege of swamping
tourist resorts and increasing crime by attracting pickpockets.
I'm not sure that's a good idea.
It's just an AI generated thing from a Google search, but:
"In Italy, approximately 3.5 million people rely on tourism for their livelihoods. This includes a wide range of professions, from taxi
drivers and waiters to hoteliers and tour guides. Tourism also
contributes significantly to Italy's economy, representing 6.2% of the
total Gross Value Added (GVA) and supporting over 218,000 businesses. In 2019, the tourism industry directly employed 2.1 million people, or 8.8%
of all employment in Italy."
Why would you want to harm that?
On 19/07/2025 04:58 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2025-07-19, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the >>> privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to citizens >>> (yet).
However it did strike me as a great money making wheeze for the UK. What >>> if the UK were to charge everyone - including it's own citizens - to
enter, if they happen to leave (for example on holiday).I mean iof
Obviously they could not deport anyone who didn't pay at the border.
However they could just send them a bill and enforce it via the usual
mechanism for debt recovery.
I realise this is a highly "imaginative" scheme. And this being a legal
newsgroup I would be curious as to the legalities around it, and whether >>> it is something that would be prohibited by some law, or treaty
already ?
I am aware that parliament can do what it likes, so if there were to be
any a priori legal obstacles they could vote to remove them.
So long as they're letting people in regardless, and chasing any debt
later, it seems like a purely internal matter and hence Parliament
could certainly do it if it felt like it.
What do you mean, "if"?
Te current Labour government is determinrd to take no meaningful
measures against criminal immigration.
A bit of window-dressing, but that's the lot.
On Sat, 19 Jul 2025 15:58:42 +0000, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2025-07-19, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for
the privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to
citizens (yet).
However it did strike me as a great money making wheeze for the UK.
What if the UK were to charge everyone - including it's own citizens -
to enter, if they happen to leave (for example on holiday).I mean iof
Obviously they could not deport anyone who didn't pay at the border.
However they could just send them a bill and enforce it via the usual
mechanism for debt recovery.
I realise this is a highly "imaginative" scheme. And this being a legal
newsgroup I would be curious as to the legalities around it, and
whether it is something that would be prohibited by some law, or treaty
already ?
I am aware that parliament can do what it likes, so if there were to be
any a priori legal obstacles they could vote to remove them.
So long as they're letting people in regardless, and chasing any debt
later, it seems like a purely internal matter and hence Parliament could
certainly do it if it felt like it.
That was my feeling. However I wondered if there is some ancient statute
or interpretation of common law that might need to be addressed before it
was slipped into a bill somewhere.
On 19/07/2025 18:16, JNugent wrote:
On 19/07/2025 04:58 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote:Odd that.
On 2025-07-19, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the >>>> privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to citizens >>>> (yet).
However it did strike me as a great money making wheeze for the UK. What >>>> if the UK were to charge everyone - including it's own citizens - to
enter, if they happen to leave (for example on holiday).I mean iof
Obviously they could not deport anyone who didn't pay at the border.
However they could just send them a bill and enforce it via the usual
mechanism for debt recovery.
I realise this is a highly "imaginative" scheme. And this being a legal >>>> newsgroup I would be curious as to the legalities around it, and whether >>>> it is something that would be prohibited by some law, or treaty
already ?
I am aware that parliament can do what it likes, so if there were to be >>>> any a priori legal obstacles they could vote to remove them.
So long as they're letting people in regardless, and chasing any debt
later, it seems like a purely internal matter and hence Parliament
could certainly do it if it felt like it.
What do you mean, "if"?
Te current Labour government is determinrd to take no meaningful
measures against criminal immigration.
A bit of window-dressing, but that's the lot.
I mean, all the had to do was carry on the highly effective measures
used by the previous government...
Ah! Bit of a snag there.
Op 19/07/2025 om 15:36 schreef JNugent:
On 19/07/2025 01:34 PM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:Only 12% of Italy's GDP, and that includes all tourists, not just
Op 19/07/2025 om 11:59 schreef Norman Wells:
On 19/07/2025 11:38, Jethro_uk wrote:... which is a pity because I'd like to see my country of origin,
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for >>>>> the privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to
citizens (yet).
No, that's not exactly true. It only applies to citizens of
countries not in the Visa Waiver Programme, ie only to those who
currently require a visa to visit. So, not UK or EU citizens at all. >>>>
Italy,
charging thousands to Americans for the privilege of swamping tourist
resorts and increasing crime by attracting pickpockets.
Quickest way to reduce turnover in tourist-dependent undustries.
Americans. But you're free to drink the Koolaid that mass tourism makes
the locals richer and that the Pope is not Catholic.
Op 19/07/2025 om 16:15 schreef Norman Wells:
On 19/07/2025 13:34, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Op 19/07/2025 om 11:59 schreef Norman Wells:
On 19/07/2025 11:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250
for the
privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to
citizens
(yet).
No, that's not exactly true. It only applies to citizens of
countries not in the Visa Waiver Programme, ie only to those who
currently require a visa to visit. So, not UK or EU citizens at all.
