On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 09:13:10 -0700, pyotr filipivich wrote:
SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> on Wed, 21 Aug 2019 00:19:58 +1000 typed
in alt.history.what-if the following:
I have often wondered if I was magically teleported 2500 years back and was >>>in either the academy of Athens or Jerusalem and tried to answer their >>>questions on science would I be faced with a similar situation?
Would you understand the questions? Remember, in 500 BC, you are
at least two paradigm shifts back from the twentieth century. SO
many concepts we accept, still have to have their foundations worked
out.
Yeah, I have been thinking a lot about this. These guys were super smart
but as you say they are at least paradigm shifts back from the twentieth >century, they have not yet gone through Aristotle, Newton and Einstein,
much less do they have the mathematics required.
But let us go and make an experiment to show them basic science laws. Now >when I was in high school, the teacher to show us the law of conservation
of mass, made us weigh some chemicals, cook them up and then weigh the >result. According to the law of conservation of mass, the final result
should be identical. I do not think out of 30 kids, any got that result.
Some got more and some got less. If you did this with the wise men in these >academies what would they say?
Now if you tried to recreate Galileo leaning tower of Pisa experiment,
which many doubt he did, I doubt you would get the balls falling together
as Galileo theory is true only in a vacuum.
If you do the experiment what you will see is that there is a slight >difference in the time the two balls struck the ground, because of air >resistance the heavier one will fall slightly faster. Not only that but >because of the tendency for people to drop the light one slightly fast,
what an observer would see is the light one goes faster and the heavier one >overtakes the light one and hits the ground first.
Now let us say you decided to explain to them basic hygiene. There is an >interesting case of this Jewish doctor who first professionally proposed
and implemented in charge of the maternity wing of a hospital he was in >charge of. Using it he saved thousands of women and kids from dying during >labour and it quickly became apparent that this theory was working.
He tried to convince his fellow doctors who I am sure were very smart
people. He failed to do so. Soon he lost his job, went crazy and ended out
in an asylum.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/01/12/375663920/the-doctor-who-championed-hand-washing-and-saved-women-s-lives
Does anyone have any thoughts about any of this?
I've been trying to work out how to do astronomy without a
telescope, or a clock.
I agree with you. But since there was no way to show anyone the direct connection between hygiene and death, there is no way a rational person
would assume such a connection. Imagine a human from the future
arriving here and trying to explain that cancer can be cured by stuffing cauliflower into your ears and shoving a carrot where, as they say, the
sun don't shine. Repeat daily for a month and you will be cured.
I have often wondered if I was magically teleported 2500 years back and was >in either the academy of Athens or Jerusalem and tried to answer their >questions on science would I be faced with a similar situation?
Would you understand the questions? Remember, in 500 BC, you are
at least two paradigm shifts back from the twentieth century. SO
many concepts we accept, still have to have their foundations worked
out.
SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> on Sat, 24 Aug 2019 18:33:14 +1000 typed
in alt.history.what-if the following:
On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 09:13:10 -0700, pyotr filipivich wrote:
SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> on Wed, 21 Aug 2019 00:19:58 +1000 typed
in alt.history.what-if the following:
I have often wondered if I was magically teleported 2500 years back and was >>>>in either the academy of Athens or Jerusalem and tried to answer their >>>>questions on science would I be faced with a similar situation?
Would you understand the questions? Remember, in 500 BC, you are
at least two paradigm shifts back from the twentieth century. SO
many concepts we accept, still have to have their foundations worked
out.
Yeah, I have been thinking a lot about this. These guys were super smart >>but as you say they are at least paradigm shifts back from the twentieth >>century, they have not yet gone through Aristotle, Newton and Einstein, >>much less do they have the mathematics required.
But let us go and make an experiment to show them basic science laws. Now >>when I was in high school, the teacher to show us the law of conservation >>of mass, made us weigh some chemicals, cook them up and then weigh the >>result. According to the law of conservation of mass, the final result >>should be identical. I do not think out of 30 kids, any got that result. >>Some got more and some got less. If you did this with the wise men in these >>academies what would they say?
Now if you tried to recreate Galileo leaning tower of Pisa experiment, >>which many doubt he did, I doubt you would get the balls falling together >>as Galileo theory is true only in a vacuum.
If you do the experiment what you will see is that there is a slight >>difference in the time the two balls struck the ground, because of air >>resistance the heavier one will fall slightly faster. Not only that but >>because of the tendency for people to drop the light one slightly fast, >>what an observer would see is the light one goes faster and the heavier one >>overtakes the light one and hits the ground first.
