I think one of the main problems I'm having with Thunderbird is that I
have a memory of something else three-pane - list of newsgroups on the
left, list of post subjects top right, text of a post bottom right -
where it was easy, from the keybaord, to move focus between the three: I
think the tab key did it. (Might have been Outlook Express! Or Outlook.)

Say I'm in the 'groups list; the current group is highlighted. I could
use the up/down keys to move to a different 'group. Press tab (if it was
that), and focus moved to the list of posts - again, I could move up and
down between posts. I think spacebar moved through the text of a post
(and moved to the next one when I got to the end of one).

In modern TB, I can't find an obvious way to move focus from the
keyboard. Especially, if I decide to post a followup to a post: when
I've sent it, the only way I can find to return to spacing through the
posts is to click in the text area; I don't like using the mouse when
I'm doing mostly text things, which reading newsgroups (the ones I read
anyway) is.

Am I missing an obvious keyboard way of making spacebar work again (move through the next unread posts) after Ctrl-enter-ing to send a post? Or
to move focus from list-of-newsgroup-names to list-of-posts (and back -
I expected shift-tab for that)?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf


--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

I think one of the main problems I'm having with Thunderbird is that I
have a memory of something else three-pane - list of newsgroups on the
left, list of post subjects top right, text of a post bottom right -
where it was easy, from the keybaord, to move focus between the three: I think the tab key did it. (Might have been Outlook Express! Or Outlook.)

Say I'm in the 'groups list; the current group is highlighted. I could
use the up/down keys to move to a different 'group. Press tab (if it was that), and focus moved to the list of posts - again, I could move up and
down between posts. I think spacebar moved through the text of a post
(and moved to the next one when I got to the end of one).

In modern TB, I can't find an obvious way to move focus from the
keyboard. Especially, if I decide to post a followup to a post: when
I've sent it, the only way I can find to return to spacing through the
posts is to click in the text area; I don't like using the mouse when
I'm doing mostly text things, which reading newsgroups (the ones I read anyway) is.

Am I missing an obvious keyboard way of making spacebar work again (move through the next unread posts) after Ctrl-enter-ing to send a post? Or
to move focus from list-of-newsgroup-names to list-of-posts (and back -
I expected shift-tab for that)?

For the last few weeks I have been unable to read any of your posts
because they were in code which my newsreader cannot translate. I
wouldn't willingly have kill-filed you, but the effect was the same.

This post has suddenly become readable, so could you do your other
replies the same way please, as I find your contributions worthwhile and
have been sorry to miss them.


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

I think one of the main problems I'm having with Thunderbird is that I
have a memory of something else three-pane - list of newsgroups on the
left, list of post subjects top right, text of a post bottom right -
where it was easy, from the keybaord, to move focus between the three: I think the tab key did it.

In TB, it's meant to be F6 (or ctrl-F6) to cycle around the three panes,
I've never used it, and checking now, it doesn't seem to work for me.

The functionality may have been lost in the recent Supernova/Nebula changes?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

For the last few weeks I have been unable to read any of your posts
because they were in code which my newsreader cannot translate.

It's pretty easy to use just one "weird" character in a message, and
that forces Thunderbird into using UTF-8 with base-64 encoding, most non-ancient newsreaders will cope with that and users won't even know
it's going on ...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Andy Burns wrote:

It's pretty easy to use just one "weird" character in a message, and
that forces Thunderbird into using UTF-8 with base-64 encoding

I can see it happened to John's replies in the DAB aerial thread, but
it's not clear what the offending character was?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

The functionality may have been lost in the recent Supernova/Nebula
changes?

There seem to be a lot of people unhappy.

Those of us using TB since the day dot, have found tweaks and
workarounds to make it look/behave pretty close to the old versions,
others have stuck with the old versions themselves.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

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Unreadable again.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

Unreadable again.

Maybe John has a tendency to use two spaces after a fullstop at the end
of sentences? That can tempt TB into substituting a non-breaking space,
which then needs UTF-8

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"J. P. Gilliver" wrote:

On 2025/6/22 13:37:19, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

For the last few weeks I have been unable to read any of your posts
because they were in code which my newsreader cannot translate. I
wouldn't willingly have kill-filed you, but the effect was the same.

This post has suddenly become readable, so could you do your other
replies the same way please, as I find your contributions worthwhile and
have been sorry to miss them.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of anything I did differently with that [...]

Apart from when you use non-ASCII characters (UTF-8), there's a null
byte as the 2nd line of your sig. When it's follwed by another quote
(your OP wasn't) the body gets base64-encoded. Your post's sig:

J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
[null]
It's quickly getting to a place where privacy will be cause for
suspicion. - Mayayana in alt.windows7.general, 2018-11-6.

I don't use Thunderbox, but am reliably informed if you go into
"about:config", wherever that is, and set this option:

mail.strictly_mime

to False, it won't do the encoding. There are other options with
simailar naming but only that needs to be changed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

Unreadable again.

