Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse
consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable
challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse
consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable
challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse
consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable
challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions
like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I found that one icy spot on the crown of the county road while turningThe last time I road on ice was a day I will not forget. December 7th
left into the village at the end of my ride yesterday. Just a minor
spill, had a small cut over one eye; Felt like an idiot but no big deal otherwise.
Woke up today with an achy bruised rib and a big purple shiner.
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking >>>> lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse >>>> consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable
challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking >>>> lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse >>>> consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable
challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions
like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
In my experience seems to tally with that, longer bikes with fatter tyres
and so on, only make a difference on areas with marginal grip not zero grip or near zero!
I’ve been caught out even off road with ice on a old Tram road which the ice had at one spot reached sufficient thickness not to crack under my weight, so I tipped over an cracked my wrist which was seriously painful,
not helped by me riding home on it which really wasn’t wise!
Catstrike bike is probably quite fun on ice, though I’m told that studded tyres are good on ice.
Never tried it as well it doesn’t get cold enough for frequent ice around London on the roads, though do get snow and ice to varying degrees, but bar my experience above ice off road isn’t a problem and the MTB in particular can just plow though the Snow.
Roger Merriman
On 2/28/2025 1:02 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel
parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse >>>>> consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable >>>>> challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions
like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
In my experience seems to tally with that, longer bikes with fatter tyres
and so on, only make a difference on areas with marginal grip not zero
grip
or near zero!
I’ve been caught out even off road with ice on a old Tram road which the >> ice had at one spot reached sufficient thickness not to crack under my
weight, so I tipped over an cracked my wrist which was seriously painful,
not helped by me riding home on it which really wasn’t wise!
Catstrike bike is probably quite fun on ice, though I’m told that studded >> tyres are good on ice.
Never tried it as well it doesn’t get cold enough for frequent ice around >> London on the roads, though do get snow and ice to varying degrees,
but bar
my experience above ice off road isn’t a problem and the MTB in
particular
can just plow though the Snow.
Roger Merriman
Amen to that.
I couldn't manage mine into the overcoat so I rode back to work with
that sleeve in my teeth. I can't imagine holding a handebar with a wrist fracture.
On 2/28/2025 1:02 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking >>>>> lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse >>>>> consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable >>>>> challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions
like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
In my experience seems to tally with that, longer bikes with fatter tyres
and so on, only make a difference on areas with marginal grip not zero grip >> or near zero!
I’ve been caught out even off road with ice on a old Tram road which the >> ice had at one spot reached sufficient thickness not to crack under my
weight, so I tipped over an cracked my wrist which was seriously painful,
not helped by me riding home on it which really wasn’t wise!
Catstrike bike is probably quite fun on ice, though I’m told that studded >> tyres are good on ice.
Never tried it as well it doesn’t get cold enough for frequent ice around >> London on the roads, though do get snow and ice to varying degrees, but bar >> my experience above ice off road isn’t a problem and the MTB in particular >> can just plow though the Snow.
Roger Merriman
Amen to that.
I couldn't manage mine into the overcoat so I rode back to
work with that sleeve in my teeth. I can't imagine holding a
handebar with a wrist fracture.
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking >>>>> lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse >>>>> consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable >>>>> challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
On 2/28/2025 4:39 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2025 1:02 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in
a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now
have much worse
consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving
ourselves reasonable
challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt
for conditions
like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would
make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
In my experience seems to tally with that, longer bikes
with fatter tyres
and so on, only make a difference on areas with marginal
grip not zero grip
or near zero!
I’ve been caught out even off road with ice on a old Tram
road which the
ice had at one spot reached sufficient thickness not to
crack under my
weight, so I tipped over an cracked my wrist which was
seriously painful,
not helped by me riding home on it which really wasn’t wise!
Catstrike bike is probably quite fun on ice, though I’m
told that studded
tyres are good on ice.
Never tried it as well it doesn’t get cold enough for
frequent ice around
London on the roads, though do get snow and ice to
varying degrees, but bar
my experience above ice off road isn’t a problem and the
MTB in particular
can just plow though the Snow.
Roger Merriman
Amen to that.
I couldn't manage mine into the overcoat so I rode back to
work with that sleeve in my teeth. I can't imagine holding
a handebar with a wrist fracture.
Why do I have an image of Aqualung on a bike in my head?
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking >>>>>> lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse >>>>>> consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable >>>>>> challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding your fixie
on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without any ice.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 2/28/2025 4:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking >>>>>>> lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse >>>>>>> consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable >>>>>>> challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding your fixie
on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without any ice.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control. This
may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on mine
over decades)
I’m told that
studded
tyres are good on ice.
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 17:40:18 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 4:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse >>>>>>>> consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable >>>>>>>> challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding your fixie
on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without any ice.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
would be for me.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control. This
may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on mine
over decades)
I quite often coast through sharp corners on the Catrike.
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought
maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how
often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something
I want to do.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 2/28/2025 6:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control.
This may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on
mine over decades)
I'd love to try a fixie, but have not had the opportunity.
My kid has. She rode one on a velodrome years back.
Andrew, what sort of pedals do you use with that bike?
On 2/28/2025 6:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control. This may be
perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a problem. (then
again I have never had a pedal strike on mine over decades)
I'd love to try a fixie, but have not had the opportunity. My kid has.
She rode one on a velodrome years back.
Andrew, what sort of pedals do you use with that bike?
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 17:40:18 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 4:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse
consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable >>>>>>>>> challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding your fixie
on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without any ice.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
would be for me.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control. This
may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on mine
over decades)
I quite often coast through sharp corners on the Catrike.
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought
maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how
often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something
I want to do.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I don't proselytize. I like mine; you may not.
On 2/28/2025 4:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking >>>>>>> lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse >>>>>>> consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable >>>>>>> challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions >>>>>> like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding your fixie
on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without any ice.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control. This
may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on mine
over decades)
On 2/28/2025 10:02 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2025 8:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/28/2025 6:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:Lyotard 460D.
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control. This may be
perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a problem. (then
again I have never had a pedal strike on mine over decades)
I'd love to try a fixie, but have not had the opportunity. My kid has.
She rode one on a velodrome years back.
Andrew, what sort of pedals do you use with that bike?
I wore out three pairs of #23. These fit shoes with rubber overshoes
better and don't have that vulnerable top rivet/stamping holding
everything in place until it wears through and the pedal self destructs.
Toe clips and straps?
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 17:40:18 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 4:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse >>>>>>>> consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable >>>>>>>> challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding your fixie
on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without any ice.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
would be for me.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control. This
may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on mine
over decades)
I quite often coast through sharp corners on the Catrike.
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought
maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how
often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something
I want to do.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 2/28/2025 4:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel
parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much >>>>>>> worse
consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable >>>>>>> challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for
conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding your fixie
on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without any ice.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control. This may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a problem. (then
again I have never had a pedal strike on mine over decades)
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 17:40:18 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 4:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse
consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable >>>>>>>>> challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding your fixie
on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without any ice.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
would be for me.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control. This
may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on mine
over decades)
I quite often coast through sharp corners on the Catrike.
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought
maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how
often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something
I want to do.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
On 2/28/2025 10:02 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2025 8:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/28/2025 6:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:Lyotard 460D.
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control.
This may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on
mine over decades)
I'd love to try a fixie, but have not had the
opportunity. My kid has. She rode one on a velodrome
years back.
Andrew, what sort of pedals do you use with that bike?
I wore out three pairs of #23. These fit shoes with
rubber overshoes better and don't have that vulnerable top
rivet/stamping holding everything in place until it wears
through and the pedal self destructs.
Toe clips and straps?
On 2/28/2025 6:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2025 4:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice
in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can
now have much worse
consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving
ourselves reasonable
challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt
for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher
performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would
make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really
fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding
your fixie
on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without
any ice.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control.
This may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on
mine over decades)
It's all a matter of Skills, Experience, and Testicular
Fortitude (SETF).
Safer.....I don't think so, especially if riding in areas
where panic stops may be necessary. You can stop a lot
faster and with more control with brakes than you can by
just back pedaling a fixed-gear.
More control imo is a matter of SETF and not related to the
machine being ridden to any great extent, panic braking
issues notwithstanding.
Fixed-gear machines have a few notable challenges that free-
wheel bikes don't:
    Road hazards - A free-wheel is easy to bunny hop over
stuff, a fixed-gear, notsomuch, for the simple reason that
as long as the bike is moving your legs have to be moving
meaning you have to be able to lift the bike while your legs
are moving. Of course it can be done, but it's very
challenging and takes a great deal of coordination. I've
seen it done, I can't do. I've had the experience of
catching a frost heave on a downhill while spinning well
over 100 rpm. The first instinct when your bike leaves the
ground is to stop pedaling - Do that on a fixed gear and the
bike will land at whatever speed you were traveling with
your legs not moving. It never took me down, but I've seen
it happen.
    Downhills -
"let me tell you brother
it doesn't mean a thing
if you don't have
the ability to spin"*.
