Ok this is a good crowd for the issue but not a bike. My walk behind
Troy Built self propelled mower won't start. It is a no choke you just
pull and it supposed to start. Well it has been maybe 5 months right in
the garage. The fluid is ok and the mower only has 2 season on it new 2
years ago. I keep pulling and smell gas but won't really catch or seem
to get close. I read the manual and seems probably a carb issue and got
to take apart and clean it. I don't want to I just want to get it
started and it should work for the season.
I tried dabbing some gas in carborator where I took off filter. No luck
do you think starting fluid sprayed direct will get it going. Give me
any real world tips the videos of this are just a pain the ass and I
want to quick start knowing once it gets going it will.
Ok this is a good crowd for the issue but not a bike. My walk behind
Troy Built self propelled mower won't start. It is a no choke you just
pull and it supposed to start. Well it has been maybe 5 months right in
the garage. The fluid is ok and the mower only has 2 season on it new 2
years ago. I keep pulling and smell gas but won't really catch or seem
to get close. I read the manual and seems probably a carb issue and got
to take apart and clean it. I don't want to I just want to get it
started and it should work for the season.
I tried dabbing some gas in carborator where I took off filter. No luck
do you think starting fluid sprayed direct will get it going. Give me
any real world tips the videos of this are just a pain the ass and I
want to quick start knowing once it gets going it will.
Ok this is a good crowd for the issue but not a bike. My
walk behind Troy Built self propelled mower won't start. It
is a no choke you just pull and it supposed to start. Well
it has been maybe 5 months right in the garage. The fluid is
ok and the mower only has 2 season on it new 2 years ago. I
keep pulling and smell gas but won't really catch or seem to
get close. I read the manual and seems probably a carb issue
and got to take apart and clean it. I don't want to I just
want to get it started and it should work for the season.
I tried dabbing some gas in carborator where I took off
filter. No luck do you think starting fluid sprayed direct
will get it going. Give me any real world tips the videos of
this are just a pain the ass and I want to quick start
knowing once it gets going it will.
On 4/11/2025 3:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
Ok this is a good crowd for the issue but not a bike. My
walk behind Troy Built self propelled mower won't start. It
is a no choke you just pull and it supposed to start. Well
it has been maybe 5 months right in the garage. The fluid is
ok and the mower only has 2 season on it new 2 years ago. I
keep pulling and smell gas but won't really catch or seem to
get close. I read the manual and seems probably a carb issue
and got to take apart and clean it. I don't want to I just
want to get it started and it should work for the season.
I tried dabbing some gas in carborator where I took off
filter. No luck do you think starting fluid sprayed direct
will get it going. Give me any real world tips the videos of
this are just a pain the ass and I want to quick start
knowing once it gets going it will.
Modern gasoline is a well known problem for small engines
especially when left standing over a season. I'm told the
fix is to drain the tank then and run the engine until lines
are all emptied before storage.
Yes, ether is both likely to start it and also the usual--
definitive test to know if it was in fact a fuel problem.
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 18:01:37 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:no A 4 Stroke lawn mower engine you don't mix gas and oil has separate
On 4/11/2025 3:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
Ok this is a good crowd for the issue but not a bike. My
walk behind Troy Built self propelled mower won't start. It
is a no choke you just pull and it supposed to start. Well
it has been maybe 5 months right in the garage. The fluid is
ok and the mower only has 2 season on it new 2 years ago. I
keep pulling and smell gas but won't really catch or seem to
get close. I read the manual and seems probably a carb issue
and got to take apart and clean it. I don't want to I just
want to get it started and it should work for the season.
I tried dabbing some gas in carborator where I took off
filter. No luck do you think starting fluid sprayed direct
will get it going. Give me any real world tips the videos of
this are just a pain the ass and I want to quick start
knowing once it gets going it will.
Modern gasoline is a well known problem for small engines
especially when left standing over a season. I'm told the
fix is to drain the tank then and run the engine until lines
are all emptied before storage.
The only gasoline-motor utility at home is my chainsaw. And
the manual says to drain gasoline from the tank if it's not going to
be used for a few months.
So, that is probably the problem.
I assume the engine is 2-stroke and the OP is putting oil in
the right proportion?
Good idea to clean and re gap the sparkplug. Might be
carbonized.
And that's the extent of my knowledge of motor-thingies.
[]'s
Yes, ether is both likely to start it and also the usual
definitive test to know if it was in fact a fuel problem.
On 4/11/2025 6:58 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 18:01:37 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:no A 4 Stroke lawn mower engine you don't mix gas and oil has separate
On 4/11/2025 3:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
Ok this is a good crowd for the issue but not a bike. My
walk behind Troy Built self propelled mower won't start. It
is a no choke you just pull and it supposed to start. Well
it has been maybe 5 months right in the garage. The fluid is
ok and the mower only has 2 season on it new 2 years ago. I
keep pulling and smell gas but won't really catch or seem to
get close. I read the manual and seems probably a carb issue
and got to take apart and clean it. I don't want to I just
want to get it started and it should work for the season.
I tried dabbing some gas in carborator where I took off
filter. No luck do you think starting fluid sprayed direct
will get it going. Give me any real world tips the videos of
this are just a pain the ass and I want to quick start
knowing once it gets going it will.
Modern gasoline is a well known problem for small engines
especially when left standing over a season. I'm told the
fix is to drain the tank then and run the engine until lines
are all emptied before storage.
The only gasoline-motor utility at home is my chainsaw. And
the manual says to drain gasoline from the tank if it's not going to
be used for a few months.
So, that is probably the problem.
I assume the engine is 2-stroke and the OP is putting oil in
the right proportion?
Good idea to clean and re gap the sparkplug. Might be
carbonized.
And that's the extent of my knowledge of motor-thingies.
[]'s
Yes, ether is both likely to start it and also the usual
definitive test to know if it was in fact a fuel problem.
oil compartment and dipstick
Oh, and it occurs to me that Jeff should be the one answering your
question! He's probably done this sort of thing more than any of us.
As an aside, most of the problems with small engines being stored for
long periods of time can be caused by the fact that much "Gas Station"
gas contains Ethanol. It's worth it to search for "pure gasoline" gas. >https://www.buyrealgas.com/states.html
https://www.pure-gas.org/
I believe that some airfields that cater to old fashioned propeller
airplanes may also stock it.
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 22:59:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Oh, and it occurs to me that Jeff should be the one answering your >>question! He's probably done this sort of thing more than any of us.
I don't have the time. Short version:
Troy-Bilt is a good brand of mower. I guess "self propelled" means
you have a riding mower. A model number would be helpful so I can
determine what type of engine you might be using.
2 stroke engines (chain saw, blower, trimmer) are very different from
4 stroke engines (generator, lawn mower, go cart, zero turn, lawn
tractor).
The basic difference is that you add oil to the gasoline on a 2 stroke
but not on a 4 stroke. Unfortunately, there are 4 stroke chainsaws
and blower the require the addition of oil in the gas. If you engine
has an oil sump, oil filler and drain plug, it's a 4 stroke.
Another difference is that 4 stroke carburetors have a fuel bowl while
2 strokes do not have a fuel bowl. If you're going to empty the fuel
system on a 4 stroke engine, don't forget to also empty the
carburetor. Honda clone engines have a 2nd drain plug on the fuel
bowl for draining the fuel and any water that has accumulated.
Bad fuel is a common problem with anything that's been sitting for
more than about 3 months. Humidity condenses water in the fuel bowl
and gasoline tank. It takes very little water in either to prevent an
engine from starting. Remove the fuel bowl and pour the gas into a
white coffee cup. Allow about 15 mins for the water to settle to the
bottom of the tank. You can see the dividing line between the water
and gas. Water in the gasoline looks hazy until the water settles.
Old gas also smells very different than fresh gas. If you don't like >smelling gas, just pour a few a small amount of gas on a brick or
metal plate and set fire to it. Good gas will burn but old gas will
act like you're trying to burn water, which is why the old gas won't
burn.
You might have a "gel" problem, where old gasoline and fuel stabilizer
form a gelatinous goo that plugs up the carburetor. I suggest you
avoid fuel stabilizer or cycle your mower gas through your automobile
every 6 months or so. Carb cleaner will soften the gel, but is
difficult to remove from the passages, jets and emulsion tube from the
inside of the carburetor without using an ultrasonic cleaner.
Speaking of ultrasonic cleaner, mine is an MH-020A 3.2 Liter. ><https://www.ebay.com/itm/365401504638>
Avoid using a solvent type degreaser. I use a minimal amount of
dishwashing soap (Dawn Platinum). The water should be fairly hot (I
forgot the temp). The work is done by cavitation bubbles, not
solvents. If your aluminum carburetor turns dark grey or black, you
have either the wrong degreaser or too much degreaser. Dark aluminum
won't hurt the engine but it does look awful.
I'm not going to recommend all the possible ways to test an engine to
see if it runs. There are numerous videos available on how to start a
4 stroke that won't start. Basically:
1. Make sure the mower has oil in the sump. All the Troy-Bilt mowers
have oil level switches that will kill the ignition if there's no oil.
2. Check for spark with a proper spark plug tester. If the spark gap
looks "crusty" clean or replace the plug.
3. Disconnect the fuel line between the gas tank and the carb.
4. Replace it with a short (about 6") length of translucent fuel
line. Fill the fuel line with fresh gas. The fuel should fill the
line until the needle valve closes. At that point, the fuel level
should remain constant and not go down. If it does go down, the
needle valve and seat might need cleaning or replacement.
5. Remove the air box (and air filter). Spray 1 short blast of
carburetor cleaner into the carb. Just one blast or maybe two, but no
more.
6. Try to start the engine. If everything is working, then it should
run for a few seconds and then die.
7. If you think it's running, then empty the gas tank into 2L soft
drink bottles. Use a rag on a stick to mop up any remaining water. If
you don't want to do that, make a temporary fuel tank from an inverted >bottle, fuel line and fuel valve for testing.
There are all kinds of other things that could go wrong at this point.
Too much for me to explain tonight.
I've been watching YouTube videos from: ><https://www.youtube.com/@jcondon1/videos> ><https://www.youtube.com/@Chickanic>
James Condon knows 4 stroke engines, while "Chickanic" knows lawn
equipment. Start with the more recent videos because both had a
rather long and painful learning curve when they started making
videos. The videos that are less than about 5 years old are more
organized and useful.
So much for short version.
Good luck with the repair.
