• Ownership of meterites in UK ?

    From Jethro_uk@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 31 09:46:26 2025
    Who owns a meteorite that falls on their property in the UK ?

    (Question prompted by :

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/22/mars_rock_auction/


    The largest chunk of Mars yet discovered on Earth, a 54-pound (25kg)
    chunk of the Red Planet, has been purchased at auction for $5.3 million
    by an unknown bidder.

    The meteorite, dubbed NWA 16788, was discovered in the Sahara Desert on
    July 16, 2023, and is thought to have been blasted off the Martian
    surface by an impact from another meteorite. It then travelled 140
    million miles before partially burning up in our atmosphere and landing
    on the ground - a lucky shot for us humans, given around 70 percent of
    the Earth's surface is water.

    It's thought that only the largest 19 space rock strikes on Mars, as
    detectible through the size of the impact craters, would have been
    powerful enough to send the sample back to Earth. The rock, measuring 375
    x 279 x 152 mm (14¾ x 11 x 6 inches) and weighing 24.67 kilograms (54
    pounds), was checked by boffins in China and Italy to make sure it's the
    real deal, using data collected by the Viking Mars landers on the
    chemical composition of the planet's rocks.

    contd...

    )

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  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 31 12:11:36 2025
    In message <106fe1i$2nhr4$4@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:26 on Thu, 31 Jul
    2025, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
    Who owns a meteorite that falls on their property in the UK ?

    (Question prompted by :

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/22/mars_rock_auction/


    The largest chunk of Mars yet discovered on Earth, a 54-pound (25kg)
    chunk of the Red Planet, has been purchased at auction for $5.3 million
    by an unknown bidder.

    The meteorite, dubbed NWA 16788, was discovered in the Sahara Desert on
    July 16, 2023, and is thought to have been blasted off the Martian
    surface by an impact from another meteorite. It then travelled 140
    million miles before partially burning up in our atmosphere and landing
    on the ground - a lucky shot for us humans, given around 70 percent of
    the Earth's surface is water.

    It's thought that only the largest 19 space rock strikes on Mars, as >detectible through the size of the impact craters, would have been
    powerful enough to send the sample back to Earth. The rock, measuring 375
    x 279 x 152 mm (14¾ x 11 x 6 inches) and weighing 24.67 kilograms (54 >pounds), was checked by boffins in China and Italy to make sure it's the
    real deal, using data collected by the Viking Mars landers on the
    chemical composition of the planet's rocks.

    contd...

    Someone owned that bit of the Sahara Desert?
    --
    Roland Perry

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  • From Jethro_uk@21:1/5 to Roland Perry on Thu Jul 31 11:30:14 2025
    On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 12:11:36 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

    In message <106fe1i$2nhr4$4@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:26 on Thu, 31 Jul
    2025, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
    Who owns a meteorite that falls on their property in the UK ?

    (Question prompted by :

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/22/mars_rock_auction/


    The largest chunk of Mars yet discovered on Earth, a 54-pound (25kg)
    chunk of the Red Planet, has been purchased at auction for $5.3 million
    by an unknown bidder.

    The meteorite, dubbed NWA 16788, was discovered in the Sahara Desert on >>July 16, 2023, and is thought to have been blasted off the Martian
    surface by an impact from another meteorite. It then travelled 140
    million miles before partially burning up in our atmosphere and landing
    on the ground - a lucky shot for us humans, given around 70 percent of
    the Earth's surface is water.

    It's thought that only the largest 19 space rock strikes on Mars, as >>detectible through the size of the impact craters, would have been
    powerful enough to send the sample back to Earth. The rock, measuring
    375 x 279 x 152 mm (14¾ x 11 x 6 inches) and weighing 24.67 kilograms
    (54 pounds), was checked by boffins in China and Italy to make sure it's >>the real deal, using data collected by the Viking Mars landers on the >>chemical composition of the planet's rocks.

    contd...

    Someone owned that bit of the Sahara Desert?

    I have no idea. I was asking for a UK perspective.

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  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 31 13:40:14 2025
    In message <106fk46$2nhr4$6@dont-email.me>, at 11:30:14 on Thu, 31 Jul
    2025, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
    On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 12:11:36 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

    In message <106fe1i$2nhr4$4@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:26 on Thu, 31 Jul
    2025, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
    Who owns a meteorite that falls on their property in the UK ?

    (Question prompted by :

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/22/mars_rock_auction/


    The largest chunk of Mars yet discovered on Earth, a 54-pound (25kg) >>>chunk of the Red Planet, has been purchased at auction for $5.3 million >>>by an unknown bidder.

