Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Though off-topic this may be a subject that group members in the
broadcasting profession may have encountered. I have tinnitus in one
year. I had a hearing test this morning and the ear with the tinnitus
performed better than the ear without, which seems counter-intuitive.
Any ideas?
Across the whole spectrum or just at one frequency? (Think reaction in
a one-valve radio receiver.)
Though off-topic this may be a subject that group members in the
broadcasting profession may have encountered. I have tinnitus in one
year. I had a hearing test this morning and the ear with the tinnitus performed better than the ear without, which seems counter-intuitive.
Any ideas?
On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 20:36:37 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Though off-topic this may be a subject that group members in the
broadcasting profession may have encountered. I have tinnitus in one
year. I had a hearing test this morning and the ear with the tinnitus
performed better than the ear without, which seems counter-intuitive.
Any ideas?
Across the whole spectrum or just at one frequency? (Think reaction in
a one-valve radio receiver.)
Interesting you should ask that question. I participated in a tinnitus
trial at Manchester University and they established the tinnitus was
single tone, approximately 9 kHz. The hearing test stopped at about 8
kHz and covered a range of frequencies. I can see that the tinnitus is
away from the test range but at the same time I find it surprising
that the ear that has a defect (if indeed tinnitus is a condition of
the ear) performs better in a test.
On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 20:57:26 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 20:36:37 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Though off-topic this may be a subject that group members in the
broadcasting profession may have encountered. I have tinnitus in one
year. I had a hearing test this morning and the ear with the tinnitus
performed better than the ear without, which seems counter-intuitive.
Any ideas?
Across the whole spectrum or just at one frequency? (Think reaction in
a one-valve radio receiver.)
Interesting you should ask that question. I participated in a tinnitus >>trial at Manchester University and they established the tinnitus was
single tone, approximately 9 kHz. The hearing test stopped at about 8
kHz and covered a range of frequencies. I can see that the tinnitus is
away from the test range but at the same time I find it surprising
that the ear that has a defect (if indeed tinnitus is a condition of
the ear) performs better in a test.
Was the frequency determined objectively by the audiology technician
(how?)
Or subjectively, by comparing the perceived tone with a real one?
Though off-topic this may be a subject that group members in the
broadcasting profession may have encountered. I have tinnitus in one
year. I had a hearing test this morning and the ear with the tinnitus performed better than the ear without, which seems counter-intuitive.
Any ideas?
On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 00:12:44 +0000, Graham. <graham-usenet@mail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 20:57:26 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 20:36:37 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Though off-topic this may be a subject that group members in the
broadcasting profession may have encountered. I have tinnitus in one >>>> year. I had a hearing test this morning and the ear with the tinnitus >>>> performed better than the ear without, which seems counter-intuitive. >>>> Any ideas?
Across the whole spectrum or just at one frequency? (Think reaction in >>>a one-valve radio receiver.)
Interesting you should ask that question. I participated in a tinnitus >>trial at Manchester University and they established the tinnitus was >>single tone, approximately 9 kHz. The hearing test stopped at about 8
kHz and covered a range of frequencies. I can see that the tinnitus is >>away from the test range but at the same time I find it surprising
that the ear that has a defect (if indeed tinnitus is a condition of
the ear) performs better in a test.
Was the frequency determined objectively by the audiology technician
(how?)
Or subjectively, by comparing the perceived tone with a real one?
I wore a set of headphones. No sound in the right ear (the one with tinnitus). She then gradually ramped up the frequency of the sound in
my left ear and I was asked to indicate when the two tones were the
same. This led to the conclusion that it was pure tone 9 khz tinnitus.
I'm still not sure exactly what happened but could it be that the
tinnitus was caused by the receptors for a band of frequencies becoming high'Q' and almost oscillating on random noise? That would explain why
the ear with tinnitus was more sensitive around that range of
frequencies than the other one.
Another possible explanation of tinnitus is that it results from the sharpness of the cutoff of high frequencies. If you make a filter with
a very sharp cutoff, it exhibits a series of peaks and troughs near the cutoff frequency. The peaks can be very large, so they might account
for appartent increased sensitivity.
The cutoff point of hearing loss in humans is often very sharp and the
loss is very deep, so ordinary filter theory could explain what is going
on.