On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 13:05:24 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
(chomp)
As an aside, most of the problems with small engines being stored for
long periods of time can be caused by the fact that much "Gas Station"
gas contains Ethanol. It's worth it to search for "pure gasoline" gas.
https://www.buyrealgas.com/states.html
https://www.pure-gas.org/
True. Here's a video that explains what's happening:
"The Ugly Truth Why Gas Station Fuel Is Bad For Small Engines" <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvps2gF0Sdo>
I wasted some time and effort trying to remove the ethanol from retail gasoline. It can be done, but the results are not very good. The
problem is that ethanol is an octane booster. Take away the ethanol
and the octane rating of the gas goes down. If I start with regular,
the octane rating ends up so low that the engine might knock.
Actually, modern engines change the timing advance so that the engine
just barely knocks. It doesn't ping and sorta runs, but not very
well.
I believe that some airfields that cater to old fashioned propeller
airplanes may also stock it.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas#93UL_(Ethanol-free_93AKI_automotive_gasoline)>
Ethanol free gas in a car probably won't hurt the car engine. However,
there is no authoritative consensus as to whether it's a good or bad
idea. Try sampling some articles on the topic: <https://www.google.com/search?q=using%20ethanol%20free%20avgas%20in%20car>
I have little experience and no opinion.
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 21:58:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 22:59:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Oh, and it occurs to me that Jeff should be the one answering your
question! He's probably done this sort of thing more than any of us.
I don't have the time. Short version:
Troy-Bilt is a good brand of mower. I guess "self propelled" means
you have a riding mower. A model number would be helpful so I can
determine what type of engine you might be using.
2 stroke engines (chain saw, blower, trimmer) are very different from
4 stroke engines (generator, lawn mower, go cart, zero turn, lawn
tractor).
The basic difference is that you add oil to the gasoline on a 2 stroke
but not on a 4 stroke. Unfortunately, there are 4 stroke chainsaws
and blower the require the addition of oil in the gas. If you engine
has an oil sump, oil filler and drain plug, it's a 4 stroke.
Another difference is that 4 stroke carburetors have a fuel bowl while
2 strokes do not have a fuel bowl. If you're going to empty the fuel
system on a 4 stroke engine, don't forget to also empty the
carburetor. Honda clone engines have a 2nd drain plug on the fuel
bowl for draining the fuel and any water that has accumulated.
Bad fuel is a common problem with anything that's been sitting for
more than about 3 months. Humidity condenses water in the fuel bowl
and gasoline tank. It takes very little water in either to prevent an
engine from starting. Remove the fuel bowl and pour the gas into a
white coffee cup. Allow about 15 mins for the water to settle to the
bottom of the tank. You can see the dividing line between the water
and gas. Water in the gasoline looks hazy until the water settles.
Old gas also smells very different than fresh gas. If you don't like
smelling gas, just pour a few a small amount of gas on a brick or
metal plate and set fire to it. Good gas will burn but old gas will
act like you're trying to burn water, which is why the old gas won't
burn.
You might have a "gel" problem, where old gasoline and fuel stabilizer
form a gelatinous goo that plugs up the carburetor. I suggest you
avoid fuel stabilizer or cycle your mower gas through your automobile
every 6 months or so. Carb cleaner will soften the gel, but is
difficult to remove from the passages, jets and emulsion tube from the
inside of the carburetor without using an ultrasonic cleaner.
Speaking of ultrasonic cleaner, mine is an MH-020A 3.2 Liter.
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/365401504638>
Avoid using a solvent type degreaser. I use a minimal amount of
dishwashing soap (Dawn Platinum). The water should be fairly hot (I
forgot the temp). The work is done by cavitation bubbles, not
solvents. If your aluminum carburetor turns dark grey or black, you
have either the wrong degreaser or too much degreaser. Dark aluminum
won't hurt the engine but it does look awful.
I'm not going to recommend all the possible ways to test an engine to
see if it runs. There are numerous videos available on how to start a
4 stroke that won't start. Basically:
1. Make sure the mower has oil in the sump. All the Troy-Bilt mowers
have oil level switches that will kill the ignition if there's no oil.
2. Check for spark with a proper spark plug tester. If the spark gap
looks "crusty" clean or replace the plug.
3. Disconnect the fuel line between the gas tank and the carb.
4. Replace it with a short (about 6") length of translucent fuel
line. Fill the fuel line with fresh gas. The fuel should fill the
line until the needle valve closes. At that point, the fuel level
should remain constant and not go down. If it does go down, the
needle valve and seat might need cleaning or replacement.
5. Remove the air box (and air filter). Spray 1 short blast of
carburetor cleaner into the carb. Just one blast or maybe two, but no
more.
6. Try to start the engine. If everything is working, then it should
run for a few seconds and then die.
7. If you think it's running, then empty the gas tank into 2L soft
drink bottles. Use a rag on a stick to mop up any remaining water. If
you don't want to do that, make a temporary fuel tank from an inverted
bottle, fuel line and fuel valve for testing.
There are all kinds of other things that could go wrong at this point.
Too much for me to explain tonight.
I've been watching YouTube videos from:
<https://www.youtube.com/@jcondon1/videos>
<https://www.youtube.com/@Chickanic>
James Condon knows 4 stroke engines, while "Chickanic" knows lawn
equipment. Start with the more recent videos because both had a
rather long and painful learning curve when they started making
videos. The videos that are less than about 5 years old are more
organized and useful.
So much for short version.
Good luck with the repair.
As an aside, most of the problems with small engines being stored for
long periods of time can be caused by the fact that much "Gas Station"
gas contains Ethanol. It's worth it to search for "pure gasoline" gas. https://www.buyrealgas.com/states.html
https://www.pure-gas.org/
I believe that some airfields that cater to old fashioned propeller
airplanes may also stock it.
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 21:58:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 22:59:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Oh, and it occurs to me that Jeff should be the one answering your
question! He's probably done this sort of thing more than any of us.
I don't have the time. Short version:
Troy-Bilt is a good brand of mower. I guess "self propelled" means
you have a riding mower. A model number would be helpful so I can
determine what type of engine you might be using.
2 stroke engines (chain saw, blower, trimmer) are very different from
4 stroke engines (generator, lawn mower, go cart, zero turn, lawn
tractor).
The basic difference is that you add oil to the gasoline on a 2 stroke
but not on a 4 stroke. Unfortunately, there are 4 stroke chainsaws
and blower the require the addition of oil in the gas. If you engine
has an oil sump, oil filler and drain plug, it's a 4 stroke.
Another difference is that 4 stroke carburetors have a fuel bowl while
2 strokes do not have a fuel bowl. If you're going to empty the fuel
system on a 4 stroke engine, don't forget to also empty the
carburetor. Honda clone engines have a 2nd drain plug on the fuel
bowl for draining the fuel and any water that has accumulated.
Bad fuel is a common problem with anything that's been sitting for
more than about 3 months. Humidity condenses water in the fuel bowl
and gasoline tank. It takes very little water in either to prevent an
engine from starting. Remove the fuel bowl and pour the gas into a
white coffee cup. Allow about 15 mins for the water to settle to the
bottom of the tank. You can see the dividing line between the water
and gas. Water in the gasoline looks hazy until the water settles.
Old gas also smells very different than fresh gas. If you don't like
smelling gas, just pour a few a small amount of gas on a brick or
metal plate and set fire to it. Good gas will burn but old gas will
act like you're trying to burn water, which is why the old gas won't
burn.
You might have a "gel" problem, where old gasoline and fuel stabilizer
form a gelatinous goo that plugs up the carburetor. I suggest you
avoid fuel stabilizer or cycle your mower gas through your automobile
every 6 months or so. Carb cleaner will soften the gel, but is
difficult to remove from the passages, jets and emulsion tube from the
inside of the carburetor without using an ultrasonic cleaner.
Speaking of ultrasonic cleaner, mine is an MH-020A 3.2 Liter.
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/365401504638>
Avoid using a solvent type degreaser. I use a minimal amount of
dishwashing soap (Dawn Platinum). The water should be fairly hot (I
forgot the temp). The work is done by cavitation bubbles, not
solvents. If your aluminum carburetor turns dark grey or black, you
have either the wrong degreaser or too much degreaser. Dark aluminum
won't hurt the engine but it does look awful.
I'm not going to recommend all the possible ways to test an engine to
see if it runs. There are numerous videos available on how to start a
4 stroke that won't start. Basically:
1. Make sure the mower has oil in the sump. All the Troy-Bilt mowers
have oil level switches that will kill the ignition if there's no oil.
2. Check for spark with a proper spark plug tester. If the spark gap
looks "crusty" clean or replace the plug.
3. Disconnect the fuel line between the gas tank and the carb.
4. Replace it with a short (about 6") length of translucent fuel
line. Fill the fuel line with fresh gas. The fuel should fill the
line until the needle valve closes. At that point, the fuel level
should remain constant and not go down. If it does go down, the
needle valve and seat might need cleaning or replacement.
5. Remove the air box (and air filter). Spray 1 short blast of
carburetor cleaner into the carb. Just one blast or maybe two, but no
more.
6. Try to start the engine. If everything is working, then it should
run for a few seconds and then die.
7. If you think it's running, then empty the gas tank into 2L soft
drink bottles. Use a rag on a stick to mop up any remaining water. If
you don't want to do that, make a temporary fuel tank from an inverted
bottle, fuel line and fuel valve for testing.
There are all kinds of other things that could go wrong at this point.
Too much for me to explain tonight.
I've been watching YouTube videos from:
<https://www.youtube.com/@jcondon1/videos>
<https://www.youtube.com/@Chickanic>
James Condon knows 4 stroke engines, while "Chickanic" knows lawn
equipment. Start with the more recent videos because both had a
rather long and painful learning curve when they started making
videos. The videos that are less than about 5 years old are more
organized and useful.
So much for short version.
Good luck with the repair.
I was going to drop a little information about old gas, but then, I
said to myself, "self, very soon, Mr. Liebermann will see this and
provide a massive amount of information that will blow away anything I
could have said.
...and you did, calling it a "short version."
That information about Troy Built" engines having a low engine oil
ignition block is interesting. Something that those of us who don't
read user manuals would probably never have discovered.
Kudos to you.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I was going to drop a little information about old gas, but then, I
said to myself, "self, very soon, Mr. Liebermann will see this and
provide a massive amount of information that will blow away anything I
could have said.
...and you did, calling it a "short version."
That information about Troy Built" engines having a low engine oil
ignition block is interesting. Something that those of us who don't
read user manuals would probably never have discovered.
Kudos to you.
On 4/11/2025 1:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
Ok this is a good crowd for the issue but not a bike. My walk behind
Troy Built self propelled mower won't start. It is a no choke you just
pull and it supposed to start. Well it has been maybe 5 months right
in the garage. The fluid is ok and the mower only has 2 season on it
new 2 years ago. I keep pulling and smell gas but won't really catch
or seem to get close. I read the manual and seems probably a carb
issue and got to take apart and clean it. I don't want to I just want
to get it started and it should work for the season.