... which is a pity because I'd like to see my country of origin,
Italy, charging thousands to Americans for the privilege of swamping
tourist resorts and increasing crime by attracting pickpockets.
I'm not sure that's a good idea.
It's just an AI generated thing from a Google search, but:
"In Italy, approximately 3.5 million people rely on tourism for their
livelihoods. This includes a wide range of professions, from taxi
drivers and waiters to hoteliers and tour guides. Tourism also
contributes significantly to Italy's economy, representing 6.2% of the
total Gross Value Added (GVA) and supporting over 218,000 businesses.
In 2019, the tourism industry directly employed 2.1 million people, or
8.8% of all employment in Italy."
Because it's Google AI and it's shite.
I have installed an extension
that hides it. Once I googled "who invented the guitar?" and Google AI
came up with Gibson.
Why would you want to harm that?
Are you so naive? Mass tourism drives prices up for the locals. It
destroys communities.
It devalues the cultural content of the place (I
have seen 1st hand Florence transformed into a giant vacation park for
the Yanks. I mean, the Yanks!).
One thing is gentrifying Croydon, another is gentrifying Cinque Terre.
I stopped going to Italy because I am fed up with mass tourism. Does my
money not count?
On 19/07/2025 18:16, JNugent wrote:
On 19/07/2025 04:58 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2025-07-19, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the >>>> privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to citizens >>>> (yet).
However it did strike me as a great money making wheeze for the UK. What >>>> if the UK were to charge everyone - including it's own citizens - to
enter, if they happen to leave (for example on holiday).I mean iof
Obviously they could not deport anyone who didn't pay at the border.
However they could just send them a bill and enforce it via the usual
mechanism for debt recovery.
I realise this is a highly "imaginative" scheme. And this being a legal >>>> newsgroup I would be curious as to the legalities around it, and whether >>>> it is something that would be prohibited by some law, or treaty
already ?
I am aware that parliament can do what it likes, so if there were to be >>>> any a priori legal obstacles they could vote to remove them.
So long as they're letting people in regardless, and chasing any debt
later, it seems like a purely internal matter and hence Parliament
could certainly do it if it felt like it.
What do you mean, "if"?
Te current Labour government is determinrd to take no meaningful
measures against criminal immigration.
A bit of window-dressing, but that's the lot.
Odd that.
I mean, all the had to do was carry on the highly effective measures
used by the previous government...
Ah! Bit of a snag there.
I stopped going to Italy because I am fed up with mass tourism. Does my
money not count?
Op 19/07/2025 om 15:36 schreef JNugent:
On 19/07/2025 01:34 PM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Op 19/07/2025 om 11:59 schreef Norman Wells:
On 19/07/2025 11:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250
for the
privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to
citizens
(yet).
No, that's not exactly true. It only applies to citizens of countries >>>> not in the Visa Waiver Programme, ie only to those who currently
require a visa to visit. So, not UK or EU citizens at all.
... which is a pity because I'd like to see my country of origin, Italy, >>> charging thousands to Americans for the privilege of swamping tourist
resorts and increasing crime by attracting pickpockets.
Quickest way to reduce turnover in tourist-dependent undustries.
Only 12% of Italy's GDP, and that includes all tourists, not just
Americans. But you're free to drink the Koolaid that mass tourism makes
the locals richer and that the Pope is not Catholic.
Op 19/07/2025 om 16:15 schreef Norman Wells:
On 19/07/2025 13:34, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Op 19/07/2025 om 11:59 schreef Norman Wells:
On 19/07/2025 11:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250
for the
privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to
citizens
(yet).
No, that's not exactly true. It only applies to citizens of
countries not in the Visa Waiver Programme, ie only to those who
currently require a visa to visit. So, not UK or EU citizens at all.
... which is a pity because I'd like to see my country of origin,
Italy, charging thousands to Americans for the privilege of swamping
tourist resorts and increasing crime by attracting pickpockets.
I'm not sure that's a good idea.
It's just an AI generated thing from a Google search, but:
"In Italy, approximately 3.5 million people rely on tourism for their
livelihoods. This includes a wide range of professions, from taxi
drivers and waiters to hoteliers and tour guides. Tourism also
contributes significantly to Italy's economy, representing 6.2% of the
total Gross Value Added (GVA) and supporting over 218,000 businesses.
In 2019, the tourism industry directly employed 2.1 million people, or
8.8% of all employment in Italy."
Because it's Google AI and it's shite. I have installed an extension
that hides it. Once I googled "who invented the guitar?" and Google AI
came up with Gibson.
Why would you want to harm that?
Are you so naive? Mass tourism drives prices up for the locals. It
destroys communities. It devalues the cultural content of the place (I
have seen 1st hand Florence transformed into a giant vacation park for
the Yanks. I mean, the Yanks!).
One thing is gentrifying Croydon, another is gentrifying Cinque Terre.
I stopped going to Italy because I am fed up with mass tourism. Does my
money not count?