Spinning your legs at cadences over 130 take a bit of
practice. If you don't have brakes installed you can leg
brake, but that too is a challenge at higher cadences. This
leads back to the stability and control issue. Inexperienced
riders will start bouncing in the saddle since they don't
have the smooth pedal stroke. Picture this: A fixed-gear on
a steep downhill, the rider pedaling so fast the rear wheel
isn't maintaining contact with the road, the road has a turn
which the rider has never even though about on his road
bike. No, it wasn't me.
    Corners - You _MUST_ pedal though corners. Lean too
much and you strike a pedal, the rear wheel leaves the
ground and you go down (not necessarily, but likely). Back
pedal to scrub off speed and you risk breaking traction, you
go down (no only likely, but necessarily).
I've ridden a fixed gear consistently for almost 40 years
now as my cycling mentors were old school guys who preached
it as an off season training tool. I've done 3- 4 hour
sessions on the road, commuted, done a smattering of track
racing, and I do the local club TT a couple of times a year
on it. A number of years ago a local shop was doing matched
spring roller races I competed in every week for a few
years(if you couldn't spin 170 you weren't shit).
I love the bike. I finally bought a used track bike rather
than use the rentals. My goal this year is to use the track
bike on the Major Taylor Hill Climb https:// www.majortaylorassociation.org/events/georgestreet24.shtml.
*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZdoKxKgHZs
I hate it when I'm riding and come to a road crossing and a driver stops and waves me across. I know they're just being nice, but there are other cars coming up behind them that don't expect to have car stopped on a 55 mph road in front of them. It'sdangerous for them, for me, and the cars behind them. On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 08:27:51 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 7:45 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 2/28/2025 6:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2025 4:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice
in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can
now have much worse
consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving
ourselves reasonable
challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt
for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher
performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would
make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really
fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding
your fixie
on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without
any ice.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control.
This may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on
mine over decades)
It's all a matter of Skills, Experience, and Testicular
Fortitude (SETF).
Safer.....I don't think so, especially if riding in areas
where panic stops may be necessary. You can stop a lot
faster and with more control with brakes than you can by
just back pedaling a fixed-gear.
More control imo is a matter of SETF and not related to the
machine being ridden to any great extent, panic braking
issues notwithstanding.
Fixed-gear machines have a few notable challenges that free-
wheel bikes don't:
Road hazards - A free-wheel is easy to bunny hop over
stuff, a fixed-gear, notsomuch, for the simple reason that
as long as the bike is moving your legs have to be moving
meaning you have to be able to lift the bike while your legs
are moving. Of course it can be done, but it's very
challenging and takes a great deal of coordination. I've
seen it done, I can't do. I've had the experience of
catching a frost heave on a downhill while spinning well
over 100 rpm. The first instinct when your bike leaves the
ground is to stop pedaling - Do that on a fixed gear and the
bike will land at whatever speed you were traveling with
your legs not moving. It never took me down, but I've seen
it happen.
Downhills -
"let me tell you brother
it doesn't mean a thing
if you don't have
the ability to spin"*.
Spinning your legs at cadences over 130 take a bit of
practice. If you don't have brakes installed you can leg
brake, but that too is a challenge at higher cadences. This
leads back to the stability and control issue. Inexperienced
riders will start bouncing in the saddle since they don't
have the smooth pedal stroke. Picture this: A fixed-gear on
a steep downhill, the rider pedaling so fast the rear wheel
isn't maintaining contact with the road, the road has a turn
which the rider has never even though about on his road
bike. No, it wasn't me.
Corners - You _MUST_ pedal though corners. Lean too
much and you strike a pedal, the rear wheel leaves the
ground and you go down (not necessarily, but likely). Back
pedal to scrub off speed and you risk breaking traction, you
go down (no only likely, but necessarily).
I've ridden a fixed gear consistently for almost 40 years
now as my cycling mentors were old school guys who preached
it as an off season training tool. I've done 3- 4 hour
sessions on the road, commuted, done a smattering of track
racing, and I do the local club TT a couple of times a year
on it. A number of years ago a local shop was doing matched
spring roller races I competed in every week for a few
years(if you couldn't spin 170 you weren't shit).
I love the bike. I finally bought a used track bike rather
than use the rentals. My goal this year is to use the track
bike on the Major Taylor Hill Climb https://
www.majortaylorassociation.org/events/georgestreet24.shtml.
*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZdoKxKgHZs
SETF?
https://www.acronymfinder.com/SETF.html
To be clear, I do have a front caliper and I strongly
admonish other fixed gear riders to use one.
+1 on bunny hops at speed. Virtually impossible on fixed but
common, even trivial, on a road bike.
er, or anything which coasts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI2gyx2sU90
And my hat's off to you regarding rpm. I generally spin
highish but 170 on these legs is not going to happen!
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 07:43:22 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 17:40:18 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 4:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse
consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable >>>>>>>>>> challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding your fixie >>>>> on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without any ice.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
would be for me.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control. This
may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on mine
over decades)
I quite often coast through sharp corners on the Catrike.
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought
maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how
often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something
I want to do.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
I've already taken most of the slack out of the return chain with
idlers and I'm pretty sure I could get the rest.
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 08:51:51 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 07:43:22 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 17:40:18 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
On 2/28/2025 4:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse
consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable
challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no >>>>>>>>> difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding your fixie >>>>>> on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without any ice.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
would be for me.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control. This
may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on mine
over decades)
I quite often coast through sharp corners on the Catrike.
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought
maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how
often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something
I want to do.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
I've already taken most of the slack out of the return chain with
idlers and I'm pretty sure I could get the rest.
Looking at my wife's Catrike Pocket sitting here in front of me, I see
that I could put a return side idler on the bolt that has the power
side idler. Using the 44 tooth chainring the chain would clear the
frame's crossarm and the path to the rear hub would be completely
clear. On my Expedition I'd do the same and I'd have to add an idler
in front of the crossarm, and I already have one there. I have two
idlers behind the crossarm, but those are to keep the long chain from dragging on speed bumps and I wouldn't need them on a fixie set up. I
can't see why that wouldn't work. Am I missing something?
I'm just curious. I'm not planning on doing this.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 3/1/2025 7:45 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 2/28/2025 6:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2025 4:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice
in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can
now have much worse
consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving
ourselves reasonable
challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt
for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher
performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would
make no
difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really
fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding
your fixie
on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without
any ice.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control.
This may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on
mine over decades)
It's all a matter of Skills, Experience, and Testicular
Fortitude (SETF).
Safer.....I don't think so, especially if riding in areas
where panic stops may be necessary. You can stop a lot
faster and with more control with brakes than you can by
just back pedaling a fixed-gear.
More control imo is a matter of SETF and not related to the
machine being ridden to any great extent, panic braking
issues notwithstanding.
Fixed-gear machines have a few notable challenges that free-
wheel bikes don't:
    Road hazards - A free-wheel is easy to bunny hop over
stuff, a fixed-gear, notsomuch, for the simple reason that
as long as the bike is moving your legs have to be moving
meaning you have to be able to lift the bike while your legs
are moving. Of course it can be done, but it's very
challenging and takes a great deal of coordination. I've
seen it done, I can't do. I've had the experience of
catching a frost heave on a downhill while spinning well
over 100 rpm. The first instinct when your bike leaves the
ground is to stop pedaling - Do that on a fixed gear and the
bike will land at whatever speed you were traveling with
your legs not moving. It never took me down, but I've seen
it happen.
    Downhills -
"let me tell you brother
it doesn't mean a thing
if you don't have
the ability to spin"*.
Spinning your legs at cadences over 130 take a bit of
practice. If you don't have brakes installed you can leg
brake, but that too is a challenge at higher cadences. This
leads back to the stability and control issue. Inexperienced
riders will start bouncing in the saddle since they don't
have the smooth pedal stroke. Picture this: A fixed-gear on
a steep downhill, the rider pedaling so fast the rear wheel
isn't maintaining contact with the road, the road has a turn
which the rider has never even though about on his road
bike. No, it wasn't me.
    Corners - You _MUST_ pedal though corners. Lean too
much and you strike a pedal, the rear wheel leaves the
ground and you go down (not necessarily, but likely). Back
pedal to scrub off speed and you risk breaking traction, you
go down (no only likely, but necessarily).
I've ridden a fixed gear consistently for almost 40 years
now as my cycling mentors were old school guys who preached
it as an off season training tool. I've done 3- 4 hour
sessions on the road, commuted, done a smattering of track
racing, and I do the local club TT a couple of times a year
on it. A number of years ago a local shop was doing matched
spring roller races I competed in every week for a few
years(if you couldn't spin 170 you weren't shit).
I love the bike. I finally bought a used track bike rather
than use the rentals. My goal this year is to use the track
bike on the Major Taylor Hill Climb https://
www.majortaylorassociation.org/events/georgestreet24.shtml.
*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZdoKxKgHZs
SETF?
https://www.acronymfinder.com/SETF.html
To be clear, I do have a front caliper and I strongly
admonish other fixed gear riders to use one.
+1 on bunny hops at speed. Virtually impossible on fixed but
common, even trivial, on a road bike.
er, or anything which coasts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI2gyx2sU90
And my hat's off to you regarding rpm. I generally spin
highish but 170 on these legs is not going to happen!
On 3/1/2025 9:27 AM, AMuzi wrote:
SETF?
As Zen said, "It's all a matter of Skills, Experience, and Testicular Fortitude (SETF)."