)
Interesting you should ask that question. I participated in a tinnitus >>>trial at Manchester University and they established the tinnitus was >>>single tone, approximately 9 kHz. The hearing test stopped at about 8
kHz and covered a range of frequencies. I can see that the tinnitus is >>>away from the test range but at the same time I find it surprising
that the ear that has a defect (if indeed tinnitus is a condition of
the ear) performs better in a test.
Was the frequency determined objectively by the audiology technician
(how?)
Or subjectively, by comparing the perceived tone with a real one?
I wore a set of headphones. No sound in the right ear (the one with >tinnitus). She then gradually ramped up the frequency of the sound in
my left ear and I was asked to indicate when the two tones were the
same. This led to the conclusion that it was pure tone 9 khz tinnitus.
Though off-topic this may be a subject that group members in the
broadcasting profession may have encountered. I have tinnitus in one
year. I had a hearing test this morning and the ear with the tinnitus performed better than the ear without, which seems counter-intuitive.
Any ideas?
On 28/11/2024 17:00, Scott wrote:
Though off-topic this may be a subject that group members in the
broadcasting profession may have encountered. I have tinnitus in one
year. I had a hearing test this morning and the ear with the tinnitus
performed better than the ear without, which seems counter-intuitive.
Any ideas?
What is tinnitus?
For several years I've experienced white noise in both ears. It varies
in intensity, I ignore it most of the time, and it doesn't bother me. Is
that tinnitus, or is the term only applied if it's bothersome?
On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 18:05:31 +0000, Max Demian
<max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
On 28/11/2024 17:00, Scott wrote:
Though off-topic this may be a subject that group members in the
broadcasting profession may have encountered. I have tinnitus in one
year. I had a hearing test this morning and the ear with the tinnitus
performed better than the ear without, which seems counter-intuitive.
Any ideas?
What is tinnitus?
For several years I've experienced white noise in both ears. It varies
in intensity, I ignore it most of the time, and it doesn't bother me. Is
that tinnitus, or is the term only applied if it's bothersome?
https://tinnitus.org.uk/understanding-tinnitus/what-is-tinnitus/
He said well you wont, its not an actual sound signal its a Pain source
and the brain interprets it as a sound. In fact if i move my lower jaw
around as far as it goes odd kHz whistle occurs not generally a problem
and not really a nuisance!...
various things
Though off-topic this may be a subject that group members in the
broadcasting profession may have encountered. I have tinnitus in one
year. I had a hearing test this morning and the ear with the tinnitus performed better than the ear without, which seems counter-intuitive.
Any ideas?
On 28/11/2024 17:00, Scott wrote:
Though off-topic this may be a subject that group members in the
broadcasting profession may have encountered. I have tinnitus in one
year. I had a hearing test this morning and the ear with the tinnitus
performed better than the ear without, which seems counter-intuitive.
Any ideas?
Various things:
Hearing loss is usually (but not always) caused by environmental damage. Single ear might, for example, be from the shooting range (an old friend
has this).
Mine is becoming severe, and I'm on my second set of digital hearing
aids (Phonak, NHS issue).
They are helpful, and one thing they do surprisingly well, is suppress tinnitus a bit.
My tinnitus is usually white noise, but can also be hammering
(infuriating!), and occasionally single, fairly pure tones. The latter
was more common when I was a lot younger, often at 900Hz or 1kHz -- I
put it down to some after-effect of studio line-ups.
When my hearing started to go, it was the tinnitus (mostly pink-noise-
ish hiss) that was the obvious issue. If I could only get rid of that,
I'd be fine. On a few occasions, it did actually go altogether, albeit momentarily.
I had a private session with an ENT surgeon (not contemplating actual surgery). Note: they're usually all misters -- it's a professional pride thing, so don't call them 'doctor' if it's incorrect!
My working hypothesis is that there are at least two mechanisms causing tinnitus:
Firstly, the brain tries to replace missing sound signals with something
its owner might deem 'useful'. It isn't.
Secondly, the ear accommodates a huge dynamic range. We know there are feedback loops, and the inner ear apparently even emits sound ("oto-
acoustic emissions").
My expectation is that, as sensitivity (considering the entire system) drops-off, "gain" increases to the point of instability. That's when one hears specific tinnitus sounds, etc. Prior to that, we have hiss,
equivalent to noise in an amplifier working at high gain.
Apparently it's not unusual for audio folks to develop a notch at 1kHz!