Now let us say you decided to explain to them basic hygiene. There is an >>interesting case of this Jewish doctor who first professionally proposed >>and implemented in charge of the maternity wing of a hospital he was in >>charge of. Using it he saved thousands of women and kids from dying during >>labour and it quickly became apparent that this theory was working.
He tried to convince his fellow doctors who I am sure were very smart >>people. He failed to do so. Soon he lost his job, went crazy and ended out >>in an asylum.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/01/12/375663920/the-doctor-who-championed-hand-washing-and-saved-women-s-lives
Does anyone have any thoughts about any of this?
Coming back to this, I think a major problem our time traveling
science geek will have is trying to figure out what the locals are
thinking. I.e. it is in the nature of rocks (and water) to seek a
lower level. Which explains so much, right? And think about it, if
you take a bowling ball up on the Tower of Pisa and let go, the ball,
no longer supported "seeks the lower level". It does not consult with
a reference book to figure out what to do next.
I've been trying to work out how to do astronomy
without a
telescope,
or a clock.
How to do "arithmetic" without positional notation.
On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 12:13:26 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:Greek science and philosophy... talk about mal paso. There were many Jews who embraced Greek culture at the time, though, but they lost the fight.
I have often wondered if I was magically teleported 2500 years back and was >> >in either the academy of Athens or Jerusalem and tried to answer their
questions on science would I be faced with a similar situation?
Would you understand the questions? Remember, in 500 BC, you are
at least two paradigm shifts back from the twentieth century. SO
many concepts we accept, still have to have their foundations worked
out.
You certainly would understand the question if you understood Attic Greek. We can understand their writings almost perfectly, once familiar with the immense Greek vocabulary.
Greek culture is the DNA of Western Civilization, in good part because Christianity loved Aristotle.
Leave Jerusalem out, though, not a science place. Remember that later on, in the second century B.C., the Hasmonean Dynasty REJECTED all things Greek. A fact still celebrated today with a holiday. Imagine, celebrating choosing religious dogma over
On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 11:23:23 AM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
I've been trying to work out how to do astronomy without a
telescope, or a clock.
Why? Telescopes are cheaper than ever.
Astronomers look at computer screens today, not so much directly through a telescope.
How to do "arithmetic" without positional notation.
That is another problem we are used to arithmetic and algebra.
They used abacus and graphical notation with a ruler and a compass and were not
impressed with algebra. It is like you would have to translate it into >another language.
Then I am curious how to explain relativity graphically.
Sorry about the delay, I'm supposedly packing to move in 7 days.
SolomonW <Solo...@citi.com> on Sun, 1 Aug 2021 18:46:30 +1000 typed
in alt.history.what-if the following:>
How to do "arithmetic" without positional notation.
That is another problem we are used to arithmetic and algebra.As I have observed, that we have Arabic numerals and positional
notation so ingrained in our thinking, that we don't really understand
that "hours" "days" and "minutes" were integers, that fractions were
ratios of whole numbers, that splitting something into two pieces
produced two "sixes" so called because they were six of the 'standard'
twelve parts used to divide things (which is why the foot is divided
into twelve "inches", and the pound into twelve "ounces".) Etc, etc,
etc.
They used abacus and graphical notation with a ruler and a compass and were notThe Romans had a "weird" notation (using I, V, L and the rest, for
impressed with algebra. It is like you would have to translate it into >another language.
specific amounts.). I am not certain, but I think the Greeks must
have used more letters to denote each number A, B. G, D (etc)> know
that Slavonic used the first set of letters for values 1 to 9, another
set for values 10 to 90, and the third for 100 to 900 (so that 'ria'
would be 'one hundred and eleven').
Then I am curious how to explain relativity graphically.uhhhh, I'm not sure I could do that in 'modern' math.
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"
Sorry about the delay, I'm supposedly packing to move in 7 days.
SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> on Sun, 1 Aug 2021 18:46:30 +1000 typed
in alt.history.what-if the following:>
How to do "arithmetic" without positional notation.
That is another problem we are used to arithmetic and algebra.
As I have observed, that we have Arabic numerals and positional notation so ingrained in our thinking, that we don't really understand
that "hours" "days" and "minutes" were integers, that fractions were
ratios of whole numbers, that splitting something into two pieces
produced two "sixes" so called because they were six of the 'standard'
twelve parts used to divide things (which is why the foot is divided
into twelve "inches", and the pound into twelve "ounces".) Etc, etc,
etc.