I tried dabbing some gas in carborator where I took off filter. No
luck do you think starting fluid sprayed direct will get it going.
Give me any real world tips the videos of this are just a pain the ass
and I want to quick start knowing once it gets going it will.
Just tried to start a small generator. Starting fluid gets it going for
a few second, but that's it.
It's likely that old gasoline has clogged the carb with varnish. I
removed the carb yesterday and need to buy some fresh gasoline to soak
it in.
The manual warns that old gasoline left in the tank will eventually
cause clogging and says to use fuel stabilizer if it's stored with
gasoline in the tank.
Ok this is a good crowd for the issue but not a bike. My walk behind
Troy Built self propelled mower won't start. It is a no choke you just
pull and it supposed to start. Well it has been maybe 5 months right in
the garage. The fluid is ok and the mower only has 2 season on it new 2
years ago. I keep pulling and smell gas but won't really catch or seem
to get close. I read the manual and seems probably a carb issue and got
to take apart and clean it. I don't want to I just want to get it
started and it should work for the season.
I tried dabbing some gas in carborator where I took off filter. No luck
do you think starting fluid sprayed direct will get it going. Give me
any real world tips the videos of this are just a pain the ass and I
want to quick start knowing once it gets going it will.
On 4/11/2025 4:39 PM, sms wrote:
On 4/11/2025 1:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
Ok this is a good crowd for the issue but not a bike. My
walk behind Troy Built self propelled mower won't start.
It is a no choke you just pull and it supposed to start.
Well it has been maybe 5 months right in the garage. The
fluid is ok and the mower only has 2 season on it new 2
years ago. I keep pulling and smell gas but won't really
catch or seem to get close. I read the manual and seems
probably a carb issue and got to take apart and clean it.
I don't want to I just want to get it started and it
should work for the season.
I tried dabbing some gas in carborator where I took off
filter. No luck do you think starting fluid sprayed
direct will get it going. Give me any real world tips the
videos of this are just a pain the ass and I want to
quick start knowing once it gets going it will.
Just tried to start a small generator. Starting fluid gets
it going for a few second, but that's it.
It's likely that old gasoline has clogged the carb with
varnish. I removed the carb yesterday and need to buy some
fresh gasoline to soak it in.
The manual warns that old gasoline left in the tank will
eventually cause clogging and says to use fuel stabilizer
if it's stored with gasoline in the tank.
Oh, my praise the Lord the starting fluid fired the mower up
on 2nd pull. I hate yard work and mowing goes back to my
childhood. My mother made us clean up the yard on Saturdays
what a chore I never like it, got in the way of Saturday fun.
This mower is ok but really it is only 140cc I should have
sprung for the bigger motor of 163 to make things easier.
Sort related to gearing on a bike. You need the right gears
and the right power to get certain things done better.
On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 07:37:35 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I was going to drop a little information about old gas, but then, I
said to myself, "self, very soon, Mr. Liebermann will see this and
provide a massive amount of information that will blow away anything I >>could have said.
...and you did, calling it a "short version."
Thanks. It was longer than I had intended. I ran it through a
spelling checker and forgot to proof read it, leaving some grammar
errors. Sorry.
That information about Troy Built" engines having a low engine oil
ignition block is interesting. Something that those of us who don't
read user manuals would probably never have discovered.
Do we even still have user manuals? Usually, the box contains "read
me" page, some kind of warranty disclaimer, and pages of safety
warnings to keep the lawyers under control. If there are any
instructions, they're usually brief and followed by a link to the
company web page.
This might be of some interest for Troy-Bilt owners: ><https://www.troybilt.com/en_US/lawn-mower-engine-parts>
Troy-Bilt is a brand owned by Stanley Black and Decker and/or MTD
Holdings. Troy-Bilt use engines by PowerMore, Honda, Kohler, Briggs & >Stratton, Tecumseh, or Kawasaki.
Kudos to you.
Thanks again.
On 4/12/2025 1:41 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 13:05:24 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
(chomp)
As an aside, most of the problems with small engines being stored for
long periods of time can be caused by the fact that much "Gas Station"
gas contains Ethanol. It's worth it to search for "pure gasoline" gas.
https://www.buyrealgas.com/states.html
https://www.pure-gas.org/
True. Here's a video that explains what's happening:
"The Ugly Truth Why Gas Station Fuel Is Bad For Small Engines"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvps2gF0Sdo>
I wasted some time and effort trying to remove the ethanol from retail
gasoline. It can be done, but the results are not very good. The
problem is that ethanol is an octane booster. Take away the ethanol
and the octane rating of the gas goes down. If I start with regular,
the octane rating ends up so low that the engine might knock.
Actually, modern engines change the timing advance so that the engine
just barely knocks. It doesn't ping and sorta runs, but not very
well.
I believe that some airfields that cater to old fashioned propeller
airplanes may also stock it.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas#93UL_(Ethanol-free_93AKI_automotive_gasoline)>
Ethanol free gas in a car probably won't hurt the car engine. However,
there is no authoritative consensus as to whether it's a good or bad
idea. Try sampling some articles on the topic:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=using%20ethanol%20free%20avgas%20in%20car> >> I have little experience and no opinion.
+1
Since none of my autos has computer controls, I pay
attention to fuels* and for one engine in particular only
no-ethanol premium.
*My engine guru says most modern autos can digest a range of
fuels, as the computer adjusts spark timing and injection to
whatever it is, but small engines don't have those.
On 4/12/2025 1:05 AM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 21:58:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
You might have a "gel" problem, where old gasoline and fuel stabilizer
form a gelatinous goo that plugs up the carburetor. I suggest you
avoid fuel stabilizer or cycle your mower gas through your automobile
every 6 months or so. Carb cleaner will soften the gel, but is
difficult to remove from the passages, jets and emulsion tube from the
inside of the carburetor without using an ultrasonic cleaner.
+1
Ethanol is food for bacteria which make a biofilm goo in all
the hard to reach passages and ports. The extra water from
condensation only speeds that process.
On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 07:51:21 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 4/12/2025 1:41 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 13:05:24 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
(chomp)
As an aside, most of the problems with small engines being stored for
long periods of time can be caused by the fact that much "Gas Station" >>>> gas contains Ethanol. It's worth it to search for "pure gasoline" gas. >>>> https://www.buyrealgas.com/states.html
https://www.pure-gas.org/
True. Here's a video that explains what's happening:
"The Ugly Truth Why Gas Station Fuel Is Bad For Small Engines"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvps2gF0Sdo>
I wasted some time and effort trying to remove the ethanol from retail
gasoline. It can be done, but the results are not very good. The
problem is that ethanol is an octane booster. Take away the ethanol
and the octane rating of the gas goes down. If I start with regular,
the octane rating ends up so low that the engine might knock.
Actually, modern engines change the timing advance so that the engine
just barely knocks. It doesn't ping and sorta runs, but not very
well.
I believe that some airfields that cater to old fashioned propeller
airplanes may also stock it.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas#93UL_(Ethanol-free_93AKI_automotive_gasoline)>
Ethanol free gas in a car probably won't hurt the car engine. However,
there is no authoritative consensus as to whether it's a good or bad
idea. Try sampling some articles on the topic:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=using%20ethanol%20free%20avgas%20in%20car> >>> I have little experience and no opinion.
+1
Since none of my autos has computer controls, I pay
attention to fuels* and for one engine in particular only
no-ethanol premium.
*My engine guru says most modern autos can digest a range of
fuels, as the computer adjusts spark timing and injection to
whatever it is, but small engines don't have those.
I beg to differ somewhat. Chainsaw engines for the homeowner market
don't have computerized timing. However, modern commercial chainsaws certainly do have automagic timing adjust features. For example, the
Stihl M-Tronic system: <https://www.stihl.co.uk/en/stihl-technology/ignition-systems/m-tronic> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=m-tronic%20stihl>
I haven't worked on one of these saws (yet), so I don't have any
experience with M-Tronic ignitions.
Husqvarna has "AutoTune" to dynamically adjust the fuel/air mixture: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVyjrn8Oeho>
Echo has Slope Advance Ignition 1 through 3 and Digital CDI (Cazapitor Discharge Ignition) for ignition advance: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiMbH3JlASM>
Ethanol is food for bacteria which make a biofilm goo in all
the hard to reach passages and ports. The extra water from
condensation only speeds that process.
On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 07:45:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Ethanol is food for bacteria which make a biofilm goo in all
the hard to reach passages and ports. The extra water from
condensation only speeds that process.
I once owned a 1988 FIAT Premio. Alcohol only. Sold it with
420.000 Km on the clock. I never had the engine "done". Ethanol burns
cooler and cleaner than gasoline.
Spark plugs changed every 10.000 Km looked new. Probably the
best car I've ever owned.
Now they're all "Flex". You can fill up with, say, 30 liters
of ethanol and 10 liters of gasoline, and the onboard computer will
figure out timing etc. And of course, they don't have carburetors
anymore, not sure there is anything to clog up.
I remembered, there is. In winter you need to use gasoline to
get the motor to start. So there is a 1 liter container of gasoline,
and it's injected when the computer decides it's too cold for ethanol.
You are supposed to replace the gasoline every year, but my wife
always forgets(her car is flex, but she uses mostly pure ethanol), so
I have to de-clog it once a year.
That might be a problem in cold places. Where I live it's
rarely sub-zero. Maybe once or twice a year.
[]'s
PS Ethanol is much cheaper than gasoline. In the olden days
I'd buy it directly from the local distillery, tax free, so even
cheaper. Had to take 200 liters of plastic containers, that's the
least they'd sell "on the side".
On 4/13/2025 10:02 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 07:45:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Ethanol is food for bacteria which make a biofilm goo in all
the hard to reach passages and ports. The extra water from
condensation only speeds that process.
I once owned a 1988 FIAT Premio. Alcohol only. Sold it with
420.000 Km on the clock. I never had the engine "done". Ethanol burns
cooler and cleaner than gasoline.
Spark plugs changed every 10.000 Km looked new. Probably the
best car I've ever owned.
Now they're all "Flex". You can fill up with, say, 30 liters
of ethanol and 10 liters of gasoline, and the onboard computer will
figure out timing etc. And of course, they don't have carburetors
anymore, not sure there is anything to clog up.
I remembered, there is. In winter you need to use gasoline to
get the motor to start. So there is a 1 liter container of gasoline,
and it's injected when the computer decides it's too cold for ethanol.
You are supposed to replace the gasoline every year, but my wife
always forgets(her car is flex, but she uses mostly pure ethanol), so
I have to de-clog it once a year.
That might be a problem in cold places. Where I live it's
rarely sub-zero. Maybe once or twice a year.
[]'s
PS Ethanol is much cheaper than gasoline. In the olden days
I'd buy it directly from the local distillery, tax free, so even
cheaper. Had to take 200 liters of plastic containers, that's the
least they'd sell "on the side".