So back at my conversation with my consultant: he thought I'm not being silly, and intrigued by the amplification analogy, and that there must
be a feedback loop to cope with the huge dynamic range of normal
hearing, and that instability (i.e. tinnitus) might be a side-effect of
the system breaking down.
It's also likely that there isn't just one mechanism in play (don't
assume one root cause when there may be several!).
Sorry that the above is a bit rambly. I hope it's helpful.
Does anyone else have hyper-acuity too? That also fits with my model,
but it is all educated-guesswork, obviously.
On 03/02/2025 11:51, SimonM wrote:
various things
By the way after the above post, I realise I'\d
forgotten to mention that telly guys used also to
get a notch at 15.625kHz (presumably those of us
who could hear that high).
I have single-tone tinnitus at about 2 kHz (an estimate) equally in both ears, but it comes and goes depending on how I am feeling. If I am tired
or if I have an infection (a cold or flu) it is much more noticeable; if
I'm fit and well, I'm not aware of it.
On 03/02/2025 12:33, NY wrote:
I have single-tone tinnitus at about 2 kHz (an estimate) equally in
both ears, but it comes and goes depending on how I am feeling. If I
am tired or if I have an infection (a cold or flu) it is much more
noticeable; if I'm fit and well, I'm not aware of it.
I have heard it suggested that you can also develop a notch at 19 KHz, I
was once setting up a tone detector when someone complained that I had
19KHz running at quite a high level.
Was 19 kHz audible (by those with young enough hearing) on stereo FM >broadcasts, or did radios filter it out to a large extent?
I'm trying to remember how old I was when I first heard stereo FM radio. >Probably late teens. I was aware of an increase in hiss if the stereo
decoder was switched in - I had a radio which switched automatically but
the waveband switch (LF/MF/VHF) had an intermediate position which
turned the decoder off (probably by chance rather than design) which
made it easy to compare mono v stereo. The hiss probably masked any 19
kHz tone that may have "escaped" - always assuming that I could hear as
high as that by late teens. Actually, I can probably tell: I have some >off-air cassette recordings that I digitised. I wonder if any of those
show a 19 kHz spike.
I could certainly hear the 625/25 15.625 kHz line whistle when I was
younger. The last time I'd have heard it would have been on a CRT TV
that I sold in 2010; I doubt that LCD screens emit it, even though the
line rate is the same.
The 10.125 kHz 405/25 line whistle was really annoying. I'd last have
heard that in the late 70s, when we moved house, before I got rid of the
old 405 line TV that my grandpa had given me for my bedroom.
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 21:01:20 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
[snip]
Was 19 kHz audible (by those with young enough hearing) on stereo FM >broadcasts, or did radios filter it out to a large extent?
I thought VHF/FM stereo stopped at 15 kHz because of the pilot tone.
I'm trying to remember how old I was when I first heard stereo FM radio. >Probably late teens. I was aware of an increase in hiss if the stereo >decoder was switched in - I had a radio which switched automatically but >the waveband switch (LF/MF/VHF) had an intermediate position which
turned the decoder off (probably by chance rather than design) which
made it easy to compare mono v stereo. The hiss probably masked any 19
kHz tone that may have "escaped" - always assuming that I could hear as >high as that by late teens. Actually, I can probably tell: I have some >off-air cassette recordings that I digitised. I wonder if any of those
show a 19 kHz spike.
I think the 'stereo hiss' was taken as an indicator that the signal
strength was too low and a better aerial was needed. I believe a
stronger signal was needed for stereo than for mono.
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 21:01:20 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
[snip]
Was 19 kHz audible (by those with young enough hearing) on stereo FM
broadcasts, or did radios filter it out to a large extent?
I thought VHF/FM stereo stopped at 15 kHz because of the pilot tone.
I'm trying to remember how old I was when I first heard stereo FM radio.
Probably late teens. I was aware of an increase in hiss if the stereo
decoder was switched in - I had a radio which switched automatically but
the waveband switch (LF/MF/VHF) had an intermediate position which
turned the decoder off (probably by chance rather than design) which
made it easy to compare mono v stereo. The hiss probably masked any 19
kHz tone that may have "escaped" - always assuming that I could hear as
high as that by late teens. Actually, I can probably tell: I have some
off-air cassette recordings that I digitised. I wonder if any of those
show a 19 kHz spike.
I think the 'stereo hiss' was taken as an indicator that the signal
strength was too low and a better aerial was needed. I believe a
stronger signal was needed for stereo than for mono. Did car radios
not adjust depending on the signal?