    The meteorite, dubbed NWA 16788, was discovered in the Sahara Desert on >>>July 16, 2023, and is thought to have been blasted off the Martian >>>surface by an impact from another meteorite. It then travelled 140 >>>million miles before partially burning up in our atmosphere and landing >>>on the ground - a lucky shot for us humans, given around 70 percent of >>>the Earth's surface is water.

    It's thought that only the largest 19 space rock strikes on Mars, as >>>detectible through the size of the impact craters, would have been >>>powerful enough to send the sample back to Earth. The rock, measuring
    375 x 279 x 152 mm (14¾ x 11 x 6 inches) and weighing 24.67 kilograms
    (54 pounds), was checked by boffins in China and Italy to make sure it's >>>the real deal, using data collected by the Viking Mars landers on the >>>chemical composition of the planet's rocks.

    contd...

    Someone owned that bit of the Sahara Desert?

    I have no idea. I was asking for a UK perspective.

    If it lands on a car (Barwell, 1965), and that's written off, maybe
    belongs to the insurance company? Although in that case the insurance
    company said it was "an Act of God" and refused to pay.
    --
    Roland Perry

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  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to Roland Perry on Thu Jul 31 13:58:52 2025
    On 31/07/2025 13:40, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <106fk46$2nhr4$6@dont-email.me>, at 11:30:14 on Thu, 31 Jul
    2025, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
    On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 12:11:36 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

    In message <106fe1i$2nhr4$4@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:26 on Thu, 31 Jul
    2025, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
    Who owns a meteorite that falls on their property in the UK ?

    (Question prompted by :

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/22/mars_rock_auction/


    The largest chunk of Mars yet discovered on Earth, a 54-pound (25kg)
    chunk of the Red Planet, has been purchased at auction for $5.3 million >>>> by an unknown bidder.

    The meteorite, dubbed NWA 16788, was discovered in the Sahara Desert on >>>> July 16, 2023, and is thought to have been blasted off the Martian
    surface by an impact from another meteorite. It then travelled 140
    million miles before partially burning up in our atmosphere and landing >>>> on the ground - a lucky shot for us humans, given around 70 percent of >>>> the Earth's surface is water.

    It's thought that only the largest 19 space rock strikes on Mars, as
    detectible through the size of the impact craters, would have been
    powerful enough to send the sample back to Earth. The rock, measuring
    375 x 279 x 152 mm (14¾ x 11 x 6 inches) and weighing 24.67 kilograms >>>> (54 pounds), was checked by boffins in China and Italy to make sure it's >>>> the real deal, using data collected by the Viking Mars landers on the
    chemical composition of the planet's rocks.

    contd...

    Someone owned that bit of the Sahara Desert?

    I have no idea. I was asking for a UK perspective.

    If it lands on a car (Barwell, 1965), and that's written off, maybe
    belongs to the insurance company? Although in that case the insurance
    company said it was "an Act of God" and refused to pay.

    Do you think that the insurance company might have had a different point
    of view if it had been worth $5.3 million?

    --
    Jeff

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  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com on Thu Jul 31 14:48:10 2025
    "Jethro_uk" <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote in message news:106fk46$2nhr4$6@dont-email.me...

    I have no idea. I was asking for a UK perspective.

    quote:

    Space Invaders: The legal status of meteorites in England and Wales

    Summary

    Considers the absence of law in England and Wales relating
    to ownership of a fallen meteorite.

    Discusses different possible approaches across the law relating
    to minerals, objects found, animals in a state of nature, treasure,
    Bona Vacantia and accretion.

    Advocates legislation in the area.

    unquote

    https://oro.open.ac.uk/87777/3/87777AAM.pdf

    It's an OU document, unfortumately undated; comprising 12 pages of closely reasoned argument with plenty of references

    And so pointless to quote in part



    bb





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  • From Roger Hayter@21:1/5 to Jeff Layman on Thu Jul 31 13:36:58 2025
    On 31 Jul 2025 at 13:58:52 BST, "Jeff Layman" <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 31/07/2025 13:40, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <106fk46$2nhr4$6@dont-email.me>, at 11:30:14 on Thu, 31 Jul
    2025, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
    On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 12:11:36 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

    In message <106fe1i$2nhr4$4@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:26 on Thu, 31 Jul >>>> 2025, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
    Who owns a meteorite that falls on their property in the UK ?