+1 yes, Brasil has the world's most developed system for
ethanol autos, very high volume.
in re cold conditions, we're significantly colder here. I
can recall helping friends with diesel autos and pickups in
bitter cold weather (-20, -25F) as their fuel solidified in
the fuel lines at those temps. Backing a Corvair to it with
bike carton cardboard sheets all around will warm the fuel
lines enough to start it.
I understand that winter blend diesel now has additives for
that problem.
On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 10:31:44 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 4/13/2025 10:02 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 07:45:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Ethanol is food for bacteria which make a biofilm goo in all
the hard to reach passages and ports. The extra water from
condensation only speeds that process.
I once owned a 1988 FIAT Premio. Alcohol only. Sold it with
420.000 Km on the clock. I never had the engine "done". Ethanol burns
cooler and cleaner than gasoline.
Spark plugs changed every 10.000 Km looked new. Probably the
best car I've ever owned.
Now they're all "Flex". You can fill up with, say, 30 liters
of ethanol and 10 liters of gasoline, and the onboard computer will
figure out timing etc. And of course, they don't have carburetors
anymore, not sure there is anything to clog up.
I remembered, there is. In winter you need to use gasoline to
get the motor to start. So there is a 1 liter container of gasoline,
and it's injected when the computer decides it's too cold for ethanol.
You are supposed to replace the gasoline every year, but my wife
always forgets(her car is flex, but she uses mostly pure ethanol), so
I have to de-clog it once a year.
That might be a problem in cold places. Where I live it's
rarely sub-zero. Maybe once or twice a year.
[]'s
PS Ethanol is much cheaper than gasoline. In the olden days
I'd buy it directly from the local distillery, tax free, so even
cheaper. Had to take 200 liters of plastic containers, that's the
least they'd sell "on the side".
+1 yes, Brasil has the world's most developed system for
ethanol autos, very high volume.
in re cold conditions, we're significantly colder here. I
can recall helping friends with diesel autos and pickups in
bitter cold weather (-20, -25F) as their fuel solidified in
the fuel lines at those temps. Backing a Corvair to it with
bike carton cardboard sheets all around will warm the fuel
lines enough to start it.
I understand that winter blend diesel now has additives for
that problem.
When I was a kid growing up on the farm in northern Illinois, our
neighbors had one the last of the big John Deere two cylinder
tractors. It was a diesel and required a small gas engine just to turn
it over. I don't recall any frozen gas lines on it, nor on our IH four cylinder diesel. My son in law, in Wisconsin, has several diesel
tractors, harvesters, a pickup and a big 18 wheel rig. I don't recall
him having any such trouble, but having all sorts of other mechanical troubles, as farmers are having these days with Chinese made stuff, he
may not have mentioned that one.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 10:31:44 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 4/13/2025 10:02 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 07:45:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
Ethanol is food for bacteria which make a biofilm goo in all
the hard to reach passages and ports. The extra water from
condensation only speeds that process.
I once owned a 1988 FIAT Premio. Alcohol only. Sold it with
420.000 Km on the clock. I never had the engine "done". Ethanol burns
cooler and cleaner than gasoline.
Spark plugs changed every 10.000 Km looked new. Probably the
best car I've ever owned.
Now they're all "Flex". You can fill up with, say, 30 liters
of ethanol and 10 liters of gasoline, and the onboard computer will
figure out timing etc. And of course, they don't have carburetors
anymore, not sure there is anything to clog up.
I remembered, there is. In winter you need to use gasoline to
get the motor to start. So there is a 1 liter container of gasoline,
and it's injected when the computer decides it's too cold for ethanol. >>>> You are supposed to replace the gasoline every year, but my wife
always forgets(her car is flex, but she uses mostly pure ethanol), so
I have to de-clog it once a year.
That might be a problem in cold places. Where I live it's
rarely sub-zero. Maybe once or twice a year.
[]'s
PS Ethanol is much cheaper than gasoline. In the olden days
I'd buy it directly from the local distillery, tax free, so even
cheaper. Had to take 200 liters of plastic containers, that's the
least they'd sell "on the side".
+1 yes, Brasil has the world's most developed system for
ethanol autos, very high volume.
in re cold conditions, we're significantly colder here. I
can recall helping friends with diesel autos and pickups in
bitter cold weather (-20, -25F) as their fuel solidified in
the fuel lines at those temps. Backing a Corvair to it with
bike carton cardboard sheets all around will warm the fuel
lines enough to start it.
I understand that winter blend diesel now has additives for
that problem.
When I was a kid growing up on the farm in northern Illinois, our
neighbors had one the last of the big John Deere two cylinder
tractors. It was a diesel and required a small gas engine just to turn
it over. I don't recall any frozen gas lines on it, nor on our IH four
cylinder diesel. My son in law, in Wisconsin, has several diesel
tractors, harvesters, a pickup and a big 18 wheel rig. I don't recall
him having any such trouble, but having all sorts of other mechanical
troubles, as farmers are having these days with Chinese made stuff, he
may not have mentioned that one.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Potentially has some sort of additive to stop agricultural diesels from >freezing certainly the collage bus, In the winter would cough and
splutter due to its tank freezing be temperatures in the -5/10 range
(20/10 f) dont recall the farmers having problems but i equally didnt
ask! Though one neighbour had one of the Citroens which was a diesel and >floated over the track!
Roger Merriman
On 4/12/2025 5:03 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 07:51:21 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 4/12/2025 1:41 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 13:05:24 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
(chomp)
As an aside, most of the problems with small engines being stored for >>>>> long periods of time can be caused by the fact that much "Gas Station" >>>>> gas contains Ethanol. It's worth it to search for "pure gasoline" gas. >>>>> https://www.buyrealgas.com/states.html
https://www.pure-gas.org/
True. Here's a video that explains what's happening:
"The Ugly Truth Why Gas Station Fuel Is Bad For Small Engines"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvps2gF0Sdo>
I wasted some time and effort trying to remove the ethanol from retail >>>> gasoline. It can be done, but the results are not very good. The
problem is that ethanol is an octane booster. Take away the ethanol
and the octane rating of the gas goes down. If I start with regular,
the octane rating ends up so low that the engine might knock.
Actually, modern engines change the timing advance so that the engine
just barely knocks. It doesn't ping and sorta runs, but not very
well.
I believe that some airfields that cater to old fashioned propeller
airplanes may also stock it.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas#93UL_(Ethanol-free_93AKI_automotive_gasoline)>
Ethanol free gas in a car probably won't hurt the car engine. However, >>>> there is no authoritative consensus as to whether it's a good or bad
idea. Try sampling some articles on the topic:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=using%20ethanol%20free%20avgas%20in%20car>
I have little experience and no opinion.
+1
Since none of my autos has computer controls, I pay
attention to fuels* and for one engine in particular only
no-ethanol premium.
*My engine guru says most modern autos can digest a range of
fuels, as the computer adjusts spark timing and injection to
whatever it is, but small engines don't have those.
I beg to differ somewhat. Chainsaw engines for the homeowner market
don't have computerized timing. However, modern commercial chainsaws
certainly do have automagic timing adjust features. For example, the
Stihl M-Tronic system:
<https://www.stihl.co.uk/en/stihl-technology/ignition-systems/m-tronic>
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=m-tronic%20stihl>
I haven't worked on one of these saws (yet), so I don't have any
experience with M-Tronic ignitions.
Husqvarna has "AutoTune" to dynamically adjust the fuel/air mixture:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVyjrn8Oeho>
Echo has Slope Advance Ignition 1 through 3 and Digital CDI (Cazapitor
Discharge Ignition) for ignition advance:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiMbH3JlASM>
Sounds truncated from sophisticated modern auto computer
systems.
in re cold conditions, we're significantly colder here. I
can recall helping friends with diesel autos and pickups in
bitter cold weather (-20, -25F) as their fuel solidified in
the fuel lines at those temps. Backing a Corvair to it with
bike carton cardboard sheets all around will warm the fuel
lines enough to start it.
On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 10:31:44 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
in re cold conditions, we're significantly colder here. I
can recall helping friends with diesel autos and pickups in
bitter cold weather (-20, -25F) as their fuel solidified in
the fuel lines at those temps. Backing a Corvair to it with
bike carton cardboard sheets all around will warm the fuel
lines enough to start it.
My Dodge 1983 RAM50 4WD turbo diesel pickup truck had a block heater
powered by 115VAC from a wall receptacle (and extension cord). I only
used it once, while on a ski trip, to convince the engine to start in
below freezing weather. I had forgotten to switch from 30w oil to
10w30. I don't recall any problems with the diesel fuel, probably
because the block heater also heated the diesel fuel in the filter and
pumps.
The only engine electronics was to power the glow plugs when starting
the engine. It was an analog timer, not digital. The design was
rather marginal, so I modified it several times until it worked
acceptably.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Triton> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Dodge-D50/index.html>
I drove it 289,000 miles. I really miss it.
On 4/11/2025 6:58 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 18:01:37 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 4/11/2025 3:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
Ok this is a good crowd for the issue but not a bike. My
walk behind Troy Built self propelled mower won't start. It
is a no choke you just pull and it supposed to start. Well
it has been maybe 5 months right in the garage. The fluid is
ok and the mower only has 2 season on it new 2 years ago. I
keep pulling and smell gas but won't really catch or seem to
get close. I read the manual and seems probably a carb issue
and got to take apart and clean it. I don't want to I just
want to get it started and it should work for the season.
I tried dabbing some gas in carborator where I took off
filter. No luck do you think starting fluid sprayed direct
will get it going. Give me any real world tips the videos of
this are just a pain the ass and I want to quick start
knowing once it gets going it will.
Modern gasoline is a well known problem for small engines
especially when left standing over a season. I'm told the
fix is to drain the tank then and run the engine until lines
are all emptied before storage.
The only gasoline-motor utility at home is my chainsaw. Andno A 4 Stroke lawn mower engine you don't mix gas and oil has separate
the manual says to drain gasoline from the tank if it's not going to
be used for a few months.
So, that is probably the problem.
I assume the engine is 2-stroke and the OP is putting oil in
the right proportion?
Good idea to clean and re gap the sparkplug. Might be
carbonized.
And that's the extent of my knowledge of motor-thingies.
[]'s
Yes, ether is both likely to start it and also the usual
definitive test to know if it was in fact a fuel problem.
oil compartment and dipstick
On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 13:05:24 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
(chomp)
As an aside, most of the problems with small engines being stored for
long periods of time can be caused by the fact that much "Gas Station"
gas contains Ethanol. It's worth it to search for "pure gasoline" gas. >https://www.buyrealgas.com/states.html
https://www.pure-gas.org/
True. Here's a video that explains what's happening:
"The Ugly Truth Why Gas Station Fuel Is Bad For Small Engines" <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvps2gF0Sdo>
I wasted some time and effort trying to remove the ethanol from retail gasoline. It can be done, but the results are not very good. The
problem is that ethanol is an octane booster. Take away the ethanol
and the octane rating of the gas goes down. If I start with regular,
the octane rating ends up so low that the engine might knock.
