• Re: Complete and unified documentation for new maintainers

    From Andrey Rakhmatullin@21:1/5 to Fabio Fantoni on Sat Jan 11 14:10:01 2025
    On Sat, Jan 11, 2025 at 01:49:33PM +0100, Fabio Fantoni wrote:
    I don't know if I've managed to explain well what I mean, but from what I've seen over the years, most of the people I've seen trying to approach packaging have had difficulty finding documentation and help (even on mentors, although it seems to have improved recently)

    Yeah, not sure if that's your point but I think everyone agrees that we
    need a good new packager document and while there were some attempts in
    the past (see links on https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers/ )
    there is still AFAIK no comprehensive and modern one. debmake-doc is the
    only one that tries to be modern, not sure how successful is it in that.


    --
    WBR, wRAR

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  • From Fabio Fantoni@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 11 13:50:01 2025
    Copy: otto@debian.org (=?UTF-8?B?T3R0byBLZWvDpGzDpGluZW4=?=)

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_Plissonneau_Duqu=C@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 11 15:50:01 2025
    Le 2025-01-11 13:49, Fabio Fantoni a écrit :

    What would be the best, easiest and fastest procedure (especially for newcomers) to create a new package from scratch, aiming to use git,
    salsa, salsa-ci, gbp and DEP14 from the beginning?

    It Depends™. As in, it really depends on what you are packaging.
    Different technologies have different Debian-specific tools, different
    teams have different workflows, there are exceptions, and there are
    exceptions to the exceptions.

    There are indeed things that are common to all packaging, but IMO as
    well as IME trying to document a generic, theoretical trunk that is
    rarely used as-is is confusing, overwhelming and not really helpful to newcomers. That's material for reference manuals, but newcomers should
    probably first be guided through a reasonably simple step-by-step
    tutorial and then practical cases and examples covering the nominal
    packaging practices as adopted by the different clans.

    The tutorial could for example show how to properly package a Gnome
    game. I randomly picked [1] which already looks like a reasonable pick
    for that purpose, but there might be better ones. It might help to craft
    a packaging "reference implementation" out of a carefully chosen
    project, and publish a frozen demo git repository that could be cloned
    and used along the tutorial.

    Practices that are specific to teams or maintainers should be documented
    by them, as they are in the best place to know what is current and what
    is not, and this is not always trivial from an outsider's point of view
    (or there might be lingering disagreements over what should be
    considered "best" practices). For example I know that the Java packaging documentation needs to be improved (and the tooling as well) and I'm
    planning to work on that later this year.

    Cheers,


    [1]: https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/gnome-2048

    --
    Julien Plissonneau Duquène

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ahmad Khalifa@21:1/5 to Fabio Fantoni on Sat Jan 11 16:40:02 2025
    On 11/01/2025 12:49, Fabio Fantoni wrote:
    Write on Google "Debian create new package" and first result: https:// wiki.debian.org/HowToPackageForDebian

    It points to various parts but mainly the more probable start point
    seems https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging/Intro

    To point to git and gbp seems more useful https://wiki.debian.org/ PackagingWithGit Here wrote also about DEP14, tell writing first package
    out of git and after import, in fact it is not simple and fast to create
    the initial package starting immediately from git and neither to use immediately gbp and also DEP14, to create immediately on salsa etc... I remember that the last packages created new some time ago I had to do
    many steps, workarounds and only after convert the branches to the DEP14 names.


    I just went through this learning process, and IMO, first thing to learn
    is how to "package" (debuild, debhelper, lintian, sbuild, devscripts),
    then you learn how to "publish" it (dput, gbp, DEP-14).

    Packaging/Intro wiki is still an excellent first read if only to get the terminology in use (upstream tarball, source package, dsc, ...).

    To quote from PackagingWithGit wiki:
    It is easiest to first create the first version of a package, outside of Git.
    It's an advanced wiki, not a starting step for newcomers.

    --
    Regards,
    Ahmad

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrey Rakhmatullin@21:1/5 to Ahmad Khalifa on Sat Jan 11 17:40:01 2025
    On Sat, Jan 11, 2025 at 03:38:10PM +0000, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
    Write on Google "Debian create new package" and first result: https:// wiki.debian.org/HowToPackageForDebian

    It points to various parts but mainly the more probable start point
    seems https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging/Intro

    To point to git and gbp seems more useful https://wiki.debian.org/ PackagingWithGit Here wrote also about DEP14, tell writing first package out of git and after import, in fact it is not simple and fast to create the initial package starting immediately from git and neither to use immediately gbp and also DEP14, to create immediately on salsa etc... I remember that the last packages created new some time ago I had to do
    many steps, workarounds and only after convert the branches to the DEP14 names.

    I just went through this learning process, and IMO, first thing to learn is how to "package" (debuild, debhelper, lintian, sbuild, devscripts), then you learn how to "publish" it (dput, gbp, DEP-14).

    The gbp part is debatable.
    For some people it's easier when they use a repo from the beginning and
    even wrap some tools into other, git-related, tools. For them it's a part
    of "packaging". But see below.

    To quote from PackagingWithGit wiki:
    It is easiest to first create the first version of a package, outside of Git.

    Yup. It's unfortunate.


    --
    WBR, wRAR

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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  • From Fabio Fantoni@21:1/5 to Ahmad Khalifa on Sat Jan 11 18:20:02 2025
    To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

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  • From gregor herrmann@21:1/5 to Andrey Rakhmatullin on Sun Jan 12 01:20:01 2025
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:04:15 +0500, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:

    Yeah, not sure if that's your point but I think everyone agrees that we
    need a good new packager document and while there were some attempts in
    the past (see links on https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers/ )
    there is still AFAIK no comprehensive and modern one. debmake-doc is the
    only one that tries to be modern, not sure how successful is it in that.

    My favourite packaging tutorial is still Lucas' https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/packaging-tutorial https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/packaging-tutorial/packaging-tutorial.en.pdf


    Cheers,
    gregor


    --
    .''`. https://info.comodo.priv.at -- Debian Developer https://www.debian.org
    : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D 85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06
    `. `' Member VIBE!AT & SPI Inc. -- Supporter Free Software Foundation Europe
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)