+1 on bunny hops at speed. Virtually impossible on fixed but common,I'm puzzled by the video's advice to avoid pulling up on the pedals "as
even trivial, on a road bike.
er, or anything which coasts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI2gyx2sU90
it's bad technique." I'm pretty sure I do pull up when jumping the bike. What's bad about it?
And more on that video. In slow motion as they showed, the physics is
pretty obvious. The rider gets his body mass moving upwards, then
essentially pulls the bike up with him. That's where I think I pull up
using the pedals.
What's less obvious, I think, is how a skateboarder with zero foot
attachment can bunny hop a skateboard. It's interesting to think about.
https://t-cycle.com/collections/idler-kitsOn Sat, 1 Mar 2025 10:21:52 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 9:43 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 08:51:51 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 07:43:22 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 17:40:18 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>
On 2/28/2025 4:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:36:28 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:31:08 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 11:24 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Feb 28 11:14:11 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I was riding over lumpy wet ice in a gravel parking
lot yesterday. I was very conscious that falls can now have much worse
consequences than they once did.
But I think it's still important to keep giving ourselves reasonable
challenges, to maintain skill and agility.
I expect that your old steel touring bike is more apt for conditions like thqat than Andrew's higher performqance bike.
Wheelbase, tire width, tread or rider position would make no >>>>>>>>>> difference leaning into a turn over ice.
I suspect that riding a Catrike on ice would be really fun.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
+1
Very different from a two-wheeler!
Very diferent indeed. Tell me that you weren't out riding your fixie >>>>>>> on icy roads. Riding a fixie seems risky enough without any ice. >>>>>>>
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Fixed gear is not any more safe nor unsafe than coasters.
would be for me.
Some (I for one) feel they offer better rider control. This
may be perceptual.
Others note that pedaling through fast turns can be a
problem. (then again I have never had a pedal strike on mine
over decades)
I quite often coast through sharp corners on the Catrike.
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought >>>>> maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how
often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something >>>>> I want to do.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
I've already taken most of the slack out of the return chain with
idlers and I'm pretty sure I could get the rest.
Looking at my wife's Catrike Pocket sitting here in front of me, I see
that I could put a return side idler on the bolt that has the power
side idler. Using the 44 tooth chainring the chain would clear the
frame's crossarm and the path to the rear hub would be completely
clear. On my Expedition I'd do the same and I'd have to add an idler
in front of the crossarm, and I already have one there. I have two
idlers behind the crossarm, but those are to keep the long chain from
dragging on speed bumps and I wouldn't need them on a fixie set up. I
can't see why that wouldn't work. Am I missing something?
I'm just curious. I'm not planning on doing this.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Agreed, it can be done.
Note you can't use a derailleur or spring tensioner. One
positive aspect is that you have a few places where an
adjustable idler sprocket could be fabricated, so the
single-point frame end won't matter, as it does for a two
wheeler.
But your chain runs are more complex than a standard bicycle.
On 3/1/2025 9:27 AM, AMuzi wrote:
SETF?
As Zen said, "It's all a matter of Skills, Experience, and
Testicular Fortitude (SETF)."
+1 on bunny hops at speed. Virtually impossible on fixedI'm puzzled by the video's advice to avoid pulling up on the
but common, even trivial, on a road bike.
er, or anything which coasts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI2gyx2sU90
pedals "as it's bad technique." I'm pretty sure I do pull up
when jumping the bike. What's bad about it?
And more on that video. In slow motion as they showed, the
physics is pretty obvious. The rider gets his body mass
moving upwards, then essentially pulls the bike up with him.
That's where I think I pull up using the pedals.
What's less obvious, I think, is how a skateboarder with
zero foot attachment can bunny hop a skateboard. It's
interesting to think about.
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought
maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how
often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something
I want to do.
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 07:43:22 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought
maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how
often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something
I want to do.
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
Hardly straightforward, but certainly possible. Remove the gears,
chain and sprockets and replace them with a hydraulic gear pump, two >hydraulic hoses, and a hydraulic motor on the wheels. This is nothing
new. There are motor vehicles and construction equipment that use a >hydraulic pump at the engine, T junction, and a hydraulic motor on
each wheel.
"Hydraulic hybrid vehicle" ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_hybrid_vehicle>
It could also be done with a generator and motor drive, but the
efficiency would likely be horrible.
The nice thing about a gear pump is that it's reversible. Want to
pedal (or ride) backwards? No problem.
Efficiency is likely to be lousy. A low power (200 watts delivered)
small hydraulic pump can be designed for an optimistic 64% overall
efficiency (80% each for pump and motors). That's not very good
compared to a chain driven fixie at about 95% efficiency: ><https://www.cyclingabout.com/drivetrain-efficiency-difference-speed-between-1x-2x/>
I can probably squeeze out a few more percentage points by using a
different type of positive displacement pump and motor. The pump and
motor can probably be made from plastic, to reduce weight. Aluminum >automobile brake line should work for hoses.
One potential problem is that the volumetric efficiency of gear pumps >decrease with slower speeds and fluid flow rates. In other words,
gear pumps don't down-scale very well:
"Useful information on External Gear Pumps" ><https://www.michael-smith-engineers.co.uk/resources/useful-info/external-gear-pumps>
Other than eliminating the long and noisy tricycle chain, I don't see
many other benefits for a hydraulic fixie drive system.
On 3/1/2025 12:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/1/2025 11:45 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
What's less obvious, I think, is how a skateboarder with
zero foot attachment can bunny hop a skateboard. It's
interesting to think about.
How to video, 3 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9j_l3Gq1I0
I was actually thinking about no foot attachement, no hand
grab. They call that jump an "ollie."
https://www.wikihow.com/Ollie
On 3/1/2025 8:20 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
It’s not particularly difficult or expensive to get a fixed bike,
potentially you have suitable frame at home? And worth a bit of curiosity.
My around-town 3 speed has a Sturmey-Archer AW hub. It would be the best >candidate for fixed gear because of its old style horizontal dropouts. I >briefly wondered if there were some fairly easy and reversible way to
"fix" that hub, but found none.
I suppose I could buy or build a fixed rear wheel. The bike uses old
style 27" rims, and I probably have one in my pile-o-junk. But I'd
prefer to just try someone else's bike before investing the effort.
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 12:32:29 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 8:20 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
My around-town 3 speed has a Sturmey-Archer AW hub. It would be the best >>candidate for fixed gear because of its old style horizontal dropouts. I >>briefly wondered if there were some fairly easy and reversible way to
It’s not particularly difficult or expensive to get a fixed bike,
potentially you have suitable frame at home? And worth a bit of curiosity. >>
"fix" that hub, but found none.
I suppose I could buy or build a fixed rear wheel. The bike uses old
style 27" rims, and I probably have one in my pile-o-junk. But I'd
prefer to just try someone else's bike before investing the effort.
Too bad that you don't enjoy the challenge of designing and building
things. I haven't totally discarded the challenge of making a fixie
setup for the Catrike. I've got everything I need except for the
wheel, which I can build for maybe $150. I don't really have to change
out the 3sp crank, although I'd disable shifting.
Once I got it working I'd be happy. I doubt I'd be happy riding it.
I'm working hard at talking myself out of it.
On 3/1/2025 1:22 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 07:43:22 -0600, AMuziIIRC, hydrostatic transmissions are standard features on
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my
ride and thought
maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I
considered how
often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is
not something
I want to do.
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
Hardly straightforward, but certainly possible. Remove
the gears,
chain and sprockets and replace them with a hydraulic gear
pump, two
hydraulic hoses, and a hydraulic motor on the wheels.
This is nothing
new. There are motor vehicles and construction equipment
that use a
hydraulic pump at the engine, T junction, and a hydraulic
motor on
each wheel.
zero turn mowers. But as you noted, the mechanical
efficiency is lousy. That's not a concern if you have a big
enough engine and low enough use hours. It's a huge concern
for a cyclist.
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 14:49:36 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 12:32:29 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 8:20 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
My around-town 3 speed has a Sturmey-Archer AW hub. It would be the best >>> candidate for fixed gear because of its old style horizontal dropouts. I >>> briefly wondered if there were some fairly easy and reversible way to
It’s not particularly difficult or expensive to get a fixed bike,
potentially you have suitable frame at home? And worth a bit of curiosity. >>>
"fix" that hub, but found none.
I suppose I could buy or build a fixed rear wheel. The bike uses old
style 27" rims, and I probably have one in my pile-o-junk. But I'd
prefer to just try someone else's bike before investing the effort.
Too bad that you don't enjoy the challenge of designing and building
things. I haven't totally discarded the challenge of making a fixie
setup for the Catrike. I've got everything I need except for the
wheel, which I can build for maybe $150. I don't really have to change
out the 3sp crank, although I'd disable shifting.
Once I got it working I'd be happy. I doubt I'd be happy riding it.
I'm working hard at talking myself out of it.
My wife is helping me with that....
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 3/1/2025 1:50 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 14:49:36 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 12:32:29 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 8:20 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
It’s not particularly difficult or expensive to get a fixed bike,
potentially you have suitable frame at home? And worth a bit of curiosity.
My around-town 3 speed has a Sturmey-Archer AW hub. It would be the best >>>> candidate for fixed gear because of its old style horizontal dropouts. I >>>> briefly wondered if there were some fairly easy and reversible way to
"fix" that hub, but found none.