Actually, modern engines change the timing advance so that the engine
just barely knocks. It doesn't ping and sorta runs, but not very
well.
I believe that some airfields that cater to old fashioned propeller >airplanes may also stock it.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas#93UL_(Ethanol-free_93AKI_automotive_gasoline)>
Ethanol free gas in a car probably won't hurt the car engine. However,
there is no authoritative consensus as to whether it's a good or bad
idea. Try sampling some articles on the topic: <https://www.google.com/search?q=using%20ethanol%20free%20avgas%20in%20car>
I have little experience and no opinion.
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 19:05:58 -0500, Mark J cleary
<mcleary08@comcast.net> wrote:
On 4/11/2025 6:58 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 18:01:37 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:no A 4 Stroke lawn mower engine you don't mix gas and oil has separate
On 4/11/2025 3:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
Ok this is a good crowd for the issue but not a bike. My
walk behind Troy Built self propelled mower won't start. It
is a no choke you just pull and it supposed to start. Well
it has been maybe 5 months right in the garage. The fluid is
ok and the mower only has 2 season on it new 2 years ago. I
keep pulling and smell gas but won't really catch or seem to
get close. I read the manual and seems probably a carb issue
and got to take apart and clean it. I don't want to I just
want to get it started and it should work for the season.
I tried dabbing some gas in carborator where I took off
filter. No luck do you think starting fluid sprayed direct
will get it going. Give me any real world tips the videos of
this are just a pain the ass and I want to quick start
knowing once it gets going it will.
Modern gasoline is a well known problem for small engines
especially when left standing over a season. I'm told the
fix is to drain the tank then and run the engine until lines
are all emptied before storage.
The only gasoline-motor utility at home is my chainsaw. And
the manual says to drain gasoline from the tank if it's not going to
be used for a few months.
So, that is probably the problem.
I assume the engine is 2-stroke and the OP is putting oil in
the right proportion?
Good idea to clean and re gap the sparkplug. Might be
carbonized.
And that's the extent of my knowledge of motor-thingies.
[]'s
Yes, ether is both likely to start it and also the usual
definitive test to know if it was in fact a fuel problem.
oil compartment and dipstick
I know that. As in most cars.
Didn't know the mower was 4-stroke.
[]'s
On Fri Apr 11 21:15:54 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 19:05:58 -0500, Mark J cleary
<mcleary08@comcast.net> wrote:
On 4/11/2025 6:58 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 18:01:37 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:no A 4 Stroke lawn mower engine you don't mix gas and oil has separate
On 4/11/2025 3:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
Ok this is a good crowd for the issue but not a bike. My
walk behind Troy Built self propelled mower won't start. It
is a no choke you just pull and it supposed to start. Well
it has been maybe 5 months right in the garage. The fluid is
ok and the mower only has 2 season on it new 2 years ago. I
keep pulling and smell gas but won't really catch or seem to
get close. I read the manual and seems probably a carb issue
and got to take apart and clean it. I don't want to I just
want to get it started and it should work for the season.
I tried dabbing some gas in carborator where I took off
filter. No luck do you think starting fluid sprayed direct
will get it going. Give me any real world tips the videos of
this are just a pain the ass and I want to quick start
knowing once it gets going it will.
Modern gasoline is a well known problem for small engines
especially when left standing over a season. I'm told the
fix is to drain the tank then and run the engine until lines
are all emptied before storage.
The only gasoline-motor utility at home is my chainsaw. And
the manual says to drain gasoline from the tank if it's not going to
be used for a few months.
So, that is probably the problem.
I assume the engine is 2-stroke and the OP is putting oil in
the right proportion?
Good idea to clean and re gap the sparkplug. Might be
carbonized.
And that's the extent of my knowledge of motor-thingies.
[]'s
Yes, ether is both likely to start it and also the usual
definitive test to know if it was in fact a fuel problem.
oil compartment and dipstick
I know that. As in most cars.
Didn't know the mower was 4-stroke.
[]'s
They have to use a 4 stroke because that Toro is really gas hungry.
That is what gives me the idea that it is running rich rather than lean.
On 4/11/2025 3:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
My walk behind Troy Built self propelled mower won't start.
<https://www.troybilt.com/en_US/lawn-mower-engine-parts>
Troy-Bilt is a brand owned by Stanley Black and Decker and/or MTD
Holdings. Troy-Bilt use engines by PowerMore, Honda, Kohler, Briggs & Stratton, Tecumseh, or Kawasaki.
On Fri Apr 11 23:41:58 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 13:05:24 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
(chomp)
As an aside, most of the problems with small engines being stored for
long periods of time can be caused by the fact that much "Gas Station"
gas contains Ethanol. It's worth it to search for "pure gasoline" gas.
https://www.buyrealgas.com/states.html
https://www.pure-gas.org/
True. Here's a video that explains what's happening:
"The Ugly Truth Why Gas Station Fuel Is Bad For Small Engines"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvps2gF0Sdo>
I wasted some time and effort trying to remove the ethanol from retail
gasoline. It can be done, but the results are not very good. The
problem is that ethanol is an octane booster. Take away the ethanol
and the octane rating of the gas goes down. If I start with regular,
the octane rating ends up so low that the engine might knock.
Actually, modern engines change the timing advance so that the engine
just barely knocks. It doesn't ping and sorta runs, but not very
well.
I believe that some airfields that cater to old fashioned propeller
airplanes may also stock it.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas#93UL_(Ethanol-free_93AKI_automotive_gasoline)>
Ethanol free gas in a car probably won't hurt the car engine. However,
there is no authoritative consensus as to whether it's a good or bad
idea. Try sampling some articles on the topic:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=using%20ethanol%20free%20avgas%20in%20car> >> I have little experience and no opinion.
Middle grade gasoline doesn't have ethanol in it. So I use that.
Also for the laewn mower. And many states do not allow ethanol in gasolinr brcause it damages engines.
Middle grade gasoline doesn't have ethanol in it. So I use that.
Also for the laewn mower. And many states do not allow ethanol
in gasolinr brcause it damages engines.
On 4/14/2025 1:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
For many years, my mower has been an old 4 stroke Lawn Boy that I
For a while, there were attempts to meet California CARB requirements
for lawn equipment:
<https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/lawn-care-2/faq-california-green-lawn-care-law/>
The 2 cycle engines were too dirty to pass the requirements. 4 cycle
would pass, but needed computer controlled ignition and possibly fuel
injection. They've been largely replaced by battery powered lawn care
equipment.
inherited. It's self propelled, but the walk-behind speed is not fast
enough enough for me, and I hate the noise.
I've generally solved the problem by hiring teenagers to cut my lawn.
But the last available one, who's done it the past few years has
graduated college. I'm afraid I'm going to have to do the mowing myself.
I'd love to have an electric mower, largely because they are so quiet
and can be stored very compactly in my overcrowded garage. But our lot
is about 0.6 acres, with tons of creative landcaping (by my wife) that
is beautiful, but requires detailed mowing. For a few years I was half
owner of a riding mower but I sold it. It was very inappropriate due to
the large number of obstacles. It took almost as long as a walk behind
mower.
Again, I'd love an electric mower, but I'm not aware of one with
sufficient run time to do this lawn. Also, I've read some complaints
that the (rather expensive) batteries last only a few years (like 3
years in some cases) before needing replacement.
Advice is welcome, especially from those who actually have first hand knowledge.
On 4/14/2025 1:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
For many years, my mower has been an old 4 stroke Lawn Boy
For a while, there were attempts to meet California CARB
requirements
for lawn equipment:
<https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/lawn-care-2/faq-
california-green-lawn-care-law/>
The 2 cycle engines were too dirty to pass the
requirements. 4 cycle
would pass, but needed computer controlled ignition and
possibly fuel
injection. They've been largely replaced by battery
powered lawn care
equipment.
that I inherited. It's self propelled, but the walk-behind
speed is not fast enough enough for me, and I hate the noise.
I've generally solved the problem by hiring teenagers to cut
my lawn. But the last available one, who's done it the past
few years has graduated college. I'm afraid I'm going to
have to do the mowing myself.
I'd love to have an electric mower, largely because they are
so quiet and can be stored very compactly in my overcrowded
garage. But our lot is about 0.6 acres, with tons of
creative landcaping (by my wife) that is beautiful, but
requires detailed mowing. For a few years I was half owner
of a riding mower but I sold it. It was very inappropriate
due to the large number of obstacles. It took almost as long
as a walk behind mower.
Again, I'd love an electric mower, but I'm not aware of one
with sufficient run time to do this lawn. Also, I've read
some complaints that the (rather expensive) batteries last
only a few years (like 3 years in some cases) before needing
replacement.
Advice is welcome, especially from those who actually have
first hand knowledge.
On 4/14/2025 9:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/14/2025 1:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
For many years, my mower has been an old 4 stroke Lawn Boy that I
For a while, there were attempts to meet California CARB requirements
for lawn equipment:
<https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/lawn-care-2/faq- california-green-
lawn-care-law/>
The 2 cycle engines were too dirty to pass the requirements. 4 cycle
would pass, but needed computer controlled ignition and possibly fuel
injection. They've been largely replaced by battery powered lawn care
equipment.
inherited. It's self propelled, but the walk-behind speed is not fast
enough enough for me, and I hate the noise.
I've generally solved the problem by hiring teenagers to cut my lawn.
But the last available one, who's done it the past few years has
graduated college. I'm afraid I'm going to have to do the mowing myself.
I'd love to have an electric mower, largely because they are so quiet
and can be stored very compactly in my overcrowded garage. But our lot
is about 0.6 acres, with tons of creative landcaping (by my wife) that
is beautiful, but requires detailed mowing. For a few years I was half
owner of a riding mower but I sold it. It was very inappropriate due
to the large number of obstacles. It took almost as long as a walk
behind mower.
Again, I'd love an electric mower, but I'm not aware of one with
sufficient run time to do this lawn. Also, I've read some complaints
that the (rather expensive) batteries last only a few years (like 3
years in some cases) before needing replacement.
Advice is welcome, especially from those who actually have first hand
knowledge.
I'm not an expert but there were or are corded electrics as I knew
someone who loved his. Assuming your house is roughly centered on the
lot a 100ft cord would do.