Maybe John has a tendency to use two spaces after a fullstop at the end
of sentences? That can tempt TB into substituting a non-breaking space, which then needs UTF-8

There was no sign of any problems until 3 days ago.


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.software.thunderbird

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

Apd wrote:

I've just gone into the .sig for this one, deleted so that DNAf was

adjacent to ", then put two linefeeds in so that it looks as vefore (i.
e. a blank line before ").

And the message didn't "suffer" base64 encoding

I don't use Thunderbox, but am reliably informed if you go into
"about:config", wherever that is, and set this option:
mail.strictly_mime
to False, it won't do the encoding.

I think the required setting is actually
mail.strictly_mime_headers=false
rather than
mail.strictly_mime=false

But you'll probably get complaints from a different set up people for
turning it off ...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.software.thunderbird

Also crossposted to the Thunderbird 'group.

On 2025/6/22 17:17:22, Apd wrote:

"J. P. Gilliver" wrote:

On 2025/6/22 13:37:19, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

For the last few weeks I have been unable to read any of your posts
because they were in code which my newsreader cannot translate. I
wouldn't willingly have kill-filed you, but the effect was the same.

This post has suddenly become readable, so could you do your other
replies the same way please, as I find your contributions worthwhile and >>> have been sorry to miss them.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of anything I did differently with that [...]

Apart from when you use non-ASCII characters (UTF-8), there's a null
byte as the 2nd line of your sig. When it's follwed by another quote
(your OP wasn't) the body gets base64-encoded. Your post's sig:

J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf [null]
It's quickly getting to a place where privacy will be cause for
suspicion. - Mayayana in alt.windows7.general, 2018-11-6.

I've just gone into the .sig for this one, deleted so that DNAf was
adjacent to ", then put two linefeeds in so that it looks as vefore (i.
e. a blank line before ").>

I don't use Thunderbox, but am reliably informed if you go into "about:config", wherever that is, and set this option:

I remembered I'd seen a way into editing those things - a button at the
bottom of a settings page ...>

mail.strictly_mime

to False, it won't do the encoding. There are other options with

... and that was/is (I haven't changed it) already set to false. I've
also - I _hope_ - not used any extended characters in this post.

simailar naming but only that needs to be changed.

I do fear it might be worth Liz implementing a decoder though: I too

resent excessive and unnecessary complexity, but when there's a
situation like this one where some clients implement coding without even telling the sender, it might be time to give up.

(Oh, I do my best to use plain text only if I can. I _think_ I have for
this post - I certainly don't see the formatting buttons [bold, italic,
etc.] above where I'm typing. I use the old _u_ /i/ *b* conventions,
which _should_ not cause any coding. [Actually I rarely use other than
_u_ {which YouTube understands to mean italic}.])
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Does Barbie come with Ken?"
"Barbie comes with G.I. Joe. She fakes it with Ken." - anonymous

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.software.thunderbird

"J. P. Gilliver" wrote:

Also crossposted to the Thunderbird 'group.

On 2025/6/22 17:17:22, Apd wrote:

[...]

I don't use Thunderbox, but am reliably informed if you go into
"about:config", wherever that is, and set this option:

I remembered I'd seen a way into editing those things - a button at the bottom of a settings page ...

mail.strictly_mime

to False, it won't do the encoding. There are other options with

... and that was/is (I haven't changed it) already set to false.

In that case, I've been misinformed or something has changed in a more
recent TB release. Perhaps other settings need to be tweaked as well
or instead.

I've also - I _hope_ - not used any extended characters in this post.

You haven't.

I do fear it might be worth Liz implementing a decoder though:

There are utilities available to decode base64 and websites where you
can do these conversions by pasting into a textbox.

I too resent excessive and unnecessary complexity, but when there's a situation like this one where some clients implement coding without even telling the sender, it might be time to give up.

My impression is thet TB is primarily an email client and the devs
don't have much interest in the nntp functionality. You've mentioned
preferring the keyboard over the GUI, in which case you might like a command-line type interface such as slrn uses. Of course, that's going
to be a learning curve.

(Oh, I do my best to use plain text only if I can. I _think_ I have for
this post [...]

Yes, the post is not encoded and the sig is corrected.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.software.thunderbird

On 2025/6/22 19:57:37, Andy Burns wrote:

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

Apd wrote:

I've just gone into the .sig for this one, deleted so that DNAf was

adjacent to ", then put two linefeeds in so that it looks as vefore
(i. e. a blank line before ").

And the message didn't "suffer" base64 encoding

I don't use Thunderbox, but am reliably informed if you go into
"about:config", wherever that is, and set this option:
mail.strictly_mime
to False, it won't do the encoding.

I think the required setting is actually
mail.strictly_mime_headers=false
rather than
mail.strictly_mime=false

But you'll probably get complaints from a different set up people for
turning it off ...