I suppose I could buy or build a fixed rear wheel. The bike uses old
style 27" rims, and I probably have one in my pile-o-junk. But I'd
prefer to just try someone else's bike before investing the effort.
Too bad that you don't enjoy the challenge of designing and building
things. I haven't totally discarded the challenge of making a fixie
setup for the Catrike. I've got everything I need except for the
wheel, which I can build for maybe $150. I don't really have to change
out the 3sp crank, although I'd disable shifting.
Once I got it working I'd be happy. I doubt I'd be happy riding it.
I'm working hard at talking myself out of it.
My wife is helping me with that....
--
C'est bon
Soloman
The phrase that pays is, "Yes, dear."
It should be voiced at every opportunity, without regard to
one's actual beliefs or actions.
On 3/1/2025 1:22 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 07:43:22 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought
maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how
often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something
I want to do.
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
Hardly straightforward, but certainly possible. Remove the gears,
chain and sprockets and replace them with a hydraulic gear pump, two
hydraulic hoses, and a hydraulic motor on the wheels. This is nothing
new. There are motor vehicles and construction equipment that use a
hydraulic pump at the engine, T junction, and a hydraulic motor on
each wheel.
IIRC, hydrostatic transmissions are standard features on zero turn
mowers. But as you noted, the mechanical efficiency is lousy. That's not
a concern if you have a big enough engine and low enough use hours. It's
a huge concern for a cyclist.
On 3/1/2025 12:53 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In theory it’s better to have the bike rider spring up, than being pulled >> up by foot attachments also slight risk of unclipping.
I'm puzzled by the video's advice to avoid pulling up on the pedals "as
it's bad technique." I'm pretty sure I do pull up when jumping the bike. >>> What's bad about it?
And more on that video. In slow motion as they showed, the physics is
pretty obvious. The rider gets his body mass moving upwards, then
essentially pulls the bike up with him. That's where I think I pull up
using the pedals.
I'm not sure I understand your phrasing. On my road bikes, I "spring up"
- that is, jump my body upward. I then pull upwards with both hands and
feet. Since I use toe clips instead of clipless, I don't think I've ever unclipped while doing that.
What's less obvious, I think, is how a skateboarder with zero footLot of folks who jump is a focus do run flats so aren’t pulling up.
attachment can bunny hop a skateboard. It's interesting to think about.
I run flat pedals on my mountain bike and my about-town 3 speed. Yes, I
can jump them, but not as high. On the other bikes, I think the toe
clips help.
As with the skateboard "ollie" (linked in another post) getting the
rider's mass up high is easy and obvious, by jumping. Making the bike or skateboard levitate is what's tricky.
I think the physics goes this way: You lift the front of the machine,
raising the machine's center of mass. On the bike, that's by pulling up
on the handlebars. On the board, that's by kicking down on the tail.
Once the machine center of mass is elevated, then rotate the machine
about its center of mass. That's by pushing down on the handlebars or
by kicking down on the nose of the board.
That rotational action about the center of mass is what causes the rear wheel(s) to lift into the air.
On 3/1/2025 4:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:55:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
IIRC, hydrostatic transmissions are standard features on
zero turn
mowers. But as you noted, the mechanical efficiency is
lousy. That's not
a concern if you have a big enough engine and low enough
use hours. It's
a huge concern for a cyclist.
True, but the huge concern is mostly for racing. If
you're using the
bicycle as a moving exercise machine, the added weight and
increased
friction might even be considered beneficial. It's like
the weights
on barbells where light weight is not a concern. For
competitive
fixie racing, maybe the governing organization should
specify a
minimum allowable bicycle weight, which might inspire
technical
innovation instead of shaving grams off the bicycle weight.
I think that level of inefficiency would be a concern of
most cyclists, and very few actually race. It would take a
lot of fun out of riding.
I once worked on a bicycle belonging to a friend that had a
quite rare (at least, at the time) 5 speed Sturmey-Archer
geared hub. IIRC, there were two shift cables, one going to
each side. Anyway, as I remember when shifted to its lowest
gear it seemed extremely sluggish. Unlike the equivalent low
gear on a derailleur bike, it really didn't seem much easier
going uphill in that gear. Instead it just seemed slower.
And as I recall, that was a not uncommon complaint about
that particular hub.
I understand the desire for exercise. But I think almost
everyone prefers to get their exercise while moving farther
or faster, not by slogging along slowly. If that were
acceptable, we'd all be riding solid tires.
On 3/1/2025 8:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2025 4:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:55:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
IIRC, hydrostatic transmissions are standard features on
zero turn
mowers. But as you noted, the mechanical efficiency is
lousy. That's not
a concern if you have a big enough engine and low enough
use hours. It's
a huge concern for a cyclist.
True, but the huge concern is mostly for racing. If
you're using the
bicycle as a moving exercise machine, the added weight
and increased
friction might even be considered beneficial. It's like
the weights
on barbells where light weight is not a concern. For
competitive
fixie racing, maybe the governing organization should
specify a
minimum allowable bicycle weight, which might inspire
technical
innovation instead of shaving grams off the bicycle weight.
I think that level of inefficiency would be a concern of
most cyclists, and very few actually race. It would take a
lot of fun out of riding.
I once worked on a bicycle belonging to a friend that had
a quite rare (at least, at the time) 5 speed Sturmey-
Archer geared hub. IIRC, there were two shift cables, one
going to each side. Anyway, as I remember when shifted to
its lowest gear it seemed extremely sluggish. Unlike the
equivalent low gear on a derailleur bike, it really didn't
seem much easier going uphill in that gear. Instead it
just seemed slower. And as I recall, that was a not
uncommon complaint about that particular hub.
I understand the desire for exercise. But I think almost
everyone prefers to get their exercise while moving
farther or faster, not by slogging along slowly. If that
were acceptable, we'd all be riding solid tires.
Odd symptom and no logical reason for it IMHO.
The S-5 gearbox (went through several variants) is basically
an AW three speed design with dual sun gears. With no left
side change, it's a three speed (+26.6% high, direct drive,
-21.1% low).
When the left side is changed, the sun gear clutch slides
over to the other gear set, giving -33.3% super low, direct
drive and +50% high.
The gear sizes being different from an AW (-25% low, direct
drive, +33% high), the five model notably gives a faster
high gear but not a lower low gear.
Since everything is in the same oil bath* and rolling on the
same bearing adjustment*, overall efficiency should vary
only in the relative losses of gear diameter which is a
small difference.
* can be correct or deficient
On 3/2/2025 11:38 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/2/2025 7:17 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 12:53 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:I’d refer you to the Don who is a ex downhill racer, and rather
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In theory it’s better to have the bike rider spring up, than being
I'm puzzled by the video's advice to avoid pulling up on the pedals >>>>>> "as
it's bad technique." I'm pretty sure I do pull up when jumping the >>>>>> bike.
What's bad about it?
And more on that video. In slow motion as they showed, the physics is >>>>>> pretty obvious. The rider gets his body mass moving upwards, then
essentially pulls the bike up with him. That's where I think I pull up >>>>>> using the pedals.
pulled
up by foot attachments also slight risk of unclipping.
I'm not sure I understand your phrasing. On my road bikes, I "spring up" >>>> - that is, jump my body upward. I then pull upwards with both hands and >>>> feet. Since I use toe clips instead of clipless, I don't think I've ever >>>> unclipped while doing that.
What's less obvious, I think, is how a skateboarder with zero foot >>>>>> attachment can bunny hop a skateboard. It's interesting to thinkLot of folks who jump is a focus do run flats so aren’t pulling up.
about.
I run flat pedals on my mountain bike and my about-town 3 speed. Yes, I >>>> can jump them, but not as high. On the other bikes, I think the toe
clips help.
technical,
to explain why!
<https://youtu.be/F7LO1qnm0Xs?si=0p3ONupQJCKONsR4>
But certainly all of the sane advice for bunny hops are not to being
pulling up with your feet, it can be done but it’s poor technique and
will
limit how much you can do.
As with the skateboard "ollie" (linked in another post) getting theYou shouldn’t be lifting either the bar or pedals, it’s about as with all >>> MTBing weight positions and movement and timing ie push hips back so your >>> arse is almost brushing the rear tyres.
rider's mass up high is easy and obvious, by jumping. Making the bike or >>>> skateboard levitate is what's tricky.
I think the physics goes this way: You lift the front of the machine,
raising the machine's center of mass. On the bike, that's by pulling up >>>> on the handlebars. On the board, that's by kicking down on the tail.
Once the machine center of mass is elevated, then rotate the machine
about its center of mass. That's by pushing down on the handlebars or >>>> by kicking down on the nose of the board.
That rotational action about the center of mass is what causes the rear >>>> wheel(s) to lift into the air.
And the front will come up, scooping the weight forward to drop the front >>> down and the rear up.
I can accept that the extreme body motions he's describing are needed to
get more than, say, a foot into the air. They may or may not have helped
the guys who's crashes he shows from 5:34 - 5:45 in the video.
And as your man says at 5:49 "... well, it does work, it's not as good."
I'm not trying for "big air," as they say. I'm on a road bike, and my
objective has been to clear big potholes, railroad tracks or speed
bumps. For that I don't think there's a problem with moving one's body
straight up then pulling the bike up using handlebars and pedal
attachments.