On 4/14/2025 1:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
For a while, there were attempts to meet California CARB requirements
for lawn equipment:
<https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/lawn-care-2/faq-california-green-lawn-care-law/>
The 2 cycle engines were too dirty to pass the requirements. 4 cycle
would pass, but needed computer controlled ignition and possibly fuel
injection. They've been largely replaced by battery powered lawn care
equipment.
For many years, my mower has been an old 4 stroke Lawn Boy that I
inherited. It's self propelled, but the walk-behind speed is not fast
enough enough for me, and I hate the noise.
I've generally solved the problem by hiring teenagers to cut my lawn.
But the last available one, who's done it the past few years has
graduated college. I'm afraid I'm going to have to do the mowing myself.
I'd love to have an electric mower, largely because they are so quiet
and can be stored very compactly in my overcrowded garage. But our lot
is about 0.6 acres, with tons of creative landcaping (by my wife) that
is beautiful, but requires detailed mowing. For a few years I was half
owner of a riding mower but I sold it. It was very inappropriate due to
the large number of obstacles. It took almost as long as a walk behind
mower.
Again, I'd love an electric mower, but I'm not aware of one with
sufficient run time to do this lawn. Also, I've read some complaints
that the (rather expensive) batteries last only a few years (like 3
years in some cases) before needing replacement.
Advice is welcome, especially from those who actually have first hand >knowledge.
On 4/15/2025 8:39 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/14/2025 9:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/14/2025 1:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
For many years, my mower has been an old 4 stroke Lawn
For a while, there were attempts to meet California CARB
requirements
for lawn equipment:
<https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/lawn-care-2/faq-
california-green- lawn-care-law/>
The 2 cycle engines were too dirty to pass the
requirements. 4 cycle
would pass, but needed computer controlled ignition and
possibly fuel
injection. They've been largely replaced by battery
powered lawn care
equipment.
Boy that I inherited. It's self propelled, but the walk-
behind speed is not fast enough enough for me, and I hate
the noise.
I've generally solved the problem by hiring teenagers to
cut my lawn. But the last available one, who's done it
the past few years has graduated college. I'm afraid I'm
going to have to do the mowing myself.
I'd love to have an electric mower, largely because they
are so quiet and can be stored very compactly in my
overcrowded garage. But our lot is about 0.6 acres, with
tons of creative landcaping (by my wife) that is
beautiful, but requires detailed mowing. For a few years
I was half owner of a riding mower but I sold it. It was
very inappropriate due to the large number of obstacles.
It took almost as long as a walk behind mower.
Again, I'd love an electric mower, but I'm not aware of
one with sufficient run time to do this lawn. Also, I've
read some complaints that the (rather expensive)
batteries last only a few years (like 3 years in some
cases) before needing replacement.
Advice is welcome, especially from those who actually
have first hand knowledge.
I'm not an expert but there were or are corded electrics
as I knew someone who loved his. Assuming your house is
roughly centered on the lot a 100ft cord would do.
I know those exist, but there's no way it would work. I just
counted, and there are at least 13 "islands" of landscaping,
large trees or other obstacles I have to cut around. They'd
require far too much backtracking, etc. if I were dragging a
cord.
On 4/15/2025 8:39 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/14/2025 9:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
I'm not an expert but there were or are corded electrics as I knew
someone who loved his. Assuming your house is roughly centered on the
lot a 100ft cord would do.
I know those exist, but there's no way it would work. I just counted,
and there are at least 13 "islands" of landscaping, large trees or other >obstacles I have to cut around. They'd require far too much
backtracking, etc. if I were dragging a cord.
On 4/15/2025 8:39 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/14/2025 9:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:And you'll likely become an expert in wire splicing.
On 4/14/2025 1:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:I'm not an expert but there were or are corded electrics as I knew
For many years, my mower has been an old 4 stroke Lawn Boy that I
For a while, there were attempts to meet California CARB requirements
for lawn equipment:
<https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/lawn-care-2/faq-
california-green- lawn-care-law/>
The 2 cycle engines were too dirty to pass the requirements. 4 cycle >>>> would pass, but needed computer controlled ignition and possibly fuel
injection. They've been largely replaced by battery powered lawn care >>>> equipment.
inherited. It's self propelled, but the walk-behind speed is not
fast enough enough for me, and I hate the noise.
I've generally solved the problem by hiring teenagers to cut my
lawn. But the last available one, who's done it the past few years
has graduated college. I'm afraid I'm going to have to do the
mowing myself.
I'd love to have an electric mower, largely because they are so
quiet and can be stored very compactly in my overcrowded
garage. But our lot is about 0.6 acres, with tons of creative
landcaping (by my wife) that is beautiful, but requires detailed
mowing. For a few years I was half owner of a riding mower but I
sold it. It was very inappropriate due to the large number of
obstacles. It took almost as long as a walk behind mower.
Again, I'd love an electric mower, but I'm not aware of one with
sufficient run time to do this lawn. Also, I've read some
complaints that the (rather expensive) batteries last only a few
years (like 3 years in some cases) before needing replacement.
Advice is welcome, especially from those who actually have first
hand knowledge.
someone who loved his. Assuming your house is roughly centered on
the lot a 100ft cord would do.
I remember the last time I used a corded hedge trimmer. Worked great.
Went through that cord like buttah.
On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 17:22:57 -0400, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
I remember the last time I used a corded hedge trimmer. Worked great.
Went through that cord like buttah.
Obviously, you didn't read the 20 page warnings and repudiations of responsibility usually included with a hedge trimmer.
If you insist on not reading the documentation, I suggest you tie a
knot in the power cable about 6 ft from the hedge trimmer handle.
Attach a small weight (1 or 2 lbs) to knot. When using the hedge
trimmer, the weight will cause the cable to hang downward and away
from the blades.
If your habit of cutting the power cable seems to be incurable, I
suggest that you build some 6 ft sacrificial extension cables with
removable plugs and receptacles. When trimming, attach one of these
cables to the hedge trimmer end of your long power cable. After you
(again) cut through the power cable, just unplug the 6 ft section,
replace it with a new 6 ft section, and continue trimming. Later,
remove the plug and receptacle and use them for making additional
sacrificial 6 ft extension cables.
On 4/15/2025 2:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 13:29:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 4/15/2025 8:39 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/14/2025 9:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
I'm not an expert but there were or are corded electrics
as I knew
someone who loved his. Assuming your house is roughly
centered on the
lot a 100ft cord would do.
I know those exist, but there's no way it would work. I
just counted,
and there are at least 13 "islands" of landscaping, large
trees or other
obstacles I have to cut around. They'd require far too much
backtracking, etc. if I were dragging a cord.
Perhaps a robot lawn mower that goes around the trees?
<https://www.google.com/search?
q=robotic%20lawn%20mower&udm=2>
<https://www.youtube.com/results?
search_query=robot%20lawn%20mower>
I've been paying attention to the development of those for
years. There are now a couple models that don't require the
buried wire barrier systems (like Invisible Fences for
dogs), but use some local electronics that enhance GPS for
precise location. Supposedly one can manually steer the
mower around the lot and "teach" it where to mow and what to
avoid. They're quite pricey, though! I've got about 25,000
square feet to mow, and the Luba brand capable of that is
about $3000. That would get me a lot of teenager hours, if I
can recruit a new one. Also, its level of technology makes
me worry about long term reliability.
I had a thought about a simpler alternative that would
require far less technology. I'm not a guy that wants
beautiful lawn stripes, so I usually mow by cutting the
perimeter clockwise, then working my way inward, always
straddling the boundary between "that's cut" and "that's not
cut." Seems that a self propelled mower should be able to do
most of that on its own, if it could reliably tell the
difference between "cut" and "not yet cut." The "steering"
logic seems pretty simple, based on separate drives for the
left wheel and right wheel (or perhaps, left and right "tank
tracks" to handle lawn lumps and holes).
But I haven't been able to dream up a sensor system,
especially because in dry times, there will be patches that
are very non-uniform height. (My lawn is a diverse
ecosystem, the farthest thing from a putting green.) Machine
vision could probably do it, but that's very complex.
On 4/15/2025 5:58 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I bricked in my front yard at a house I owned. Very happy
with that over the years, and no mowing.
Why do we have lawns?
https://blog.nwf.org/2024/04/why-we-have-lawns/
TLDR: Fashion is weird and powerful.
Again, I'd love an electric mower, but I'm not aware of one with
sufficient run time to do this lawn. Also, I've read some complaints
that the (rather expensive) batteries last only a few years (like 3
years in some cases) before needing replacement.
On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 17:22:57 -0400, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
I remember the last time I used a corded hedge trimmer. Worked great.
Went through that cord like buttah.
Obviously, you didn't read the 20 page warnings and repudiations of responsibility usually included with a hedge trimmer.
If you insist on not reading the documentation, I suggest you tie a
knot in the power cable about 6 ft from the hedge trimmer handle.
Attach a small weight (1 or 2 lbs) to knot. When using the hedge
trimmer, the weight will cause the cable to hang downward and away
from the blades.
If your habit of cutting the power cable seems to be incurable, I
suggest that you build some 6 ft sacrificial extension cables with
removable plugs and receptacles. When trimming, attach one of these
cables to the hedge trimmer end of your long power cable. After you
(again) cut through the power cable, just unplug the 6 ft section,
replace it with a new 6 ft section, and continue trimming. Later,
remove the plug and receptacle and use them for making additional
sacrificial 6 ft extension cables.
Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> writes:
On 4/15/2025 8:39 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/14/2025 9:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:And you'll likely become an expert in wire splicing.
On 4/14/2025 1:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:I'm not an expert but there were or are corded electrics as I knew
For many years, my mower has been an old 4 stroke Lawn Boy that I
For a while, there were attempts to meet California CARB requirements >>>>> for lawn equipment:
<https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/lawn-care-2/faq-
california-green- lawn-care-law/>
The 2 cycle engines were too dirty to pass the requirements. 4 cycle >>>>> would pass, but needed computer controlled ignition and possibly fuel >>>>> injection. They've been largely replaced by battery powered lawn care >>>>> equipment.
inherited. It's self propelled, but the walk-behind speed is not
fast enough enough for me, and I hate the noise.
I've generally solved the problem by hiring teenagers to cut my
lawn. But the last available one, who's done it the past few years
has graduated college. I'm afraid I'm going to have to do the
mowing myself.
I'd love to have an electric mower, largely because they are so
quiet and can be stored very compactly in my overcrowded
garage. But our lot is about 0.6 acres, with tons of creative
landcaping (by my wife) that is beautiful, but requires detailed
mowing. For a few years I was half owner of a riding mower but I
sold it. It was very inappropriate due to the large number of
obstacles. It took almost as long as a walk behind mower.
Again, I'd love an electric mower, but I'm not aware of one with
sufficient run time to do this lawn. Also, I've read some
complaints that the (rather expensive) batteries last only a few
years (like 3 years in some cases) before needing replacement.