They used abacus and graphical notation with a ruler and a compass and were not
impressed with algebra. It is like you would have to translate it into >>another language.
The Romans had a "weird" notation (using I, V, L and the rest, for specific amounts.).
I am not certain, but I think the Greeks must
have used more letters to denote each number A, B. G, D (etc)> know
that Slavonic used the first set of letters for values 1 to 9, another
set for values 10 to 90, and the third for 100 to 900 (so that 'ria'
would be 'one hundred and eleven').
Then I am curious how to explain relativity graphically.
uhhhh, I'm not sure I could do that in 'modern' math.
On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 10:46:54 PM UTC+1, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Sorry about the delay, I'm supposedly packing to move in 7 days.
SolomonW <Solo...@citi.com> on Sun, 1 Aug 2021 18:46:30 +1000 typed
in alt.history.what-if the following:>
As I have observed, that we have Arabic numerals and positionalHow to do "arithmetic" without positional notation.
That is another problem we are used to arithmetic and algebra.
notation so ingrained in our thinking, that we don't really understand
that "hours" "days" and "minutes" were integers, that fractions were
ratios of whole numbers, that splitting something into two pieces
produced two "sixes" so called because they were six of the 'standard'
twelve parts used to divide things (which is why the foot is divided
into twelve "inches", and the pound into twelve "ounces".) Etc, etc,
etc.
They used abacus and graphical notation with a ruler and a compass and were notThe Romans had a "weird" notation (using I, V, L and the rest, for
impressed with algebra. It is like you would have to translate it into
another language.
specific amounts.). I am not certain, but I think the Greeks must
have used more letters to denote each number A, B. G, D (etc)> know
that Slavonic used the first set of letters for values 1 to 9, another
set for values 10 to 90, and the third for 100 to 900 (so that 'ria'
would be 'one hundred and eleven').
uhhhh, I'm not sure I could do that in 'modern' math.
Then I am curious how to explain relativity graphically.
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"
1 lb = 12 oz?
On Wed, 1 Sep 2021 00:33:24 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman <alansp...@googlemail.com> wrote:<a href="https://www.irfaniindonesia.com/2021/08/humanity-above-religion.html">v</a><a href="https://www.irfaniindonesia.com/2021/08/Interaksi-Sosial.html">e</a><a href="https://www.irfaniindonesia.com/2021/08/rukun-islam.html">r</a><a href="https://www.
On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 10:46:54 PM UTC+1, pyotr filipivich wrote: >> Sorry about the delay, I'm supposedly packing to move in 7 days.
SolomonW <Solo...@citi.com> on Sun, 1 Aug 2021 18:46:30 +1000 typed
in alt.history.what-if the following:>
As I have observed, that we have Arabic numerals and positionalHow to do "arithmetic" without positional notation.
That is another problem we are used to arithmetic and algebra.
notation so ingrained in our thinking, that we don't really understand
that "hours" "days" and "minutes" were integers, that fractions were
ratios of whole numbers, that splitting something into two pieces
produced two "sixes" so called because they were six of the 'standard'
twelve parts used to divide things (which is why the foot is divided
into twelve "inches", and the pound into twelve "ounces".) Etc, etc,
etc.
They used abacus and graphical notation with a ruler and a compass and were notThe Romans had a "weird" notation (using I, V, L and the rest, for
impressed with algebra. It is like you would have to translate it into >> >another language.
specific amounts.). I am not certain, but I think the Greeks must
have used more letters to denote each number A, B. G, D (etc)> know
that Slavonic used the first set of letters for values 1 to 9, another
set for values 10 to 90, and the third for 100 to 900 (so that 'ria'
would be 'one hundred and eleven').
uhhhh, I'm not sure I could do that in 'modern' math.
Then I am curious how to explain relativity graphically.
--
pyotr filipivich
"History rarely repeats herself" is the cliche. In reality she just
lets fly with a frying pan yelling "Why weren't you listening the first time!?"
1 lb = 12 oz?My old butcher used to be a bit like that.
