• Re: Use of railway track as antenna for extremely low frequency radio

    From AnthonyL@21:1/5 to mb@nospam.net on Sun Sep 29 12:12:21 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 20:07:02 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 27/09/2024 18:32, Woody wrote:
    I have always been of the belief that the submarine transmission come
    from the huge aerial farm at Skelton alongside the B5305 in Cumbria.



    Not been past recently but I thought much of the antenna farm had gone?

    The VLF will be on the tall mast there, there is also Anthorn.


    Anthorn can barely reach my clock in the East Midlands :(


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

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  • From Woody@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Sun Sep 29 13:37:27 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    On Sun 29/09/2024 13:12, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 20:07:02 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 27/09/2024 18:32, Woody wrote:
    I have always been of the belief that the submarine transmission come
    from the huge aerial farm at Skelton alongside the B5305 in Cumbria.



    Not been past recently but I thought much of the antenna farm had gone?

    The VLF will be on the tall mast there, there is also Anthorn.


    Anthorn can barely reach my clock in the East Midlands :(


    Surprisingly DCF works well here in N Yorks!

    Anthorn needs the clock on a N-ish facing upstairs windowsill to
    (eventually) get the signal.

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  • From JMB99@21:1/5 to Woody on Sun Sep 29 19:32:31 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    On 29/09/2024 13:37, Woody wrote:
    Surprisingly DCF works well here in N Yorks!

    Anthorn needs the clock on a N-ish facing upstairs windowsill to
    (eventually) get the signal.


    I always find DCF77 works better here in the Highlands and is not
    switched off for maintenance. My first MSF clock had a large bar across
    the top to cancel the alarm in the morning, this also switched on the
    light and could easily get switched on in my suitcase so I would often
    take the battery out when travelling but this could be a problem if MSF
    was off.

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  • From JMB99@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Sun Sep 29 19:28:12 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    On 29/09/2024 13:12, AnthonyL wrote:
    Anthorn can barely reach my clock in the East Midlands



    You are probably not towing a thousand foot antenna behind you. :-)

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  • From NY@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 29 20:38:13 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    On 29/09/2024 19:32, JMB99 wrote:
    On 29/09/2024 13:37, Woody wrote:
    Surprisingly DCF works well here in N Yorks!

    Anthorn needs the clock on a N-ish facing upstairs windowsill to
    (eventually) get the signal.


    I always find DCF77 works better here in the Highlands and is not
    switched off for maintenance.  My first MSF clock had a large bar across
    the top to cancel the alarm in the morning, this also switched on the
    light and could easily get switched on in my suitcase so I would often
    take the battery out when travelling but this could be a problem if MSF
    was off.

    When I first met my wife 25 years ago, she had a mains-powered clock
    radio that got its time from a radio source - maybe MSF. Sadly there was
    no way to set the clock manually, and it sometimes took many hours to
    get a first fix, and at random it might set itself to a stupid time.
    After she had been woken up by the "8 o'clock" alarm going off at some godforsaken time in the middle of the night, or not going off it time
    for her to get to work, she turned of the alarm and bought a separate
    alarm clock.

    Are there any ordinary alarm clocks (ie not dedicated hardware like
    Alexa) which use internet NTP sources for synchronising with a time
    source, as opposed to MSF/DCF radio time source where reception may be
    more patchy? Until Alexa came along, I could imagine there was quite a
    market for that.

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  • From JMB99@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 29 21:43:53 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    On 29/09/2024 20:38, NY wrote:

    When I first met my wife 25 years ago, she had a mains-powered clock
    radio that got its time from a radio source - maybe MSF. Sadly there was
    no way to set the clock manually, and it sometimes took many hours to
    get a first fix, and at random it might set itself to a stupid time.
    After she had been woken up by the "8 o'clock" alarm going off at some godforsaken time in the middle of the night, or not going off it time
    for her to get to work, she turned of the alarm and bought a separate
    alarm clock.


    A couple of my older ones are like that and cannot be manually set.

    Also have some cheap ones, using DCF77, that seem to synchronise quicker
    if you set the time approximately to the correct time.

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  • From John Williamson@21:1/5 to Tweed on Fri Sep 27 18:12:16 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    On 27/09/2024 18:02, Tweed wrote:
    Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
    One late night I encountered this video suggesting that the entire
    East Coast Main Line from Kings Cross to Edinburgh was used as an
    antenna for communication with submarines:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd2czKHVb6k

    Reading the comments that follow, it looks like a lot of tosh but I
    thought I would share it with both groups anyway.


    An antenna laying on the ground isn’t going to work very well.

    There is, though a very long piece of electric string mounted about
    twenty feet up on that line.

    The load from motors and transformers should be inductive, so should not
    load the LW down too much.

    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.