I submit Peter Sagan at about 0:15 in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viszek1LlpA
There was one time I jumped to clear a little dog that ran out directly
in front of me. He was maybe one foot high at the shoulder. I cleared
him with my front wheel, but broke his shoulder (I think) with my back
wheel.
On 3/2/2025 12:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/2/2025 10:10 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/1/2025 8:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2025 4:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:55:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
IIRC, hydrostatic transmissions are standard features
on zero turn
mowers. But as you noted, the mechanical efficiency is
lousy. That's not
a concern if you have a big enough engine and low
enough use hours. It's
a huge concern for a cyclist.
True, but the huge concern is mostly for racing. If
you're using the
bicycle as a moving exercise machine, the added weight
and increased
friction might even be considered beneficial. It's
like the weights
on barbells where light weight is not a concern. For
competitive
fixie racing, maybe the governing organization should
specify a
minimum allowable bicycle weight, which might inspire
technical
innovation instead of shaving grams off the bicycle
weight.
I think that level of inefficiency would be a concern of
most cyclists, and very few actually race. It would take
a lot of fun out of riding.
I once worked on a bicycle belonging to a friend that
had a quite rare (at least, at the time) 5 speed
Sturmey- Archer geared hub. IIRC, there were two shift
cables, one going to each side. Anyway, as I remember
when shifted to its lowest gear it seemed extremely
sluggish. Unlike the equivalent low gear on a derailleur
bike, it really didn't seem much easier going uphill in
that gear. Instead it just seemed slower. And as I
recall, that was a not uncommon complaint about that
particular hub.
I understand the desire for exercise. But I think almost
everyone prefers to get their exercise while moving
farther or faster, not by slogging along slowly. If that
were acceptable, we'd all be riding solid tires.
Odd symptom and no logical reason for it IMHO.
The S-5 gearbox (went through several variants) is
basically an AW three speed design with dual sun gears.
With no left side change, it's a three speed (+26.6%
high, direct drive, -21.1% low).
When the left side is changed, the sun gear clutch slides
over to the other gear set, giving -33.3% super low,
direct drive and +50% high.
The gear sizes being different from an AW (-25% low,
direct drive, +33% high), the five model notably gives a
faster high gear but not a lower low gear.
Since everything is in the same oil bath* and rolling on
the same bearing adjustment*, overall efficiency should
vary only in the relative losses of gear diameter which
is a small difference.
* can be correct or deficient
edit: 'not a much lower low gear'
It was probably about 1984 or so, meaning memory is dim. I
was asked to fix it by a dear friend who lived far away and
brought it here on a visit. The complaint wasn't
inefficiency; it was that the bike was balky responding to
the left shifter. I never had time to, say, open the hub
gear. I just played around with cable adjustments.
I thought it might have been John Allen or John Schubert who
described it as an inefficient device, but I don't recall
any explanation. If the output of one planetary stage became
the input of the next, the losses would sort of compound,
but it seems odd that would be detectable while riding. I'd
guess maybe 95% efficiency for each stage, so ~90% overall.
On 3/2/2025 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Drawing linked where?
It's a pair of planetary gear sets (see drawing linked
above) in either one set or the other, not one driving
through the other.
On 3/2/2025 7:17 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 12:53 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:I’d refer you to the Don who is a ex downhill racer, and rather technical, >> to explain why!
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In theory it’s better to have the bike rider spring up, than being pulled
I'm puzzled by the video's advice to avoid pulling up on the pedals "as >>>>> it's bad technique." I'm pretty sure I do pull up when jumping the bike. >>>>> What's bad about it?
And more on that video. In slow motion as they showed, the physics is >>>>> pretty obvious. The rider gets his body mass moving upwards, then
essentially pulls the bike up with him. That's where I think I pull up >>>>> using the pedals.
up by foot attachments also slight risk of unclipping.
I'm not sure I understand your phrasing. On my road bikes, I "spring up" >>> - that is, jump my body upward. I then pull upwards with both hands and
feet. Since I use toe clips instead of clipless, I don't think I've ever >>> unclipped while doing that.
What's less obvious, I think, is how a skateboarder with zero footLot of folks who jump is a focus do run flats so aren’t pulling up.
attachment can bunny hop a skateboard. It's interesting to think about. >>>>>
I run flat pedals on my mountain bike and my about-town 3 speed. Yes, I
can jump them, but not as high. On the other bikes, I think the toe
clips help.
<https://youtu.be/F7LO1qnm0Xs?si=0p3ONupQJCKONsR4>
But certainly all of the sane advice for bunny hops are not to being
pulling up with your feet, it can be done but it’s poor technique and will >> limit how much you can do.
As with the skateboard "ollie" (linked in another post) getting theYou shouldn’t be lifting either the bar or pedals, it’s about as with all
rider's mass up high is easy and obvious, by jumping. Making the bike or >>> skateboard levitate is what's tricky.
I think the physics goes this way: You lift the front of the machine,
raising the machine's center of mass. On the bike, that's by pulling up
on the handlebars. On the board, that's by kicking down on the tail.
Once the machine center of mass is elevated, then rotate the machine
about its center of mass. That's by pushing down on the handlebars or
by kicking down on the nose of the board.
That rotational action about the center of mass is what causes the rear
wheel(s) to lift into the air.
MTBing weight positions and movement and timing ie push hips back so your
arse is almost brushing the rear tyres.
And the front will come up, scooping the weight forward to drop the front
down and the rear up.
I can accept that the extreme body motions he's describing are needed to
get more than, say, a foot into the air. They may or may not have helped
the guys who's crashes he shows from 5:34 - 5:45 in the video.
And as your man says at 5:49 "... well, it does work, it's not as good."
I'm not trying for "big air," as they say. I'm on a road bike, and my objective has been to clear big potholes, railroad tracks or speed
bumps. For that I don't think there's a problem with moving one's body straight up then pulling the bike up using handlebars and pedal
attachments.
I submit Peter Sagan at about 0:15 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viszek1LlpA
On 3/2/2025 7:55 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/2/2025 7:17 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 12:53 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:I’d refer you to the Don who is a ex downhill racer, and rather technical,
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In theory it’s better to have the bike rider spring up, than being pulled
I'm puzzled by the video's advice to avoid pulling up on the pedals "as >>>>>>> it's bad technique." I'm pretty sure I do pull up when jumping the bike.
What's bad about it?
And more on that video. In slow motion as they showed, the physics is >>>>>>> pretty obvious. The rider gets his body mass moving upwards, then >>>>>>> essentially pulls the bike up with him. That's where I think I pull up >>>>>>> using the pedals.
up by foot attachments also slight risk of unclipping.
I'm not sure I understand your phrasing. On my road bikes, I "spring up" >>>>> - that is, jump my body upward. I then pull upwards with both hands and >>>>> feet. Since I use toe clips instead of clipless, I don't think I've ever >>>>> unclipped while doing that.
I run flat pedals on my mountain bike and my about-town 3 speed. Yes, I >>>>> can jump them, but not as high. On the other bikes, I think the toe
What's less obvious, I think, is how a skateboarder with zero foot >>>>>>> attachment can bunny hop a skateboard. It's interesting to think about. >>>>>>>Lot of folks who jump is a focus do run flats so aren’t pulling up. >>>>>
clips help.
to explain why!
<https://youtu.be/F7LO1qnm0Xs?si=0p3ONupQJCKONsR4>
But certainly all of the sane advice for bunny hops are not to being
pulling up with your feet, it can be done but it’s poor technique and will
limit how much you can do.
As with the skateboard "ollie" (linked in another post) getting theYou shouldn’t be lifting either the bar or pedals, it’s about as with all
rider's mass up high is easy and obvious, by jumping. Making the bike or >>>>> skateboard levitate is what's tricky.
I think the physics goes this way: You lift the front of the machine, >>>>> raising the machine's center of mass. On the bike, that's by pulling up >>>>> on the handlebars. On the board, that's by kicking down on the tail. >>>>>
Once the machine center of mass is elevated, then rotate the machine >>>>> about its center of mass. That's by pushing down on the handlebars or >>>>> by kicking down on the nose of the board.
That rotational action about the center of mass is what causes the rear >>>>> wheel(s) to lift into the air.
MTBing weight positions and movement and timing ie push hips back so your >>>> arse is almost brushing the rear tyres.
And the front will come up, scooping the weight forward to drop the front >>>> down and the rear up.
I can accept that the extreme body motions he's describing are needed to >>> get more than, say, a foot into the air. They may or may not have helped >>> the guys who's crashes he shows from 5:34 - 5:45 in the video.
And as your man says at 5:49 "... well, it does work, it's not as good."
I'm not trying for "big air," as they say. I'm on a road bike, and my
objective has been to clear big potholes, railroad tracks or speed
bumps. For that I don't think there's a problem with moving one's body
straight up then pulling the bike up using handlebars and pedal
attachments.
Kinda depends on your aim, if one wants to learn how to bunny hop for what >> ever reason, it’s a better form and more reliable granted needs practice, >> your method is cheap and dirty hence folks use it, but it inherently has
limits.
I’d suggest he probably did more than just pull up, it’s fast ...
I submit Peter Sagan at about 0:15 in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viszek1LlpA
It helps to slow it down to half speed or slower as you view it.
... but looks
like he compresses and then springs up, he’s also someone with some MTB
background and likes to throw the bike about.