Advice is welcome, especially from those who actually have first
hand knowledge.
someone who loved his. Assuming your house is roughly centered on
the lot a 100ft cord would do.
I remember the last time I used a corded hedge trimmer. Worked great.
Went through that cord like buttah.
On 4/15/2025 4:42 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/15/2025 2:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 13:29:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 4/15/2025 8:39 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/14/2025 9:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
I'm not an expert but there were or are corded electrics as I knew
someone who loved his. Assuming your house is roughly centered on the >>>>> lot a 100ft cord would do.
I know those exist, but there's no way it would work. I just counted,
and there are at least 13 "islands" of landscaping, large trees or
other
obstacles I have to cut around. They'd require far too much
backtracking, etc. if I were dragging a cord.
Perhaps a robot lawn mower that goes around the trees?
<https://www.google.com/search? q=robotic%20lawn%20mower&udm=2>
<https://www.youtube.com/results? search_query=robot%20lawn%20mower>
I've been paying attention to the development of those for years.
There are now a couple models that don't require the buried wire
barrier systems (like Invisible Fences for dogs), but use some local
electronics that enhance GPS for precise location. Supposedly one can
manually steer the mower around the lot and "teach" it where to mow
and what to avoid. They're quite pricey, though! I've got about 25,000
square feet to mow, and the Luba brand capable of that is about $3000.
That would get me a lot of teenager hours, if I can recruit a new one.
Also, its level of technology makes me worry about long term reliability.
I had a thought about a simpler alternative that would require far
less technology. I'm not a guy that wants beautiful lawn stripes, so I
usually mow by cutting the perimeter clockwise, then working my way
inward, always straddling the boundary between "that's cut" and
"that's not cut." Seems that a self propelled mower should be able to
do most of that on its own, if it could reliably tell the difference
between "cut" and "not yet cut." The "steering" logic seems pretty
simple, based on separate drives for the left wheel and right wheel
(or perhaps, left and right "tank tracks" to handle lawn lumps and
holes).
But I haven't been able to dream up a sensor system, especially
because in dry times, there will be patches that are very non-uniform
height. (My lawn is a diverse ecosystem, the farthest thing from a
putting green.) Machine vision could probably do it, but that's very
complex.
I bricked in my front yard at a house I owned. Very happy with that over
the years, and no mowing.
On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 21:45:41 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 22:48:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Again, I'd love an electric mower, but I'm not aware of one with
sufficient run time to do this lawn. Also, I've read some complaints
that the (rather expensive) batteries last only a few years (like 3
years in some cases) before needing replacement.
Battery life is a complex problem. For LiIon, the more energy (in
joules or watt-hrs) you drain out of or charge into a battery, the
faster it deteriorates. You can make a mower where the battery lasts
many years, but you'll need to stop draining the batter at about 25%
SoC (state of charge) as well as stop charging at about 85% of full
charge level (about 4.1VDC with no load). You'll also need to charge
slower than what the battery is capable of handling and use a motor
that uses far less power (watts) than what the battery is capable of
delivering.
Currently (pun intended), battery powered tools are designed to
operate at just below the point where something will fail, usually the
battery. With LiIon, both over and under voltage will kill the
battery. Fast charging and fast discharging will accelerate
deterioration. When larger numbers on the spec sheet sells more
mowers, then manufacturers will do what is needed to produce those
large numbers, even if it prematurely kills the battery. If they
produce a mower or tool that lacks power, takes forever to charge, and
requires a physically large battery, the typical consumer won't buy
it, even if it promises a battery that lasts forever.
There's also the matter of not providing features that will extend
battery life but are missing in order to provide a low selling price.
What is needed is something like what can be found in RV batteries.
For example (in order of importance):
- LiFePO4 instead of LiIon
- BMS to equalize the voltage of each cell in the battery.
- MPPT charging (usually external).
- BMS for over and under voltage protection.
- BMS with overcharge protection.
- BlueTooth wireless for battery on/off, telemetry, SoC, etc.
- Modular construction to aid in rebuilding battery.
Electric mowers and tools might have a few of these features, but I've
never seen one that has all of them. LiFePO4 and a BMS that equalizes
the cell voltages are probably the most important for best battery
life. I've only seen a few LiFePO4 tools. None of my DeWalt tools
have a BMS with cell equalization.
Why all this worry about electric mowers? Get a liquid fuel mower and
build a proper exhaust system so it's quit :-)
On 4/16/2025 5:28 AM, John B. wrote:
Why all this worry about electric mowers? Get a liquid
fuel mower and
build a proper exhaust system so it's quit :-)
Long ago in some engineering forum one guy described
modifying his mower's exhaust system, mostly by adapting a
far larger muffler. But the engine exhaust is only part of
the noise from a typical mower. Much of the noise is
generated aerodynamically by the 21" or 22" blade whirling
around in a sort of echo chamber beneath the engine.
Many electric mowers use much smaller blades, eliminating
most of that noise. Mammotion's mowers https://
us.mammotion.com/ use discs that carry little razor blades
on their periphery.
On 4/15/2025 5:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 17:22:57 -0400, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
I remember the last time I used a corded hedge trimmer. Worked great.
Went through that cord like buttah.
Obviously, you didn't read the 20 page warnings and repudiations of
responsibility usually included with a hedge trimmer.
If you insist on not reading the documentation, I suggest you tie a
knot in the power cable about 6 ft from the hedge trimmer handle.
Attach a small weight (1 or 2 lbs) to knot. When using the hedge
trimmer, the weight will cause the cable to hang downward and away
from the blades.
Sure, let's add more weight to a to a motorized cutting object a senior >citizen has to repeatedly lift over their head for an hour in the hot
sun. Brilliant......
If your habit of cutting the power cable seems to be incurable, I
suggest that you build some 6 ft sacrificial extension cables with
removable plugs and receptacles. When trimming, attach one of these
cables to the hedge trimmer end of your long power cable. After you
(again) cut through the power cable, just unplug the 6 ft section,
replace it with a new 6 ft section, and continue trimming. Later,
remove the plug and receptacle and use them for making additional
sacrificial 6 ft extension cables.
Hacks abound. Thank you for that suggestion, but what happens when you
hack through the cord beyond the 'sacrificial' section?
Suggestion - fix the cord, realize that building 'sacrificial' sections
was a colossal waste of time, tell yourself you'll be more cognizant
next time.
Why all this worry about electric mowers?
Get a liquid fuel mower and
build a proper exhaust system so it's quit :-)
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 16:28:37 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Why all this worry about electric mowers?
Because the new and improved technology might save us from global
warming. At least that's the official theory.
Get a liquid fuel mower and
build a proper exhaust system so it's quit :-)
Well, if you're not happy with gas or electric, perhaps renting a
tethered goat to mow the lawn might be better. Goats are
environmentally correct and fertilizes the lawn.
"Using Goats as Lawn Mowers"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMJEuAgJ-sU> (1:52)
"Can A GOAT Replace Your LAWNMOWER?" ><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKzn8Ho9UgY> (4:46)
"From 1999: Goats as lawn mowers" ><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HA7cqsh3YQ> (7:10)
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 16:28:37 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>Or, more in line with this forum: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/428756827016267953/
wrote:
Why all this worry about electric mowers?
Because the new and improved technology might save us from global
warming. At least that's the official theory.
Get a liquid fuel mower and
build a proper exhaust system so it's quit :-)
Well, if you're not happy with gas or electric, perhaps renting a
tethered goat to mow the lawn might be better. Goats are
environmentally correct and fertilizes the lawn.
"Using Goats as Lawn Mowers"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMJEuAgJ-sU> (1:52)
"Can A GOAT Replace Your LAWNMOWER?" <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKzn8Ho9UgY> (4:46)
"From 1999: Goats as lawn mowers" <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HA7cqsh3YQ> (7:10)
On 4/16/2025 12:24 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 16:28:37 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Why all this worry about electric mowers?
Because the new and improved technology might save us from global
warming. At least that's the official theory.
Get a liquid fuel mower and
build a proper exhaust system so it's quit :-)
Well, if you're not happy with gas or electric, perhaps renting a
tethered goat to mow the lawn might be better. Goats are
environmentally correct and fertilizes the lawn.
"Using Goats as Lawn Mowers"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMJEuAgJ-sU> (1:52)
"Can A GOAT Replace Your LAWNMOWER?"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKzn8Ho9UgY> (4:46)
"From 1999: Goats as lawn mowers"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HA7cqsh3YQ> (7:10)
Our backyard and those of our neighbors to the north and south
collectively look like a good sized park. I've jokingly proposed we chip
in and buy sheep, because as I understand it, sheep were among the
reasons for the British "velvet greensward" that our lawns are supposed
to mimic.
Bit I've been assured many times that caring for sheep is a lot more
work than mowing a lawn.
On 4/16/2025 12:24 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 16:28:37 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Why all this worry about electric mowers?
Because the new and improved technology might save us from global
warming. At least that's the official theory.
Get a liquid fuel mower and
build a proper exhaust system so it's quit :-)
Well, if you're not happy with gas or electric, perhaps renting a
tethered goat to mow the lawn might be better. Goats are
environmentally correct and fertilizes the lawn.
"Using Goats as Lawn Mowers"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMJEuAgJ-sU> (1:52)
"Can A GOAT Replace Your LAWNMOWER?"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKzn8Ho9UgY> (4:46)
"From 1999: Goats as lawn mowers"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HA7cqsh3YQ> (7:10)
Or, more in line with this forum: >https://www.pinterest.com/pin/428756827016267953/
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 14:35:28 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 4/16/2025 12:24 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 16:28:37 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Why all this worry about electric mowers?
Because the new and improved technology might save us from global
warming. At least that's the official theory.
Get a liquid fuel mower and
build a proper exhaust system so it's quit :-)
Well, if you're not happy with gas or electric, perhaps renting a
tethered goat to mow the lawn might be better. Goats are
environmentally correct and fertilizes the lawn.
"Using Goats as Lawn Mowers"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMJEuAgJ-sU> (1:52)
"Can A GOAT Replace Your LAWNMOWER?"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKzn8Ho9UgY> (4:46)
"From 1999: Goats as lawn mowers"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HA7cqsh3YQ> (7:10)
Or, more in line with this forum:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/428756827016267953/
Nice. I spent an hour browsing the photos. Most are very creative
and interesting. Very few might work as a usable lawn mower.
The problem problem with the human powered bicycle lawn mower is the
lack of power. The typical small pusher type motorized lawn mower
uses a 2 to 5 horsepower engine. 1 watt = 0.00134102 mechanical
horsepower. A rather mediocre cyclist can produce about 150 watts
without much difficulty. Therefore, this cyclist can produce:
150 * 0.00134 = 0.2 hp
That's not enough to produce the same HP as even the smallest lawn
mower engine.