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  • From Scott@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 27 17:50:09 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    One late night I encountered this video suggesting that the entire
    East Coast Main Line from Kings Cross to Edinburgh was used as an
    antenna for communication with submarines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd2czKHVb6k

    Reading the comments that follow, it looks like a lot of tosh but I
    thought I would share it with both groups anyway.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 27 18:39:42 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 18:32:01 +0100, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com>
    wrote:

    On Fri 27/09/2024 18:12, John Williamson wrote:
    On 27/09/2024 18:02, Tweed wrote:
    Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
    One late night I encountered this video suggesting that the entire
    East Coast Main Line from Kings Cross to Edinburgh was used as an
    antenna for communication with submarines:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd2czKHVb6k

    Reading the comments that follow, it looks like a lot of tosh but I
    thought I would share it with both groups anyway.


    An antenna laying on the ground isn’t going to work very well.

    There is, though a very long piece of electric string mounted about
    twenty feet up on that line.

    The load from motors and transformers should be inductive, so should not
    load the LW down too much.

    I have always been of the belief that the submarine transmission come
    from the huge aerial farm at Skelton alongside the B5305 in Cumbria. It
    is run by Babcock who do a lot of transmission for the MoD.

    This is indeed covered in the YouTube video.

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  • From Woody@21:1/5 to John Williamson on Fri Sep 27 18:32:01 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    On Fri 27/09/2024 18:12, John Williamson wrote:
    On 27/09/2024 18:02, Tweed wrote:
    Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
    One late night I encountered this video suggesting that the entire
    East Coast Main Line from Kings Cross to Edinburgh was used as an
    antenna for communication with submarines:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd2czKHVb6k

    Reading the comments that follow, it looks like a lot of tosh but I
    thought I would share it with both groups anyway.


    An antenna laying on the ground isn’t going to work very well.

    There is, though a very long piece of electric string mounted about
    twenty feet up on that line.

    The load from motors and transformers should be inductive, so should not
    load the LW down too much.


    I have always been of the belief that the submarine transmission come
    from the huge aerial farm at Skelton alongside the B5305 in Cumbria. It
    is run by Babcock who do a lot of transmission for the MoD.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JMB99@21:1/5 to Woody on Fri Sep 27 20:07:02 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    On 27/09/2024 18:32, Woody wrote:
    I have always been of the belief that the submarine transmission come
    from the huge aerial farm at Skelton alongside the B5305 in Cumbria.



    Not been past recently but I thought much of the antenna farm had gone?

    The VLF will be on the tall mast there, there is also Anthorn.

    Some years ago there was proposal for an ELF transmitter site but it
    was not never built.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Williamson@21:1/5 to Tweed on Fri Sep 27 20:45:05 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    On 27/09/2024 18:40, Tweed wrote:
    John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
    On 27/09/2024 18:02, Tweed wrote:
    Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
    One late night I encountered this video suggesting that the entire
    East Coast Main Line from Kings Cross to Edinburgh was used as an
    antenna for communication with submarines:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd2czKHVb6k

    Reading the comments that follow, it looks like a lot of tosh but I
    thought I would share it with both groups anyway.


    An antenna laying on the ground isn’t going to work very well.

    There is, though a very long piece of electric string mounted about
    twenty feet up on that line.

    The load from motors and transformers should be inductive, so should not
    load the LW down too much.


    Neutral sections break up the overhead line.

    The isolated sections are all long enough to work with the wavelengths used.

    I'm not saying that it is dome, just that it could be made to work.

    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Tweed on Sat Sep 28 09:15:45 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
    On 27/09/2024 18:40, Tweed wrote:
    John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
    On 27/09/2024 18:02, Tweed wrote:
    Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
    One late night I encountered this video suggesting that the entire >>>>> East Coast Main Line from Kings Cross to Edinburgh was used as an
    antenna for communication with submarines:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd2czKHVb6k

    Reading the comments that follow, it looks like a lot of tosh but I >>>>> thought I would share it with both groups anyway.


    An antenna laying on the ground isn’t going to work very well.

    There is, though a very long piece of electric string mounted about
    twenty feet up on that line.

    The load from motors and transformers should be inductive, so should not >>> load the LW down too much.


    Neutral sections break up the overhead line.

    The isolated sections are all long enough to work with the wavelengths used.

    I'm not saying that it is dome, just that it could be made to work.

    But that’s not the entire East Coast mainline. It’s a little bit.

    By adjusting the phasing in each section of the whole line, you could
    make it into a steerable array.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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  • From John Williamson@21:1/5 to Tweed on Sat Sep 28 09:16:20 2024
    XPost: uk.railway

    On 27/09/2024 21:26, Tweed wrote:
    John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
    On 27/09/2024 18:40, Tweed wrote:
    Neutral sections break up the overhead line.

    The isolated sections are all long enough to work with the wavelengths used. >>
    I'm not saying that it is dome, just that it could be made to work.

    But that’s not the entire East Coast mainline. It’s a little bit.

    Multiple phase locked sections. You might even be able to steer the beam
    to a degree.

    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.

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