XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.system
Frank Slootweg wrote:
I honestly & openly admit I was wrong and I publicly apologize to you.
Thanks. No problem.
<begin philosophical discussion on the origin of Usenet disputes>
Thank you for being gracious, as I had made _multiple_ sequential mistakes.
a. I was wrong from the start
b. When you said I was wrong, I didn't even bother to check
c. It's only when you were patient enough (to your credit) to
_repeat_ I was wrong, that I bothered to check (my second fault).
We've both been on Usenet since just about when it was created.
On Usenet, disputes are commonplace, most of which are merely a case of
clarity (e.g., when you and I discussed the ability to change nntp
headers), while others are strange cases of defending the undefendable
(such as how nospam defends Apple), while still others are even stranger
cases of apparently purposeful deceit (e.g., Verizon coverage compared to T-Mobile with Steve), etc., and some are a result of belligerent ignorance (e.g., almost anything out of Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger, Lewis, et al.),
and some are just plain old mistakes (like what I just did to you).
a. clarity
b. duplicity
c. deceit
d. ignorance
e. mistakes
We go way back, you and me, where I'm well aware you consider me a troll,
and yet I remember (fondly so, actually) how well you educated me on the
port issues with SMB when I was desperately trying to get an Android SMB
client to work with the Windows servers. It just can't be done (unrooted).
Then you turned me on to FTPUse, but by then I had already found WebDAV
which works so well I never looked back after that, especially now with adb working seamlessly over Wi-FI without a USB cable since around Android 11.
On the point of clarity...
I don't know if you remember the nntp header example, but I understood only years later _why_ you so strongly objected to what I had said to an iKook.
Taking into account no adult disputes facts - only fools do that...
I had initially been surprised you disputed what I had said about headers.
It was only _years later_ I realized _why_ you disputed what I had said.
It was a case of clarity...
The "clarity" part was I had been quite casually dismissively responding to
an ignorant iKook who was claiming (as I recall) that the User-Agent:
couldn't be spoofed - or maybe it was some other easily modified header -
and my glib response to that ignorant iKook was that any of the headers can
be spoofed - to which you objected.
At the time, I objected to your objection...
It was only years later that I realized what your objection was, which is
that you are correct that not every line in the nntp header is completely
under the control of the sender - which I would never dispute.
Keeping in mind the maxim - only a fool disputes facts...
My point on "clarity" is that my glib response to an iKook is at the proper level for responding to that Kook - but you didn't know I had made that determination. You took it at face value - which is a fair way to take it.
In my mind, in terms of clarity, clearly had I made that response to you,
an nntp server admin, then I'd have to get into the detail of the injected headers, and even perhaps into the "partially injected" headers like PATH:.
You are well above others in this regard so I'd even have to get into the
fact the DATE and the TIMEZONE are 100% in the control of the user, while
most of the injected headers are only in control of the user to the point
that they can choose their nntp server (who chooses what to inject).
But most people don't know this and, as a result of their ignorance, they
put way too much value in their self-assessed ability to divine headers.
In fact even you have claimed, in the past, as I recall, that you can
divine _my_ headers, and once or twice you were right as you told me that
my timezone was showing up oddly (which it was) - but which I then fixed.
Another time, as I recall, you found a typo in one of my headers, which I fixed, and then, after that I saw you say to someone you can _still_ tell
me from my header but you're not gonna publicly say what lest I see it. :)
At this point, I don't think you can tell me from my header alone, but of course there are telltale bits of information in the injected lines I can't control if you know what bits to look for (I do).
Other than in the injected bits, I do not think you can tell me from my
header but if you can, that's fine - but my argument has always been that
I've been posting the same detailed screenshots & tutorials for years,
where I _assume_ they can figure out my posts in seconds.
And yet, I've seen even Andy Burns recently being accused of being me, not
for his headers but for "blowing smoke" up the butt of this thread's OP.
Can you believe that?
Another person, I don't remember who (was it badgolferman?) was accused of being me this week simply for having AIOE's IP address in the PATH:.
Yet another recent case in which you responded in the negative was sms
being accused of being me, which is a classic case since Steve, like I, deprecates Apple when necessary and yet uses Apple & Android
interchangeably. As an aside, I wasn't sure why you claimed "one of us"
calls the other names, where it was clear whom you had in mind, but you
just need to keep in mind I call it like it is - and in the cases you're
likely referencing, its when I respond to Steve's "political" views (which,
in my pragmatic realpolitik, are far to the left... so far that he thinks
the middle is far to the right - so he & I will never agree on politics).
If you combine the fact Steve knows nothing about "Covid" in so much as he knows what the hoi polloi knows, but he doesn't have my background in
virology, immunology, physiology, biochemistry, etc. that I have... if you combine that with his leftist leanings of using the government to control
the population... and then you add his extremely strong (risk avoidance
that I simply don't have... the result is just as you accurately stated.
Nobody who is an adult with sufficient neuronal tissue to form a synapse
would confuse the two of us even if we used EXACTLY the same headers!
And yet... they did accuse sms of being me!
You can see why I smile every time this happen, since they're just guessing
or they're divining headers (which are "almost" meaningless for their
purposes) - and yes - I know the choice of nntp servers and the selection
on an _account_ on that nntp server - and the specific VPN IP address used
for sending messages to that nntp server - change the headers).
Anyway, apart from your field of experience with nntp headers, the source
of disagreements on Usenet seem, to me, to be of five origins.
A. Clarity
Our personal disagreement on headers turned out NOT to be based on
the facts, but to lack of "clarity" of my offhand discourse with iKooks.
B. Duplicity
Virtual any disagreement with nospam would provide an example of
his "duplicity" in virtually every response (for reasons unknown).
C. Deceit
Similarly for reasons unknown, Steve provides "deceitful" images
on Verizon/T-Mobile coverage which are knowingly doctored & erroneous.
d. Ignorance
Example abound of the hoi polloi iOS owner being "ignorant" of
how well and for how long Android now updates over iOS.
e. Mistakes
This case above is my "mistake" in that I thought you said something,
when, in fact, we had independently agreed on every point you made.
While some of our personal disagreements were the result of "clarity" and "mistakes", the wonderful thing about our relationship (yes, I know you
dislike me intensely) is that NONE of our disagreements (to my knowledge)
have been the result of "duplicity", "deceit" or "ignorance".
Which is as it should be.
(no reciprocal response expected)
--
Posted in permanent Usenet archives noting I did update the "wrong" thread.
*Updating the "wrong - by badgolferman" thread from May 29, 2019*
<
https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/Pg9fi_sV3CU>
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