I could certainly hear the 625/25 15.625 kHz line whistle when I was
younger. The last time I'd have heard it would have been on a CRT TV
that I sold in 2010; I doubt that LCD screens emit it, even though the
line rate is the same.
I'm not sure my high frequency hearing range was ever that good.
The 10.125 kHz 405/25 line whistle was really annoying. I'd last have
heard that in the late 70s, when we moved house, before I got rid of the
old 405 line TV that my grandpa had given me for my bedroom.
On 04/02/2025 09:02, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 21:01:20 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
[snip]
Was 19 kHz audible (by those with young enough hearing) on stereo FM
broadcasts, or did radios filter it out to a large extent?
I thought VHF/FM stereo stopped at 15 kHz because of the pilot tone.
I'm trying to remember how old I was when I first heard stereo FM radio. >>> Probably late teens. I was aware of an increase in hiss if the stereo
decoder was switched in - I had a radio which switched automatically but >>> the waveband switch (LF/MF/VHF) had an intermediate position which
turned the decoder off (probably by chance rather than design) which
made it easy to compare mono v stereo. The hiss probably masked any 19
kHz tone that may have "escaped" - always assuming that I could hear as
high as that by late teens. Actually, I can probably tell: I have some
off-air cassette recordings that I digitised. I wonder if any of those
show a 19 kHz spike.
I think the 'stereo hiss' was taken as an indicator that the signal
strength was too low and a better aerial was needed. I believe a
stronger signal was needed for stereo than for mono. Did car radios
not adjust depending on the signal?
Most of them had stereo-mono blend, so the stereo effect became less as
the signal got weaker.
I could certainly hear the 625/25 15.625 kHz line whistle when I was
younger. The last time I'd have heard it would have been on a CRT TV
that I sold in 2010; I doubt that LCD screens emit it, even though the
line rate is the same.
I'm not sure my high frequency hearing range was ever that good.
The 10.125 kHz 405/25 line whistle was really annoying. I'd last have
heard that in the late 70s, when we moved house, before I got rid of the >>> old 405 line TV that my grandpa had given me for my bedroom.
405 line TVs interfered with LW radio through the mains - even though we >didn't have a TV. I don't think the whistle was a high frequency though.
I fixed it by wiring a capacitor across the mains transformer secondary
until the capacitor fused and blew the transformer.
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 21:01:20 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
I could certainly hear the 625/25 15.625 kHz line whistle when I was
younger. The last time I'd have heard it would have been on a CRT TV
that I sold in 2010; I doubt that LCD screens emit it, even though the
line rate is the same.
I'm not sure my high frequency hearing range was ever that good.
My bedroom was above the living room, where the TV was, and interfered
with medium wave as well. I considered reporting my parents to the
Post Office for causing radio interference but on reflection decided
against this :-)
It's amazing the things that generate RFI.
On 04/02/2025 14:49, NY wrote:
It's amazing the things that generate RFI.
The best example was a radar station along the North Wales coast that
kept getting interference.
Eventually found to be when a WAAF went to use the ladies' bog, the
light bulb in the latrine had a filament that produced RF noise when
turned on.
On 04/02/2025 15:10, JMB99 wrote:
On 04/02/2025 14:49, NY wrote:
It's amazing the things that generate RFI.
The best example was a radar station along the North Wales coast that
kept getting interference.
Eventually found to be when a WAAF went to use the ladies' bog, the
light bulb in the latrine had a filament that produced RF noise when
turned on.
Blimey. A filament lamp that generated RF in the 400 MHz to 40 GHz
range. I bet they couldn't make another like it if they tried.
Blimey. A filament lamp that generated RF in the 400 MHz to 40 GHz
range. I bet they couldn't make another like it if they tried.
On 04/02/2025 20:09, NY wrote:
Blimey. A filament lamp that generated RF in the 400 MHz to 40 GHz
range. I bet they couldn't make another like it if they tried.
WWII radar, CHL or CH.
In article <GXWdndaHctic6T_6nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
Blimey. A filament lamp that generated RF in the 400 MHz to 40 GHz
range. I bet they couldn't make another like it if they tried.
in our office one of the fluorescent fittings interfered with the TV remote control
A filament which is purely resistive, with (presumably) a constant resistance, is more difficult to explain. Unless the filament was broken
and was making intermittent contact (mostly on with occasional periods
of off).
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