I once tried a bicycle to lawnmower conversion. There was far too
much friction for me to ride it effectively. I rode on a not very
flat lawn for about 100ft and gave up.
On 4/16/2025 5:07 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 4/15/2025 5:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:Or, likely just as effective, go back in time and tell yourself to be
If your habit of cutting the power cable seems to be incurable, IHacks abound. Thank you for that suggestion, but what happens when
suggest that you build some 6 ft sacrificial extension cables with
removable plugs and receptacles. When trimming, attach one of these
cables to the hedge trimmer end of your long power cable. After you
(again) cut through the power cable, just unplug the 6 ft section,
replace it with a new 6 ft section, and continue trimming. Later,
remove the plug and receptacle and use them for making additional
sacrificial 6 ft extension cables.
you hack through the cord beyond the 'sacrificial' section?
Suggestion - fix the cord, realize that building 'sacrificial'
sections was a colossal waste of time, tell yourself you'll be more
cognizant next time.
more cognizant last time!
I think Jeff's suggestion would be sensible for anyone who has ever
cut through a cord that way. I suspect that if it happened once, it's
likely to happen again.
As a retro grouch, my hedge clippers use no electricity. :-)
On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 17:22:57 -0400, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
I remember the last time I used a corded hedge trimmer. Worked great.
Went through that cord like buttah.
Obviously, you didn't read the 20 page warnings and repudiations of responsibility usually included with a hedge trimmer.
If you insist on not reading the documentation, I suggest you tie a
knot in the power cable about 6 ft from the hedge trimmer handle.
Attach a small weight (1 or 2 lbs) to knot. When using the hedge
trimmer, the weight will cause the cable to hang downward and away
from the blades.
If your habit of cutting the power cable seems to be incurable, I
suggest that you build some 6 ft sacrificial extension cables with
removable plugs and receptacles. When trimming, attach one of these
cables to the hedge trimmer end of your long power cable. After you
(again) cut through the power cable, just unplug the 6 ft section,
replace it with a new 6 ft section, and continue trimming. Later,
remove the plug and receptacle and use them for making additional
sacrificial 6 ft extension cables.
On 4/15/2025 2:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 13:29:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 4/15/2025 8:39 AM, AMuzi wrote:Perhaps a robot lawn mower that goes around the trees?
On 4/14/2025 9:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
I'm not an expert but there were or are corded electrics as I knew
someone who loved his. Assuming your house is roughly centered on the
lot a 100ft cord would do.
I know those exist, but there's no way it would work. I just counted,
and there are at least 13 "islands" of landscaping, large trees or other >>> obstacles I have to cut around. They'd require far too much
backtracking, etc. if I were dragging a cord.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=robotic%20lawn%20mower&udm=2>
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=robot%20lawn%20mower>
I've been paying attention to the development of those for
years. There are now a couple models that don't require the buried
wire barrier systems (like Invisible Fences for dogs), but use some
local electronics that enhance GPS for precise location. Supposedly
one can manually steer the mower around the lot and "teach" it where
to mow and what to avoid. They're quite pricey, though! I've got about
25,000 square feet to mow, and the Luba brand capable of that is about
$3000. That would get me a lot of teenager hours, if I can recruit a
new one. Also, its level of technology makes me worry about long term reliability.
I had a thought about a simpler alternative that would require far
less technology. I'm not a guy that wants beautiful lawn stripes, so I usually mow by cutting the perimeter clockwise, then working my way
inward, always straddling the boundary between "that's cut" and
"that's not cut." Seems that a self propelled mower should be able to
do most of that on its own, if it could reliably tell the difference
between "cut" and "not yet cut." The "steering" logic seems pretty
simple, based on separate drives for the left wheel and right wheel
(or perhaps, left and right "tank tracks" to handle lawn lumps and
holes).
But I haven't been able to dream up a sensor system, especially
because in dry times, there will be patches that are very non-uniform
height. (My lawn is a diverse ecosystem, the farthest thing from a
putting green.) Machine vision could probably do it, but that's very
complex.
On 4/16/2025 5:28 AM, John B. wrote:
Why all this worry about electric mowers? Get a liquid fuel mower and
build a proper exhaust system so it's quit :-)
Long ago in some engineering forum one guy described modifying his
mower's exhaust system, mostly by adapting a far larger muffler. But
the engine exhaust is only part of the noise from a typical
mower. Much of the noise is generated aerodynamically by the 21" or
22" blade whirling around in a sort of echo chamber beneath the
engine.
Many electric mowers use much smaller blades, eliminating most of that
noise. Mammotion's mowers https://us.mammotion.com/ use discs that
carry little razor blades on their periphery.
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 16:28:37 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Why all this worry about electric mowers?
Because the new and improved technology might save us from global
warming. At least that's the official theory.
Get a liquid fuel mower and
build a proper exhaust system so it's quit :-)
Well, if you're not happy with gas or electric, perhaps renting a
tethered goat to mow the lawn might be better. Goats are
environmentally correct and fertilizes the lawn.
"Using Goats as Lawn Mowers"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMJEuAgJ-sU> (1:52)
"Can A GOAT Replace Your LAWNMOWER?" <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKzn8Ho9UgY> (4:46)
"From 1999: Goats as lawn mowers" <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HA7cqsh3YQ> (7:10)
Since I just can't stand small engine noise I never owned a
powered mower. When I did mow, I had a regular pusher
(vintage, $10 in 1977; only needed lubrication & sharpening)
Oh, I see the going rate is lower even after inflation!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-1950s-toro-sportsman-lawnmower-push-walk-behind-still-cuts-rusted-/271066110061
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 14:54:07 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Since I just can't stand small engine noise I never owned a
powered mower. When I did mow, I had a regular pusher
(vintage, $10 in 1977; only needed lubrication & sharpening)
Oh, I see the going rate is lower even after inflation!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-1950s-toro-sportsman-lawnmower-push-walk-behind-still-cuts-rusted-/271066110061
Look again please. The above eBay link you posted does not work for
me. However, I was able to find a similar vintage Toro lawnmower. <https://www.ebay.com/itm/116530603540>
Such mowers are sometimes collectors items and sell for rather
astronomical prices. This one is $900. My guess(tm) is what you
found was actually a printed advertisement. Something like these: <https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=1950%20vintage%20toro%20vintage%20mower>
On 4/17/2025 9:29 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 14:54:07 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Since I just can't stand small engine noise I never owned a
powered mower. When I did mow, I had a regular pusher
(vintage, $10 in 1977; only needed lubrication & sharpening)
Oh, I see the going rate is lower even after inflation!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-1950s-toro-sportsman-lawnmower-push-walk-behind-still-cuts-rusted-/271066110061
Look again please. The above eBay link you posted does not work for
me. However, I was able to find a similar vintage Toro lawnmower.
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/116530603540>
I kinda hate to say this, but the link worked for me!
Oddly, the first time it didn't. When I tried again it worked. $5.00,
sale ended.
Here's a link to the image in the ad: >https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/as8AAOxyo-9Q1pSq/s-l1600.jpg
On 4/17/2025 8:29 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 14:54:07 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Since I just can't stand small engine noise I never owned a
powered mower. When I did mow, I had a regular pusher
(vintage, $10 in 1977; only needed lubrication & sharpening)
Oh, I see the going rate is lower even after inflation!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-1950s-toro-sportsman-lawnmower-push-walk-behind-still-cuts-rusted-/271066110061
Look again please. The above eBay link you posted does not work for
me. However, I was able to find a similar vintage Toro lawnmower.
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/116530603540>
Such mowers are sometimes collectors items and sell for rather
astronomical prices. This one is $900. My guess(tm) is what you
found was actually a printed advertisement. Something like these:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=1950%20vintage%20toro%20vintage%20mower>
Came up first in a search and displays for me, $5 plus freight.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-1950s-toro-sportsman-lawnmower-push-walk-behind-still-cuts-rusted-/271066110061
Are there expensive lawn mowers? Oh, yes there are!
https://www.deere.com/en/mowers/zero-turn-mowers/z700-series/z760r-ztrak-mower/
The guy across the street from my shop uses a municipal
parks model (he knows a guy...) like that on his lawn.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 21:47:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 4/17/2025 9:29 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 14:54:07 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Since I just can't stand small engine noise I never owned a
powered mower. When I did mow, I had a regular pusher
(vintage, $10 in 1977; only needed lubrication & sharpening)
Oh, I see the going rate is lower even after inflation!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-1950s-toro-sportsman-lawnmower-push-walk-behind-still-cuts-rusted-/271066110061
Look again please. The above eBay link you posted does not work for
me. However, I was able to find a similar vintage Toro lawnmower.
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/116530603540>
I kinda hate to say this, but the link worked for me!
It now works for me. I tried it several times. The link went to
ebay, but ebay said the item could not be found. I have no idea what
went wrong.
Oddly, the first time it didn't. When I tried again it worked. $5.00,
sale ended.
The item wasn't sold. The listing ended on:
"Ended: Sep 29, 2012 13:41:54 PDT"
Also, notice the listing says:
"Local pickup only from Saint Louis, Missouri, United States 63128"
Local pickup really means that the seller doesn't want to disassemble
and pack the lawn mower. The price of shipping could easily approach
$100.
Here's a link to the image in the ad:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/as8AAOxyo-9Q1pSq/s-l1600.jpg
The link describes the mower as a "push - walk behind" mower. That's
NOT a walk behind mower, but rather a "pusher reel" or just "reel"
mower like these:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=reel%20mower&udm=2>
This is a "walk behind lawnmower": <https://www.google.com/search?q=walk%20behind%20mower&udm=2>
On 4/17/2025 8:34 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> writes:
On 4/15/2025 2:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Perhaps a robot lawn mower that goes around the trees?
Get some sheep, for crying out loud. I understand it's sometimes
possible to rent them...
It's going to be much, much easier to "rent" a teenager. I don't know of
an available one at the moment, but they're much more common than sheep.
And again, I've been told I certainly don't want to own sheep. They're
far more work than mowing.
On today's ride I passed a guy using a riding mower in a subdivision, on
a lot that had to be less than 1/4 acre. I've been told that some people actively enjoy using riding mowers, even on tiny lots. Seems odd to me.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 22:19:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On today's ride I passed a guy using a riding mower in a
subdivision, on a lot that had to be less than 1/4 acre. I've
been told that some people actively enjoy using riding mowers,
even on tiny lots. Seems odd to me.
I wasn't thrilled when using a riding mower, particularly when
I turned the wheel as far as it would go and the mower kept
bounding straight ahead. But I didn't mind mowing; it needed
doing and I did it. Could have used a back on the seat so that
I didn't have to pull on the steering wheel while pushing on
the pedals.
It was tedious on one strip of the back point four nine...
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