Ie that doesn’t look like just a cheap and dirty pull on the bars.
Reread above, please. What I said is still there:
"On my road bikes, I "spring up"- that is, jump my body upward. I then
pull upwards with both hands and feet. Since I use toe clips instead of clipless, I don't think I've ever unclipped while doing that."
If I want to jump a bit higher and if I have time, I think I do
"compress" a bit before I spring up.
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:55:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 1:22 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 07:43:22 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought >>>>> maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how
often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something >>>>> I want to do.
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
Hardly straightforward, but certainly possible. Remove the gears,
chain and sprockets and replace them with a hydraulic gear pump, two
hydraulic hoses, and a hydraulic motor on the wheels. This is nothing
new. There are motor vehicles and construction equipment that use a
hydraulic pump at the engine, T junction, and a hydraulic motor on
each wheel.
IIRC, hydrostatic transmissions are standard features on zero turn
mowers. But as you noted, the mechanical efficiency is lousy. That's not
a concern if you have a big enough engine and low enough use hours. It's
a huge concern for a cyclist.
True, but the huge concern is mostly for racing. If you're using the
bicycle as a moving exercise machine, the added weight and increased
friction might even be considered beneficial. It's like the weights
on barbells where light weight is not a concern. For competitive
fixie racing, maybe the governing organization should specify a
minimum allowable bicycle weight, which might inspire technical
innovation instead of shaving grams off the bicycle weight.
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/2/2025 7:55 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:He clearly does compress ie not at all clear that he’s pulling up much if anything, but it’ much like the Don’s advice movement and timing that is doing this.
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/2/2025 7:17 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 12:53 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:I’d refer you to the Don who is a ex downhill racer, and rather technical,
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In theory it’s better to have the bike rider spring up, than being pulled
I'm puzzled by the video's advice to avoid pulling up on the pedals "as
it's bad technique." I'm pretty sure I do pull up when jumping the bike.
What's bad about it?
And more on that video. In slow motion as they showed, the physics is >>>>>>>> pretty obvious. The rider gets his body mass moving upwards, then >>>>>>>> essentially pulls the bike up with him. That's where I think I pull up >>>>>>>> using the pedals.
up by foot attachments also slight risk of unclipping.
I'm not sure I understand your phrasing. On my road bikes, I "spring up" >>>>>> - that is, jump my body upward. I then pull upwards with both hands and >>>>>> feet. Since I use toe clips instead of clipless, I don't think I've ever >>>>>> unclipped while doing that.
I run flat pedals on my mountain bike and my about-town 3 speed. Yes, I >>>>>> can jump them, but not as high. On the other bikes, I think the toe >>>>>> clips help.
What's less obvious, I think, is how a skateboarder with zero foot >>>>>>>> attachment can bunny hop a skateboard. It's interesting to think about.Lot of folks who jump is a focus do run flats so aren’t pulling up. >>>>>>
to explain why!
<https://youtu.be/F7LO1qnm0Xs?si=0p3ONupQJCKONsR4>
But certainly all of the sane advice for bunny hops are not to being >>>>> pulling up with your feet, it can be done but it’s poor technique and will
limit how much you can do.
As with the skateboard "ollie" (linked in another post) getting the >>>>>> rider's mass up high is easy and obvious, by jumping. Making the bike or >>>>>> skateboard levitate is what's tricky.You shouldn’t be lifting either the bar or pedals, it’s about as with all
I think the physics goes this way: You lift the front of the machine, >>>>>> raising the machine's center of mass. On the bike, that's by pulling up >>>>>> on the handlebars. On the board, that's by kicking down on the tail. >>>>>>
Once the machine center of mass is elevated, then rotate the machine >>>>>> about its center of mass. That's by pushing down on the handlebars or >>>>>> by kicking down on the nose of the board.
That rotational action about the center of mass is what causes the rear >>>>>> wheel(s) to lift into the air.
MTBing weight positions and movement and timing ie push hips back so your >>>>> arse is almost brushing the rear tyres.
And the front will come up, scooping the weight forward to drop the front >>>>> down and the rear up.
I can accept that the extreme body motions he's describing are needed to >>>> get more than, say, a foot into the air. They may or may not have helped >>>> the guys who's crashes he shows from 5:34 - 5:45 in the video.
And as your man says at 5:49 "... well, it does work, it's not as good." >>>
I'm not trying for "big air," as they say. I'm on a road bike, and my
objective has been to clear big potholes, railroad tracks or speed
bumps. For that I don't think there's a problem with moving one's body >>>> straight up then pulling the bike up using handlebars and pedal
attachments.
Kinda depends on your aim, if one wants to learn how to bunny hop for what >>> ever reason, it’s a better form and more reliable granted needs practice, >>> your method is cheap and dirty hence folks use it, but it inherently has >>> limits.
I’d suggest he probably did more than just pull up, it’s fast ...
I submit Peter Sagan at about 0:15 in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viszek1LlpA
It helps to slow it down to half speed or slower as you view it.
... but looks
like he compresses and then springs up, he’s also someone with some MTB >>> background and likes to throw the bike about.
Ie that doesn’t look like just a cheap and dirty pull on the bars.
Reread above, please. What I said is still there:
"On my road bikes, I "spring up"- that is, jump my body upward. I then
pull upwards with both hands and feet. Since I use toe clips instead of
clipless, I don't think I've ever unclipped while doing that."
If I want to jump a bit higher and if I have time, I think I do
"compress" a bit before I spring up.
Which is different to what you’re describing.
I’d also suggest that it’s a bold move to compare to Sagan who while like most isn’t perfect he definitely fluffed up the XC Olympics few years back, by being too aggressive aka didn’t nurse the tyres over the technical bits, but he’s definitely is rather God tier in terms of bike handling.
On 3/1/2025 4:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:55:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 1:22 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 07:43:22 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought >>>>>> maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how >>>>>> often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something >>>>>> I want to do.
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
Hardly straightforward, but certainly possible. Remove the gears,
chain and sprockets and replace them with a hydraulic gear pump, two
hydraulic hoses, and a hydraulic motor on the wheels. This is nothing >>>> new. There are motor vehicles and construction equipment that use a
hydraulic pump at the engine, T junction, and a hydraulic motor on
each wheel.
IIRC, hydrostatic transmissions are standard features on zero turn
mowers. But as you noted, the mechanical efficiency is lousy. That's not >>> a concern if you have a big enough engine and low enough use hours. It's >>> a huge concern for a cyclist.
True, but the huge concern is mostly for racing. If you're using the
bicycle as a moving exercise machine, the added weight and increased
friction might even be considered beneficial. It's like the weights
on barbells where light weight is not a concern. For competitive
fixie racing, maybe the governing organization should specify a
minimum allowable bicycle weight, which might inspire technical
innovation instead of shaving grams off the bicycle weight.
The UCI weight limit of 6.8 Kg applies to all types of bikes, track
bikes (aka fixies) included
On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 11:09:15 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 3/1/2025 4:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:55:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 1:22 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 07:43:22 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought >>>>>>> maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how >>>>>>> often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something >>>>>>> I want to do.
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
Hardly straightforward, but certainly possible. Remove the gears,
chain and sprockets and replace them with a hydraulic gear pump, two >>>>> hydraulic hoses, and a hydraulic motor on the wheels. This is nothing >>>>> new. There are motor vehicles and construction equipment that use a >>>>> hydraulic pump at the engine, T junction, and a hydraulic motor on
each wheel.
IIRC, hydrostatic transmissions are standard features on zero turn
mowers. But as you noted, the mechanical efficiency is lousy. That's not >>>> a concern if you have a big enough engine and low enough use hours. It's >>>> a huge concern for a cyclist.
True, but the huge concern is mostly for racing. If you're using the
bicycle as a moving exercise machine, the added weight and increased
friction might even be considered beneficial. It's like the weights
on barbells where light weight is not a concern. For competitive
fixie racing, maybe the governing organization should specify a
minimum allowable bicycle weight, which might inspire technical
innovation instead of shaving grams off the bicycle weight.
The UCI weight limit of 6.8 Kg applies to all types of bikes, track
bikes (aka fixies) included
I assume that applies only to UCI sanctioned bicycle races.
Oddly, I haven't seen any bicycle-like exercise machines being sold on
the basis of them being light weight. Probably the same for moving bicycle-like exercise machines (i.e. trainers).
Note: The discussion was initially about adapting fixie technology to
a tricycle (Catrike). Andrew commented:
"While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear."
I then provided a possible solution using hydraulics and mentioned
that weight would be "a huge concern, especially in racing". From
that point on, the comments assumed that such a hydraulic drive train
would be used on racing bicycles and that it would not be a good idea
because if would be unsuitable for racing. It might be best if we
simply not consider racing to be a suitable use for a hydraulic fixie bicycle.
On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 11:09:15 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 3/1/2025 4:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:55:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 1:22 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 07:43:22 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought >>>>>>> maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how >>>>>>> often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something >>>>>>> I want to do.
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
Hardly straightforward, but certainly possible. Remove the gears,
chain and sprockets and replace them with a hydraulic gear pump, two >>>>> hydraulic hoses, and a hydraulic motor on the wheels. This is nothing >>>>> new. There are motor vehicles and construction equipment that use a >>>>> hydraulic pump at the engine, T junction, and a hydraulic motor on
each wheel.