    (Question prompted by :

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/22/mars_rock_auction/


    The largest chunk of Mars yet discovered on Earth, a 54-pound (25kg) >>>>> chunk of the Red Planet, has been purchased at auction for $5.3 million >>>>> by an unknown bidder.

    The meteorite, dubbed NWA 16788, was discovered in the Sahara Desert on >>>>> July 16, 2023, and is thought to have been blasted off the Martian
    surface by an impact from another meteorite. It then travelled 140
    million miles before partially burning up in our atmosphere and landing >>>>> on the ground - a lucky shot for us humans, given around 70 percent of >>>>> the Earth's surface is water.

    It's thought that only the largest 19 space rock strikes on Mars, as >>>>> detectible through the size of the impact craters, would have been
    powerful enough to send the sample back to Earth. The rock, measuring >>>>> 375 x 279 x 152 mm (14¾ x 11 x 6 inches) and weighing 24.67 kilograms >>>>> (54 pounds), was checked by boffins in China and Italy to make sure it's >>>>> the real deal, using data collected by the Viking Mars landers on the >>>>> chemical composition of the planet's rocks.

    contd...

    Someone owned that bit of the Sahara Desert?

    I have no idea. I was asking for a UK perspective.

    If it lands on a car (Barwell, 1965), and that's written off, maybe
    belongs to the insurance company? Although in that case the insurance
    company said it was "an Act of God" and refused to pay.

    Do you think that the insurance company might have had a different point
    of view if it had been worth $5.3 million?

    They have a good contrual case for owning the broken car. I am unsure if that also applies to the meteorite. The moral seems to be that if your car is hit
    by a meteorite you should immediately retrieve the latter and take it home.

    --

    Roger Hayter

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  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 31 18:32:23 2025
    In message <106fpac$3l2oh$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:58:52 on Thu, 31 Jul
    2025, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> remarked:
    On 31/07/2025 13:40, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <106fk46$2nhr4$6@dont-email.me>, at 11:30:14 on Thu, 31 Jul
    2025, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
    On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 12:11:36 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

    In message <106fe1i$2nhr4$4@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:26 on Thu, 31 Jul >>>> 2025, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
    Who owns a meteorite that falls on their property in the UK ?

    (Question prompted by :

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/22/mars_rock_auction/


    The largest chunk of Mars yet discovered on Earth, a 54-pound (25kg) >>>>> chunk of the Red Planet, has been purchased at auction for $5.3 million >>>>> by an unknown bidder.

    The meteorite, dubbed NWA 16788, was discovered in the Sahara Desert on >>>>> July 16, 2023, and is thought to have been blasted off the Martian
    surface by an impact from another meteorite. It then travelled 140
    million miles before partially burning up in our atmosphere and landing >>>>> on the ground - a lucky shot for us humans, given around 70 percent of >>>>> the Earth's surface is water.

    It's thought that only the largest 19 space rock strikes on Mars, as >>>>> detectible through the size of the impact craters, would have been
    powerful enough to send the sample back to Earth. The rock, measuring >>>>> 375 x 279 x 152 mm (14¾ x 11 x 6 inches) and weighing 24.67 kilograms >>>>> (54 pounds), was checked by boffins in China and Italy to make sure it's >>>>> the real deal, using data collected by the Viking Mars landers on the >>>>> chemical composition of the planet's rocks.

    contd...

    Someone owned that bit of the Sahara Desert?

    I have no idea. I was asking for a UK perspective.
    If it lands on a car (Barwell, 1965), and that's written off, maybe
    belongs to the insurance company? Although in that case the insurance
    company said it was "an Act of God" and refused to pay.

    Do you think that the insurance company might have had a different
    point of view if it had been worth $5.3 million?

    Apparently he threw to stone away, so they'd not have been able to
    determine that. And being smaller (and long ago) probably not worth
    that much anyway.
    --
    Roland Perry

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  • From brian@21:1/5 to jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com on Thu Jul 31 19:40:21 2025
    In message <106fe1i$2nhr4$4@dont-email.me>, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> writes
    Who owns a meteorite that falls on their property in the UK ?

    (Question prompted by :

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/22/mars_rock_auction/


    The largest chunk of Mars yet discovered on Earth, a 54-pound (25kg)
    chunk of the Red Planet, has been purchased at auction for $5.3 million
    by an unknown bidder.

    The meteorite, dubbed NWA 16788, was discovered in the Sahara Desert on
    July 16, 2023, and is thought to have been blasted off the Martian
    surface by an impact from another meteorite. It then travelled 140
    million miles before partially burning up in our atmosphere and landing
    on the ground - a lucky shot for us humans, given around 70 percent of
    the Earth's surface is water.