--
Regards,
Eric Stevens
<a href="https://www.irfaniindonesia.com/2021/09/Agama-Yang-Diakui-Di-Indonesia-Menurut-Undang-Undang.html">o</a><a href="https://www.irfaniindonesia.com/2021/09/Puasa-Yang-Disunnahkan-Pada-Tanggal-10-Muharram-Disebut-Dengan-Puasa.html">n</a><a href="https://www.irfaniindonesia.com/2021/09/Apa-Itu-Bulan-Rajab.html">t</a><a href="https://www.irfaniindonesia.com/2021/09/bulan-syaban-adalah.html">e</a><a href="https://www.irfaniindonesia.com/2021/09/10-kultum-tentang-keutamaan-bulan.html">n</a><a href="
SolomonW <Solo...@citi.com> wrote:
zuma a bahrain dayNow if you tried to recreate Galileo leaning tower of Pisa experiment, which many doubt he did, I doubt you would get the balls falling together as Galileo theory is true only in a vacuum.
If you do the experiment what you will see is that there is a slight difference in the time the two balls struck the ground, because of air resistance the heavier one will fall slightly faster.But it would be very clear that the time of fall does
not vary in proportion to the weight of the ball. If
one dropped 1 1b and 10 1b balls, the fall times would
not differ by 10-1 or indeed very much at all.
Not only that but because of the tendency for peopleIt would be trivial to set up a procedure that dropped
to drop the light one slightly fast, what an
observer would see is the light one goes faster and
the heavier one overtakes the light one and hits the
ground first.
the two balls at the same time.
Now let us say you decided to explain to them basic hygiene. There is an interesting case of this Jewish doctor who first professionally proposed and implemented in charge of the maternity wing of a hospital...
Semmelweis was not Jewish.
--
Nous sommes dans une pot de chambre, et nous y serons emmerdés.
--- General Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot at Sedan, 1870.
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 6:16:54 PM UTC+5:30, Rich Rostrom wrote:
SolomonW <Solo...@citi.com> wrote:
https://maps.google.se/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.ru/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.ro/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.pt/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.pl/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.no/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.nl/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.it/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.hu/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.fr/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.fi/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.es/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.dk/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.de/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.cz/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.com/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.com.vn/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.com.ua/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.com.tw/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.com.tr/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.com.sg/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.com.ph/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.com.mx/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.com.hk/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.com.br/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.com.au/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.com.ar/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.co.za/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.co.uk/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.co.th/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.co.nz/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.co.jp/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.co.in/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.co.id/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.ch/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.ca/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.be/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.in https://maps.google.at/url?q=https://jummamubarak.irfani-islam.inNow if you tried to recreate Galileo leaning tower of Pisa experiment, which many doubt he did, I doubt you would get the balls falling together
as Galileo theory is true only in a vacuum.
If you do the experiment what you will see is that there is a slight difference in the time the two balls struck the ground, because of air resistance the heavier one will fall slightly faster.But it would be very clear that the time of fall does
not vary in proportion to the weight of the ball. If
one dropped 1 1b and 10 1b balls, the fall times would
not differ by 10-1 or indeed very much at all.
Not only that but because of the tendency for peopleIt would be trivial to set up a procedure that dropped
to drop the light one slightly fast, what an
observer would see is the light one goes faster and
the heavier one overtakes the light one and hits the
ground first.
the two balls at the same time.
Now let us say you decided to explain to them basic hygiene. There is an interesting case of this Jewish doctor who first professionally proposed and implemented in charge of the maternity wing of a hospital...
Semmelweis was not Jewish.zuma a bahrain day
--
Nous sommes dans une pot de chambre, et nous y serons emmerdés.
--- General Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot at Sedan, 1870.
Hadith: Rasulullah () said:
“The best day, on which the sun shines brightly, is the day of Juma, on this day Adam (AS) died, entered Paradise on this day, descended from Paradise (on the ground) on this day and the doom is also on the day of Juma. Will be there."
Muslim: Al Juma 854
Hadith: It is narrated from Abu Lubaba (R.A.), that the Prophet-e-Karim (ﷺ) said:
"The day of Juma is the chief of the days, it is a big day in the eyes of Allah.
And it is greater than Allah's near-Eid-Uz-Zuha and Eid-ul-Fitr, am I 5 things:
Have I found Adam (as) by Allah Ta'ala.
Have I Allah Ta'ala made Adam (as) come down to the ground?
Is the oppressed Adam (as.) fat (wafat) color.
Am I the 1st watch who is a man who asks Allah Ta'ala in the throne, he gives it to him until he sees the Haram thing.
Will there be a doomsday day, there will be no fair angel neither in the sky, nor in the earth, nor in the air, nor in the mountain nor in the river, but they are afraid of Juma.'
(Ibn Majah: Iqamatis Salah 1084) Imam Buseri called Hasan.
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