IIRC, hydrostatic transmissions are standard features on zero turn
mowers. But as you noted, the mechanical efficiency is lousy. That's not >>>> a concern if you have a big enough engine and low enough use hours. It's >>>> a huge concern for a cyclist.
True, but the huge concern is mostly for racing. If you're using the
bicycle as a moving exercise machine, the added weight and increased
friction might even be considered beneficial. It's like the weights
on barbells where light weight is not a concern. For competitive
fixie racing, maybe the governing organization should specify a
minimum allowable bicycle weight, which might inspire technical
innovation instead of shaving grams off the bicycle weight.
The UCI weight limit of 6.8 Kg applies to all types of bikes, track
bikes (aka fixies) included
I assume that applies only to UCI sanctioned bicycle races.
Oddly, I haven't seen any bicycle-like exercise machines being sold on
the basis of them being light weight. Probably the same for moving bicycle-like exercise machines (i.e. trainers).
Note: The discussion was initially about adapting fixie technology to
a tricycle (Catrike). Andrew commented:
"While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear."
I then provided a possible solution using hydraulics and mentioned
that weight would be "a huge concern, especially in racing". From
that point on, the comments assumed that such a hydraulic drive train
would be used on racing bicycles and that it would not be a good idea
because if would be unsuitable for racing. It might be best if we
simply not consider racing to be a suitable use for a hydraulic fixie bicycle.
On 3/3/2025 10:23 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/2/2025 7:55 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:He clearly does compress ie not at all clear that he’s pulling up much if >> anything...
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I submit Peter Sagan at about 0:15 in this video:I’d suggest he probably did more than just pull up, it’s fast ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viszek1LlpA
It helps to slow it down to half speed or slower as you view it.
... but looks
like he compresses and then springs up, he’s also someone with some MTB >>>> background and likes to throw the bike about.
Ie that doesn’t look like just a cheap and dirty pull on the bars.
Reread above, please. What I said is still there:
"On my road bikes, I "spring up"- that is, jump my body upward. I then
pull upwards with both hands and feet. Since I use toe clips instead of
clipless, I don't think I've ever unclipped while doing that."
If I want to jump a bit higher and if I have time, I think I do
"compress" a bit before I spring up.
Really? Let's think about this in terms of physics - of force, mass and acceleration.
Unlike your mountain biker, Sagan does not use an extreme wheelstand to
raise the center of mass of the bike, allowing later rotation around
that elevated C. of M.
Instead, after Sagan's body rises, the bike rises in pure translation
(as opposed to rotation). Such a motion requires upward force. Without
an upward force, a body can't experience an upward translational acceleration.
If Sagan is not pulling up, what would make the bike levitate?
On 3/3/2025 2:07 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 11:09:15 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 3/1/2025 4:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:55:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 1:22 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 07:43:22 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought >>>>>>>> maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how >>>>>>>> often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something >>>>>>>> I want to do.
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
Hardly straightforward, but certainly possible. Remove the gears, >>>>>> chain and sprockets and replace them with a hydraulic gear pump, two >>>>>> hydraulic hoses, and a hydraulic motor on the wheels. This is nothing >>>>>> new. There are motor vehicles and construction equipment that use a >>>>>> hydraulic pump at the engine, T junction, and a hydraulic motor on >>>>>> each wheel.
IIRC, hydrostatic transmissions are standard features on zero turn
mowers. But as you noted, the mechanical efficiency is lousy. That's not >>>>> a concern if you have a big enough engine and low enough use hours. It's >>>>> a huge concern for a cyclist.
True, but the huge concern is mostly for racing. If you're using the
bicycle as a moving exercise machine, the added weight and increased
friction might even be considered beneficial. It's like the weights
on barbells where light weight is not a concern. For competitive
fixie racing, maybe the governing organization should specify a
minimum allowable bicycle weight, which might inspire technical
innovation instead of shaving grams off the bicycle weight.
The UCI weight limit of 6.8 Kg applies to all types of bikes, track
bikes (aka fixies) included
I assume that applies only to UCI sanctioned bicycle races.
Specifically for UCI races, yes, but the vast majority of national sanctioning bodies follow UCI rules even in races that aren't UCI
sanctioned. In the US, the sanctioning body is USACycling (USAC) If a
race is however a UCI race, it must follow UCI rules and UCI rules will
take precedence even if the race is being administered by USAC.
For non-UCI races sanctioned by USAC, there is no weight limit for any
kind of bike. In fact the actual equipment requirements for regular
bicycle types are surprisingly sparse, only covering just over two pages.
https://assets.usacycling.org/prod/documents/USACycling_RuleBook_7_2024.pdf
Pages 28 - 31
I have seen situations where someone raises an issue referring to UCI
rules, and the answer from the official is "this isn't a UCI race".
Oddly, I haven't seen any bicycle-like exercise machines being sold on
the basis of them being light weight. Probably the same for moving
bicycle-like exercise machines (i.e. trainers).
Note: The discussion was initially about adapting fixie technology to
a tricycle (Catrike). Andrew commented:
"While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear."
I then provided a possible solution using hydraulics and mentioned
that weight would be "a huge concern, especially in racing". From
that point on, the comments assumed that such a hydraulic drive train
would be used on racing bicycles and that it would not be a good idea
because if would be unsuitable for racing. It might be best if we
simply not consider racing to be a suitable use for a hydraulic fixie
bicycle.
I probably should have clarified, the 6.8 Kg weight limit for UCI is a _minimum_ weight. If one felt the need to ride a 30 pound walmart bike
in a UCI race, there wouldn't be any rule against it as long as all the
other mechanical requirements are met.
On 3/3/2025 10:23 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/2/2025 7:55 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:He clearly does compress ie not at all clear that he’s pulling up much if >> anything, but it’ much like the Don’s advice movement and timing that is >> doing this.
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/2/2025 7:17 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 12:53 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:I’d refer you to the Don who is a ex downhill racer, and rather technical,
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In theory it’s better to have the bike rider spring up, than being pulled
I'm puzzled by the video's advice to avoid pulling up on the pedals "as
it's bad technique." I'm pretty sure I do pull up when jumping the bike.
What's bad about it?
And more on that video. In slow motion as they showed, the physics is >>>>>>>>> pretty obvious. The rider gets his body mass moving upwards, then >>>>>>>>> essentially pulls the bike up with him. That's where I think I pull up
using the pedals.
up by foot attachments also slight risk of unclipping.
I'm not sure I understand your phrasing. On my road bikes, I "spring up"
- that is, jump my body upward. I then pull upwards with both hands and >>>>>>> feet. Since I use toe clips instead of clipless, I don't think I've ever
unclipped while doing that.
I run flat pedals on my mountain bike and my about-town 3 speed. Yes, I >>>>>>> can jump them, but not as high. On the other bikes, I think the toe >>>>>>> clips help.
What's less obvious, I think, is how a skateboarder with zero foot >>>>>>>>> attachment can bunny hop a skateboard. It's interesting to think about.Lot of folks who jump is a focus do run flats so aren’t pulling up. >>>>>>>
to explain why!
<https://youtu.be/F7LO1qnm0Xs?si=0p3ONupQJCKONsR4>
But certainly all of the sane advice for bunny hops are not to being >>>>>> pulling up with your feet, it can be done but it’s poor technique and will
limit how much you can do.
As with the skateboard "ollie" (linked in another post) getting the >>>>>>> rider's mass up high is easy and obvious, by jumping. Making the bike orYou shouldn’t be lifting either the bar or pedals, it’s about as with all
skateboard levitate is what's tricky.
I think the physics goes this way: You lift the front of the machine, >>>>>>> raising the machine's center of mass. On the bike, that's by pulling up >>>>>>> on the handlebars. On the board, that's by kicking down on the tail. >>>>>>>
Once the machine center of mass is elevated, then rotate the machine >>>>>>> about its center of mass. That's by pushing down on the handlebars or >>>>>>> by kicking down on the nose of the board.
That rotational action about the center of mass is what causes the rear >>>>>>> wheel(s) to lift into the air.
MTBing weight positions and movement and timing ie push hips back so your
arse is almost brushing the rear tyres.
And the front will come up, scooping the weight forward to drop the front
down and the rear up.
I can accept that the extreme body motions he's describing are needed to >>>>> get more than, say, a foot into the air. They may or may not have helped >>>>> the guys who's crashes he shows from 5:34 - 5:45 in the video.
And as your man says at 5:49 "... well, it does work, it's not as good." >>>>
I'm not trying for "big air," as they say. I'm on a road bike, and my >>>>> objective has been to clear big potholes, railroad tracks or speed
bumps. For that I don't think there's a problem with moving one's body >>>>> straight up then pulling the bike up using handlebars and pedal
attachments.
Kinda depends on your aim, if one wants to learn how to bunny hop for what >>>> ever reason, it’s a better form and more reliable granted needs practice,
your method is cheap and dirty hence folks use it, but it inherently has >>>> limits.
I’d suggest he probably did more than just pull up, it’s fast ...
I submit Peter Sagan at about 0:15 in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viszek1LlpA
It helps to slow it down to half speed or slower as you view it.
... but looks
like he compresses and then springs up, he’s also someone with some MTB >>>> background and likes to throw the bike about.
Ie that doesn’t look like just a cheap and dirty pull on the bars.