On 19/07/2025 18:16, JNugent wrote:
On 19/07/2025 04:58 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote:Odd that.
On 2025-07-19, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for
the
privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to
citizens
(yet).
However it did strike me as a great money making wheeze for the UK.
What
if the UK were to charge everyone - including it's own citizens - to
enter, if they happen to leave (for example on holiday).I mean iof
Obviously they could not deport anyone who didn't pay at the border.
However they could just send them a bill and enforce it via the usual
mechanism for debt recovery.
I realise this is a highly "imaginative" scheme. And this being a legal >>>> newsgroup I would be curious as to the legalities around it, and
whether
it is something that would be prohibited by some law, or treaty
already ?
I am aware that parliament can do what it likes, so if there were to be >>>> any a priori legal obstacles they could vote to remove them.
So long as they're letting people in regardless, and chasing any debt
later, it seems like a purely internal matter and hence Parliament
could certainly do it if it felt like it.
What do you mean, "if"?
Te current Labour government is determinrd to take no meaningful
measures against criminal immigration.
A bit of window-dressing, but that's the lot.
I mean, all the had to do was carry on the highly effective measures
used by the previous government...
Ah! Bit of a snag there.
Op 19/07/2025 om 15:36 schreef JNugent:
On 19/07/2025 01:34 PM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Op 19/07/2025 om 11:59 schreef Norman Wells:
On 19/07/2025 11:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250
for the
privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to
citizens
(yet).
No, that's not exactly true. It only applies to citizens of countries >>>> not in the Visa Waiver Programme, ie only to those who currently
require a visa to visit. So, not UK or EU citizens at all.
... which is a pity because I'd like to see my country of origin, Italy, >>> charging thousands to Americans for the privilege of swamping tourist
resorts and increasing crime by attracting pickpockets.
Quickest way to reduce turnover in tourist-dependent undustries.
Only 12% of Italy's GDP, and that includes all tourists, not just
Americans. But you're free to drink the Koolaid that mass tourism makes
the locals richer and that the Pope is not Catholic.
Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> remarked:
I stopped going to Italy because I am fed up with mass tourism. Does
my money not count?
I stopped going to Cambridge (at weekends anyway) for the same reason in
the 70's. It's far worse now.
Or as some people say "Cambridge is so congested that soon no-one will
go there any more". That's a 'Result' as far as I'm concerned [a local].
In message <105gljj$2sca6$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:45:23 on Sat, 19 Jul
2025, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> remarked:
I stopped going to Italy because I am fed up with mass tourism. Does
my money not count?
I stopped going to Cambridge (at weekends anyway) for the same reason in
the 70's. It's far worse now.
Or as some people say "Cambridge is so congested that soon no-one will
go there any more". That's a 'Result' as far as I'm concerned [a local].
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the privilege. Fair enough.
Jethro_uk wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the
privilege. Fair enough.
The ESTA requirement has kept me away from the states,
this will double my reluctance to visit.
Jethro_uk wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for the
privilege. Fair enough.
The ESTA requirement has kept me away from the states, this will double
my reluctance to visit.
I stopped going to Italy because I am fed up with mass tourism. Does
my money not count?
I stopped going to Cambridge (at weekends anyway) for the same
reason in the 70's. It's far worse now.
Or as some people say "Cambridge is so congested that soon no-one
will go there any more". That's a 'Result' as far as I'm concerned [a >>local].
Is Cambridge as "Disneyfied" as Florence? Last time I was there it was
2007 and it wasn't too bad, but things change fast.
Op 19/07/2025 om 16:15 schreef Norman Wells:
On 19/07/2025 13:34, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Op 19/07/2025 om 11:59 schreef Norman Wells:
On 19/07/2025 11:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
I notice that all travellers to the US will soon be charged $250 for >>>>> the
privilege. Fair enough. I am presuming that this won't apply to
citizens
(yet).
No, that's not exactly true. It only applies to citizens of
countries not in the Visa Waiver Programme, ie only to those who
currently require a visa to visit. So, not UK or EU citizens at all.
... which is a pity because I'd like to see my country of origin,
Italy, charging thousands to Americans for the privilege of swamping
tourist resorts and increasing crime by attracting pickpockets.
I'm not sure that's a good idea.
It's just an AI generated thing from a Google search, but:
"In Italy, approximately 3.5 million people rely on tourism for their
livelihoods. This includes a wide range of professions, from taxi
drivers and waiters to hoteliers and tour guides. Tourism also
contributes significantly to Italy's economy, representing 6.2% of the
total Gross Value Added (GVA) and supporting over 218,000 businesses. In
2019, the tourism industry directly employed 2.1 million people, or 8.8%
of all employment in Italy."
Because it's Google AI and it's shite. I have installed an extension
that hides it. Once I googled "who invented the guitar?" and Google AI
came up with Gibson.
Why would you want to harm that?
Are you so naive? Mass tourism drives prices up for the locals. It
destroys communities. It devalues the cultural content of the place (I
have seen 1st hand Florence transformed into a giant vacation park for
the Yanks. I mean, the Yanks!).
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