When I found the editor again (it's well hidden!), and typed as far as

mail.strictl

into the box, it only shows two: mail.strictly_mime (which is still set
to false), and mail.strictly_mime.parm_folding, which is set to 1. No
sign of mail.strictly_mime_headers . I've added it, and changed it to false.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf


--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

Also crossposted to the Thunderbird 'group.

On 2025/6/22 17:17:22, Apd wrote:

"J. P. Gilliver" wrote:

On 2025/6/22 13:37:19, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

For the last few weeks I have been unable to read any of your posts
because they were in code which my newsreader cannot translate. I
wouldn't willingly have kill-filed you, but the effect was the same.

This post has suddenly become readable, so could you do your other
replies the same way please, as I find your contributions worthwhile and >>> have been sorry to miss them.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of anything I did differently with that [...]

Apart from when you use non-ASCII characters (UTF-8), there's a null
byte as the 2nd line of your sig. When it's follwed by another quote
(your OP wasn't) the body gets base64-encoded. Your post's sig:

J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf [null]
It's quickly getting to a place where privacy will be cause for
suspicion. - Mayayana in alt.windows7.general, 2018-11-6.

I've just gone into the .sig for this one, deleted so that DNAf was
adjacent to ", then put two linefeeds in so that it looks as vefore (i.
e. a blank line before ").>

I don't use Thunderbox, but am reliably informed if you go into "about:config", wherever that is, and set this option:

I remembered I'd seen a way into editing those things - a button at the bottom of a settings page ...>

mail.strictly_mime

to False, it won't do the encoding. There are other options with

... and that was/is (I haven't changed it) already set to false. I've
also - I _hope_ - not used any extended characters in this post.

simailar naming but only that needs to be changed.

That was perfectly readable, so it seems you have corrected the problem.
ASCII is specified as the correct coding for Usenat and my newsreader,
MacSOUP 2.4.6., has no difficulty reading it.

I do fear it might be worth Liz implementing a decoder though:

Later versions of my newsreader won't run on this machine and I think
they are ASCII-only too.

I too
resent excessive and unnecessary complexity, but when there's a
situation like this one where some clients implement coding without even telling the sender, it might be time to give up.

Three levels of 'wrong':

1) Change coding for no good reason.

2) Do it automatically without the user requesting it.

3) Don't tell the user you've done it.



--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.software.thunderbird

I can't figure out who wrote:

I do fear it might be worth Liz implementing a decoder though

I asked a fiendly MacSoup user, and he said it's likely not possible.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

That was perfectly readable, so it seems you have corrected the problem. ASCII is specified as the correct coding for Usenat and my newsreader, MacSOUP 2.4.6., has no difficulty reading it.

RFC5537 says

"Using a charset of US-ASCII where possible is
therefore RECOMMENDED; if not possible, UTF-8 SHOULD be used."

Where thunderbird trips up, is needlessly changing encoding as well as
changing charset, RFC2045 does allow base64 though.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 22/06/2025 14:19, Andy Burns wrote:

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

For the last few weeks I have been unable to read any of your posts
because they were in code which my newsreader cannot translate.

It's pretty easy to use just one "weird" character in a message, and
that forces Thunderbird into using UTF-8 with base-64 encoding, most non-ancient newsreaders will cope with that and users won't even know
it's going on ...

Like 'TOYS "Я" US'?

--
Max Demian

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 23/06/2025 15:06, Max Demian wrote:

On 22/06/2025 14:19, Andy Burns wrote:

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

For the last few weeks I have been unable to read any of your posts
because they were in code which my newsreader cannot translate.

It's pretty easy to use just one "weird" character in a message, and
that forces Thunderbird into using UTF-8 with base-64 encoding, most
non-ancient newsreaders will cope with that and users won't even know
it's going on ...

Like 'TOYS "Я" US'?

The revolutionary R has only "forced" your TB to switch to

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

not
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
like most folk ... what have you got as your "strictly" settings in about:config?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 23/06/2025 15:21, Andy Burns wrote:

On 23/06/2025 15:06, Max Demian wrote:

On 22/06/2025 14:19, Andy Burns wrote:

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

For the last few weeks I have been unable to read any of your posts
because they were in code which my newsreader cannot translate.

It's pretty easy to use just one "weird" character in a message, and
that forces Thunderbird into using UTF-8 with base-64 encoding, most
non-ancient newsreaders will cope with that and users won't even know
it's going on ...

Like 'TOYS "Я" US'?

The revolutionary R has only "forced" your TB to switch to

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

not
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
like most folk ... what have you got as your "strictly" settings in about:config?

How do I access that?

--
Max Demian

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Max Demian wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

what have you got as your "strictly" settings in

about:config?

How do I access that?

Tools > Settings > General > ConfigEditor
and do a partial search for strictly

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 23/06/2025 18:23, Andy Burns wrote:

Max Demian wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

what have you got as your "strictly" settings in

about:config?

How do I access that?

Tools > Settings > General > ConfigEditor
and do a partial search for strictly

It says Boolean and true when I click the +

--
Max Demian

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)