Reread above, please. What I said is still there:
"On my road bikes, I "spring up"- that is, jump my body upward. I then
pull upwards with both hands and feet. Since I use toe clips instead of
clipless, I don't think I've ever unclipped while doing that."
If I want to jump a bit higher and if I have time, I think I do
"compress" a bit before I spring up.
Which is different to what you’re describing.
I'm not so sure about that, but it's really hard to tell without a good slo-mo breakdown. It looks to me like he might have actually pitched the front of the bike down before he crossed the median, but my
bunny-hopping skills are notoriously bad.
I’d also suggest that it’s a bold move to compare to Sagan who while like
most isn’t perfect he definitely fluffed up the XC Olympics few years back,
by being too aggressive aka didn’t nurse the tyres over the technical bits,
but he’s definitely is rather God tier in terms of bike handling.
Which brings this to mind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM9Eh2uQ7Ek
For me though, one of the more impressive displays was Andre Tchmil
winning the '94 Paris Roubaix. He won in a solo breakaway, at one point
he approached a small-ish roundabout where he simple rode straight
across it. It was so completely effortless and smooth - mind you, this
was over 5 hours into the race in off/on rainy conditions after fighting
the dozens of kilometers of mud covered cobbles.
I dug around a bit and found an old video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xci1GIwLNoo
The stunt is at 1:08:25. Even Phil Ligget was impressed with the move.
FWIW - it's worth watching a few bits earlier in the video where some
cobbled sections are covered in 2 inches of mud.
On 3/3/2025 7:35 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/3/2025 10:23 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:I strongly suspect that he’d die of shame if he used that cheap and dirty >> yank on the bars, like other examples it’s fast and fluid so breaking it >> down into its consistency movements is always difficult which is again why >> Don did the exaggeration to explain.
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/2/2025 7:55 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:He clearly does compress ie not at all clear that he’s pulling up much if
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:It helps to slow it down to half speed or slower as you view it.
I submit Peter Sagan at about 0:15 in this video:I’d suggest he probably did more than just pull up, it’s fast ... >>>>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viszek1LlpA
... but looksReread above, please. What I said is still there:
like he compresses and then springs up, he’s also someone with some MTB
background and likes to throw the bike about.
Ie that doesn’t look like just a cheap and dirty pull on the bars. >>>>>
"On my road bikes, I "spring up"- that is, jump my body upward. I then >>>>> pull upwards with both hands and feet. Since I use toe clips instead of >>>>> clipless, I don't think I've ever unclipped while doing that."
If I want to jump a bit higher and if I have time, I think I do
"compress" a bit before I spring up.
anything...
Really? Let's think about this in terms of physics - of force, mass and
acceleration.
Unlike your mountain biker, Sagan does not use an extreme wheelstand to
raise the center of mass of the bike, allowing later rotation around
that elevated C. of M.
Instead, after Sagan's body rises, the bike rises in pure translation
(as opposed to rotation). Such a motion requires upward force. Without
an upward force, a body can't experience an upward translational
acceleration.
If Sagan is not pulling up, what would make the bike levitate?
You're avoiding the physics of the situation. Cheap or expansive, dirty
or clean, fast or slow, no bicycle (or other object) is going to rise
upward in translational motion like that unless there is an upwardly
directed force.
It can get more complicated if, as your mountain bike did, one
introduces rotation into the motion. But Sagan did not, so the physics remains very basic.
Slow the video to 0.25 speed and watch carefully.
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/3/2025 7:35 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/3/2025 10:23 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:I strongly suspect that he’d die of shame if he used that cheap and dirty >>> yank on the bars, like other examples it’s fast and fluid so breaking it >>> down into its consistency movements is always difficult which is again why >>> Don did the exaggeration to explain.
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/2/2025 7:55 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:He clearly does compress ie not at all clear that he’s pulling up much if >>>>> anything...
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:It helps to slow it down to half speed or slower as you view it.
I submit Peter Sagan at about 0:15 in this video:I’d suggest he probably did more than just pull up, it’s fast ... >>>>>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viszek1LlpA
... but looksReread above, please. What I said is still there:
like he compresses and then springs up, he’s also someone with some MTB >>>>>>> background and likes to throw the bike about.
Ie that doesn’t look like just a cheap and dirty pull on the bars. >>>>>>
"On my road bikes, I "spring up"- that is, jump my body upward. I then >>>>>> pull upwards with both hands and feet. Since I use toe clips instead of >>>>>> clipless, I don't think I've ever unclipped while doing that."
If I want to jump a bit higher and if I have time, I think I do
"compress" a bit before I spring up.
Really? Let's think about this in terms of physics - of force, mass and >>>> acceleration.
Unlike your mountain biker, Sagan does not use an extreme wheelstand to >>>> raise the center of mass of the bike, allowing later rotation around
that elevated C. of M.
Instead, after Sagan's body rises, the bike rises in pure translation
(as opposed to rotation). Such a motion requires upward force. Without >>>> an upward force, a body can't experience an upward translational
acceleration.
If Sagan is not pulling up, what would make the bike levitate?
You're avoiding the physics of the situation. Cheap or expansive, dirty
or clean, fast or slow, no bicycle (or other object) is going to rise
upward in translational motion like that unless there is an upwardly
directed force.
It can get more complicated if, as your mountain bike did, one
introduces rotation into the motion. But Sagan did not, so the physics
remains very basic.
Slow the video to 0.25 speed and watch carefully.
I have, he’s using movement, he’s not pulling up but springing up, it’s
quick and fluid but definitely there.
Roger Merriman
Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 3/3/2025 2:07 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 11:09:15 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 3/1/2025 4:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 13:55:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2025 1:22 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 07:43:22 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 2/28/2025 5:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
I was thinking about fixies just the other day on my ride and thought >>>>>>>>> maybe I could set up a fixie on the Catrike. Then I considered how >>>>>>>>> often I coast. Keeping my legs moving the whole ride is not something >>>>>>>>> I want to do.
I thought about your comment this morning.
While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear.
Hardly straightforward, but certainly possible. Remove the gears, >>>>>>> chain and sprockets and replace them with a hydraulic gear pump, two >>>>>>> hydraulic hoses, and a hydraulic motor on the wheels. This is nothing >>>>>>> new. There are motor vehicles and construction equipment that use a >>>>>>> hydraulic pump at the engine, T junction, and a hydraulic motor on >>>>>>> each wheel.
IIRC, hydrostatic transmissions are standard features on zero turn >>>>>> mowers. But as you noted, the mechanical efficiency is lousy. That's not >>>>>> a concern if you have a big enough engine and low enough use hours. It's >>>>>> a huge concern for a cyclist.
True, but the huge concern is mostly for racing. If you're using the >>>>> bicycle as a moving exercise machine, the added weight and increased >>>>> friction might even be considered beneficial. It's like the weights >>>>> on barbells where light weight is not a concern. For competitive
fixie racing, maybe the governing organization should specify a
minimum allowable bicycle weight, which might inspire technical
innovation instead of shaving grams off the bicycle weight.
The UCI weight limit of 6.8 Kg applies to all types of bikes, track
bikes (aka fixies) included
I assume that applies only to UCI sanctioned bicycle races.
Specifically for UCI races, yes, but the vast majority of national
sanctioning bodies follow UCI rules even in races that aren't UCI
sanctioned. In the US, the sanctioning body is USACycling (USAC) If a
race is however a UCI race, it must follow UCI rules and UCI rules will
take precedence even if the race is being administered by USAC.
For non-UCI races sanctioned by USAC, there is no weight limit for any
kind of bike. In fact the actual equipment requirements for regular
bicycle types are surprisingly sparse, only covering just over two pages.
https://assets.usacycling.org/prod/documents/USACycling_RuleBook_7_2024.pdf >>
Pages 28 - 31
Uk hill climb competition is definitely non UCI with bikes being few KG lighter 6ish they do now require helmets and lights though they just have
to exist, the lights at least! And do still get some very weight focused
bits of kit, ie ridiculous light disk rotas etc that like the bling rim brakes previously worked but not well but where light and reassuring expensive and well fun bits of kit.
I have seen situations where someone raises an issue referring to UCI
rules, and the answer from the official is "this isn't a UCI race".
Oddly, I haven't seen any bicycle-like exercise machines being sold on
the basis of them being light weight. Probably the same for moving
bicycle-like exercise machines (i.e. trainers).
Note: The discussion was initially about adapting fixie technology to
a tricycle (Catrike). Andrew commented:
"While almost everything humans can imagine is possible when
time and money have no value, there's no practical
straightforward way to make a Catrike fixed gear."
I then provided a possible solution using hydraulics and mentioned
that weight would be "a huge concern, especially in racing". From
that point on, the comments assumed that such a hydraulic drive train
would be used on racing bicycles and that it would not be a good idea
because if would be unsuitable for racing. It might be best if we
simply not consider racing to be a suitable use for a hydraulic fixie
bicycle.
I probably should have clarified, the 6.8 Kg weight limit for UCI is a
_minimum_ weight. If one felt the need to ride a 30 pound walmart bike
in a UCI race, there wouldn't be any rule against it as long as all the
other mechanical requirements are met.
Roger Merriman
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 546 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 36:48:48 |
| Calls: | 10,392 |
| Calls today: | 3 |
| Files: | 14,064 |
| Messages: | 6,417,159 |