    It's thought that only the largest 19 space rock strikes on Mars, as >detectible through the size of the impact craters, would have been
    powerful enough to send the sample back to Earth. The rock, measuring 375
    x 279 x 152 mm (14¾ x 11 x 6 inches) and weighing 24.67 kilograms (54 >pounds), was checked by boffins in China and Italy to make sure it's the
    real deal, using data collected by the Viking Mars landers on the
    chemical composition of the planet's rocks.

    contd...

    )

    I suppose it could be classed as a portable antiquity if it is of some
    value or scientific or archeological interest.
    Under Scots Common Law, landowners have no property rights to portable antiquities. This means that artefacts found on your land are Crown
    property, and need to be reported to Treasure Trove.

    I frequently find tennis balls and other objects in my garden . I assume
    foxes have left them, but they may well have fallen from the sky .I
    suppose in theory . they're now mine.

    Brian
    --
    Brian Howie

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  • From GB@21:1/5 to Roger Hayter on Thu Jul 31 20:21:52 2025
    On 31/07/2025 14:36, Roger Hayter wrote:

    They have a good contrual case for owning the broken car. I am unsure if that also applies to the meteorite. The moral seems to be that if your car is hit by a meteorite you should immediately retrieve the latter and take it home.


    I think I might check it with a Geiger Counter first.

    Yes, I know you don't have one handy, but Amazon offer quite a good
    selection for delivery by 1300 tomorrow.

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Roland Perry on Fri Aug 1 13:29:22 2025
    On 31/07/2025 13:40, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <106fk46$2nhr4$6@dont-email.me>, at 11:30:14 on Thu, 31 Jul
    2025, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
    On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 12:11:36 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

    In message <106fe1i$2nhr4$4@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:26 on Thu, 31 Jul
    2025, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
    Who owns a meteorite that falls on their property in the UK ?

    (Question prompted by :

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/22/mars_rock_auction/


    The largest chunk of Mars yet discovered on Earth, a 54-pound (25kg)
    chunk of the Red Planet, has been purchased at auction for $5.3 million >>>> by an unknown bidder.

    The meteorite, dubbed NWA 16788, was discovered in the Sahara Desert on >>>> July 16, 2023, and is thought to have been blasted off the Martian
    surface by an impact from another meteorite. It then travelled 140
    million miles before partially burning up in our atmosphere and landing >>>> on the ground - a lucky shot for us humans, given around 70 percent of >>>> the Earth's surface is water.

    It's thought that only the largest 19 space rock strikes on Mars, as
    detectible through the size of the impact craters, would have been
    powerful enough to send the sample back to Earth. The rock, measuring
    375 x 279 x 152 mm (14¾ x 11 x 6 inches) and weighing 24.67 kilograms >>>> (54 pounds), was checked by boffins in China and Italy to make sure
    it's
    the real deal, using data collected by the Viking Mars landers on the
    chemical composition of the planet's rocks.

    contd...

    Someone owned that bit of the Sahara Desert?

    I have no idea. I was asking for a UK perspective.

    If it lands on a car (Barwell, 1965), and that's written off, maybe
    belongs to the insurance company? Although in that case the insurance
    company said it was "an Act of God" and refused to pay.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35053786

    For anyone interested - total weight recovered 44kg.

    OTOH A meteorite large enough to seriously damage a vehicle (or house)
    is usually sufficiently valuable to repair or replace it with a new one. Collectors and museums will pay good money for interesting specimens.

    Having the fusion crust and/or being very dense nickel iron makes them
    more sought after. Scientists are more interested in the carbonaceous
    ones in pristine condition today (which look rather like sooty rock).

    Last decent UK meteorite fall was during Covid lockdown:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/16/meteorite-that-landed-in-cotswolds-may-solve-mystery-of-earths-water

    Very rare in the first place and even rarer for it to be found so soon
    after it arrived on Earth. Made it of exceptional scientific importance.

    If you happen to find one Ziplock bag it and seek advice from a museum (possibly in the opposite order). Important to protect it from
    terrestrial rain if at all possible.

    Iron micrometeorites can be separated from the black gunge that
    accumulates in plastic gutters by using a Nd magnet.

    I think because we use Roman law it is yours if it lands on your land
    but if it is found by someone else they have to share the proceeds with
    you ( a bit like with metal detecting of which this is a special case).

    --
    Martin Brown

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  • From GB@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 1 16:27:52 2025
    Prized historically, as well:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutankhamun%27s_meteoric_iron_dagger

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